Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: cassandra and sara's daddy on May 29, 2015, 06:32:03 PM
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The silk road guy got double life
That surprised me. I think hes still got a trial in md too
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It's to send a message.
He can at least take consolation in the fact that he will serve them concurrently.
stay safe.
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Sorry got his name wrong
The accusations of murder-for-hire in Ulbricht’s case have become a controversial albatross around the 30-year-old defendant’s neck: despite describing how Ulbricht allegedly attempted to pay for the murders of six people in pre-trial documents, prosecutors haven’t actually charged Ulbricht with those murders. Nor have they produced any evidence that anyone was actually killed. He has, however, been charged with attempting to pay for the killing of his alleged Silk Road employee Curtis Clark Green in a separate case in Maryland—the hitman to whom he allegedly paid $80,000 was an undercover DEA agent.
When Ulbricht was first arrested in October of last year, prosecutors’ claims of his violent acts quickly eroded his popular support among Silk Road’s thousands of users and much of the libertarian community. His alleged persona in the Silk Road’s community forums, by contrast, had encouraged only victimless crime like drug use, and advocated a nonviolent free market philosophy. Ulbricht’s lawyers and family have argued that the alleged killings without formal charges were intended to taint his reputation.
“This is…an uncharged crime, which conveniently requires no proof but goes a long way to prejudice a jury (and the public),” reads a blog post on FreeRoss.org, a website created by Ulbricht’s family and friends. “Basically the prosecution wants [to] smear Ross’ reputation without having to prove anything.”
Despite leaving murder-for-hire out of its charges, the prosecution in the New York case has countered that the murder accusations fall within the broader charge of a narcotics conspiracy. But the defense has repeatedly sought to have discussion of the murder-for-hire cases precluded from the trial. “The mere mention of the ‘murder for hire’ allegations would improperly introduce the toxic issue of violence and murder, generating [irremediable] prejudice to Mr. Ulbricht,” reads the defense’s latest motion filed earlier this week.
Judge Forrest has yet to rule on that motion. In the mean time, those murder accusations will continue to weigh on Ulbricht’s reputation—and keep his defense in the dark.
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http://www.wired.com/2015/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-sentenced-life-prison/
What an absolute miscarriage of justice.
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Yup.
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http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/At-least-20-years-in-prison-awaits-Silk-Road-6293509.php
NEW YORK (AP) — A San Francisco man who created the underground drug-selling website Silk Road was sentenced Friday to life in prison by a judge who cited six deaths from drugs bought on his site and five people he tried to have killed.
I haven't followed the case very closely, but if the bolded part is true, life without parole is appropriate.
ETA: also being discussed here: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=48420.0
Apparently he was not charged with attempting murder-for-hire.
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http://www.sfgate.com/business/technology/article/At-least-20-years-in-prison-awaits-Silk-Road-6293509.php
I haven't followed the case very closely, but if the bolded part is true, life without parole is appropriate.
You'll note that he wasn't charged with those crimes. They just mentioned them a lot to prejudice people, but never had to do any of that icky proving the charges thing.
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Ulbricht’s defense team has already said it will seek an appeal in his case. That call for a new trial will be based in part on recent revelations that two Secret Service and Drug Enforcement Administration agents involved in the investigation of the Silk Road allegedly stole millions of dollars of bitcoin from the site.
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The defense’s arguments about Ulbricht’s character and his idealistic motives were also undercut by accusations that Ulbricht had paid for the murder of six people, including a potential informant and a blackmailer. Those accusations never became formal charges in Ulbricht’s case—five out of six of the murder-for-hires appear to have been part of a lucrative scam targeting Ulbricht, with no actual victims.
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Brought the thread in off the main page and combined them.
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Our government and courts are increasingly being run by leftist activists who are devoid of impartiality and professionalism.
Even those who have conservative tendencies are still devoted to the power of the state; conservative principles be damned.
The end is nigh, or not, or something. Regardless it isn't good.
