Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on June 02, 2015, 10:28:51 AM
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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies
if you feel like an imposter in your fully-working body, this is for you.
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It's a horrible mental disorder.
Probably due to malfunctions in their mental body map, their brains are convinced that part of their body is alien.
Many people with amputations still feel that their body is still intact. For example, a woman born missing her arms could still "feel" every sensation of moving them about, even though she had never had them.
This disorder is probably the opposite of that.
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It's a horrible mental disorder.
And beyond that, I don't really care. The entire media has become one big daytime talk show.
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It's a horrible mental disorder.
Probably due to malfunctions in their mental body map, their brains are convinced that part of their body is alien.
Many people with amputations still feel that their body is still intact. For example, a woman born missing her arms could still "feel" every sensation of moving them about, even though she had never had them.
This disorder is probably the opposite of that.
As is transsexualism and many other disorders. Indulging people's mental illnesses is not a compassionate response.
And beyond that, I don't really care. The entire media has become one big daytime talk show.
Preparing the ground for The Latest Super-Important Civil Rights Cause of Our Time. World War G, World War T, World War WTF.
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I agree that those who feel that some part of their body is betraying them suffer from a mental disorder and probably need a lot of help overcoming whatever is behind that feeling.
As for those that want to become disabled? I'd be more than happy to trade them straight up their not being disabled for my being disabled. I'm pretty sure most other disabled persons would, too.
As for those that want to pose as disabled? I am not sure there is a measure that could be used to contain what I feel about and towards them.
stay safe.
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I will gladly trade my malfunctioning eyes and ears for a good set. Oh, and a full head of hair, too.
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From what I have read, there is cure for this disorder yet.
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Everyone is entitled to their weirdness, so long as it involves consenting adults and whatnot. What people are not entitled to is me caring about their particular weirdness. You want to be a transabled furry attack-helicopter otherkin? Sure. Why not? Congratulations. Don't care as long as you keep it folks who voluntarily follow that particular thing and don't bother other folks with it.
There's nothing wrong with being weird if you're not hurting anyone or anything. Thing is, learn to function in normal society and keep that stuff at home, conventions, Tumblr or whatever. You don't need to foist your pet hobby horse on the entire world and make everything under the sun revolve around that hobby horse.
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Being disadvantaged isn't. Not any more. Now being disadvantaged is an advantage. This is not a good trend.
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Everyone is entitled to their weirdness, so long as it involves consenting adults and whatnot. What people are not entitled to is me caring about their particular weirdness. You want to be a transabled furry attack-helicopter otherkin? Sure. Why not? Congratulations. Don't care as long as you keep it folks who voluntarily follow that particular thing and don't bother other folks with it.
There's nothing wrong with being weird if you're not hurting anyone or anything. Thing is, learn to function in normal society and keep that stuff at home, conventions, Tumblr or whatever. You don't need to foist your pet hobby horse on the entire world and make everything under the sun revolve around that hobby horse.
Eh, some of this stuff is taken well past the level of weird-but-harmless hobby. Some people take it all the way into the realm of mental illness, even to the point of mutilating themselves because of it. That's not harmless. And it's not compassionate of us to encourage or congratulate them.
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Being disadvantaged isn't. Not any more. Now being disadvantaged is an advantage.
Sure, in the hierarchy of oppression that governs social sympathy, which doesn't translate to dollars in your pocket. That'll impact political correctness in ads, sitcoms and books with lots of awards and few readers. The real world, significantly less so.
I've known plenty of people that are into spectacularly weird stuff that are very successful. They keep their personal lives discrete and act like professionals in work environments. People that do everything to broadcast their thing? Generally not doing economically well unless they can make a living pandering to the demographics of that particular thing.
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Sure, in the hierarchy of oppression that governs social sympathy, which doesn't translate to dollars in your pocket. That'll impact political correctness in ads, sitcoms and books with lots of awards and few readers. The real world, significantly less so.
I've known plenty of people that are into spectacularly weird stuff that are very successful. They keep their personal lives discrete and act like professionals in work environments. People that do everything to broadcast their thing? Generally not doing economically well unless they can make a living pandering to the demographics of that particular thing.
There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.
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There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.
This.
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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies
if you feel like an imposter in your fully-working body, this is for you.
"Here's some Haldol. Take it."
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http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/becoming-disabled-by-choice-not-chance-transabled-people-feel-like-impostors-in-their-fully-working-bodies
if you feel like an imposter in your fully-working body, this is for you.
And yet it's still not OK to be transracial:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fafflictor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fblackface.jpg&hash=6d8038d599f56c6b2e6e9177a0f8f23d1fb1f7a1)
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There's a difference between being "into weird stuff" and being mentally ill to the point of self harm. And a significant difference between doing ones own thing, and using the force of .gov and social pressures to harm those who do not affirm your mental illness as a positive thing.
