Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Brad Johnson on April 16, 2015, 02:07:49 AM
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Just discovered one of my favorite series of all time is on NetFlix. Members of the 4077th - Hawkeye, Trapper, B.J., Radar, Klinger, Colonels Blake and Potter, and Hot Lips Houlighan - present and reporting for duty. Interesting to see how the series morphed from clumsy but endearing run-of-the-mill fluffy time filler to a national TV treasure. Seeing it almost four decades later there are political undertones and socially acceptable norms which run afoul of current acceptance (and counter to my personal beliefs) but it's still just as fun, enjoyable, and thought provoking as I remember.
Brad
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Seeing it almost four decades later there are political undertones and socially acceptable norms which run afoul of current acceptance (and counter to my personal beliefs.)
Yeah, that kind of ruined it for me, too, even when it was on originally. However, one of the memorable moments was when Frank snuck Hot Lips' father's .25 ACP into an "unarmed" meeting with NK officials and the NK officer laughed at it and gave it back to Frank. I do remember that one.
It's also on one of the "Olde Pharte Over-the-Air" DTV channels nowadays. I skip over it on the OTA listings automatically.
Seems these TV writers and actors can't keep their fingers out of the political pie.
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Was, and still is, excellent TV. One of the reason I like netflix so much is how many shows I used to love make their way on there. As well as series I just never would have known about or watched. Long Way Round/Long Way Down for instance I've enjoyed. As well as series I didn't care for when they were on TV but actually rather liked. Maybe it was being a bit older, maybe it was being able to sit down and power watch, but I've gotten into a few series I missed when they were new.
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This is the first adult show I remember seeing, in 1979 or 1980. I didn't understand why a show with sad music and soldiers was supposed to be funny.
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I remember laughing a lot at the earlier episodes. I'm not sure I watched much of the last couple seasons, other than the finale, as by then they had gotten pretty left wing in political messaging, enough to turn off even my much younger, more liberal self. One of the things that shows how times have changed is that, as a recognized liberal show, and approved of by the left of the time, they had a character named "spearchucker".
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I have hazy positive memories of the teevee show, except at the end, which demonstrated that if you put message above entertainment, you get bad entertainment.
I did re-watch MASH the movie a couple years ago. I first saw it in either HS or college, when I was a heathen. Thought it was great then. High-larious and witty.
Watching it recently it was a horrorshow of nihilism and degradation. Really nasty and morally corrosive. None but one or two supporting characters were sympathetic. Toward the end, I had hopes of a re-engineered "director's cut" where they were overrun by Norks or Red Chinese and all were slaughtered to a man.
IIRC, the teevee show in the early years had very little of the nastiness of the movie.
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Some of the best comedy writing ever. There's so many classic episodes that it would take forever to describe them all.
Near the end, when the show became preachy on political issues, I just stopped watching. Alan Alda really started to grate on me, and then never let up to this day.
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Glad to find confirmation of my sensitivity to the shift to politics. From the Wiki article on Alda:
However, as the original writers gradually left the series, Alda gained increasing control, and by the final seasons had become a producer and creative consultant. Under his watch, M*A*S*H retained its comedic foundation, but gradually assumed a somewhat more serious tone, openly addressing political issues. As a result, the 11 years of M*A*S*H are generally split into two eras: the Larry Gelbart/Gene Reynolds "comedy" years (1972–1979), and the Alan Alda "dramatic" years (1979–1983).
Terry
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I did re-watch MASH the movie a couple years ago. I first saw it in either HS or college, when I was a heathen. Thought it was great then. High-larious and witty.
Watching it recently it was a horrorshow of nihilism and degradation. Really nasty and morally corrosive. None but one or two supporting characters were sympathetic. Toward the end, I had hopes of a re-engineered "director's cut" where they were overrun by Norks or Red Chinese and all were slaughtered to a man.
IIRC, the teevee show in the early years had very little of the nastiness of the movie.
I feel quite the opposite. When people ask me what it was like in Vietnam, I tell them to watch M.A.S.H -- the movie -- and then multiply the insanity and incompetence of the officers by a factor of ten. IMHO, extrapolating from my Vietnam experience backward to cover Korea, I think the movie was pretty much spot on, and the way it was made was a deliberate effort to show the insanity of war.
