Nucatola is seen in the video having lunch with actors posing as buyers who are interested in purchasing the body parts of babies how have been aborted. The Planned Parenthood senior staffer notes how abortion procedures are modified to ensure that requested body parts can be collected. She says:
“We’ve been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that, so I’m not gonna crush that part, I’m gonna basically crush below, I’m gonna crush above, and I’m gonna see if I can get it all intact.”
Nucatola also describes how Planned Parenthood abortionists move the preborn child into a breech delivery position so that the body can be preserved while the brains of the child are removed. This account is an almost exact medical description of partial-birth abortions which are illegal in the United States.
Planned Parenthood, though, appears to be concerned internally about the legality of their own behavior, as Nucatola notes how, “At the national office, we have a Litigation and Law Department which just really doesn’t want us to be the middle people for this issue right now.”
The price that the so-called “products of conception” fetch can run from $30 to $100 per specimen, according to Nucatola. That means that Planned Parenthood profits from killing babies by charging the patients, and then from harvesting their corpses by selling them. “A lot of people want liver,” Nucatola tells the undercover investigator, so Planned Parenthood trains its people to use the forceps to leave the abdomen intact. They even maneuver the baby into the breech position, using ultrasound, in order to facilitate their gruesome harvest.
Remind me again why the federal government funds these ghouls?
People who work at clinics dedicated to torturing babies to death, that were originally founded as a means of reducing the black population, are immoral? Who could have guessed? What a completely unexpected development. Surely no one could have foreseen this.
But, but, but...Margaret Sanger...feminist hero...not about eugenics...
1. Fistful is correct that the gop policritters could stop this or at least cut off govt funding.
If they're doing anything illegal, which would be breathtaking stupid as they're usually to always under a significant amount of scrutiny, I await the results of an actual investigation.
Since when does non-profit stop people within the non-profit from making a profit? Just because the organization as a whole does not make a profit means very little.
Since when does non-profit stop people within the non-profit from making a profit? Just because the organization as a whole does not make a profit means very little.
David Daleiden of the Center for Medical Progress said the abortion provider is lying: “Planned Parenthood makes two key admissions in their statement today; first, that aborted fetal parts are harvested at their clinics, and second, that money is exchanged in connection with this.”
He also says Planned Parenthood is lying by insisting it gets “proper consent” from its patients,” and “Planned Parenthood does not make money off the body parts.”
In response, Daleiden produced anonline ad from StemExpress, Planned Parenthood’s partner in the body-parts business, that “advertises 4 different times the financial benefit that Planned Parenthood clinics can receive from supplying fetal tissue with the words, ‘Financially profitable,’ ‘Financial Profits,’ ‘financial benefit to your clinic,’ and ‘fiscal growth of your own clinic.'” The ad has the endorsement of Planned Parenthood Medical Director Dr. Dorothy Furgerson.
I find I have little to say about this, and very little emotional reaction. This story is exactly what any reasonable person would expect from those who spend their workdays murdering innocent children. I suppose we will get to hear some politicians getting emotional over this, as if it were somehow worse than the murders themselves. Which they could stop, if they wanted to.
My guess is that PP does this by patient donation, and the costs charged are for processing and transport. Just like you see with blood banks, tissue banks and organ donation to meet the letter of the law. I bet they have had their lawyers parse this with a fine-tooth comb.
I thought that selling organs was illegal in the US. Or are these not "organs" because they don't come from "humans"?
All true. However, given precedent evidence of staff behavior in PP clinics, I am skeptical of the notion that they are diligent in pursuing truly informed consent.
"Now, this form will let us harvest and distribute the fetus' organs after we've removed it. Please sign on the X."
A deceptive video from a conservative group purports to show a Planned Parenthood official discussing prices for the illegal sale of fetal tissue from abortions. But the full, unedited footage and transcript released by the group undermines their sensationalist claims, showing at least three crucial edits that reveal the Planned Parenthood official was instead discussing the reimbursement cost for consensual, legal tissue donations.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
the Planned Parenthood official was instead discussing the reimbursement cost for consensual, legal tissue donations.
http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/07/14/attack-on-planned-parenthood-3-deceptive-edits/204419
Has the group that produce the video been charged with a crime yet (any crime will do just to make a point)?
