Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: 41magsnub on October 23, 2014, 09:41:22 AM
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Coworker told me I am dangerous on the highway. Here is the deal - I am putting ~650 highway miles per weekend on the Subaru during hunting season. In an attempt to keep my costs down I am doing 65MPH* on the 4 lane interstates. This keeps my whole trip average at around 31MPG. If I go the speed limit it drops to ~27MPG. At this speed I can stick the Subaru in 6th gear, set the cruise control, and let it roll the entire way. He thinks this is dangerous, I think it is fine and is saving me a few bucks.
*This is all on a stretch of highway with very light traffic at the times I am driving, it's not the business loop around Seattle or something. I will step on it as needed, for example I'm not the guy inching past a truck while there are 87 cars backed up behind me in the left lane. There is a 2 lane stretch between I-15 and I-90 that I roll with traffic on, going 70-75. If the traffic starts thickening up I speed up appropriately.
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Coworker told me I am dangerous on the highway. Here is the deal - I am putting ~650 highway miles per weekend on the Subaru during hunting season. In an attempt to keep my costs down I am doing 65MPH* on the 4 lane interstates. This keeps my whole trip average at around 31MPG. If I go the speed limit it drops to ~27MPG. At this speed I can stick the Subaru in 6th gear, set the cruise control, and let it roll the entire way. He thinks this is dangerous, I think it is fine and is saving me a few bucks.
*This is all on a stretch of highway with very light traffic at the times I am driving, it's not the business loop around Seattle or something. I will step on it as needed, for example I'm not the guy inching past a truck while there are 87 cars backed up behind me in the left lane. There is a 2 lane stretch between I-15 and I-90 that I roll with traffic on, going 70-75. If the traffic starts thickening up I speed up appropriately.
What's the speed limit on that stretch?
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75
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If you're speeding up when other cars are around, that's fine. If not, you create a situation where drivers behind you may make risky moves to get around you. 10 mph is a big speed differential.
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The only time it ever feels dangerous is when some guy rolling way over the speed limit passes me. The high speed differential is a bit unnerving. Frequently I catch up to that same person in a curvy section because they are fine with rolling at 90+ in the straights but then get chicken out and go 45 around the bends. Those are the people I worry about the most.
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On limited access highways, the big cause of crashes is not speed, but difference in speed between slow and fast folk. Something like 85% of drivers will cluster about a speed , posted limits or no, because that is where that 85% are in their comfort zone. Driving outside that zone, high OR low, increases the odds of an accident.
Now, I don't know if that makes you "dangerous," but the odds indicate "more dangerous than if 41magsnub ran with the herd."
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65 vs 75? Not a problem with me.
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I think that as long as you're staying in the far right hand lane when driving slower it should not be a problem. I see that occasionally on the stretches of interstate I travel where the speed limit is 75 mph.
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I don't worry as much about speed differentials on the open highway if it's uncrowded, especially at higher speeds. That is, as long as the person in front of me (if I'm going faster) allows me to pass. Easy enough on long stretches where you can see far enough in front to pass safely. Otherwise, if it's very curvy and passing is difficult/unsafe, if the person is going slow, them using a turnout is nice (given single lane and no passing lanes). Of course that doesn't do much for their gas mileage.
When I've been on interstate trips and hit some of the 80MPH highways, I actually find that speed to be higher than I like to drive. The areas where I've seen that though, have been multi-lane highways, so it's really easy for others to pass me.
Also, for kicks: high speed limits in the various states:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F9%2F90%2FUS_Speed_Limits_2014.svg%2F1268px-US_Speed_Limits_2014.svg.png&hash=9621415ca63ecd0b9c6be994cb4b6071f60961de)
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I don't worry as much about speed differentials on the open highway if it's uncrowded, especially at higher speeds. That is, as long as the person in front of me (if I'm going faster) allows me to pass. Easy enough on long stretches where you can see far enough in front to pass safely. Otherwise, if it's very curvy and passing is difficult/unsafe, if the person is going slow, them using a turnout is nice (given single lane and no passing lanes). Of course that doesn't do much for their gas mileage.