I'm not sure I understand how this relates to what Revdisk said. If someone is mentally I'll to the point of harming themselves, well, that's between them and their doctor.
And I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything about pushing such mental issues as a positive thing in the greater social and political arena.
In fact, I think he said the opposite.
Personally, I'm not sure what your outrage is over people doing whatever to themselves, nor your need to label it all as mental illness. *shrug* You want to expand the definitions of what constitutes mental illness? Guess what? The lot of us are the first getting thrown under that bus, because we all have guns.
Delusional people are delusional. If they won't go seek help on their own, that's their problem. We can't force help on them, and standing on a soap box isn't going to do beans.
And nobody here is disagreeing with you on the fact that delusional people (or people who are not delusional) should be allowed to dictate their BS on others.
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And yet it's still not OK to be transracial:
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fafflictor.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F10%2Fblackface.jpg&hash=6d8038d599f56c6b2e6e9177a0f8f23d1fb1f7a1)
Angry Men Obsessively Slandering-Not-Approving Negro Dyed Yankees
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Angry Men Obsessively Slandering-Not-Approving Negro Dyed Yankees
Written like a "Yassuh, Boss".
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I'm not sure I understand how this relates to what Revdisk said. If someone is mentally I'll to the point of harming themselves, well, that's between them and their doctor.
And I'm pretty sure he didn't say anything about pushing such mental issues as a positive thing in the greater social and political arena.
In fact, I think he said the opposite.
Personally, I'm not sure what your outrage is over people doing whatever to themselves, nor your need to label it all as mental illness. *shrug* You want to expand the definitions of what constitutes mental illness? Guess what? The lot of us are the first getting thrown under that bus, because we all have guns.
Delusional people are delusional. If they won't go seek help on their own, that's their problem. We can't force help on them, and standing on a soap box isn't going to do beans.
And nobody here is disagreeing with you on the fact that delusional people (or people who are not delusional) should be allowed to dictate their BS on others.
Yep, owning guns is exactly the same thing as chopping your dick off, and if we say that one is a mental illness then we're opening the door to the other.
We (societal we here) force people to get help all the time when they are adjudged to be mentally incompetent and a danger to themselves or others. The court where those precedings take place is in my building.
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Yep, owning guns is exactly the same thing as chopping your dick off, and if we say that one is a mental illness then we're opening the door to the other.
We (societal we here) force people to get help all the time when they are adjudged to be mentally incompetent and a danger to themselves or others. The court where those precedings take place is in my building.
"Mentally incompetent" means that someone is unable to make their own decisions. Someone who can navigate society well enough to support themselves is not generally considered mentally incompetent. Since plenty of people have "chopped off their dicks" and continued to navigate society well enough to support themselves, I think calling them all mentally incompetent is a bit of a stretch.
Furthermore, I don't think we (as a society) should bother quiet so much with the "danger to themselves" part. It's one thing to go after someone who is a danger to others, but if the only person getting hurt is the person doing the hurting, well, than, that's their business. Feel free to offer them help/assistance on your own time, but you don't have the right to force help on them anymore than they have the right to force their BS on you.
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"Mentally incompetent" means that someone is unable to make their own decisions. Someone who can navigate society well enough to support themselves is not generally considered mentally incompetent. Since plenty of people have "chopped off their dicks" and continued to navigate society well enough to support themselves, I think calling them all mentally incompetent is a bit of a stretch.
Kind of agree, but it does hinge on how you look at "incompetent." Define it as, "Keeping your stuff together and not bothering anyone else," and yup, you've nailed it. Define it as that plus, "and also do yourself no irreparable harm," and not so much. Courts have often taken that second step due to old age dementia, mental retardation, disability due to TBI, etc. IOW, when it does not involve chopping off a limb or dangly bits.
What ought not be in question is that these folks who chop off perfectly healthy bits and organs (be it genetalia, limbs, whatever) are mentally ill. That requires zero moral calculation, merely Darwinian reasoning. Where morality and ethics come in are folks who make it easier for these mentally ill folks to maim and mutilate themselves. Those sort are no better than scum who take advantage of the elderly, the retarded, and children.
The sad fact is that most folks who go through with maiming/mutilating themselves are no happier than before. Their mental state has not improved, yet now they are irreversibly harmed. Antidepressants have a better efficacy rate helping these folks than going the choppy route.
Furthermore, I don't think we (as a society) should bother quiet so much with the "danger to themselves" part. It's one thing to go after someone who is a danger to others, but if the only person getting hurt is the person doing the hurting, well, than, that's their business. Feel free to offer them help/assistance on your own time, but you don't have the right to force help on them anymore than they have the right to force their BS on you.
