Post by: lumpy on November 08, 2006, 08:01:22 PM
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Rise in gas prices first since August
By Gary Richards
Mercury News
Special report: Rising gas prices
Fuel prices jumped Tuesday in some parts of California, the first increase since the great slide at the pumps began in August.
Sure, the average rise was less than a penny in many areas, including San Jose, but several pennies at some stations -- and cause for concern among some drivers who see the recent gas price plummet in the rearview mirror.
``Actually in our neighborhood, the regular price jumped from $2.31 to $2.37,'' said Christian Pape, who lives near Saratoga Avenue and Interstate 280 in West San Jose. ``I probably would have chuckled if I'd seen the one-cent change.''
At the Arco at Jarvis and Branham Lane, the price was up from $2.21 to $2.27. The Shell at Blossom Hill and Almaden Expressway, which went up six cents Monday, had a four-cent rise Tuesday.
Prices reached their peak May 18 at $3.38 a gallon in California. But since late summer they've gone down, down and down. Filling up the SUV that once cost $75 can now be accomplished for under $50. A bargain!
Tuesday's rise was minuscule in most places: San Jose's average rose one-third of one cent to an average $2.363 a gallon; the state average climbed one-tenth of a cent to $2.399.
But fears of a return to $3 a gallon gas have some drivers thinking of drastic action. Georgia Rock of Gilroy ponders taking the car keys away from her two teenage drivers to save gas.
``I already make them carpool to school,'' she said, ``which in their eyes is worse than driving nails under their nails.''
What's up with this recent price blip? Violence in Nigeria, threats from members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to pump less oil and the oncoming winter with its demand for more heating oil.
Some experts say prices fell so far so fast that they have to rebound upward. Others say there's a glut of oil available and that prices will not rise much.
Then there is the election aftermath. Two of every five Americans insist the White House was behind the huge drop in prices and that once the election was over we'd be paying more, according to a Gallup poll last month.
``According to my husband, the theory about the price of gas prices being tied to the election seems awfully hard to ignore,'' Terri Schneider of San Jose said. ``He sees nothing else in the media lately that explains this change. I don't happen to agree, but . . .''
John Amos of San Jose is more direct:
``I'm sure that President Bush and his good friends in the Saudi monarchy will not allow the price of gas to go up much,'' he groused. ``Yeah, and I'm the queen of England.''
By Gary Richards
Mercury News
Special report: Rising gas prices
Fuel prices jumped Tuesday in some parts of California, the first increase since the great slide at the pumps began in August.
Sure, the average rise was less than a penny in many areas, including San Jose, but several pennies at some stations -- and cause for concern among some drivers who see the recent gas price plummet in the rearview mirror.
``Actually in our neighborhood, the regular price jumped from $2.31 to $2.37,'' said Christian Pape, who lives near Saratoga Avenue and Interstate 280 in West San Jose. ``I probably would have chuckled if I'd seen the one-cent change.''
At the Arco at Jarvis and Branham Lane, the price was up from $2.21 to $2.27. The Shell at Blossom Hill and Almaden Expressway, which went up six cents Monday, had a four-cent rise Tuesday.
Prices reached their peak May 18 at $3.38 a gallon in California. But since late summer they've gone down, down and down. Filling up the SUV that once cost $75 can now be accomplished for under $50. A bargain!
Tuesday's rise was minuscule in most places: San Jose's average rose one-third of one cent to an average $2.363 a gallon; the state average climbed one-tenth of a cent to $2.399.
But fears of a return to $3 a gallon gas have some drivers thinking of drastic action. Georgia Rock of Gilroy ponders taking the car keys away from her two teenage drivers to save gas.
``I already make them carpool to school,'' she said, ``which in their eyes is worse than driving nails under their nails.''
What's up with this recent price blip? Violence in Nigeria, threats from members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to pump less oil and the oncoming winter with its demand for more heating oil.
Some experts say prices fell so far so fast that they have to rebound upward. Others say there's a glut of oil available and that prices will not rise much.
Then there is the election aftermath. Two of every five Americans insist the White House was behind the huge drop in prices and that once the election was over we'd be paying more, according to a Gallup poll last month.
``According to my husband, the theory about the price of gas prices being tied to the election seems awfully hard to ignore,'' Terri Schneider of San Jose said. ``He sees nothing else in the media lately that explains this change. I don't happen to agree, but . . .''
John Amos of San Jose is more direct:
``I'm sure that President Bush and his good friends in the Saudi monarchy will not allow the price of gas to go up much,'' he groused. ``Yeah, and I'm the queen of England.''
Post by: Dannyboy on November 09, 2006, 03:00:52 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on November 09, 2006, 03:19:44 AM
Sheesh.
Post by: HankB on November 09, 2006, 03:23:55 AM
Wow. Prices jumped by 2 cents a gallon. No way to explain that but BIG OIL manipulation to help Bush. Just connnect the dots!
Sheesh.
As I'm writing this, I can report that prices at some stations in the Austin, TX area have jumped 14 cents a gallon in the 36 hours since the polls closed on election day. Sheesh.