When I've been on interstate trips and hit some of the 80MPH highways, I actually find that speed to be higher than I like to drive. The areas where I've seen that though, have been multi-lane highways, so it's really easy for others to pass me.
Also, for kicks: high speed limits in the various states:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F9%2F90%2FUS_Speed_Limits_2014.svg%2F1268px-US_Speed_Limits_2014.svg.png&hash=9621415ca63ecd0b9c6be994cb4b6071f60961de)
Loves me that bit of TX-130 toll road that is 85MPH. Allows me to avoid Austin in speed and comfort.
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Intentionally creating a condition which impedes the general flow of traffic, especially on something asheaviky travelled as an interstate, is inherently unsafe. Either go with the flow or find roadways which support yourr self-imposed speed restriction.
FYI...
650 miles @ 31 mpg = 21.97 gallons
650 miles @ 27 mpg = 24.07 gallons
Congrats, you save a whopping twelve bucks, and in the process you place every other driver in peril. Just say no.
Brad
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Also, at that kind of distance, the 10 MPH difference adds up in total time. 75 would cut over an hour of time off the trip. For me, that is more important than 12 bucks. Plus, I am more comfortable going just above average speed than just below.
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The driving is in several blocks over the weekend so the hour of time doesn't really make much difference.
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On limited access highways, the big cause of crashes is not speed, but difference in speed between slow and fast folk. Something like 85% of drivers will cluster about a speed , posted limits or no, because that is where that 85% are in their comfort zone. Driving outside that zone, high OR low, increases the odds of an accident.
Now, I don't know if that makes you "dangerous," but the odds indicate "more dangerous than if 41magsnub ran with the herd."
To me, it is more dangerous driving with the pack. With no one around me, I don't have to worry if I inadvertently drift a little or if other cars around me make sudden moves. I get more nervous with other cars around.
Plus, IMO, many of the drivers who herd with the group are the type that hit the brakes automatically if anything happens.
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The driving is in several blocks over the weekend so the hour of time doesn't really make much difference.
I would likely want to go over 65 regardless. Everyone has their own priorities and perspective. I try to remember that when I get ticked off at other people's driving.
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To me, it is more dangerous driving with the pack. With no one around me, I don't have to worry if I inadvertently drift a little or if other cars around me make sudden moves. I get more nervous with other cars around.
Then match speed with the packs while keeping a good margin between them; if you're going slower than they are, then there will always be new packs catching up with you.
Also, at that kind of distance, the 10 MPH difference adds up in total time. 75 would cut over an hour of time off the trip. For me, that is more important than 12 bucks. Plus, I am more comfortable going just above average speed than just below.
And in summer, that would be an hour less of air conditioner use. You have to bear in mind that there are speed-independent loads like the alternator, power steering pump (interestingly, the bypass on mine doesn't cut in until 70mph) and air conditioning that can only be improved by reducing the drive time so they're not running as long.
Do a piston soak, clean up the intake and get an OBDII reader for a smartphone so you can see MPG calculated via GPS speed and actual EFI flow rate. Bet you're not saving anything significant by slowing down.
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Intentionally creating a condition which impedes the general flow of traffic, especially on something asheaviky travelled as an interstate, is inherently unsafe. Either go with the flow or find roadways which support yourr self-imposed speed restriction.
Interstate highways in Montana (and much of Wyoming) are not very heavily traveled. When I'm trying to go the speed limit (say, 75), I'd rather pass someone doing 65 or even 60 or 55 than someone doing 73. Just watch what's in front of you, and pull over to the left lane and pass and be done with it. The most frustrating is someone going just under the limit which forces you to either slow down, speed, or spend several miles overtaking, in which time someone usually comes up behind doing way over the limit ;/
Driving slow on the two-lane (most are 70 limit in MT) is more dangerous than on the interstate as there is not always a chance to pass.
