Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on November 02, 2014, 06:29:25 PM
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For a long time, I have been pondering a LCR, but I already have more .38 and .357 revolvers than I can consistently carry and use, so I have not followed through on buying one. I have been reading some interesting reviews about the new 9 mm LCR, but have never had a revolver that uses moon clips.
Does anyone have any hands-on experience with a 9 mm revolver? Are moon clips a hassle? What do you think about 9 mm ballistics out of a revolver?
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I can't speak for the 9mm version but the LCR we had was a solid nice shooting little revolver.
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My Blackhawk has a 9mm cylinder but it doesn't use moon clips - the cartridges headspace on the case mouth just like a pistol. I haven't really found it all that useful as it's easy enough to shoot .357 reloads or cheap .38 rather than change out the cylinder.
I absolutely love the little .38/.357 LCR and I've been wimping out and carrying it every day instead of the Blackhawk =)
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The .38 LCR has become my EDC since my back flared up the last time. Shooting bud is a State Police Instructor (very good!). "But you've only got 5 rounds!?!?!?" "James, I'm not going to the Nairobi Mall!" though it could come here (not likely....). It's all about risk assessment.
But to the question at hand: does the 9mm offer any real advantage over the .38+p?? Bullet placement, son, bullet placement!
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[quote author=Bob F. link=topic=46190.msg942817#msg942817 date=1414973393
But to the question at hand: does the 9mm offer any real advantage over the .38+p?? Bullet placement, son, bullet placement!
[/quote]
I have no need whatsoever for another handgun in any caliber; I can barely get the safe closed as it is. So this would primarily be for fun. And I already have 9 mm pistols up the wazoo, so I am thinking just how much I would need a 9 mm revolver to add to the mix. Hmm.
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I have no need whatsoever for another handgun in any caliber; I can barely get the safe closed as it is. So this would primarily be for fun. And I already have 9 mm pistols up the wazoo, so I am thinking just how much I would need a 9 mm revolver to add to the mix. Hmm.
Do you have a .45 Colt or a .44 magnum ???
How about a .44-40 or .38-40, or a .30 carbine ...?
If not, I'm sure that you need one :angel:
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"But you've only got 5 rounds!?!?!?" "James, I'm not going to the Nairobi Mall!" though it could come here (not likely....). It's all about risk assessment.
It is coming here- absolutely guaranteed-but unlikely any one of us in particular will be at the X . But it is gonna happen.
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I always thought 38 was more powerful than 9mm.
I am having a hard time finding out if the clips are needed for function or just for extraction.
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From what I have seen the clips are needed for extraction but the gun will function fine without them. You'll just have to unload it like a Colt SAA. I have been researching this gun and the 9mm has definite velocity/kinetic energy advantage with lighter or same weight bullets but as the weight of the projectile goes up the balance of power changes. I don't know when light for caliber bullets became the norm for .38 special but 9mm weight bullets fired at .380 velocities haven't done it any favors. Step up the ammo game and 9mm doesn't beat the ballistic efficiency of a hot and heavy .38 special or the power of proper .357.
I have only run a couple boxes through a rental LCR .38 and found the recoil pretty brisk even with middling ammo. Accuracy and trigger were good. The 9mm is reported to be snappier than the .38 even though it's built on the heavier .357 frame, and I simply can't imagine full house .357 through a gun that light (and S&W makes some that are lighter!) Full house .357 loads through our 2 1/4" SP101 are pretty alarming and the weight is 26oz to the LCR's 17oz.
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Moon clips are the bees knees. They are what allows Jerry Whatshisname get those blazing reloads so he can do those amazing multiple-load shots.
If you are going to go with something that uses moon clips seriously consider getting a loader/unloader tool
http://www.mooncliptool.com/
http://www.bmtequipped.com/products.php
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/447470/california-competition-works-remooner-moon-clip-loading-tool-for-6-shot-full-moon-clips
Stay away frrom these http://www.midwayusa.com/product/447470/california-competition-works-remooner-moon-clip-loading-tool-for-6-shot-full-moon-clips unless you like showing off your NSFW vocabulary. Much moar betterer like this http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/speedloaders-accessories/moonclip-accessories/demooner-prod4145.aspx
This http://www.brownells.com/shooting-accessories/speedloaders-accessories/moonclip-accessories/45-acp-sku098000025-20756-45525.aspx is fun but can be a bit less than secure holding the top clip. I like http://www.shootersconnectionstore.com/North-Mountain-Moon-Clip-Holder-IDPA-Single-Short-Post-w-Tek-Lok-P2308.aspx better.
stay safe.