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 09, 2006, 03:27:48 AM
Why is it that since Katrina, everybody expects some obvious reason for an increase? Gas has been going up my whole life. I'm used to it.
Post by: auschip on November 09, 2006, 04:02:51 AM
Post by: charby on November 09, 2006, 04:19:30 AM
-C
Post by: Art Eatman on November 09, 2006, 04:20:47 AM
, Art
Post by: The Rabbi on November 09, 2006, 04:36:33 AM
? 
Post by: grampster on November 09, 2006, 04:57:56 AM
Post by: lumpy on November 09, 2006, 06:17:49 AM
my favorite line...
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threats from members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to pump less oil
which of course begs the question why did they increase pumping in August in the middle of 'peak' season. Maybe you're right... gas prices always go up in the winter... oh wait...
btw: Nigeria is a member of OPEC for those of you thinking it was only the home of the rich uncle...
Post by: Art Eatman on November 09, 2006, 04:43:27 PM
This is all elementary world news, not rocket science.
Reduction in supply when coupled with a constant or increasing demand = an increase in prices.
Economics 101.
Art
Post by: lumpy on November 09, 2006, 07:53:14 PM
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The majority of Nigerian crude comes to US refineries. The total output is some three million barrels per day. The rebels there have been attacking oil fields and kidnapping foreigners. The country's output is notably reduced.
This is all elementary world news, not rocket science.
Reduction in supply when coupled with a constant or increasing demand = an increase in prices.
Economics 101.
This is all elementary world news, not rocket science.
Reduction in supply when coupled with a constant or increasing demand = an increase in prices.
Economics 101.
hmmm. not what Nigeria is saying...
source: http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=36478
Quote
Officials from the state-run Nigerian National Petroleum Corp. (NNP.YY) defended Daukoru's comments, saying about 250,000 barrels a day of additional output was shut in recent weeks due to "technical" and "operational" issues.
reminds me of Enron...
"This is all elementary world news, not rocket science." maybe you need to read 'oil' news
rebels? ...nice try.
Post by: Preacherman on November 09, 2006, 08:27:58 PM
Oil prices CANNOT be manipulated by US politicians in the way so many conspiracy theorists are suggesting. The facts simply aren't there. Check any reputable, authoritative, knowledgeable source and they'll all confirm this. I worked in the oil industry myself for some years (Shell and BP in Southern Africa), and I know whereof I speak. Art does as well. There's no rocket science in this - it's a simple matter of supply and demand.
To make allegations, suggestions, etc. with no proof, and then scoff at those who know better, is the hallmark of ignorance - not to mention bigotry, silliness and general unfitness to debate. (And yes, there are plenty on all sides of an issue that share that problem!)
If you (or anyone else) wishes to have your points taken with respect, then advance your position AND GIVE SOLID, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE FOR IT. If you don't, perhaps you should think of posting elsewhere, because you won't get too much respect here.
Post by: lumpy on November 09, 2006, 08:48:06 PM
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If you (or anyone else) wishes to have your points taken with respect, then advance your position AND GIVE SOLID, VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE FOR IT. If you don't, perhaps you should think of posting elsewhere, because you won't get too much respect here.
Oh please. that's nonsense. OPEC has every capability of manipulating oil prices in fact Nigeria is one of the worst offenders (do some damn research). Art brought up rebels... Nigeria has had rebel problems for years... suddenly it's a problem for them, they kick the oil production off and on when they feel like it.
For you to come on here as the moderator and tell me that for my points to be taken with respect I need to provide verifiable evidence simply point to your own hypocrasy on the treatment of those that you disagree with on this site. I provided my source to Art to oppose his position that rebels are the cause... I assume he's grown up enough to speak for himself.
Post by: Preacherman on November 09, 2006, 09:50:52 PM
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OPEC has every capability of manipulating oil prices in fact Nigeria is one of the worst offenders (do some damn research)
Sure they're capable - but have they done so in this case? Hardly . . . in fact, they've been trying to raise prices for weeks! Do some research yourself! Information is freely available. Art and I both know whereof we speak, from many years of experience in energy and related fields. You clearly don't.
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For you to come on here as the moderator and tell me that for my points to be taken with respect I need to provide verifiable evidence simply point to your own hypocrasy on the treatment of those that you disagree with on this site.
Would you please explain this comment? Where have I displayed hypocrisy (spelling check, ol' buddy!) on this site? There are many with whom I disagree on this site, but I have no beef with them, because I treat them with respect, and they treat me the same way. If I find someone who doesn't treat others with respect - for an example, please look in your mirror - I call them on it. If they don't improve, they're gone. Period. No nonsense about it.
You're quite right. Art can speak for himself, and he tends to do so very well. I'm sure he'll respond . . . if he thinks you're worth responding to. If you're going to trash someone's comments, someone who clearly knows far more about the subject than you do, then you're not really worth a response, are you?