Since when does non-profit stop people within the non-profit from making a profit? Just because the organization as a whole does not make a profit means very little.
A Non-Profit =/= NO profit. You can be a non-profit and still show a gain (and a sizable one at that. Even if your last name isn't Clinton.) Year after year, after year. You just can't disburse the profit to "Shareholders", it either has to be re-invested or used to grow and expand your operation.
When an outbreak of noma (a gangrenous bacterial disease of the mouth and face) broke out in the Romani camp in 1943, Mengele initiated a study to determine the cause of the disease and develop a treatment. He enlisted the aid of prisoner Dr. Berthold Epstein, a Jewish pediatrician and professor at Prague University. Mengele isolated the patients in a separate barrack and had several afflicted children killed so that their preserved heads and organs could be sent to the SS Medical Academy in Graz and other facilities for study. The research was still ongoing when the Romani camp was liquidated and its remaining occupants killed in 1944
After an experiment was over, the twins were sometimes killed and their bodies dissected.[51] Nyiszli recalled one occasion where Mengele personally killed fourteen twins in one night via a chloroform injection to the heart.[34] If one twin died of disease, Mengele killed the other so that comparative post-mortem reports could be prepared.[52]
Mengele sought out pregnant women, on whom he would perform experiments before sending them to the gas chambers
Files released by the Argentine government in 1992 indicate that Mengele may have practiced medicine without a license, including performing abortions, while living in Buenos Aires.
And since there is no other way, this thread must be Godwin'd. It would appear that they have picked up right where Dr. Mengele (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele) left off...
It's kind of hard not to Godwin a thread that is discussing gruesome murder and harvesting of human organs.
I suppose we could also compare them just as easily to the Japanese experiments in WWII. Somehow that's not taboo.
How's about Niwdog(1) a thread? When the original topic starts off so heinous and gruesome that even a Nazi might be expected to be taken aback.
(1) Niwdogging? Sounds like "New Dog"
That's like a "reverse Godwin"?
A Non-Profit =/= NO profit. You can be a non-profit and still show a gain (and a sizable one at that. Even if your last name isn't Clinton.) Year after year, after year. You just can't disburse the profit to "Shareholders", it either has to be re-invested or used to grow and expand your operation.
Considering the scope of their operations, I figure it'd be a bit like the boy scouts and many other non-profit organizations:
They're always looking for ways to make a 'profit' or save money, but when they do it's simply used toprovide more benefitskill more babies.
How's about Niwdog(1) a thread? When the original topic starts off so heinous and gruesome that even a Nazi might be expected to be taken aback.
(1) Niwdogging? Sounds like "New Dog"
Considering the scope of their operations, I figure it'd be a bit like the boy scouts and many other non-profit organizations:
They're always looking for ways to make a 'profit' or save money, but when they do it's simply used to provide more benefits.
Does the top paid admin of the BSA make $500K a year?
Does the BSA get Federal money?
I'm thinking comparing the BSA and PP is kind of like comparing apples and tarantulas.
Either it's a worthless blob of amorphous tissue, or it has identifiable characteristics (like organs developed enough to discretely identify) and it's a person.
Or ... there are other criteria for determining personhood.
In the second video released today by the Center for Medical Progress, yet another senior medical adviser to Planned Parenthood of America appears to negotiate the price of selling baby body parts to actors playing entrepreneurs from a start-up biotech firm.
What’s more, in the beginning of the video, she talks about an earlier situation where a company called Novogenix used to come to her abortion clinic to buy specimens: “Heather, a Novogenix person would come to the site and our staff would sign the patients up and get consent. And then Heather would look at the tissue and take what she required. So logistically it was very easy for us. We didn’t have to do anything.” (emphasis added)
This statement would seem to contradict the need of a higher and higher price for doing nothing except letting a technician from another company come into the facility and take specimens. While she seems willing to accept higher prices, Gatter does claim Planned Parenthood is “not in it for the money” and they do not want to appear to be selling body parts.