I try to drive at least 65 as that is the truck speed limit in MT.
Our little car averages 29-31 on the highway, but I have gotten as much as 40 driving through the mountains at 45-65 mph (as fast as you could safely or legally go).
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The most frustrating is someone going just under the limit which forces you to either slow down, speed, or spend several miles overtaking, in which time someone usually comes up behind doing way over the limit ;/
Or the one I got behind on US281 last weekend; 65 in a 75 on the two lane, but then when we finally got a passing lane, I was matching speed with him at 80 uphill. Good thing the Saturn still had a bit of torque left to bump it up to 85 and get around him.
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Or the one I got behind on US281 last weekend; 65 in a 75 on the two lane, but then when we finally got a passing lane, I was matching speed with him at 80 uphill. Good thing the Saturn still had a bit of torque left to bump it up to 85 and get around him.
What was my mom doing in Texas? :facepalm:
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Or the one I got behind on US281 last weekend; 65 in a 75 on the two lane, but then when we finally got a passing lane, I was matching speed with him at 80 uphill. Good thing the Saturn still had a bit of torque left to bump it up to 85 and get around him.
My one up'er story!
Was behind a crossover SUV of some kind on highway 200 (2 lane with some good straight shots to pass but very infrequent passing lanes). He would drop to 35-40 in the curves (no passing zone), but then floor it as soon as it got straight until it got up to about 80. Average speed was maybe 50. He was driving some kind of late model crossover with significantly more power than my car making passing impossible. The plates on the car were for the county I was driving to so I pulled over and took a nap for 15 minutes since driving behind the guy was enraging.
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4 lanes total, or 4 lanes on your side?
If there is very little traffic and you're staying out of the fast lane (or accelerating in the fast lane to pass slower traffic in your lane), then I don't see any issue anyway. Semi trucks rarely go 75mph+ anymore, and they're all over the highway. What about gravel and cement trucks? People towing campers?
Your co-worker is an idiot.
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Intentionally creating a condition which impedes the general flow of traffic, especially on something asheaviky travelled as an interstate, is inherently unsafe. Either go with the flow or find roadways which support yourr self-imposed speed restriction.
FYI...
650 miles @ 31 mpg = 21.97 gallons
650 miles @ 27 mpg = 24.07 gallons
Congrats, you save a whopping twelve bucks, and in the process you place every other driver in peril. Just say no.
Brad
LOL, so true. When one factors in what their time is worth, the savings just aren't there. Driving 10 mph slower costs him ~1hr 20minutes, I'm as cheap as they come, but I won't sit in a car 80 minutes if someone paid me $12 to do it.
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Standard 4 lane interstate (2 lanes each direction).
I am still passing trucks. I like my car too much to drive so slow that I get passed by semi's and what not, too many rocks.
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I think folks are applying their experience in a much higher traffic density area to where I am. Light traffic here means there are no other cars in sight the majority of the time.
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My one up'er story!
Was behind a crossover SUV of some kind on highway 200 (2 lane with some good straight shots to pass but very infrequent passing lanes). He would drop to 35-40 in the curves (no passing zone), but then floor it as soon as it got straight until it got up to about 80. Average speed was maybe 50. He was driving some kind of late model crossover with significantly more power than my car making passing impossible.
Fortunately, on the routes I take a lot, I know where there are clear curves; the ones where you still have good visibility to pass. In the above situation, I'll keep on the gas and pass him as he slows down before he gets fully into the curve.
For the ones who only speed up when you pull out to pass, it's more fun to use that to slingshot them into a tight curve, known speed trap or a school zone, nailing your brakes just in time. :)
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4 lanes total, or 4 lanes on your side?
If there is very little traffic and you're staying out of the fast lane (or accelerating in the fast lane to pass slower traffic in your lane), then I don't see any issue anyway. Semi trucks rarely go 75mph+ anymore, and they're all over the highway. What about gravel and cement trucks? People towing campers?