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That pesky contract killing thing might have blinded folks to all the liberty
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-10-02/news/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002_1_silk-road-witness-murder-federal-agent
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Allegedly and all that. They didn't even charge him with it.
But you...you're okay with being accused of things in court, and having them bias your sentencing, even if you've not been convicted nor even charged with them, right?
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That pesky contract killing thing might have blinded folks to all the liberty
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2013-10-02/news/bal-silk-road-owner-ross-william-ulbricht-allegedly-tried-to-arrange-witness-murder-in-md-20131002_1_silk-road-witness-murder-federal-agent
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The contract killings they didn't charge or convict him for?
Bullshit.
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Hes currently under indictment in md on the charge where the money changed hands.
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Heres a piece that gives some details on the legal jousting in trial
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahjeong/2015/02/03/the-silk-road-trial-that-wasnt/
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I'm shocked, shocked that the government came down harder on unregulated commerce than rape, assault, kidnapping, etc.
While the prosecution nailed him with drug charges, they cared more about the "black market" aspects and wanted to send a message.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/266723681/Ulbricht-Prosecution-Sentencing-Letter
II. The Proliferation of “Dark Markets” Like Silk Road Underscores the Need for a Lengthy Sentence
Ulbricht did not merely commit a serious crime in his own right. He developed a blueprint for a new way to use the Internet to undermine the law and facilitate criminal transactions. Using that blueprint, others have followed in Ulbricht’s footsteps, establishing new “dark markets” in the mold of Silk Road, some selling an even broader range of illicit goods and services than Silk Road itself. Although the Government has achieved some successes in combating these successor dark markets, they continue to pose investigative challenges for law enforcement. The use of sophisticated anonymizing technologies, such as the Tor network, make it difficult to locate the infrastructure and identify the operators behind them.
Curiously, Ulbricht argues that the continuing growth of “dark markets” counsels against factoring general deterrence into his sentence, based on the notion that attempting to deter this type of criminal conduct is pointless. crime, general deterrence interests are a particularly salient sentencing factor in this case. Ulbricht’s conviction is the first of its kind, and his sentencing is being closely watched. The Court thus has an opportunity to send a clear message to anyone tempted to follow his example that the operation of these illegal enterprises comes with severe consequences. While not all may be deterred as a result, that is virtually always the case with any deterrent measure. Cf. Empress Casino Joliet Corp. v. Balmoral Racing Club, Inc., 651 F.3d 722, 728 (7th Cir. 2011) (noting that “deterrence is never perfect”). The point is to deter those at the margins. To the extent that would-be imitators may view the risk of being caught to be low, many are still likely to be deterred if the stakes are sufficiently high.
Accordingly, beyond the seriousness of Ulbricht’s offense, the interest in general deterrence of similar criminal conduct also counsels in favor of a lengthy sentence of imprisonment.
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I think the fact he paid up on a killing where they provided faked photo proof of death is a big factor in the courts sentence. Then there is that other exchange where he solicits a hit and mentions having had another done and the price
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I think the fact he paid up on a killing where they provided faked photo proof of death is a big factor in the courts sentence. Then there is that other exchange where he solicits a hit and mentions having had another done and the price
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Like he would've gotten w slap on the wrist otherwise? You dream. They threw the book at him.
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They tend to do that when you broker dope deals and hire folks killed. Even if you are a white Eagle Scout
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I think the fact he paid up on a killing where they provided faked photo proof of death is a big factor in the courts sentence. Then there is that other exchange where he solicits a hit and mentions having had another done and the price
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What fact? He wasn't convicted of said act.
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He describes it himself.
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Here
Admitted as evidence
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/
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The whole murder for hire thing was discussed some time back. I believe I already spoke my thoughts on that there.