Not as simple as that.
Would this policy of non-intervention apply to children(1)? Left alone, many end up hurting themselves, mostly in ways out of sight of the rest of us. The street urchins of Dickensian England and places like Brazil come to mind.
How about adults...with the mental capacity of children?
How about adults with adult mental mental capacity, but it is twisted by mental illness?
I am in agreement that much/most of this ought to be done by private charity, especially after ending the welfare state. But private charity has not the authority to act when the child/child-minded adult/mentally ill adult is unwilling.
Do we let our mentally ill neighbor cut off their arm with a chainsaw on their front lawn or do we act to prevent it even if they might not appreciate our act? Do we let the suicidal teen jump off the bridge to their death in the river below? Heck, most folk would be against letting a cat or dog, though lack of cognitive capacity, jump/fall off a bridge. And that letting such happen when one of us might prevent it as morally reprehensible. Should we value human life less than that of the aforementioned cat or dog?
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Obviously, much of the above is rhetorical and not meant to be addressed by BSL point by point. I think it does show the libertarian, non-interventionist approach is fraught with difficulties when dealing with children, the mentally ill, or otherwise mentally incompetent.
(1) Libertarian solutions break down many times when pushed up against the reality of children and foreign aggressors. We can mock the "What about the children?" crowd, but it is a question that needs answering as children have not the mental capacity of adults.
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"Danger to self" comes from the consensus agreement that in spite of a person's desire to do certain things that can/will cause harm (physical or financial) we (you, me and the rest of the folks whop make up "society") have some sort of moral or ethical obligation to protect them (and us) from themself*.
While individual thinking may have shifted on this, groupthink continues to say it's the way to go.
Is that good, or bad? Depends on where you plant yourself on the personal freedom and personal accountability continuum. Get enough folks to move to your spot and you end up with a consensus.
stay safe.
* - If/when someone self-mutilates or otherwise disables themself they may wind up becoming a financial burden to the rest of us. Regardless of any "right" is it acceptable for someone to dip into my pocket because they intentionally created the situation/circumstance such that they are no longer able to support themself?
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* - If/when someone self-mutilates or otherwise disables themself they may wind up becoming a financial burden to the rest of us. Regardless of any "right" is it acceptable for someone to dip into my pocket because they intentionally created the situation/circumstance such that they are no longer able to support themself?
I have often read the exact same argument in favor of motorcycle helmets.
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It seems obvious that if society is going to step in to require equipment that merely lessens the risk of injury, surely society must also step in to prevent wonton self mutilation like taking a sawzall to your left arm or a scalpel to your genitals.
I don't want to get into the morality of helmet and seat belt laws themselves, just the issue of consistency. I don't see how seat belt laws can logically coexist with legal sex change surgery and presumably now tans-ableism surgery.
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Would this policy of non-intervention apply to children
Is this going to become another circumcision argument?
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Is this going to become another circumcision argument?
Hell if I know. It will probably wind up an argument over using backyard-chicken eggs to make corn bread(1) in cast iron pans over an open fire fueled by floppy disks.
(1) Jiffy FTW.
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Angry Men Obsessively Slandering-Not-Approving Negro Dyed Yankees
Well-played there, Kingfish. :lol:
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Whether or not we impose legal punishments on those who self-mutilate, or those who help them, the doctors responsible for such procedures should certainly lose their licenses, board certifications, etc.
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Whether or not we impose legal punishments on those who self-mutilate, or those who help them, the doctors responsible for such procedures should certainly lose their licenses, board certifications, etc.
Would you be willing to back off a weensy bit and start with changing the laws that relate to how society reacts - both in determining who is a danger to themself and what society does to/for/about/with them?
IMHO if you do not you are just self-mutilating the mental health system (such as it is).
stay safe.
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Would you be willing to back off a weensy bit and start with changing the laws that relate to how society reacts - both in determining who is a danger to themself and what society does to/for/about/with them?
IMHO if you do not you are just self-mutilating the mental health system (such as it is).
stay safe.
Not sure what you mean. Backing off of what, and what did you want to change?
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Not sure what you mean. Backing off of what, and what did you want to change?
Let's start with backing off from "the doctors responsible for such procedures should certainly lose their licenses, board certifications, etc." and then later look at working backward from there as regards your statement that is taken from.
I'm not the one who is trying to change the MH system. You are the one that wants to get rid of the current approach - at least to the issue of self mutilation and what to do about people who do that. So it would seem to be up to you to identify the changes you are looking for.
stay safe.