Your co-worker is an idiot.
This. And I'm right there with you. It seems like the Outback with flat four is more "comfortable" cruising at 65mph as opposed to 70-75mph. I generally try to keep it at 65mph when I go to Indy, for the same reasons. (Better fuel economy, doesn't feel like I'm stressing the engine or me.) Trucks on I-65 are limited to 65mph, so I generally end up between or behind a couple of trucks. I stay in the right hand lane, unless I'm passing and then I'll bump it up to 70-75mph get around and then get my butt back over in the right hand lane.
And since your on the interstate in Montana, I'm sure there's nowhere near the traffic that there is on I-65 between in Indy and Chicago.
So set it a 65mph, stay in the right hand lane, unless passing, and when passing, bump it up to 70-75mph (or higher) to get around them and then get back over.
Your cow-orker is a moron.
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To me, it is more dangerous driving with the pack. With no one around me, I don't have to worry if I inadvertently drift a little or if other cars around me make sudden moves. I get more nervous with other cars around.
Plus, IMO, many of the drivers who herd with the group are the type that hit the brakes automatically if anything happens.
"More dangerous than if 41magsnub ran with the herd." was metaphorical. To be literal, "maintaining the same speed that roughly 85% of drivers maintain."
And, yeah, if there is no one on the road, it doesn't really matter. For my part, I am more likely to fall asleep going less than hte limit.
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It seems like the Outback with flat four is more "comfortable" cruising at 65mph as opposed to 70-75mph.
I have similar car with same engine- they do seem to suck a lot more gas at higher speeds. I think the little gauges they put in those cars guilt you into driving slower. I typically get around 29mpg with my commuting (mixed freeway/urban/city), and get all anxious when the MPG meter falls into the 27MPG range, but in reality it doesn't mean all that much. Funny thing is, my last car had a big V-6 in it and I didn't care much if I got 24 mpg or 21 mpg between fill ups. If it fell into the upper end, I just took that as a bonus.
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I think the little gauges they put in those cars guilt you into driving slower. I typically get around 29mpg with my commuting (mixed freeway/urban/city), and get all anxious when the MPG meter falls into the 27MPG range, but in reality it doesn't mean all that much.
This is why I prefer to use the OBDII reader and the Torque app to track my MPG; I can get instantaneous and trip average on the same screen. I'd like to have a ~5min running average too, but haven't seen an app that offers it. Sure, instantaneous drops to ~20 climbing a hill at 75MPH, but then going down, it's at 60+. As long as trip average stays well above 30, I'm happy. For interstate driving, it's rarely under 36 even with a strong headwind, and 39.4 (38.9 as calculated by topping off the tank and dividing by the miles traveled) is the best I've sustained over a 100mi run.
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If there's traffic, even light traffic, travelling at well above or below the posted limit introduces a marked discontinuity in smooth traffic flow. Anything that requires the majority of other drivers to make an unplanned large correction in speed or course is, by definition, a danger. To what degree is dependent on traffic density, road type, conditions, etc.. There's also the element of vehicle size. A tractor trailer driving 65 in a 75 is easily spotted from a distance. It gives other drivers time to anticipate and plan (if they aren't too busy texting). A small coupe or sedan is easily lost behind the silhouette of preceding traffic, increasing the likelyhood of panic-response detection and evasion.
If the road is deserted and you are your own 85th percentile, drive whatever speed suites your fancy. Otherwise don't be surprised when drivers trying to blend in with the flow get a little miffed when they have to dodge you.
As to speed-related economy, it's a given. Air resistance increases as a square of speed. Ten mph might not seem like much but when you consider it's 15.4% increase in speed from 65 to 75 the difference in economy-killing drag is significant.
