Armed Polite Society

Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: natedog on October 05, 2006, 01:20:06 PM

Title: Math.
Post by: natedog on October 05, 2006, 01:20:06 PM

What's the most advanced math class you've taken? I'm a senior in high school, and I'm taking pre-calculus right now and I'm actually struggling a bit. Last year I took AP Stats and aced it and got a 5 on the AP test. Yes, I know I took them out of order *bangs head*, and now I'm out of practice for normal algebraic math. What level of math should I be prepared to take once I'm in college for a chemistry or biology major?

Title: Math.
Post by: Marnoot on October 05, 2006, 01:34:03 PM

I took AP Calculus BC my senior year in high school. I took BC over AB specifically because in so doing, I wouldn't have to take any math in college (with my major). Doing a science major will probably require you to take at least a couple of calculus classes to get into the major.

I don't know how advanced they make you go though as I was an information systems management major, which required only the level of calculus that the AP class got me out of. I do wish I remembered how to do calculus beyond really simple derivations... not that I ever need to use it, but I really hate forgetting something when it took me months of hard work to learn.

Title: Math.
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 05, 2006, 01:54:13 PM

Particle Analysis (almost painful, but kinda interesting)
Diff Calc II (definitely painful, and totally uninteresting)
Astrophysics for Non-Astronomy Majors (taught by the head of the astrophysics department, and probably the single most misleading class title ever)

and...

Intro to Quantum Physics (which made me consider throwing myself in front of the nearest train on pretty much a daily basis).

Brad

Title: Math.
Post by: 280plus on October 05, 2006, 02:03:33 PM

"Discrete Mathematics" Learned to add, subtract, divide amd multiply sets, boolean algebra, probabilities and a bunch of other quite discrete forms of math. I got a "C" but only because I had perfect attendance and begged the prof to please, PLEASE just pass me!

Title: Math.
Post by: Guest on October 05, 2006, 04:03:52 PM

The Calculus will stimulate your brain...and make you mean and hateful in the wee hours of the morning.

I had a year in high school and 2 years in college. This was so long ago my first quarter professor at VA TECH still called it THE CALCULUS. I enjoyed most of the classes, but the 2 real losers were the instructors who were teaching to pay for their advanced engineering degrees..."As an engineer you will need to know..."

"Aw jeez, I'M A FREAKING PHYSICS MAJOR YOU IDIOT!!!"

This was the guy who taught a class of 27 and gave out 1 A, 2 B's, 2 C's, 2 D's and 20 F's. How dumb was he? I got a B.    

I really felt sorry for the construction management major who ended up in the class somehow.

John

Title: Math.
Post by: charby on October 05, 2006, 04:12:54 PM

The highest level I took was College Algebra and Trig.

In highschool I took AP Stats, hated the class.

I have had a lot of math in classes I have taken, especially physics.

I use a ton of math with my job, not sure that I do it correctly but I always coem out with the right answer. I am a computer support specialist at my current profession and some how I also got picked to be an electronics expert and use my math in configuring getting sustainable power to field equipment.

Its funny to argue to the math with the researcher who are stat people and I use math for physics to find the solution.

-C

Title: Math.
Post by: Antibubba on October 05, 2006, 04:25:20 PM

Hell, I gave up trying to balance my checkbook a decade ago.  I don't know how I even got out of college.

I read a condition called dyscalcia-dyslexia for numbers.  That's me right there.   I have no trouble wrapping my head around the concepts, oddly enough.

Title: Math.
Post by: cfabe on October 05, 2006, 04:34:56 PM

Well according to the course numbering system, the "highest" class I took was Probability and Statistics, but I found Differential Equations and Laplace Transforms much harder, though they consider it s 200 level. Also took Discrete Math, which is a 200 level Computer Science course. Of coruse also took Calc 1,2 and multivariate calc. Chem or Bio major, I don't think they do a whole lot of heavy duty math, only way to know for sure is to consult the program outline at your school.

Title: Math.
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 05, 2006, 04:51:55 PM

Geometry....I failed it.  Twice.

Title: Math.
Post by: wingnutx on October 05, 2006, 04:53:24 PM

I went as far as college algebra. I was pretty good at math, but it wasn't a priority.