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Let's start with backing off from "the doctors responsible for such procedures should certainly lose their licenses, board certifications, etc." and then later look at working backward from there as regards your statement that is taken from.
I'm not the one who is trying to change the MH system. You are the one that wants to get rid of the current approach - at least to the issue of self mutilation and what to do about people who do that. So it would seem to be up to you to identify the changes you are looking for.
stay safe.
I would just expect health professionals to help mentally challenged folk to live safely within reality, rather than enable them to contradict reality to their own peril. To adapt to realities they may not like, rather than to adapt reality itself to their mental disorders. That is, if the patient is an able-bodied man who thinks he is disabled, that they should help him to understand the truth, rather than helping him conform to his delusion. The same, obviously, would go for patients who believe they're of another sex. I would also expect that anyone who encouraged or assisted with those sorts of medical procedures (sex changes, and the like) would be seen as clearly violating the Hippocratic oath, and whatever standards are set (or should be set) for the various licenses the state requires for said professionals. (Which is not to say that the state should require such licenses, but so long as it does...)
If anyone asks, just let them know that I propose these changes based on principles that should be obvious to anyone, and not on the basis of any professional credentials. =)
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Can someone splain why gender identity issues are not considered delusions by the mental health establishment? If someone thinks he's a woman, despite the obvious fact that he's a man, how does that not satisfy the dictionary definition of 'delusional'?
I can understand issues in the rare instances where there is genuine physical or genetic ambiguity about one's sex, but most of these cases are someone simply refusing to believe the truth when they look in the mirror.
The MHE recognizes all sorts of delusional tendencies, from literal delusional disorders to delusions as symptoms of other disorders. Anorexia is a good example, the unshakeable but false belief that one is overweight and the resulting self-harm caused by that false belief. How is transgenderism any different than anorexia as a diagnosable mental health issue?
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Can someone splain why gender identity issues are not considered delusions by the mental health establishment? If someone thinks he's a woman, despite the obvious fact that he's a man, how does that not satisfy the dictionary definition of 'delusional'?
Politics and sex. And the politics of sex. And fear of social opprobrium from one's peers.
See, back in the 1970s, the psych community got mobbed by the homosexual activist community and changed its entry on homosexuality in the DSM* based on political pressure and a vote. Notice, you will not find "political pressure," "consensus," or "then take a vote," in the scientific method.
The psych community has not gotten any better and bases many of its conclusions on the sooper-scientific concept of "zeitgeist."
This makes psychology about as "scientific" as "scientific materialism." It also makes those familiar with real science laugh at them.
And do not forget the desire of folk to not be seen as uncool. One way many do that is by being OK with nearly every sexual perversity. Because to be otherwise is to be an uncool bluenose.
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Upending the whole culture and requiring the Orwellian group think of denying biologic gender; all to cater to a percentage of 1% of the population is in a word, insane.
Genetics, hormonal issues at different stages of life, abuse and mental illness probably account for folks who experience gender confusion or ambiguity.
Let them be, as much as possible, but don't ignore reality in slavish devotion to what is really just leftist ideology attempting to deconstruct the culture of the western world.
Transabled? That is so far down the rabbit hole I don't know what to think.
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Upending the whole culture and requiring the Orwellian group think of denying biologic gender; all to cater to a percentage of 1% of the population is in a word, insane.
Welcome to modern society.
Transabled? That is so far down the rabbit hole I don't know what to think.
I'm pretty sure the rabbit has given up trying to figure it out at this point and just gone looking for a saner place to live.
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Welcome to modern society.
I'm pretty sure the rabbit has given up trying to figure it out at this point and just gone looking for a saner place to live.
The SJW/progressive playbook includes pushing more and more absurdity in large part because it is absurd.
In my study of communist societies, I came to the conclusion that the purpose of communist propaganda was not to persuade or convince, nor to inform, but to humiliate ....... and therefore,the less it corresponded to reality the better. When people are forced to remain silent when they are being told the most obvious lies, or even worse when they are forced to repeat the lies themselves, they lose once and for all their sense of probity. To assent to obvious lies is to co-operate with evil, and in some small way to become evil oneself. One's standing to resist anything is thus eroded, and even destroyed. A society of emasculated liars is easy to control.
"A society of emasculated liars" goes a long way to explain modern society.
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This makes psychology about as "scientific" as "scientific materialism." It also makes those familiar with real science laugh at them.
I'm just waiting for them to declare the guy who thinks he's Napoleon to be a perfectly safe and sane transpersonalitite.
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The SJW/progressive playbook includes pushing more and more absurdity in large part because it is absurd.
I see you've also read That Hideous Strength.
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I see you've also read That Hideous Strength.
It's somewhat frightening the grasp that he had on the evil that exists in the human heart.