Compared to the movie, the television show was fluff -- nothing more than light entertainment.
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Does Netflix have "tour of duty"?
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I feel quite the opposite. When people ask me what it was like in Vietnam, I tell them to watch M.A.S.H -- the movie -- and then multiply the insanity and incompetence of the officers by a factor of ten. IMHO, extrapolating from my Vietnam experience backward to cover Korea, I think the movie was pretty much spot on, and the way it was made was a deliberate effort to show the insanity of war.
Compared to the movie, the television show was fluff -- nothing more than light entertainment.
So, in Vietnam, if you wanted a pizza oven, you really did get the supply clerk to cross out "machine gun" on the requisition form and write in "pizza oven"? ;) That was a classic scene.
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I have hazy positive memories of the teevee show, except at the end, which demonstrated that if you put message above entertainment, you get bad entertainment.
QFT.
The early and mid-years of the series were most entertaining, but towards the end it really went downhill . . . when a particularly bad episode aired, you only had to watch the end credits to see the "Directed by Alan Alda" message.
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Does Netflix have "tour of duty"?
DVD yes, streaming no
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So, in Vietnam, if you wanted a pizza oven, you really did get the supply clerk to cross out "machine gun" on the requisition form and write in "pizza oven"? ;) That was a classic scene.
Not quite, but pretty close.
Most people in the Army can probably confirm that there's an official system, the one Lieutenants and junior officers follow, and then there's the real system. For example, when I was in Vietnam my company needed a typewriter, but the official system said we already had one and that was all we were authorized. (True.) So I gradually came up with a box of typewriter parts and a service manual, and I built a typewriter.
Then there was the incident with the Captain, the Jeep, the map and the helicopter ...
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Not quite, but pretty close.
Most people in the Army can probably confirm that there's an official system, the one Lieutenants and junior officers follow, and then there's the real system. For example, when I was in Vietnam my company needed a typewriter, but the official system said we already had one and that was all we were authorized. (True.) So I gradually came up with a box of typewriter parts and a service manual, and I built a typewriter.
Then there was the incident with the Captain, the Jeep, the map and the helicopter ...
:D :D :D
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I feel quite the opposite. When people ask me what it was like in Vietnam, I tell them to watch M.A.S.H -- the movie -- and then multiply the insanity and incompetence of the officers by a factor of ten. IMHO, extrapolating from my Vietnam experience backward to cover Korea, I think the movie was pretty much spot on, and the way it was made was a deliberate effort to show the insanity of war.
Compared to the movie, the television show was fluff -- nothing more than light entertainment.
The first time I saw the movie was during college when the student run theater ran the movie (some clown had cut the film during the opening song resulting in some protests amongst the audience ...) I recall reflecting that, while I was watching the movie, I considered it comedy, but when it ended I regarded it as a tragedy.
My father was a Korean War vet (U.S. Navy UDT) and he loved the TV series. Plus, for what it's worth he was so conservative he'd make Rush Limbaugh look like a commie.
Robert Altman directed the movie and you see his theme of "war as chaos" played out in the movie. Interestingly, a decade prior to "M*A*S*H" Robert Altman was involved in the early production of two WW2 TV series. In the 1963 series "COMBAT!" (set in Northern France after D-Day) he worked on the first half dozen or so episodes, and you can see the early, not-quit-as-developed-yet themes of "war as chaos" (actually a pretty good theme for a dramatic war film) show up in some of the episodes. The other was the short-lived series "THE GALLANT MEN,"
(this set in Italy after the Salerno Landing). Here the theme is more subtle but still present.
IMHO M*A*S*H made full developed adult use of the theme .... less the blood & gore of "SAVING PRIVATE RYAN."
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Not quite, but pretty close.
Most people in the Army can probably confirm that there's an official system, the one Lieutenants and junior officers follow, and then there's the real system. For example, when I was in Vietnam my company needed a typewriter, but the official system said we already had one and that was all we were authorized. (True.) So I gradually came up with a box of typewriter parts and a service manual, and I built a typewriter.