Title: Math.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 05, 2006, 05:28:52 PM

4 semesters of calculus in college:

First semester callculus was derivatives - pretty eassy.  
Second semester was integrals - moderately hard.  
Third semester was multivariate calculus - easy.  
Fourth was differential equations - really effing hard.

I started to take a fifth semester, on vector field calculus.  I fled for my life partway through the semester.  

Title: Math.
Post by: DJJ on October 05, 2006, 05:57:59 PM

Differential equations. Didn't understand a thing. Found out halfway through the semester that the lazy dumbass teaching the class gave the same tests every semester. I rocketed from a 40% on the midterm to a 100% on the final. Here's example of how un-math-savvy the instructor was: He thought a 40% and a 100% averaged to an A!

I don't consider that cheating, either. I consider it capitalizing on the instructor's stupidity.

Title: Math.
Post by: Moondoggie on October 05, 2006, 05:58:06 PM

Math is my "Great White Whale".

I'm great at arithmetic.  Loved it through 6th grade.

Then came 7th grade.  Teacher started putting "X=" on the blackboard.  I thought to myself "WTF do letters have to do with numbers?"  That was it...lights out on math for the rest of my life.  Never got it.  Never cared.  I got hounded by a platoon of math teachers..."You can do better than this"  my response "I'm not going to run out and find a job figuring out what "X" is when I get out of here".

Thank goodness I was a business/history major.  I had to drop a Microeconomic Theory class because the professor demanded that I "show my work" on exams in trig...nevermind that I had the right answer.  There were only three variables...it wasn't rocket science to plot a curve on a graph.  Also nevermind that trig wasn't listed as a prereq in the course catalog.

Two trains leave the station.........yada, yada, yada.  Don't care.  If I'm there when train A catches/meets train B I'll know when it happens.  If I'm not there, it doesn't matter to me.

Fortunately, I have other talents.

Title: Math.
Post by: drewtam on October 05, 2006, 05:58:31 PM

Chem or Bio should really only need statistics and at most Calc 2. YMMV! Its all up to your university.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ (excellent reliable site, trustable content)

I had quite a bit of college math, I was in an engineering major that focused on theory and derivation:

-calc i differential, integrals
-calc ii more fun with integrals
-calc iii multivariable
-linear algebra
-differential equations
-partial differential equations (really out there)
-tensor, vector, field algebra and calculus
-Finite Element Analysis, which is really a linear algebra and programming class combined
-Intermediate Fluid Mechanics, alot of field calc, tensors, partial diffy q's, laplace tranforms, etc combined with programming and physically impossible to solve systems with current human understanding of math; plus a little chaos thoery thrown in for the fun of it.

I find that a thorough discussion of concept with someone knowledgable or with a group discussion of classmates helps to ease the math pains. Particularly the way that higher level calc and diffy q combines complex geometry with the algebra of calc.

I also found that it was very interesting to learn the concepts of how the math interacts but performing the practise problems and exercises was tedious and boring. But "No pain, No gain". Tedious but they do provide insight.

Many times, calculus and above can be explained several different ways with different points of view. So listen very carefully to different sources about how they explain. For example: The teacher, the textbook, and http://mathworld.wolfram.com/ (excellent reliable site) will all explain it differently. It all depends on you which explanation will "click" in your head. And the source that works can change from day to day and hour to hour, so review several times a week or day to really get it.

Drew

Title: Math.
Post by: Twycross on October 05, 2006, 08:00:05 PM

So far, one semester of college calculus. I did pretty well, but I still disliked it.

Title: Math.
Post by: Sawdust on October 06, 2006, 09:06:14 AM

As an engineering major way back when, my experience mirrors drewtam's list - except I had to do Finite Element Analysis by hand.

Sawdust

Title: Math.
Post by: Telperion on October 06, 2006, 10:09:07 AM

The most advanced course I ever attempted was modestly named "Algebra".  Of course, at the PhD level, algebra means something totally different than the stuff taught in middle/high school that shares the same name...  I had to drop the course and punt to Field Theory since the instructor was trying to shoo us undergrads out by assigning workloads that only grad students had the time to tackle.

