Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: brimic on October 12, 2015, 06:20:54 PM
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Heard about this on the way home. Read it, the man us facing possible expulsion by the pc police tomorrow.
Phone number for university is on website.
http://wisconsindailyindependent.com/iraqi-war-vet-gets-disciplined-for-exposing-a-fellow-students-stolen-valor/
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I know nothing about this university, but what are the odds that someone (either the little *expletive deleted*it liar himself, or another snowflake) complained and the school is going through the motions to say "We looked into it, and handled it." when this hearing is the only actual planned result.
I note that the actual hearing hasn't happened yet, and the Vet put this on blast to the internet. That might not have been the best plan. I know of no school anywhere that doesn't have an appeals process on their little psuedo-judical circle jerks. Once the school actually did something to be outraged about might have been a better time to scream this from the rooftops.
Just not seeing the outrage here I guess. He and another student got into it in the lunchroom. By his own admission, there was loud voices and profanity. Kinda the definition of disorderly.* Disorderly conduct is being investigated. So far, that's it. As much as Stolen Valor pisses me off, every vet in the land isn't a self-deputized vet monitor. The vet is responsible for his actions while telling off the liar.
*Post thought: I wonder what the odds are there's a cell phone video of this discussion somewhere (possibly in the school's possession)? Seems like kids these days video everything.
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Hopefully you are right, but I have a bad feeling that he will get rolled for not drinking the liberal kool-aid.
If it were a student shouting down a veteran for being a veteran, I doubt there would be any disciplinary action.
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This is America, where what you "identify" as is more important than what you are
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This is America, where what you "identify" as is more important than what you are
True, and *expletive deleted*ing retarded. One day reality will bitchslap many of these folks.
Hopefully you are right, but I have a bad feeling that he will get rolled for not drinking the liberal kool-aid.
If it were a student shouting down a veteran for being a veteran, I doubt there would be any disciplinary action.
I might be wrong. Like I said I don't know anything about the institutional culture of this university. But I've read enough internet outrage at this point in my life I read stories like this with a gimlet eye for what is not said. Like the fact that this university hasn't actually done anything yet, except ask for an accounting of his actions. That is actually reasonable if they had a report of two students cursing in the lunchroom.
Also, while I giggle all over those Stolen Valor videos on Facebook where fat sacks get pwoned in malls, it's worth remembering that Stolen Valor is only, actually, illegal if you claim vet status to get something you would not otherwise be entitled to. That is to say, despite what Red Pill wants to think, simply telling this vet that the liar was a Marine Officer is not, actually, illegal. Douchey, morally bankrupt, and worthy of public humiliation certainly. But not against the law. Which puts the would be Avenging Vet in a tricky situation. To wit: If the vet crosses any legal or policy lines while enacting the so richly deserved humiliation, the Vet, not the liar, is in the wrong. That's worth remembering if you run across someone you think is faking it.
I sympathize with the vet, and I hope I am correct and the school is just doing it's due diligence on a reported altercation. However, my inner CSD makes me ask what, exactly, "I was loud and did swear a couple times" means. This guy may very well have crossed the line into violating university policy in his passion.
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As has been said, the hearing is supposedly to deal with the question of whether or not his conduct was disorderly.
There are better ways to deal with someone falsely claiming a status they do not actually posses. I'm betting there is some sort of Honor Code. Or Lonergan could have reported the incident to the administration as possible fraud to see if the d**che was claiming veteran status/eligibility (in which case it would be a stolen valor crime).
From personal experience with general d**chebaggery I know how difficult it is to refrain from imitating your First Sergeant before his third cup of lifer juice. But when calmed down I realize that suggesting that the fraudster stop claiming to be something they are not, on threat of exposure, is possibly a better way of handling things.
For those wishing to gather a little support in dealing with stolen valor/false status claims, I highly recommend http://thisainthell.us/blog/ . They do a great job documenting things, including claiming medals/awards not issued, and are not shy about taking their documentation to the press for public exposure.
stay safe.
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No room for righteous indignation when the cause being defended is a historically cause of the "right".
If he was a Palestinian young man cursing out a Jew he would be lauded for speaking truth to power and the narrative would be different. The school will not defend the honor of the military.
^ insert any typical "victim" and "oppressor" as defined by the left.
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I might be wrong. Like I said I don't know anything about the institutional culture of this university. But I've read enough internet outrage at this point in my life I read stories like this with a gimlet eye for what is not said. Like the fact that this university hasn't actually done anything yet, except ask for an accounting of his actions. That is actually reasonable if they had a report of two students cursing in the lunchroom...
I sympathize with the vet, and I hope I am correct and the school is just doing it's due diligence on a reported altercation. However, my inner CSD makes me ask what, exactly, "I was loud and did swear a couple times" means. This guy may very well have crossed the line into violating university policy in his passion.
And that is how one loses cultural skirmishes...then battles...and then the war. That is how decent men like the cop who shot "Gentle Giant Mike" Brown get hounded into hiding and the Ferguson police chief fired. That is how we get decent small business owners' businesses destroyed by worthless deviants and their fellow travelers. That is how we get illegal aliens paying in-state tuition. Whether or not Lonergan is pure as the driven snow is of little matter in these days of cultural strife. The enemy surely does not require unsullied champions or causes.
You may not be interested in the war for the culture, but it is interested in you. And it won't be fought along Marquis of Queensbury rules, with traceable logic, references to data, and the like. It will be fought with appeals to emotion & tribe and by demonstrating power via rallying large numbers of irate and potentially violent supporters.