Brad
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If there's traffic, even light traffic, travelling at well above or below the posted limit introduces a marked discontinuity in smooth traffic flow. Anything that requires the majority of other drivers to make an unplanned large correction in speed or course is, by definition, a danger. To what degree is dependent on traffic density, road type, conditions, etc.. There's also the element of vehicle size. A tractor trailer driving 65 in a 75 is easily spotted from a distance. It gives other drivers time to anticipate and plan (if they aren't too busy texting). A small coupe or sedan is easily lost behind the silhouette of preceding traffic, increasing the likelyhood of panic-response detection and evasion....
Brad
Why the heck do you even think they build multi-lane highways ???
So that the faster traffic can go around the slower traffic :facepalm:
If you can't see a flipping car in front of you going 10 mph under the speed limit, then you are the problem :mad:
If there is other traffic between you and the slower car, then seeing them change to the left lane to pass might be a clue ..... ;/
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If you can't see a flipping car in front of you going 10 mph under the speed limit, then you are the problem
Twice in the last week in this county, people have rear ended farm equipment on highways with excellent visibility. Never assume any driver can see past their hood.
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Twice in the last week in this county, people have rear ended farm equipment on highways with excellent visibility. Never assume any driver can see past their hood.
Which is the fault of the driver running into the other vehicle.
Lots of farm equipment out on the 2-lane during the summertime here.
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Intentionally creating a condition which impedes the general flow of traffic, especially on something asheaviky travelled as an interstate, is inherently unsafe. Either go with the flow or find roadways which support yourr self-imposed speed restriction.
FYI...
650 miles @ 31 mpg = 21.97 gallons
650 miles @ 27 mpg = 24.07 gallons
Congrats, you save a whopping twelve bucks, and in the process you place every other driver in peril. Just say no.
Brad
Then go tell all the big rigs to get off the road then, because these days most of them are governed to around 60-65 by the companies that own them for best fuel efficiency.
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If its not much traffic have fun. However when there's enough traffic someone can't just cruise into the other lane pretty much at will them I'm going with don't block tge flow of traffic, at least up to the speed limit.
In short if there's no reason for someone to have to slow down or jump on brakes do as you please, within reason of course.
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Why the heck do you even think they build multi-lane highways ???
So that the faster traffic can go around the slower traffic :facepalm:
If you can't see a flipping car in front of you going 10 mph under the speed limit, then you are the problem :mad:
If there is other traffic between you and the slower car, then seeing them change to the left lane to pass might be a clue ..... ;/
I disagree. In a multilane full of traffic there are plenty of ways to lose a smaller vehicle in the crowd ahead. Anyone who drives busy multilanes regularly knows this all too well. Besides, it's a bit selfish and self-serving for a driver to expect the world (in this case, every other driver on the road) should be revolving around them, don't you think? (Edit to add... not direct at any particular post or member. Using it in the generc sense.)
Boom, chill. Yes, I know about trucks. My brother has four rigs that I help with. We're not discussing fleet efficency. We're examining a single event, and motivation versus actual result.
Brad
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If its not much traffic have fun. However when there's enough traffic someone can't just cruise into the other lane pretty much at will them I'm going with don't block tge flow of traffic, at least up to the speed limit.
In short if there's no reason for someone to have to slow down or jump on brakes do as you please, within reason of course.
Which is exactly what I am doing, per the original post spelled out in extra detail because of folks tendency to jump to conclusions.
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He thinks this is dangerous...
Are you creating a dangerous condition? No.
Are you endangering yourself? Perhaps, but no more than usual. We are all at risk every time we venture forth into the world.
I drive 120,000 to 140,000 miles annually in trucks that are often slower than the speed limit due to power to weight issues, occasionally (NV & AZ) due to company set top speed. Make good use of your mirrors and do the courteous, but not stupid, thing when you are delaying others.
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... courteous, but not stupid, thing when you are delaying others.
KEY WORD!!
KEY WORD!!
KEY WORD!!
Brad
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If you're speeding up when other cars are around, that's fine. If not, you create a situation where drivers behind you may make risky moves to get around you. 10 mph is a big speed differential.