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In this case the murders were a part if the larger criminal enterprise he does not need a separate conviction for murder for them to factor into his guilt here and sentence but without them I doubt life without parole woulda been possible. And his own own words were most damning. The fact that he actually paid up after seeing photo proof finished him. He could win on appeal but I would not hold my breath. And that md case is still hanging
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The point is to deter those at the margins. To the extent that would-be imitators may view the risk of being caught to be low, many are still likely to be deterred if the stakes are sufficiently high.
This would seem to be saying that the point is to impose draconian punishments on those who are dumb enough to get caught, thereby ensuring less competition for those who are smart enough NOT to get caught.
Somehow this does not strike me as an effective strategy for eliminating the [alleged] problem.
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I think the fact he paid up on a killing where they provided faked photo proof of death is a big factor in the courts sentence.
If he wasn't charged with that, his sentence should not have taken that "into account."
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It is part of the larger criminal enterprise . A simple murder would not have got him life without parole, twice. It was under the kingpin law that they charged him.
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It is part of the larger criminal enterprise . A simple murder would not have got him life without parole, twice. It was under the kingpin law that they charged him.
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Nevertheless, they left him grounds for appeal.
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Remember on appeal they can increase sentences as well as reduce so one needs be careful.
Plus he's still got 2 murders he WAS apparently charged with.
Asking to see video of an employee tortured and murdered us unlikely to generate a favorable review
http://www.businessinsider.com/ross-ulbricht-charged-in-2nd-silk-road-murder-for-hire-plot-2013-10
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Remember on appeal they can increase sentences as well as reduce so one needs be careful.
What's he gonna get, two more life sentences?
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What's he gonna get, two more life sentences?
Thats how it gets complex. Does he just appeal those? Or the other charges too? Or run em through as separate appeals and run up the bill?
And should he prevail will they rack him on the pending md charges? My understanding is one of the feds in that case has issues/charges of his own .
Hes gotta allocate resources. I assume he turned down any deals the feds offered.
Hes also gotta worry that someone will knock him off to seal off any chance of him squealing. Everyone wants to play gangsta till the *expletive deleted*it gets real. I am a quarter century almost away from that lifestyle and its still remotely possible for old stuff to bite me in the butt
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In this case the murders were a part if the larger criminal enterprise he does not need a separate conviction for murder for them to factor into his guilt here and sentence but without them I doubt life without parole woulda been possible. And his own own words were most damning. The fact that he actually paid up after seeing photo proof finished him. He could win on appeal but I would not hold my breath. And that md case is still hanging
*blink*
I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years.
Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.
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That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years.
Let the punishment fit the crime... =D
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*blink*
I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years.
Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.
Ed is okay with it if you're allegedly a really bad dude. Screw all that Constitution stuff.
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*blink*
I was under the impression that you can't be punished by the courts for an action without a conviction. That whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. If you can be sentenced for crimes mentioned in passing by the prosecution, we really have shredded the Constitution. That's like the prosecution alleging that the defendant listened to Nickelback while speeding, and the judge tossed the person in for 10 years.
Dude was convicted of running a board that expressly intended to distribute drugs. That's obviously illegal. 20 years max was reasonable, and that's what the prosecution suggested. Throwing life sentence at a dude for running the Silk Road was excessive, even by the recommendation of the prosecution. It'll get tossed on appeal.
Your understanding of what he was convicted of is not congruent with the facts. Or perhaps your understanding of how the kingpin laws work is incomplete. He was in this trial convicted for the hits or attempted hits. They were part and parcel of the kingpin act evidence.
And it was his own words and arrogance that sealed his fate.
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Perhaps this will help. He coulda gotten the death penalty if the prove he killed or had anyone killed. And that is the risk he runs on appeal. If they can pull off a conviction for a murder he could get the death penalty still on appeal.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuing_Criminal_Enterprise
I suspect that's low risk considering how the east coast case is tainted but you never know. They may find a body or someone could still come forth and put one of the 5 killings on him. Ironically his own words would be corroborative evidence.
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And here's a transcript that was evidence in his trial. His attorneys were going to address this in closing.