At the end of the video, like Nucatola, Gatter talks about changing the abortion technique to get intact specimens, changing from a rather violent suction method that would destroy tissue to what she calls an IPAS, which is a reference to a nonprofit company that makes and distributes “manual vacuum aspirators” which would be a less harmful way to get at the internal organs. She said there would be protocol issues with the patient but that she saw no problem with it. She calls it a “less crunchy” way to get intact organs.
At the end of the tape provided by CMP, Gatter jokes about wanting “a Lamborghini” for body parts.
Producing the isolated cells researchers need from donated tissues requires the development of complicated, often unique, research techniques using millions of dollars of scientific equipment. We are hopeful the events of the last few days will not diminish our efforts to support the research community or hinder our partners from continuing their important work.
http://stemexpress.com/statement-of-stemexpress-concerning-recent-media-stories/The two can not be separated. "Well they have it, is it so bad that they are at least doing something with it?" Yes, yes it is, it stems from the fact they have it in the first place.
Just for giggles, let's go beyond the A-word thing and discuss what their partners are doing with the stuff once they get their hands on it.
No, this is not a statement about the A-word itself, or the philosophy behind being for or against it.
The fact of the matter is that folks now have this stuff and are doing/trying to do things with it. Is that good or bad? Is some of it good and some of it bad? What about the philosophy of doing/trying to do stuff in the first place (disregarding for the sake of the discussion where/how they get the stuff)?
More than anything else I would like to hear from the religiously-focused on why they feel this is bad while genetic manipulation in animal husbandry is good.
stay safe.
More than anything else I would like to hear from the religiously-focused on why they feel this is bad while genetic manipulation in animal husbandry is good.
You seriously don't see a difference between animals and people ???
The two can not be separated. "Well they have it, is it so bad that they are at least doing something with it?" Yes, yes it is, it stems from the fact they have it in the first place.
1. At least one atheist and one pagan in this thread who are opposed to abortion.
2. You can't understand why some of us are against murdering children in order to use parts of their corpses for medical experimentation, but not against genetic manipulation of animals? I refuse to believe you are actually that stupid, this must be a troll question.
For the purpose of stimulating discussion: did $deity make the animals any less perfectly than $deity made the humans? (Watch out when answering - the issue of humans being made in the image of $deity - regardless of how you interpret that phrase - is not in play.)
Example: we have horses and we love them dearly, but we put ropes on them and ride them around.Sounds kinky.
So is it okay to keep people as pets, too ???
Sounds kinky.
I base my position on the difference between sentience and sapience. Which blob of protoplasmic goop has the potential to reason and think abstractly and to perceive the world we live in not only objectively but subjectively.
I'm not against research on fetal tissue per se, but I am strongly against the way it is being obtained and marketed as shown in the videos from PP.
Based on her experience, Ms. Johnson says she saw nothing in the video to indicate that Planned Parenthood is breaking the law. At the same time, she said the video exposes a loophole that gives clinics and processing companies enormous latitude in setting reimbursement charges for fetal hearts, lungs and other organs.Saw this link. That second paragraph explains some of the legality if it wasn't mentioned before.
“The law currently states that there can be moneys exchanged as long as they fit under certain categories like preservation, collection, storage, transport, etc.,” Ms. Johnson said. “And the law says there is not a maximum amount that can be charged or a minimum amount but that costs cannot be prohibitive. And that’s very subjective.”
Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/19/abby-johnson-planned-parenthood-defector-loophole-/#ixzz3gaMkYBNI
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter
For the sake of a polite discussion I can certainly see the difference. What I don't get is that those that do see a difference seem to feel totally comfortable manipulating animals for optimum performance but have the heebie-jeebies about the possibility that serious, debilitating, and often early-in-life fatal disabilities might be remediated if not actually cured.
