Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Monkeyleg on February 04, 2015, 11:46:48 PM
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I have a house with tall ceilings, which means the roof has high peaks, which means there's a lot of square footage of roof. Replacement is going to be $10,000 or more, whenever that point comes.
I noticed some black mold on three or four areas of the roof, and called a roofing guy to take a look. He explained that it was fungus, and that it's appearing because the anti-fungus treatment used on southern roofing material is wearing off. I've never heard of this, but I know nothing about roofs.
He got up on the roof and took a look around. He said that the roof was probably 10 to 12 years old. 20 years old is really old for a roof in the south. The gravel is worn off most of the shingles now from the weather, especially hail storms, which are frequent.
All this talk had me nervous. He then told me to call my insurance company and tell them that a roofer said I had hail damage, and I needed an adjuster to come out and take a look. He said he would deal with the adjuster. He pulled out a contract and wrote that he would replace the roof for whatever the insurance company paid. If they wouldn't pay, he wouldn't do the roof. But he said he deals with adjusters all the time, and gets them to cave in.
I can't tell if the guy is a scammer or not. If the insurance company caves, that means I need a new roof, so it's not a scam. He just seemed to go about it so quickly. Nice guy, though.
Any thoughts, other than calling another company for a second opinion?
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If there have been hail storms he's right. Especially if any of your neighbors got new roofs
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A second and third opinion is always a good idea when any legitimate roofer should give you a free estimate. $10K doesn't sound to bad, I paid $7K for a complete tear off and new roof 4 years ago and my house is only 1800 sqft with a pretty plain roof with a moderate slope and only one middle sized dormer.
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A lot of scamming is going on with roofs and "hail damage"
http://www.bbb.org/central-georgia/business-reviews/roofing-contractors/industry-tips/roofing-scams
http://www.bushins.com/blog/bid/98732/Insurance-Roofing-Scams-and-How-They-Affect-Everyone
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It definitely smells like a scam to me, even from this distance.
What's the deal? If the insurance company will pay, you need a new roof. If the insurance company won't pay, you DON'T need a new roof? Either you do or you don't, and which is correct is not dependent on whether or not an insurance company is willing to be suckered.
Get two more opinions.
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I am in the 2 more opinions camp as well.
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This is where it gets iffy.
Insurance companies cover this because, well, roofs get hail damage. Particularly over time if they are a frequent occurrence.
But its also become a running scam because "hail damage" wink wink.
I'd go with another opinion or Two and if they concur get with insurance and go with whoever is best reviewed and gives you the beat good vibes.
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You can get all the second opinions you want but, in the end, the only one that matters is the insurance company's.
Brad
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My company came out she never even went up on roof. Stroked a check for 6500 bucks and gone. Less than an hour
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If you have not had a hail event recently that would pinpoint the damage from that occurrence, the insurance adjuster would likely claim that the damage, if any, was cumulative and thus be called normal wear and tear for the region. That means you have no claim.
Does your state have any rule with respect to insurance claims? Some states allow insurance companies to increase your premium due to a claim, or non renew if you have a certain number of claims within a certain time frame. To make a report and have an adjuster look at the roof could be marked down as a "claim" even though they won't pay because they deem it to be normal wear and tear.
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If there have been hail storms he's right. Especially if any of your neighbors got new roofs
This; a 10 year old roof down here is going to have hail damage. Probably 5-6 damaging storms worth of it.
If you have not had a hail event recently that would pinpoint the damage from that occurrence, the insurance adjuster would likely claim that the damage, if any, was cumulative and thus be called normal wear and tear for the region. That means you have no claim.
Sounds to me like the auto insurance companies need to get in on this scam; say it's normal to have a wreck about every five to ten years, so any car over 7 years old can only have "normal wear and tear" even if it's totaled.
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Thanks for the replies. I'll get some other opinions.
We've had some major hail storms over the last six or so years. I know from being up on the roof that just about all of the little gravel (forget the term) is off. It's in the gutters, which I haven't cleaned since I was here.
Hawkmoon, his offer is that he'll replace the roof at no cost to me for whatever the insurance company will pay. If they won't pay, then it's up to me as to whether I want the roof done. I wouldn't want to wait until the fungus got worse and have the insurance company say that I'm doing it because of fungus.
People in my neighborhood are getting new roofs all the time. I was told by my realtor that roofs down here don't last long because of hail.