Under pretty much all traffic engineering standards, "slow vehicle" on a limited access highway is under 40 MPH. 10 MPH under the speed limit, if you stay in the granny lane, is not dangerous at all.
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The driver going 10 under the limit is not the problem on the interstate. Slight inconvience maybe, but not a problem. The problems are the people texting, the people doing 45 in a 65 because they are granny-driving, the people who think they are in a NASCAR race and are entitled to drive 95 in the 65 zone and weaving through traffic, the people shooting across 4 lanes of traffic to get to their exit, the drivers who are tired and falling asleep, etc.
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"More dangerous than if 41magsnub ran with the herd." was metaphorical. To be literal, "maintaining the same speed that roughly 85% of drivers maintain."
So if 85% or other drivers exceed the speed limit, thus breaking the law, we should break the law too?
Sorry, I can't agree to that. Speed limits are maximum speed limits (except for maybe two roads I've seen in my entire life that stated a minimum speed -- 40 MPH -- in addition to the maximum limit). It's not unlawful to drive slower than the posted speed limit. It IS unlawful to drive faster.
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The driver going 10 under the limit is not the problem on the interstate. Slight inconvience maybe, but not a problem. The problems are the people texting, the people doing 45 in a 65 because they are granny-driving, the people who think they are in a NASCAR race and are entitled to drive 95 in the 65 zone and weaving through traffic, the people shooting across 4 lanes of traffic to get to their exit, the drivers who are tired and falling asleep, etc.
Yes, I know. And I agree. That's why I included both under- and over-speed driving as well as allowing for road and traffic conditions when determining if under-limit driving is appropriate. If 41mag has given due consideration in this regard then I have no issue with what he proposes.
Hawk, just because a limit is posted does not automatically make it either practical or safe. Legality notwithstanding, maintaining the same speed as 85th percentile drivers around you is, statistically speaking, the safest way to travel.
Brad
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From what I understand, the speed limit is supposed to be set at the average speed of the 85th percentile. In NJ, that's no where near the case. Group average on Rt.80 is around 80-85, speed limit is set at 65 for most of it. That won't likely ever change just because of the cash the state rakes in. When the feds dropped the mandated 55 nationwide, NJ bumped the limit in certain areas to 65 with the stipulation that ALL fines are doubled in a 65 zone. $130 for a tail light out. That being said, I don't see an issue as long as you're doing what you said you were. My mother on the other hand, insists on doing the speed limit in the center lane. She's adamant that its only the far left lane that's for passing. As a result, she has a constant stream of cars passing her on both sides all the time.
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Hawk, just because a limit is posted does not automatically make it either practical or safe. Legality notwithstanding, maintaining the same speed as 85th percentile drivers around you is, statistically speaking, the safest way to travel.
By the same logic, if 85 percent of the drivers obeyed the speed limit, then by your analysis driving at the speed limit would magically become safe.
I stand by my statement. The fact that 85 percent of drivers routinely exceed the speed limit, coupled with the fact that it is the differentials in speed that can be dangerous, doesn't mean that the one person who obeys the speed limits (which are set according to traffic engineering analyses for safety) is creating an unsafe condition. Rather, it's the 85 percent who choose to ignore the legal limit who are creating the unsafe condition.
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Then go tell all the big rigs to get off the road then, because these days most of them are governed to around 60-65 by the companies that own them for best fuel efficiency.
Was just going to mention this. Mine is governed to 65 and I generally run 62 to help ensure the fuel bonus and give me a little headroom for passing if I come up on somebody. Interestingly the vehicles I run up on most often are Ranger pickups followed by mid Eighties Toyota pickups (what few haven't been taken South)
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Then go tell all the big rigs to get off the road then, because these days most of them are governed to around 60-65 by the companies that own them for best fuel efficiency.
Funny; every time I get on I20, the big rigs are keeping up at 75. The problem is that they don't always check lanes very well before moving over to pass the slower traffic.
