Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on March 03, 2015, 12:37:55 PM
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/03/02/u-s-millennials-post-abysmal-scores-in-tech-skills-test-lag-behind-foreign-peers/?hpid=z14
Well this is a fine kettle of fish. We need the Millennials to pay for Social Security!
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Here is the full ETS study: http://www.ets.org/s/research/30079/index.html
Note that the study examines such things as parental educational attainment, race/ethnicity gaps, US native, and other factors contributing to the results as a whole.
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Not exactly surprised. They're being geared towards taking tests, not real world performance.
Kinda like Presidents are geared towards campaigning, not the actual job of Presidency
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I am not sure I know how to respond to this. To me it is a number of things.
1. We have supressed competition in the class room.
2. I think we have dumbed down and devalued the curriculum in most public schools.
3. The teacher's unions have done their best to contribute to this.
4. Politicians (local and state) have done their best to waste school funding money on overpriced projects and admin jobs.
5. The Feds have turned "local schools" into a federal and state bureaucracy.
6. We stopped teaching hands on skills in many cases.
7. We have been on an "everyone should go to college" kick for a while without encouraging useful degrees. We are still encouraging it by subsidies via govt loans and such.
I am sure there is more stuff and some of these are very general.
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I'm not sure I totally believe the study. The .Indians that I've worked with (bless their hearts) have had impeccable academic and professional credentials, but could not problem solve their way out of a wet paper bag. It's like all of their training went into resume polishing.
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I'm not sure I totally believe the study. The .Indians that I've worked with (bless their hearts) have had impeccable academic and professional credentials, but could not problem solve their way out of a wet paper bag. It's like all of their training went into resume polishing.
This! I work with several teams in India and they are all the same.
If you want something solved with a non-scripted solution, you go to an American or European, more frequently the Americans.
Working for a foreign multinational has exposed me to people in the same line of work worldwide. It's not any better "over there".
Chris
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I'm not sure I totally believe the study. The .Indians that I've worked with (bless their hearts) have had impeccable academic and professional credentials, but could not problem solve their way out of a wet paper bag. It's like all of their training went into resume polishing.
That has been my experience as well.
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Ditto the above experiences with offshore Indian contractors. We recently switched to offshore Polish engineers. They're better than the Indian engineers we had, but they're still not up to snuff compared to our on-shore engineers so far. They're still new to the product so hopefully they'll improve. I'm not holding my breath though . . .
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For my experience if I could do it all over again and knew at 18 what I know now, I would have went and either 1) had the Army teach me to fly helicopter or 2) gone into welding.
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For my experience if I could do it all over again and knew at 18 what I know now, I would have went and either 1) had the Army teach me to fly helicopter or 2) gone into welding.
If I could have known at 18 what I know now I'd have invested heavily in Microsoft and Apple and I wouldn't have to worry about working now. =D
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For my experience if I could do it all over again and knew at 18 what I know now, I would have went and either 1) had the Army teach me to fly helicopter or 2) gone into welding.
Welding pays well if you are good, work hard, and can get into the top end of it. A lot of hourly jobs are like that. There are some good guys who work for my company, but our management as a whole really doesn't have a great deal of respect for hourly people in general.
I think I would still go engineering though I would likely look at specializing in a couple different areas that pay better. The problem (to me) is how many of those areas involve a good bit of travel.
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Welding pays well if you are good, work hard, and can get into the top end of it. A lot of hourly jobs are like that. There are some good guys who work for my company, but our management as a whole really doesn't have a great deal of respect for hourly people in general.
I think I would still go engineering though I would likely look at specializing in a couple different areas that pay better. The problem (to me) is how many of those areas involve a good bit of travel.
My company is sort of the same. They "understand" that the worker bees in the shop are important but then always claim that the ceiling is higher if you have a desk job.
I am looking at getting an engineering degree that is more focused on the application as opposed of the design of a product.
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This! I work with several teams in India and they are all the same.
If you want something solved with a non-scripted solution, you go to an American or European, more frequently the Americans.