Grampster, the guy said he would mark all the areas that were hail damage. He seemed confident that he could make the adjuster agree it was hail damage. Maybe he's known for breaking adjusters' legs. Don't know.
As for the insurance company raising rates, I'll have to check on that (although they'd have to raise rates a lot to recover $10,000+). The roofing guy said that was illegal. When I called my insurance agent months ago to initiate a claim for stolen property, he tried to talk me out of filing a claim, saying the company would raise my rates. Any time I've called them about a problem, he's warned that the insurer will raise my rates. I think he just doesn't want me to ever file a claim.
I suppose I could wait until another major hail storm (shouldn't be more than a year or two). Meanwhile, I'll call for two more opinions.
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Hawkmoon, his offer is that he'll replace the roof at no cost to me for whatever the insurance company will pay.
Pull the adjuster aside, hand her a $20, and tell her to pay $10 for the reroof.
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Mold, without any other problems with the function of the roof, does not need a replacement job.
Simple solutions like http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/asktoh/question/0,,401167,00.html , with preventative steps to halt/slow recurrence, can be done for less that $100 (so long as you do not fall off the roof).
I've never completely understood the function of pebbles on asphalt shingles, since metal roofs (for instance) do not seem to require any texturing. If it's really necessary, get a bucket oftar, a mop, and a bag or so of aquarium pebbles. Just make sure you wait till it's over 90* and 95% RH before starting the job. =D
stay safe.
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The grit is uv protection
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Damn. Another reason I don't feel bad sticking it out up here in Wisconsin.
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You can get all the second opinions you want but, in the end, the only one that matters is the insurance company's.
True -- as far as payment. Whether or not the roof is (a) damaged or (b) old and past it's service life is an objective fact, unrelated to the question of who pays to repair or replace it.
Back to the original post: I've never heard of "southern roofing materials," and I'm in the construction field. Shingles are shingles, and the factory doesn't have any idea of whether that bundle is going to San Diego or Baton Rouge or Boston. They are what they are.
I've also never heard of an anti-fungal "coatiing" on roof shingles. Mold on a roof is usually found in places where a wind eddy allows damp leaves to collect, and/or places under shade trees that stay wet after a rain longer that the rest of the roof. Yes, mold shortens the life of a roof. It can be removed with a power washer, or a pail of Chlorox solution and a SOFT bristled broom.
There is no "gravel" on a shingle roof. The mineral coating is much smaller than "gravel." It used to be Mica granules, but today they may be synthetic. The granules don't do anything to provide water protection. They are there only to reflect sunlight so the asphalt in the singles doesn't degrade as fast. If they are indeed mostly gone, that's a hint to monitor the roof condition and be prepared to reroof, but it doesn't necessarily mean you must do so right now, today.
The clues to watch out for are cracks in the actual asphalt. The garage roof on the house I was in twenty years ago, as an example, looked good from the ground. Up on the roof, there were issues. The shingles were the old, three-tab shingles, not the fancy new "architectural" shingles. Between sunlight on the south-facing slope and water erosion, the granules were completely gone in the slots between tabs, and most of the shingles were cracked under those slots.
That one got reroofed.
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Suspicious? Depends. If he is his own roofer he can probably make a living for what the insurance co will pay. Or he hires illegals. Big companies paying Americans maybe not so much.
Ten years normal wear & tear should not denude shingles completely of their grit. If yours are ten years old and have no grit, they have taken a hail hit, maybe more than once. The adjuster I know also pulls top layer back and looks to see if the underside or the covered bits of the next lower row of shingles have any damage from hail hits.
If it were me, I would clean off the mold/mildew and wait for the next hail storm. THEN get the adjuster out. That way you can point to a specific date and truthfully say, "My house got hit with hail on yyy-mm-dd." And , "Yes I did maintain my roof. Just last year I cleaned off all the mold & mildew."
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There are such things as algae resistance shingles. They're treated with a zinc compound, I think.
You'll often see zinc or copper strips attached near the roof peak to deal with this sort of thing. Rain dissolves minute traces of zinc or copper, which is toxic to algae.
There are also spray on compounds that are apparently more effective than the metal strips. An application supposedly lasts for 3 or so years.
ah, here you go, some interesting information on it.
http://www.sparrowexteriors.com/algae-fungal-resistant-asphalt-shingles/
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I just had another roofer out here, and he couldn't find any hail damage. He said the roof was about 10 years old, but was still in fairly decent shape. He said I should just wait for the next big hail storm, which should be sometime in the next year to five years. Then insurance will pay for it. Insurance pays for most of the roofs in this area.