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How many states have a speed limit for trucks that's 10 MPH slower than for cars? I know there are some, but I don't recall where. I'm sure if it created more accidents than it prevents those states would change it.
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I disagree. In a multilane full of traffic there are plenty of ways to lose a smaller vehicle in the crowd ahead. Anyone who drives busy multilanes regularly knows this all too well. Besides, it's a bit selfish and self-serving for a driver to expect the world (in this case, every other driver on the road) should be revolving around them, don't you think? (Edit to add... not direct at any particular post or member. Using it in the generc sense.)
Boom, chill. Yes, I know about trucks. My brother has four rigs that I help with. We're not discussing fleet efficency. We're examining a single event, and motivation versus actual result.
Brad
I would say that applies to the folks who think they have a god given right to always drive at or usually above the speed limit and think that everyone else should just get the hell out of the way ;/
It's not much of a problem in Montana and Wyoming, even on I-80. But down in Colorado, 99% want to drive 25mph over the speed limit, either on the interstate or on some winding mountain pass with hairpin curves marked 10mph, or in heavy rain on a rutted two lane with several inches of standing water :facepalm:
So you think I ought to be squealing the tires on every corner or risk hydroplaning off into the Yampa River just because somebody else wants to speed ??? (not to mention being the out of state driver that gets a ticket)
How many states have a speed limit for trucks that's 10 MPH slower than for cars? I know there are some, but I don't recall where. I'm sure if it created more accidents than it prevents those states would change it.
Montana, for one. That's why I try to drive the truck speed limit at least.
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How many states have a speed limit for trucks that's 10 MPH slower than for cars? I know there are some, but I don't recall where. I'm sure if it created more accidents than it prevents those states would change it.
CA is 55MPH, which can be up to 15MPH less. I actually don't see that many big rigs doing 55MPH in the areas where you can drive 70MPH. They generally (probably the independent guys without a meter?) are doing up to a tad over 60MPH in those zones (with the occasional speed demon doing 70MPH. In my experience though, as a whole the big rig guys are much better on the road than passenger vehicle drivers. Sure, there are jerks, but they seem to be a smaller portion of that population than the general driving population. Additionally, I'm probably giving them a bit more leeway than I do passenger vehicle drivers, knowing that they have a whole lot more vehicle and weight to handle.
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But down in Colorado, 99% want to drive 25mph over the speed limit, either on the interstate or on some winding mountain pass with hairpin curves marked 10mph, or in heavy rain on a rutted two lane with several inches of standing water :facepalm:
So you think I ought to be squealing the tires on every corner or risk hydroplaning off into the Yampa River just because somebody else wants to speed ??? (not to mention being the out of state driver that gets a ticket)
That always bothers the hell out of me too, and is where my courtesy to fast drivers ends. If you're trying to tailgate me into going as fast as you on a narrow, windy road, sorry, but suck it up. I'm driving a safe speed for me. I'll pull into a turnout when I safely can, but if you're tailgaiting me, I'm not going to slam on my brakes to make that little one car length gravel turnout that just popped up 100 feet ahead on the other side of the curve, and either run myself off the road or get rear ended by you.
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So if 85% or other drivers exceed the speed limit, thus breaking the law, we should break the law too?
Sorry, I can't agree to that. Speed limits are maximum speed limits (except for maybe two roads I've seen in my entire life that stated a minimum speed -- 40 MPH -- in addition to the maximum limit). It's not unlawful to drive slower than the posted speed limit. It IS unlawful to drive faster.
Hawk, just because a limit is posted does not automatically make it either practical or safe. Legality notwithstanding, maintaining the same speed as 85th percentile drivers around you is, statistically speaking, the safest way to travel.
This.
By the same logic, if 85 percent of the drivers obeyed the speed limit, then by your analysis driving at the speed limit would magically become safe.