For a chem or bio major, most likely you'll probably need to study calculus and differential equations, but little beyond that.  If you go into chemical engineering, you'll end up with a list similar to drewtam's.

Title: Math.
Post by: RGO on October 06, 2006, 10:09:09 AM

I have an EE degree with three minors, one of which is math.  I took Calculus 1-3, Diff Eq, Linear Algebra, and a number of out-there senior level maths in college.  Actually, the senior level classes were on-the-whole easier than the sophomore level classes.  (I found the same thing to be true with my EE classes - I think it's due to their efforts to weed some people out early.)

natedog, in biology or chemistry, you'll probably have to take math through Calculus 2.

Title: Math.
Post by: SpookyPistolero on October 06, 2006, 11:32:09 AM

I've gone through calc 2 in college and enjoyed almost all the math I've ever taken. The only one I hated was a senile old man that would work one individual problem per class. His exams would then be about 3 problems long, no partial credit, each question more absurd than the next.

Back to the point... I've got a BS in Biology and did a minor in chem and I don't feel you really need above calc 1. I can't recall how much work with logarithms we did in that class, but if not you'll need to take another class until you do.  Logs and differentials are what's valuable. Being able to look at a graph and extrapolate lots of info in a jiffy is key, which calc can help with a lot.

Do you know what you're wanting to go into with a bio/chem degree?

Title: Math.
Post by: jefnvk on October 06, 2006, 01:18:38 PM

My chem friends have three semesters of Calc, a half semester each of Linear Algebra and Differential Equations, and Statistics

Title: Math.
Post by: HankB on October 06, 2006, 02:19:23 PM

After a couple of semesters of calculus, the courses had deceptive titles like "Applied Mathematics I" and "Applied Mathematics II" . . . most people would recognize these as courses in transforms, differential equations, etc.

Unfortunately, they were taught by math professors who had NO CONCEPT of the application of these mathematical methods, and got upset when a student would actually ask in class what the application would be.

I remember watching one memorable exchange in which the professor was taken to task by a student (!) for being unable or unwilling to provide an example of an application, when the course was APPLIED MATHEMATICS. The professor went on about the beauty of proving a theorem, and the student said "Oh, so in other words it's just mental masturbation. Thank you SO much."

Title: Math.
Post by: drewtam on October 06, 2006, 08:21:23 PM

Quote from: Sawdust

As an engineering major way back when, my experience mirrors drewtam's list - except I had to do Finite Element Analysis by hand.

Sawdust

We still do it by hand. It really helps when you go to program it on a larger scale.

Quote from: SpookyPistolero

Do you know what you're wanting to go into with a bio/chem degree?

This is the most important question to answer. If you get into a serious science field and do not love it and love the goal to which you attain.

YOU. WILL. NOT. MAKE. IT.

You will quite and will have wasted precious years of life and lots of money. And no, drunken orgies are not a good use of time. It will be years of hard work; so I highly, highly, highly recommend spending a few years at Junior College level to sort what you really love to do. JC/CC is alot cheaper than any Uni.

Drew

Title: Math.
Post by: Silver Bullet on October 06, 2006, 08:53:02 PM

Quote from: Headless Thompson Gunner

4 semesters of calculus in college:

First semester callculus was derivatives - pretty eassy.  
Second semester was integrals - moderately hard.  
Third semester was multivariate calculus - easy.  
Fourth was differential equations - really effing hard.

I took these four courses, but my experience was just the opposite:  for me, the first class was the hardest, and each of the others was progressively easier.

My first semester included both derivatives and integrals, though.  My second semester included multiple integrals, and I seem to recall my third semester including dot and cross products.  Fourth semester was definitely differential equations.

The class I wish I had taken in addition to these is linear algebra.

Title: Math.
Post by: BakerMikeRomeo on October 06, 2006, 09:29:03 PM

Senior Year of High School: AP Calculus BC

1st Semester of College: Integral Calculus, Elementary Linear Algebra (solving systems of equations, manipulating matrices), Vector Calculus

2nd Semester: Multivariable Calculus (differentiation, integration, and vector calculus of > 1 variable), Intro to Differential Equations

3rd Semester: Intro to Diff Eq again, Intro to Proofs.