Working for a foreign multinational has exposed me to people in the same line of work worldwide. It's not any better "over there".
Chris
Somehow made me think of something I saw of Facebook yesterday:
The bare statistical fact is that if you are smart enough for college coursework (estimated to be ~115) you are ahead of EIGHTY-FIVE percent of the human race. 120 puts you in the top 5%, the MENSA qualification of 130 is the top 2%. When I consider that I qualify for MENSA and how smart I DON'T consider myself, this is a horrifying commentary on the true level of the human race. Think of the dumbest, most unreasonable and illogical people you've ever discussed politics with on the internet. Those people were functionally literate and interested in politics, which puts them AHEAD of the vast majority. Good luck sleeping tonight with that thought in your head.
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I guess some part of all this is that lifestyles of many young people these days don't involve manual labor. Unless they were interested in stuff and pursue it or are shown stuff by their parents, they may never e exposed to how to do manual tasks. Of course, that isn't everyone, just a larger percentage than yesteryear. Probably a result of more people with more disposable income hiring out everything.
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One of my son's classmates mom is beating him up about not wanting to go to college after he graduates. He wants to get a job and continue going to Tech to get his welding certs. He is a good kid and IMHO wouldn't do well in a college environment and I think he realizes that. He is currently taking automotive classes at Tech in the morning and then finishing up his high school requirements in the afternoon.
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One of my son's classmates mom is beating him up about not wanting to go to college after he graduates. He wants to get a job and continue going to Tech to get his welding certs. He is a good kid and IMHO wouldn't do well in a college environment and I think he realizes that. He is currently taking automotive classes at Tech in the morning and then finishing up his high school requirements in the afternoon.
He'll do just fine in tech school, and he will make more money that route and have better job security. If I recall correctly, go for a specialty certification, like pipe welding or pressure vessels. That work is kind of hard to outsource to China, and illegal Mexicans (no offense) don't have the certification even if some of them can weld
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In addition to the above-mentioned deficiencies there's also been a precipitous decline in general professionalism with regard to communication. When calling for additional information about a position I can almost count on getting a return call if it's to an administrative assistant or a seasoned member of senior management. If it's a young middle manager or an academe, forget it. Return call rate drops to about 20% and some of those insist on replying only by text or email.
Brad
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He'll do just fine in tech school, and he will make more money that route and have better job security. If I recall correctly, go for a specialty certification, like pipe welding or pressure vessels. That work is kind of hard to outsource to China, and illegal Mexicans (no offense) don't have the certification even if some of them can weld
I am in complete agreement with this. Knowing the kid as well as I do I know that he will be better off in tech school learning a trade as opposed to going to college.
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In addition to the above-mentioned deficiencies there's also been a precipitous decline in general professionalism with regard to communication. When calling for additional information about a position I can almost count on getting a return call if it's to an administrative assistant or a seasoned member of senior management. If it's a young middle manager or an academe, forget it. Return call rate drops to about 20% and some of those insist on replying only by text or email.
Brad
Texts and emails have their place, but a 2 minute conversation can sometimes replace dozens of emails.
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Texts and emails have their place, but a 2 minute conversation can sometimes replace dozens of emails.
And makes a better impression.
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I work daily with millennial and quite frankly I am not impressed. It starts with not being able to operate a watch and gets worse from there and these are college graduates. I see a profound difference between your garden variety millennial college graduate and a vet with no college. Gimme the vet any day.
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I work daily with millennial and quite frankly I am not impressed. It starts with not being able to operate a watch and gets worse from there and these are college graduates. I see a profound difference between your garden variety millennial college graduate and a vet with no college. Gimme the vet any day.
My experience is the opposite of yours, but I do work in healthcare.
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My experience is the opposite of yours, but I do work in healthcare.
"Improvise, adapt and overcome" is not an acceptable prescription?
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We mostly hire Chemical and Mechanical Engineering grads. Most of them are pretty good and eager to learn though some are very green. I know I was green out of college. I hadn't done a lot of hands on mechanical work.