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The thing is, they never optimize the platform for 9mm. Such as a significantly shorter cylinder & frame. With ammo makers like Buff Bore +P and the availability of .38spl tgt wadcutters, .38spl+P has a much greater envelope of available cartridges than 9mm both mild & wild. The only advantage of 9mm is the moon clips. Which I use on a SW1917 and Webley MkVI .45ACP conversion.
Bee's Knees 9mm revo:
1. Break-top
2. Alloy frame.
3. Chopped cyl & frame
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The thing is, they never optimize the platform for 9mm. Such as a significantly shorter cylinder & frame. With ammo makers like Buff Bore +P and the availability of .38spl tgt wadcutters, .38spl+P has a much greater envelope of available cartridges than 9mm both mild & wild. The only advantage of 9mm is the moon clips. Which I use on a SW1917 and Webley MkVI .45ACP conversion.
Bee's Knees 9mm revo:
1. Break-top
2. Alloy frame.
3. Chopped cyl & frame
Yes, A Smith 3 series with a chopped down titanium cylinder.
On moon clips, I love them just consider that the blazing fast reloads of internet lore come from .45acp guns. Stiff clip, short stubby cartridges. I own two guns and on the stainless one I chamfered the chambers and can pretty much throw a clip of ball in that thing from across the room. No experience with 9mm clips, the .38/.357 ones seem to still be better than speedloaders, but not quite as slick as the .45 clips. But stuffing 8 .357 in a gun still would make me happy if I could afford a 327.
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I have a S&W in 357 magnum that takes moon clips and they are not as easy to line up into the cylinder. The 45 ACP just falls right in. 9mm might work pretty well.
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I have a Taurus 905.
The biggest drawback is that it's a Taurus. The thing is flaky and prone to light primer strikes. The moonclips are awesome, though. I have considered on occasion having one of my .38 revolvers cut for moonclips.
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I have only run a couple boxes through a rental LCR .38 and found the recoil pretty brisk even with middling ammo. Accuracy and trigger were good. The 9mm is reported to be snappier than the .38 even though it's built on the heavier .357 frame, and I simply can't imagine full house .357 through a gun that light (and S&W makes some that are lighter!) Full house .357 loads through our 2 1/4" SP101 are pretty alarming and the weight is 26oz to the LCR's 17oz.
I just didn't find the recoil with .38 in an LCR to be anything bad. Yeah, there's a lot of muzzle flip but somehow the frame and grip absorb a lot of shock that is otherwise passed to the hand(s). And our friend with bad arthritis in her hands handles it just fine, which was a surprise to me. I only bought the .357 version for emergency ammo compatibility with my other sixguns, and I haven't shot it with full load .357 yet - just my .357 reloads with 158g LSWC and 5gr Unique (.38 load).
I have noticed that 9mm is quite snappy even in my heavy Blackhawk ;/
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Why try to make a gun optimized for rimmed cartridges use 9mm?
or for that matter a gun optimized for rim less, use rimmed?
9mm revolvers and .38 auto-loaders never made the least bit of sense to me.
like a solution running around looking for a question.
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Why try to make a gun optimized for rimmed cartridges use 9mm?
or for that matter a gun optimized for rim less, use rimmed?
9mm revolvers and .38 auto-loaders never made the least bit of sense to me.
like a solution running around looking for a question.
Is .38 Super rimmed enough to be useable with an appropriately sized revolver ejector star? That might be interesting.
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I mostly shoot full size 9mm pistols and .38 or .357 revolvers so my impression of recoil is probably a little on the high side. Interestingly I find my tiny .380 quite pleasant to shoot when most people dislike it. Perhaps that's the benefit of having smaller hands? Worth noting, there is almost a 4 oz. difference between the .38 special .357 LCR. That's ~20% increase in weight which is enough to make a difference in subjective recoil IMO. It really is a shame they aren't maximizing the short barrel efficiency of 9mm by actually reducing the cylinder and frame length to accommodate it.
So... who wants to pioneer some extra heavy cast lead 9mm bullets to fill up some of that free bore in the cylinder?
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I mostly shoot full size 9mm pistols and .38 or .357 revolvers so my impression of recoil is probably a little on the high side. Interestingly I find my tiny .380 quite pleasant to shoot when most people dislike it. Perhaps that's the benefit of having smaller hands? Worth noting, there is almost a 4 oz. difference between the .38 special .357 LCR. That's ~20% increase in weight which is enough to make a difference in subjective recoil IMO. It really is a shame they aren't maximizing the short barrel efficiency of 9mm by actually reducing the cylinder and frame length to accommodate it.
So... who wants to pioneer some extra heavy cast lead 9mm bullets to fill up some of that free bore in the cylinder?
How's about some of those ~170gr LSWC .358" pills designed by Elmer Keith to shoot from .38spl brass? Push them through the appropriate sizer for 9mm (0.356"?) and load into the 9mm case.