~GnSx

Title: Math.
Post by: 280plus on October 07, 2006, 12:26:18 AM

My head hurts just reading all that.

Title: Math.
Post by: natedog on October 08, 2006, 05:39:12 AM

I'm considering a biology or chemistry major because both subjects interest me (can't say the same for physics), and I have excelled in them at the high school level (top grade in the class for both). Also, don't you need to be in a science major to go into any of the medical professions?

Title: Math.
Post by: grislyatoms on October 08, 2006, 06:14:59 AM

Trigonometry was the last one I did well in, and was necessary to understanding AC waveforms. (My AAS degree is Electronics Engineering)

I did have some basic calculus, did fair to middlin'. Just give me the bleepin' formulas, I don't care how they were derived!

Couldn't "get into" calculus, but I loved trig. Boolean Algebra was a cakewalk, and I liked it.

It's funny, though, I haven't used an oscilloscope or a logic probe in years. "If error code is L152, replace circuit board X57" is the most I do now. A chimp could do it.

Title: Math.
Post by: SpookyPistolero on October 08, 2006, 02:29:16 PM

You don't necessarily need to be a science major for a medical profession, but you need a strong background in it. This means lots and lots of coursework which puts you pretty close to making a major out of it anyway. There are plenty of folks who go into medicine with business or math degrees, etc.  Some feel you can do a decent job of setting yourself apart from the pack by majoring in something more secular.

With those goals, if you can handle math and enjoy it, calc II is probably a good level to aim for. If you hate it or don't do well with it, I'd stick with calc I and call it a day.

Best of luck with all your classes-

Title: Math.
Post by: 280plus on October 09, 2006, 03:25:06 AM

I just went and did a search on Boolean Algebra. I still don't get that stuff although I think trying to not confuse the symbols for and/or is my first stumbling block. I should start back at Algebra I and see how far I can get up through all those different classes. Just for fun.

 My hat is off to all you math wizzes...

Title: Math.
Post by: DrAmazon on October 09, 2006, 04:43:51 PM

4 quarters of calculus.  Always wished I would have taken the diffeq.  Chem majors here take two semesters of calculus with the differential equations VERY recommended.  We find it makes the p-chem go down a bit easier.

Title: Math.
Post by: Art Eatman on October 09, 2006, 05:07:34 PM

I got as far as Diff. Eqns. in my BSME work.  Electives such as nuke physics and a year of power reactor design plus a year of metallurgy.  155 hours, total, for my degree.  

Never really used any of it in my working years.  The good part, though, is that it helped a helluva lot in understanding a lot of what goes on in the world.

The weird part of it all is that I transitioned into Civil Engineering, and learned how to design dams/spillways for reservoir projects, and very-large canals.  This segued into environmental stuff, brain-picking for four years on the bug-and-bunny PhDs.  That segued into political engineering, writing some legislation and working with the Texas Legislature.

Then I dropped out.  My conscience couldn't really cope with the Lege.

Art

Title: Math.
Post by: Silver Bullet on October 09, 2006, 06:00:46 PM

Quote

Never really used any of it in my working years.  The good part, though, is that it helped a helluva lot in understanding a lot of what goes on in the world.

It did a lot more than that.  You learned how to solve hard problems, or else you wouldn't have gotten through it.

Title: Math.
Post by: Art Eatman on October 11, 2006, 04:30:24 AM

"You learned how to solve hard problems..."

But isn'tthat what school is all about?  And any downgrading of the hardness of the problems:  Doesn't that cheat the student?  School can't be as difficult as life itseownself, after the school daze are over.

I instantly believed in the idea of "Train hard, fight easy" the first time I read that.  But in that sense, war is no  different from football or tennis or IPSC/IDPA or science or engineering.  Or learning a marketable skill.

Don't cheat the student.

Seems like we're doing that...

Art

Title: Math.
Post by: atek3 on October 11, 2006, 06:13:57 AM

HS: AP Calculus BC
College: Calculus, Multivariable Calc, Linear Algebra and Differential equations.  All garbage I'll never ever use again.

atek3