I'll point out one other thing. Attacking the person, as you've attacked me, is the classic, dead-giveaway sign of someone who doesn't have a case. If you have to resort to ad hominem attacks rather than respond cordially, rationally and intelligently, you aren't hurting me in the slightest - but you're certainly painting a very clear picture of yourself, aren't you? It's like the famous advice given to new lawyers. "If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If both the law and the facts are against you, assassinate the character of the witness!"
Last chance, Lumpy. Substantiate your claims, treat others with respect, and you're golden. If not . . . I can deal with that, too.
Post by: lumpy on November 10, 2006, 06:00:03 AM
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lumpy, your ignorance on various topics is becoming REALLY annoying
you're right... I'm an idiot. Only an idiot would look at gas prices falling since summer only to have them raise the day after election and assume that there is some political motivation by OPEC. Only a idiot would look at the rebel activity in Nigeria that has been going on for years, and then look at OPEC's claim that their problem is that Nigeria's oil production is too high and come to the conclusion that current overproduction a not a rebel problem. Only an idiot would view oil as not only as revenue for OPEC, but a political tool. Only an idiot would see an incoming US legislature that has as a priorty energy independence, a threat to OPEC.
Art has told me that I'm wrong. I've supplied oil industry information that contradicts Art. About the only thing you've supplied is spelling tips.
But then again... I'm just an idiot.
Post by: caseydog on November 10, 2006, 07:19:19 AM
Smart business people learn when they get burned by the market , the worst thing that can happen to a gas station owner is a quick rise and fall without warning , they don't have time to fill their tanks before the upward spike , get caught paying a high price when they fill close to peak price and then the price drops and they have to drop too or have people pass them by for cheaper gas down the street.
So after being burned ,any supply chain depot worth buying from now has a priceline, any gas station that deals with that supplier can call and get gas prices updated hourly and adjust accordingly, and how you ask does the supplier determine the prices that they qoute on the priceline ?? from the petroleum futures markets here and around the world. In the runup after Katrina prices were changing hourly at the pump , were all those pump owners watching CNN and guessing ? No they were just calling for their updates.
So you can like believing it or not , but you are being screwed at the pump by the free market, heck if you are an employed productive adult your own pension plan or bank could be playing a part in your discomfort.
Ray
Post by: caseydog on November 10, 2006, 07:31:50 AM
All OPEC has to do to cause a price blip is do a press release about a conference two weeks from now , the price will be up an hour after the press release on the futures market.Ray
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 10, 2006, 07:40:12 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on November 10, 2006, 07:57:43 AM
I'm still waiting for the price to go up higher than usual.
I'm still waiting for someone to explain how OPEC could manipulate prices this year but must have failed miserably through the late 1990s when gas was around a dollar.
I'm also waiting for an explanation of how a 2.5% change could be considered manipulation.
Post by: Preacherman on November 10, 2006, 08:21:14 AM
Post by: The Rabbi on November 10, 2006, 08:35:38 AM
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 10, 2006, 08:46:41 AM
In any case, perceived slights toward lumpy can be explained away as botched jokes about the President, which was obviously what you meant, anyway.
Post by: Preacherman on November 10, 2006, 09:06:08 AM
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There are many with whom I disagree on this site, but I have no beef with them, because I treat them with respect, and they treat me the same way. If I find someone who doesn't treat others with respect - for an example, please look in your mirror - I call them on it. If they don't improve, they're gone. Period. No nonsense about it.
That was the basic issue, allied to the fact that no evidence was provided (there was no link to his first post, and in any event, it was a polemic viewpoint, not a reasoned discussion. The fact that such a viewpoint appears in the press doesn't make it factual or verifiable, does it?)
The same principle applies everywhere on APS. I'm noticing more than a few incipient ad hominem attacks between posters, even between some of our regulars, who should know better. I'm hoping it dies out now that the election's over. If not . . . we're going to be short a few more users.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on November 10, 2006, 09:34:13 AM
On a serious note, the predictable short-term illogic of markets can be confusing and a lack of understanding of the supply chain in commodities does more to advance conspiracy thinking than almost everything except the fact that, when dealing on a global level, the number of variables involved makes coincidences almost inevitable.
Post by: Dannyboy on November 10, 2006, 09:58:07 AM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on November 10, 2006, 11:30:30 AM
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What's up with this recent price blip? Violence in Nigeria, threats from members of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to pump less oil and the oncoming winter with its demand for more heating oil.
It's all about market forces. Shazaam!! It's all, like, you know, magical, the way things make sense when you know how they work, and like, think about them rationally, or you know, objectively. Yeah!But lemme ask you this lumpy: If George W Bush or Karl Rove or Ken Mehlmen or whomever is pulling strings behind the scenes to manipulate gas prices for political gain, how are they doing it? It's one thing to want to manipulate prices, it's something else entirely to be able to pull it off.
Actually, we probably ought to nail down just who, exactly, is doing it before we get into how he (or she) is doing it.
So lumpy: Name the person responsible for this conspiratorial price manipulation. Then name the method they're able to employ to make it happen.
Perhaps you can also explain to me why, if Republicans are manipulating prices to benefit themselves politically, why aren't Democrats manipulating prices the other way to benefit themselves?