This house has been re-roofed once already, and insurance paid for that, as it was hail damage.
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Damn. Another reason I don't feel bad sticking it out up here in Wisconsin.
On a day like today, I suggest you not stick anything out up here in Wisconsin . . .
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Damn. Another reason I don't feel bad sticking it out up here in Wisconsin.
Yes, but the roads here last more than two seasons, and there's still daily driver cars from the 1960's and 1970's on the road that have rust-free bodies. The heat does things in down here, and the winters do in things up there.
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A couple years ago I got a letter from my insurance company. They wanted me to replace my roof or I would be dropped. had a roofer come out and look at it, and he said the garage could use it, as there were a few corners starting to lift on the shingles, but the house was fine. I ended up with a new insurance company that said the roof was good when their inspector looked at it.
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Damn. Another reason I don't feel bad sticking it out up here in Wisconsin.
If you're referring to the hail, it's really no big deal, and it's usually not severe. Rarely comes and rarely bigger than pebble size.
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This house has been re-roofed once already, and insurance paid for that, as it was hail damage.
Was the previous job a tear-off, or were the new shingles installed right over the old?
Typically, building codes allow ONE reroof by going over, but don't allow more than two layers of shingles on the roof. Not surprising -- shingles weigh around 4 to 5 pounds per square foot, so pile up a bunch of layers and you use up the safety factor in the rafters (or trusses) pretty quickly. And a second layer never lasts as long over an old roof as it would if the same shingles were laid down like a new roof.
And, lastly, if you expect to be in the house for awhile, stripping two layers of shingles is a female dog of a job, so any money you save today will be blown in demolition costs when the next reroof comes along and the roofer has to take off two layers.
I'm just really skeptical about someone who says he'll do the work for whatever (unknown, indeterminate) amount the insurance company will pay. How do you know what you're going to get? Does his non-price include a style and grade of shingle you'd want on your house? Does his price include a proper underlayment? Does his proposal include disposing of all the old roofing? Is he offering shingles with a 15-, 20-, 25-, or 30-year warranty? Is it a brand you've even heard of?
My grandfather used to say that, "A good worker knows the value of his work." Someone who wanders in and says he'll do it for whatever doesn't seem to be someone who knows the value of his work. (Or ... maybe he does.)
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I took 5 layers off a raftered 80 some year old house. It was 2 female dogs. I broke even on it and the kids that helped me still bust my balls about it
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If you're referring to the hail, it's really no big deal, and it's usually not severe. Rarely comes and rarely bigger than pebble size.
This.
Tornadoes are a bigger threat IMHO, and I'll deal with the occasional one of those vs snow every winter
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Was the previous job a tear-off, or were the new shingles installed right over the old?
Typically, building codes allow ONE reroof by going over, but don't allow more than two layers of shingles on the roof. Not surprising -- shingles weigh around 4 to 5 pounds per square foot, so pile up a bunch of layers and you use up the safety factor in the rafters (or trusses) pretty quickly. And a second layer never lasts as long over an old roof as it would if the same shingles were laid down like a new roof.
And, lastly, if you expect to be in the house for awhile, stripping two layers of shingles is a female dog of a job, so any money you save today will be blown in demolition costs when the next reroof comes along and the roofer has to take off two layers.
I'm just really skeptical about someone who says he'll do the work for whatever (unknown, indeterminate) amount the insurance company will pay. How do you know what you're going to get? Does his non-price include a style and grade of shingle you'd want on your house? Does his price include a proper underlayment? Does his proposal include disposing of all the old roofing? Is he offering shingles with a 15-, 20-, 25-, or 30-year warranty? Is it a brand you've even heard of?
My grandfather used to say that, "A good worker knows the value of his work." Someone who wanders in and says he'll do it for whatever doesn't seem to be someone who knows the value of his work. (Or ... maybe he does.)
There's only one layer on there, so the previous was a tear-off. That's what I'd want, too. I've been up in the attic a lot, and the wood up there is pretty lightweight.
As for the roofer, he's just fishing for work, or that's the other roofer's opinion. If he gets an adjuster to agree, then he got a job. If the adjuster doesn't agree, he doesn't get a job. But I get nicked for trying to file a claim.