Not so much
http://www.wired.com/2015/02/read-transcript-silk-roads-boss-ordering-5-assassinations/
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And the first faked murder is a tuff one for him to get out from under
http://www.wired.com/2015/04/silk-road-boss-first-murder-attempt-mentors-idea/
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Update!
https://www.wired.com/2017/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-loses-life-sentence-appeal/
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Maybe I missed it. Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?
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Maybe I missed it. Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?
According to the article it was mostly for solicitation of murder. Though he never succeeded in bumping anyone off (that we know of).
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Update!
https://www.wired.com/2017/05/silk-road-creator-ross-ulbricht-loses-life-sentence-appeal/
Couldn't read the article unless I disabled my ad blocker.
Not gonna happen.
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Couldn't read the article unless I disabled my ad blocker.
Not gonna happen.
Don't know how?
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The contract killings they didn't charge or convict him for?
Indeed. I'm reminded of the Bundys, and why they were found innocent - the prosecution wouldn't be honest about how many undercover agents were with them through the period, and how much 'encouragement' they did.
Same deal here. The failure to charge him with the attempted murders(hiring a contract killer counts) indicates to me that the charges would fall apart in a way to prejudice their cases against him for the actual drug stuff.
I mean, paying a DEA agent $80k to kill somebody is normally a slam dunk, you know?
Maybe I missed it. Was the life sentence for massive illegal drug dealing or was some other charge included?
Drug dealing, he was sentenced under laws intended to put away kingpins. Which, to be fair, he pretty much was.
On the other hand, bringing up the contract killings, for which he's never been so much as charged, in sentencing is a violation I think. Because he isn't able to defend himself against charges that are not brought, even if they're used in sentencing considerations.
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Firethorn, it doesn't matter, being all factual and stuff...
The whole point about certain people excitedly going on and on about Dread Pirate Roberts conviction and sentence is just a proxy for being upset at the idea large numbers of people can simply bypass the state and do as they please. Despite the veneer of factuality, it's really an emotional argument that you're dealing with.
Because of course, lessons were learned, and Silk Road 2.0, then 3.0 will be made better and more secure and anonymous each time the state finds a way to take it down.
The wisdom of using drugs recreationally, or abusing them because one is addicted aside, much like the nascent cottage industry of printing guns, or how the porn industry was one of the largest driving forces in the early days of home VCR's, and the Internet... it shows there's at least the possibility people will leverage technology to find more and more ways to disregard, bypass, and ultimately obsolete the state.
Granted, this can be tougher with things like "roads", but even there might be a solution. There the state can still use the physical threat of force, death, or imprisonment. But it gets difficult if those agents of the state are not getting paid. If Bitcoin, or something like it becomes popular to the point it attains critical mass, and people use it en-masse to avoid taxes, and employers and mainstream businesses start using it...
I'd never be so bold as to say this will one day be fait accompli, but anything that moves the needle even a tiny bit in this direction is very threatening to people with a certain type of personality. Low self-esteem, or other issues, some people can't judge their own self-worth without an external benchmark of some sort. Be it "God" or religion, a parent, and for some the state serves this function.
Some people just instinctively look to the government and the police for that pat on the head and to be told they're a "good boy".
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Because of course, lessons were learned, and Silk Road 2.0, then 3.0 will be made better and more secure and anonymous each time the state finds a way to take it down.
It's already happening. We're already on silk road 7.0 or so, actually. 2 and 3 were by associates of DPR and the feds already had them in their sights, so were taken down relatively quickly(the feds improve over time as well).
The wisdom of using drugs recreationally, or abusing them because one is addicted aside, much like the nascent cottage industry of printing guns, or how the porn industry was one of the largest driving forces in the early days of home VCR's, and the Internet... it shows there's at least the possibility people will leverage technology to find more and more ways to disregard, bypass, and ultimately obsolete the state.
Indeed, it's something of a mixed bag, isn't it? And yeah, I don't feel the need to get into another discussion about what I'd do with the "war on drugs".