For the purpose of stimulating discussion: did $deity make the animals any less perfectly than $deity made the humans? (Watch out when answering - the issue of humans being made in the image of $deity - regardless of how you interpret that phrase - is not in play.)
Seems some folks are so wrapped around the axle that they cannot even play high school debate team.
Again, that wrapping around the axle thing. Maybe it's you, maybe it's me, but this was posed as a discussion, for the purposes of discussion and NOT to try to change or challenge anybody's beliefs, to go past the method/means of collecting the material and into the difference of manipulating one but not the other.
Humor the everloving heck out of me, OK? Pretend that two sets of protoplamsmic goop that is documented to have come to us from outside this galaxy came into our possession. Pretend that the first set of this goop could be used to change the way animals look and grow and do or do not produce by-products, and that the second set of this goop could be used to change the way humans look and grow and do or do not produce by-products. And that regarding humans we are talking about curing or even preventing genitically caused diseases or reducing/eliminating cancers or even preventing them from forming in the first place. Why is playing with the first set of goop OK while playing with the second set of goop is beyond bad?
Strangely, I learned how to do that separation while studying debate, logic, and philosophy at the feet of the Jesuits, the Loyolaists, and several different flavors of rabbis. All of those folks make the anti-abortionists here look like pikers. But in spite of that they could and would take either side of the discussion for the sake of seeing which side would hold water without resorting to "$deity says it is bad".
In closing - does anybody here know how I feel about abortion? Does anybody here see how the answer to that question should not stand in the way of the discussion I have proposed?
stay safe.
For the sake of a polite discussion I can certainly see the difference. What I don't get is that those that do see a difference seem to feel totally comfortable manipulating animals for optimum performance but have the heebie-jeebies about the possibility that serious, debilitating, and often early-in-life fatal disabilities might be remediated if not actually cured.
So is it okay to keep people as pets, too ???
No. Canadians aren't real people though.
Mmmm ... Jewel Staite
Proof you don't need a soul to be hot.
"She's cute, too. Except I don't think she's all there, you know? 'Course, not all of her has to be."
Wrong girl. She's from Texas IIRC.
It could apply here, with the Canadian gal not having a soul, but now you've ruined it. =(
No. Canadians aren't real people though. There's not enough evidence either way regarding Democrats yet, so I'd propose just storing them in zoos.I heard Wesley Clark has some ideas and wants you to subscribe to his newsletter.
The audit is being scheduled as we speak.
Restraining order has been issued to stop the release of any more videos. Guess PP has friends in high places.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/29/restraining-order-issued-against-anti-abortion-group-video/?intcmp=hpbt1
Restraining order has been issued to stop the release of any more videos. Guess PP has friends in high places.Hey, where is the ACLU jumping all over the judge for censorship, prior restraint and all that?
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/29/restraining-order-issued-against-anti-abortion-group-video/?intcmp=hpbt1
Hey, where is the ACLU jumping all over the judge for censorship, prior restraint and all that?
Restraining order has been issued to stop the release of any more videos. Guess PP has friends in high places.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/07/29/restraining-order-issued-against-anti-abortion-group-video/?intcmp=hpbt1
And restraining order has been ignored:
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/07/planned-parenthood-fourth-video-released-fetal-tissue-120809.html
Interesting new strategy: If Republicans get their way and divert PP funds, PP will no longer be able to prevent abortions, and abortions will increase. Hello bizzaro world.
http://twitchy.com/2015/08/03/new-spin-planned-parenthood-needs-500m-to-prevent-345000-abortions-per-year/
Right. Because there's more money in contraception and "reproductive health" than selling fetal tissue. And the STD argument is risible. You're female, and you think you may have a STD. A PP clinic is going to be your first stop? I'm curious how many of those diagnoses were made for women already seeking abortions.Why sell only one service when you can sell more?
Why sell only one service when you can sell more?
even though PP doesn't own a mammogram machine in any of its clinics.
I just saw that today. There's a lot of stuff spilling out of their now open closet.