I stand by my statement. The fact that 85 percent of drivers routinely exceed the speed limit, coupled with the fact that it is the differentials in speed that can be dangerous, doesn't mean that the one person who obeys the speed limits (which are set according to traffic engineering analyses for safety) is creating an unsafe condition. Rather, it's the 85 percent who choose to ignore the legal limit who are creating the unsafe condition.
It is not magic, merely reality.
Your statement stands on its knees, after having taken a blow to the solar plexus by numerous traffic studies over the decades. Posted speed limits have little to do with actual highway safety. If the 85th percentile is above the posted limit, it is the dumbass lawmakers and regulators who are creating the unsafe conditions.
Speeding tickets are a racket, where the gov't extorts cash from those using the taxpayer-funded highways. They have nearly zero moral content and are merely an irregularly assessed use tax.
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CA is 55MPH, which can be up to 15MPH less. I actually don't see that many big rigs doing 55MPH in the areas where you can drive 70MPH. They generally (probably the independent guys without a meter?) are doing up to a tad over 60MPH in those zones (with the occasional speed demon doing 70MPH. In my experience though, as a whole the big rig guys are much better on the road than passenger vehicle drivers. Sure, there are jerks, but they seem to be a smaller portion of that population than the general driving population. Additionally, I'm probably giving them a bit more leeway than I do passenger vehicle drivers, knowing that they have a whole lot more vehicle and weight to handle.
Yeah, in general I'd much rather share the road with big rigs, though they are not as polite and professional as I remember from years ago (we had a psycho big rig a few years ago in N. CO). It does bother me when a truck following another truck pulls into the left lane just as I am starting to pass them both, but I cut them some slack knowing that in a car I can slow down and speed up much more easily than they can.
That always bothers the hell out of me too, and is where my courtesy to fast drivers ends. If you're trying to tailgate me into going as fast as you on a narrow, windy road, sorry, but suck it up. I'm driving a safe speed for me. I'll pull into a turnout when I safely can, but if you're tailgaiting me, I'm not going to slam on my brakes to make that little one car length gravel turnout that just popped up 100 feet ahead on the other side of the curve, and either run myself off the road or get rear ended by you.
Sometimes I think about giving up on gas mileage and drive a pickup/suv to Colorado and back. It's a lot more scary in a little econo-box when some ice-hole is 10 feet behind your rear bumper coming down the pass =( I'd would like to let him(her?) eat a ball mount if I had a full size rig with a receiver hitch >:D
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Was just going to mention this. Mine is governed to 65 and I generally run 62 to help ensure the fuel bonus and give me a little headroom for passing if I come up on somebody. Interestingly the vehicles I run up on most often are Ranger pickups followed by mid Eighties Toyota pickups (what few haven't been taken South)
If it was my 86 ranger sorry but that was as fast as she would go. Though I did loan it to a kid who got a ticket going 105. He also brought it back with a blown head gasket and a 4 speed from a 5 speed
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I would love to know what the actual speed of the 85th percentile is on a Friday afternoon driving I-15 from L.A. to L.V. I've done it, a few times. But I surely can't tell you the speed, cuz my eyes were too busy scanning the road and tracking the other traffic to waste any time looking at the speedometer. I will say it can be a helluva rush!
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10 years ago at 5 am the left lane of 95 north headed to dc was 85 plus. And I have been passed
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I would love to know what the actual speed of the 85th percentile is on a Friday afternoon driving I-15 from L.A. to L.V. I've done it, a few times. But I surely can't tell you the speed, cuz my eyes were too busy scanning the road and tracking the other traffic to waste any time looking at the speedometer. I will say it can be a helluva rush!
That's how it is driving I-25 through Denver =(
Sometimes the traffic gets backed up and slows way down, but the instant that it gets moving again you better floor it to keep up and not be run over ;/
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The other nice thing about speed limits is how everyone hits the brakes when a cop is on the side of the road or pulling someone over. Everything is fine intil the wave of braking cars reaches the overpass up the road where visibility gets low and you end up with rear end collisions.
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That cop can be on the other side of the divided highway too. With a jersey wall between
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