Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: vaskidmark on June 13, 2015, 02:21:16 PM
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Just one of lots of pieces about the push to send even more advisors to Iraq.
http://learningenglish.voanews.com/content/us-sending-more-troops-to-iraq/2817402.html
What got my brain clicking was a radio talk show this AM that had a goodly discussion about if it would be enough for the advisors to train the Iraqi and associated troops from secure base camps or if they will do better going out with them - not as combatants but to advise in the field as things are happening.
All sorts of history flooded back into my brain. This is exactly where we were before.
And since the current plan is to think about developing some sort of strategy some time it also begins to look like we will either have to repeat the history of Vietnam or admit we are all smoke, mirrors, and bluster. Back in the '60s we were called a paper tiger. What is the fiercest desert beast that we will end up being called a paper version of? (Right now all I can think of is the camel spider.)
stay safe.
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http://www.unprecedentedmediocrity.com/marvin-the-arvn-and-the-iraqi-army/
From my facebook feed this morning. The parallels are striking.
I have said before, in the mid east either go full Empire (roman style) or GTFO. Half measures are doomed to failure.
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I am sort of thinking the South Vietnamese Army was more effective than the current Iraqi Army. The North had a lot more international support.
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http://www.unprecedentedmediocrity.com/marvin-the-arvn-and-the-iraqi-army/
From my facebook feed this morning. The parallels are striking.
I have said before, in the mid east either go full Empire (roman style) or GTFO. Half measures are doomed to failure.
In a single word: Insh'allah.
It's not up to Hadji to do something to make it happen because if Allah wills it it will happen regardless of what Hadji does or does not do. Goes to the question "Why can't Hadji aim?"
Couple that with the mindset that saying you will do X is the same as actually doing X.
And then add tribalism. Hadji will do (within the perameters above) what some infidel tells him top do because his tribal leader told him to. But put some joker from another tribe up front and pretty much everything grinds to a halt.
The linked article fails to take into account that basic training focuses more on turning civilians into members of a cohesive unit than on learning actual skills. Close order drill is not necessary for moving a herd from point A to point B unless you want them to look pretty while doing it. But it does instill the habit of everybody doing the same thing at the same time in the same way. Von Stuben was not all that keen on fighting the British line against line as he was in breaking the individualism of the rebels so that there was only one person in charge.
"Their" Iraqis have a cause and a purpose that involves not just waiting around for Allah to get something done but to bring it about sooner rather than later - all for the greater glory of Allah.
About the only thing I'm not sure about is if Hadji is dropping his rifle or not. Marvin knew he could run faster and bl;end back in as a peasant without the M-16. I'm thinking that possession of an AK, whether or not in the military, is a pretty common thing and a sign of status, thus worth holding on to while you are running away.
Please punch holes it what you think needs having holes punched in.
stay safe.
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Minus the number of casualties, it has strong similarities.
And just like Vietnam, it's all do the mistakes being made in an effort to fight a nice civilized war against savages. Doing so is a sure method to spend a lot of money and lives with nothing to show for it, in fact something worse to show for it as you've left yourself a likely enemy when you finally pull out.
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I often re-read this piece: http://www.meforum.org/441/why-arabs-lose-wars
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And none of it will matter because they don't have the right legal\commercial code, type of religion, or social mores to be like us.
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Sadly Brilliant.
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Doing so is a sure method to spend a lot of money and lives with nothing to show for it, in fact something worse to show for it as you've left yourself a likely enemy when you finally pull out.
Not only that, you've also handed the enemy a tremendous quantity of sophisticated materiel to use against us.
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I guess I would say that the Iraq war didn't start the same way, but it does seem to be ending the same way.
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I guess I would say that the Iraq war didn't start the same way, but it does seem to be ending the same way.
It's like we started sending in advisors after the fall of Saigon :facepalm:
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I guess I would say that the Iraq war didn't start the same way, but it does seem to be ending the same way.
It's like we started sending in advisors after the fall of Saigon :facepalm:
So you are saying that IW I, IW II, and IW III are all separate? I'm looking at them as hiccups along the same long road. Where does that point of view fail? ('Cause I can't see it does not mean it's not there.)
stay safe.
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So you are saying that IW I, IW II, and IW III are all separate? I'm looking at them as hiccups along the same long road. Where does that point of view fail? ('Cause I can't see it does not mean it's not there.)
stay safe.
Um, no .... =|