Then there was the incident with the Captain, the Jeep, the map and the helicopter ...
...What happened -- Hawkeye steal the helicopter? ? ? ? =D =D [popcorn]
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. . . Then there was the incident with the Captain, the Jeep, the map and the helicopter ...
Probably not as exciting as using a C-47 that didn't exist to fly yourselves and your booty back to base after raiding Douglas MacArthur's private larder and "liberating" some gourmet foodstuffs . . . >:D
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Where I was stationed in Germany, just to the north of our post was the Baumholder Major Training Area. Just north of there was Idar-Oberstein and the Bundeswehr's Field Artillery School. We also had all 4 Battlions of Artillery from 8th ID's DIVARTY stationed there in Baumholder with 2nd Brigade.
Artillery uses wire commo. The old TA-312's and lots and lots o' WD-1 (Telephone/Teletype wire, 2 strand). However, they would spend a lot of time practicing "Shoot and Scoot" which meant they'd drive to a firing point, align the guns, lay wire to communicate, shoot the mission, and drive to the next firing point and do it all again. (This was so they wouldn't get counter-battery'd had the balloon gone up.)
Having had a commo background, and since I had three commo guys (SSG, SGT, and PFC) along with a pick-up truck, I pointed out that could avoid one all of Top's "Hey You!" details if they were working on a project that LT Scout26 assigned them. Said project being to go drive around in the commo pick-up and scrounge up all the wire left at the various firing points. Yes, the Arty commo guys were supposed to, but rarely did.
Once scrounged they would bring it back to the commo shop and cut it into 3-4 ft sections and then bag it up. Once bagged, they would head over to the turn-in point and get it weighed and turned in. Later they would go back and pick up DR-8's (small spools) and/or RL-159's (big spools) of wire. As replacements for the wire "turned in".
As and aside, MPs rarely used wire and then only in the HQ's sections. However, we used radios, and lots of them.
Upon obtaining the reels of wire. My commo guys would then go door to door to the commo sections of the Artillery battalions and trade Radios for Wire. Upon their return the Supply Officer (me) would sign off on the paperwork to add those radios to our property books as "Found on Installation" property. When my last Company Commander took over (CPT By-the-Book) he made us uninstall the extra radios in his, the 1SG's, the PL's and PSG's vehicles. (We each had four AN-524's and two 442's. Meaning we could talk to four different units and listen-only to 2 others. =D We were only supposed to have one 524 and one 442. =()
We also had 27 extra radios sitting on shelves in the commo shop, which was 27 (plus the extra 30 installed in vehicles) above and beyond what we were authorized per MTOE. =D =D
He made us give them all away/back. Naturally when we went out to the field the next time, radios started crapping out, and instead of being able to swap out a broke one for a working one we had sitting "on the shelf" (Actually they would have been in the commo truck). They just stayed broken until we returned to garrison and then we turned them in to Third Shop and would wait 6 months until they were fixed. The Battalion and Brigade commanders were pissed when they couldn't talk to us anymore. "You guys never had commo problems before!! What the hell is going on down there?!?!" At that point my Company commander threw me under the Bus, because I was the Commo officer and therefore, it was all my fault.
Fortunately the BN Commo officer was a friend (and an all around good guy.) We had given him some of the radios we had acquired in the past to help him out. He told the BN CDR what had happen and reason why we couldn't talk anymore.
Shortly after we came back from the field I was told to have my commo pukes return to their old ways by the BN CDR. While having 10 rolling radio stations and 27 extra 524's was considered "a bit excessive" having a few extras seemed to have been a good practice. Oh, and make sure BN Commo has enough spares also.
Did I ever tell you guys the story of the Ambulance I acquired? (Well it was actually my ass't Motor Sergeant, but it was my name on the blame line/paperwork.)
ETA: Why yes. Yes, I did: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=45721.msg932053#msg932053
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Scout, that sounds like the episode where Frank was commander for a day and, realizing that the "M" in "M.A.S.H." stood for "mobile", ordered the camp disassembled and then reassembled on the other side of the road.