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I hope someone will follow this and report the results of the
kangaroo court tribunal.
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True, and *expletive deleted*ing retarded. One day reality will bitchslap many of these folks.
This is why I'm rooting for zombies one day....
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This is why I'm rooting for zombies asteroid one day....
Fixed! ;)
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Fixed! ;)
Nope, zombies.
Asteroids are too indiscriminate on whom they take out.
The victim class and the left are natural prey for zombies.
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I like the part where he can only be on campus to attend classes. Sounds like they are going to try and railroad him.
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"Was told his lawyer cannot be present at the tribunal" What the everlovin' frakk?
I know it's a non-judicial university tribunal, but to tell an attorney he can't be present? I see many sparks and large amounts of not-good from that alone. Most attys I know would take that as a personal challenge to hang the university by its own petard. If the attorney is also a vet the "gonna rub your face in it" setting will automatically dial to 11.
Brad
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"Was told his lawyer cannot be present at the tribunal" What the everlovin' frakk?
I know it's a non-judicial university tribunal, but to tell an attorney he can't be present? I see many sparks and large amounts of not-good from that alone. Most attys I know would take that as a personal challenge to hang the university by its own petard. If the attorney is also a vet the "gonna rub your face in it" setting will automatically dial to 11.
Brad
That occurred to me as well. The very fact that they told him that an attorney cannot be present would be a tip off to me that I would want and absolutely insist than an attorney present.
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That occurred to me as well. The very fact that they told him that an attorney cannot be present would be a tip off to me that I would want and absolutely insist than an attorney present.
Ditto.
A goodly number of years ago I briefly worked for a quasi-public agency. One of the members of the board of commissioners took an immediate dislike to me, both because I was the wrong color and because I didn't seem to show him the respect he seemed to think he was due. (In other words, I treated him the same as I treated the other commissioners, politely and professionaly, but no groveling or genuflecting.) So he trumped up some charge against me and I was told -- with approximately 25 hours notice -- that I was to be the subject of a disciplinary hearing. The hearing was to be conducted behind closed doors.
I did some quick research and found that, although the default for personnel matters was privacy, I had the option of a public hearing. So I immediately notified the board's secretary that I was formally requesting a public hearing, and that I was requesting sufficient time to engage an attorney.
I'm still waiting for the hearing to be convened ...
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"Was told his lawyer cannot be present at the tribunal" What the everlovin' frakk?
I know it's a non-judicial university tribunal, but to tell an attorney he can't be present? I see many sparks and large amounts of not-good from that alone. Most attys I know would take that as a personal challenge to hang the university by its own petard. If the attorney is also a vet the "gonna rub your face in it" setting will automatically dial to 11.
Brad
Yes, I was a "witness" at one of these things in grad school when one of my office mates was brought up for yelling at his advisor. She used the "hates women" shtick, and he was not allowed to have an attorney and was also allowed very limited testimony (him and his witnesses) compared to the professor and the University.
End result, he was kicked out one month before his dissertation defense.
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The victim class and the left are natural prey for zombies.
Not really. Zombies need prey with brains.
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http://fox6now.com/2015/10/13/they-banned-me-from-campus-confrontation-lands-college-student-in-trouble/
Seems like the school canceled the hearing. I wonder if that's it, or are they waiting for attention to die off?
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"Was told his lawyer cannot be present at the tribunal" What the everlovin' frakk?
I know it's a non-judicial university tribunal, but to tell an attorney he can't be present? I see many sparks and large amounts of not-good from that alone. Most attys I know would take that as a personal challenge to hang the university by its own petard. If the attorney is also a vet the "gonna rub your face in it" setting will automatically dial to 11.
Brad
The no attorney thing is almost boilerplate in these type of actions. And typically your " support person" must remain silent as well
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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"Was told his lawyer cannot be present at the tribunal" What the everlovin' frakk?
I know it's a non-judicial university tribunal, but to tell an attorney he can't be present? I see many sparks and large amounts of not-good from that alone. Most attys I know would take that as a personal challenge to hang the university by its own petard. If the attorney is also a vet the "gonna rub your face in it" setting will automatically dial to 11.
Brad
As a law school dropout I spent five minute or so researching this last night. It seems like the issue of whether the Due Process Clause applies (including "you have the right to an attorney") is somewhat vague in the case of university disciplinary hearings. In no small part muddied by universities themselves. Obviously universities are going to make that argument and I'm not sure I agree with them. But there is case law to support the argument that you don't get an attorney at a university tribunal. See CSD's comment.
A good excerpt from an article I found.
Students facing possible suspension or expulsion from public colleges and universities are entitled to due process because liberty and property are clearly at stake. This raises the question of precisely what process is due. As noted, because the liberty and property interests involved in suspension or expulsion from institutions of higher education are much smaller than those posed by criminal conviction, less procedural protection is required in a campus tribunal than in a court of criminal law.
The consensus established by the courts is that, at the absolute minimum, students in campus disciplinary cases are entitled to have notice of the charges against them, a disclosure or explanation of the evidence behind the charges, and an opportunity to contest this evidence.
My comment: Notice the absence of the right to an attorney.
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http://fox6now.com/2015/10/13/they-banned-me-from-campus-confrontation-lands-college-student-in-trouble/
Seems like the school canceled the hearing. I wonder if that's it, or are they waiting for attention to die off?
The linked site is riddled with adware. Phone-locking popup ad when I followed it.
Brad