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So these have been some very helpful comments. I am now re-thinking any real practical use for this, that is not already met by my small .38 or .357 revolvers or my 9 mm compact pistols.
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Worth noting, there is almost a 4 oz. difference between the .38 special .357 LCR. That's ~20% increase in weight which is enough to make a difference in subjective recoil IMO.
I shot the LCR in .38 before I bought one in .357 for myself.
So these have been some very helpful comments. I am now re-thinking any real practical use for this, that is not already met by my small .38 or .357 revolvers or my 9 mm compact pistols.
Since when does "practical" have anything to do with buying more guns ??? ;/ :P =D
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How's about some of those ~170gr LSWC .358" pills designed by Elmer Keith to shoot from .38spl brass? Push them through the appropriate sizer for 9mm (0.356"?) and load into the 9mm case.
I suspect three things will be an issue:
pressure
getting enough powder in the case to drive them effectively
twist rate too slow for such heavy bullets.
Chris
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Is .38 Super rimmed enough to be useable with an appropriately sized revolver ejector star? That might be interesting.
I believe S&W offers/offered a JM .38 Super Performance Center revolver.
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The thing is, they never optimize the platform for 9mm. Such as a significantly shorter cylinder & frame. With ammo makers like Buff Bore +P and the availability of .38spl tgt wadcutters, .38spl+P has a much greater envelope of available cartridges than 9mm both mild & wild. The only advantage of 9mm is the moon clips. Which I use on a SW1917 and Webley MkVI .45ACP conversion.
Bee's Knees 9mm revo:
1. Break-top
2. Alloy frame.
3. Chopped cyl & frame
Have it fire from the bottom of the cylinder like a Chiappa Rhino while we're at it.
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Since when does "practical" have anything to do with buying more guns ??? ;/ :P =D
Well, that's true. Since I don't need a new carry gun, maybe I should save my pennies for a stainless Vaquero in .357 to cross my path. I have not owned a single-action for years, and maybe I should get another one.
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Well, that's true. Since I don't need a new carry gun, maybe I should save my pennies for a stainless Vaquero in .357 to cross my path. I have not owned a single-action for years, and maybe I should get another one.
Oh, no - you should get a pair ;)
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At first I was stoked then I realized
Not any shorter than 38
Not more powerful
Not lighter weighs 17oz (Shield 9mm is 19oz)
More expensive
As much as I was stoked about a 9mm carry revolver it's just not working out.
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I have an S&W 940, which is their all stainless J-frame snub-nosed revolver. It is not fun to shoot, and has almost as much recoil as my 3 inch model 60 with .357s. While it is a nice idea, for the size and weight there are many better options.
Tim
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Since we are talking 9mm, Palmetto State Armory had an email yesterday with a 9mm AR Rifle kit without the stripped lower.
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http://www.ruger.com/products/lcrDE/specSheets/5415.html
So on more or less of an impulse, I decided to drink of the LCR Kool-Aid and bought this tonight. It was being sold at a local variety store for $ 449 on sale, which is $ 100 off their list price and is the everyday price of the .38 LCR without the laser. I figured with the combination of the Hogue grip and the frame-mounted laser, I could not go wrong, and this was by far the best local price I have seen for this model. I have to say that as I picked it up and felt how light it was, a big grin hit my face. This is my first polymer and ultra-lightweight revolver. I think my next lightest revolver is my Taurus 651 in titanium, and that is a hair under 18 ounces.
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http://www.ruger.com/products/lcrDE/specSheets/5415.html
So on more or less of an impulse, I decided to drink of the LCR Kool-Aid and bought this tonight. It was being sold at a local variety store for $ 449 on sale, which is $ 100 off their list price and is the everyday price of the .38 LCR without the laser. I figured with the combination of the Hogue grip and the frame-mounted laser, I could not go wrong, and this was by far the best local price I have seen for this model. I have to say that as I picked it up and felt how light it was, a big grin hit my face. This is my first polymer and ultra-lightweight revolver. I think my next lightest revolver is my Taurus 651 in titanium, and that is a hair under 18 ounces.
Interested, since I have a 17oz Taurus Total Ti 651 with a Crimson Trace laser sight.
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So for purposes of comparison, last night I went to the range and test-fired my new LCR with the LaserMax sight and my existing 2.25" SP-101 with a Crimson Trace grip. I shot off Speer Gold Dot .38+p JHP and some miscellaneous semi-wadcutters that I had lying around. I was most interested to find out that the LCR with the Hogue Tamer grip was more comfortable to shoot than the SP-101 with the hard plastic CT grip, even given the greater weight of the SP-101. Otherwise, it was the typical stellar Ruger performance out of both handguns.