Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: douglasbeale on January 04, 2016, 10:15:34 AM
-
Can I find a revolver that's in production today that uses the same .45 colt cartridge as the Winchester 1892 short (model 534162141)?
-
Hmm, this question seems very familiar to me today....
Yes. Several. Colt and Ruger both make SA revolvers chambered in .45 colt. Pietta, Uberti, and Cimarron make Clones of the Colt. Taurus makes a DA revolver chambered in .45 colt (and .410). There's probably some I'm missing.
-
There's probably some I'm missing.
Is the 45 colt Mateba 6 Unica still in production?
-
Is the 45 colt Mateba 6 Unica still in production?
No, Curses. A Mateba is one of my "I will own before I die" guns. None have been made for years. Also technically that gun was a .454 Casull. It can fire .45 Colt the way a .357 can fire .38 special.
Although a Rhino in .45 Colt would be pretty cool. (also doesn't exist)
ETA: Note to OP, if you want to include the .454's, (i.e not chambered in .45 Colt, but can fire it) there are a bunch of revolvers out there that can do it.
-
Ruger and Smith also make DA revolvers in .454 Casull/.45 Colt.
Oh, and an official unofficial Welcome To The Forum.
Brad
-
But where will you find 30-caliber assault clips for it?
-
Hmm, this question seems very familiar to me today....
Yes. Several. Colt and Ruger both make SA revolvers chambered in .45 colt. Pietta, Uberti, and Cimarron make Clones of the Colt. Taurus makes a DA revolver chambered in .45 colt (and .410). There's probably some I'm missing.
I did find some nice looking models by Uberti and were at the price point I can actually afford, but they all said they use .45 colt "long"... That's a different cartridge from the one in the Winchester?
(I'm sorry I know nothing about guns)
-
Hmm, this question seems very familiar to me today....
I asked a friend on FB this morning and he PM'ed me to post here. We may have a mutual friend?
-
I did find some nice looking models by Uberti and were at the price point I can actually afford, but they all said they use .45 colt "long"... That's a different cartridge from the one in the Winchester?
(I'm sorry I know nothing about guns)
Nope, .45 Colt <==> .45 Long Colt. Is same-same. As I recall the "Long" moniker got added to differentiate it from .45 Schofield ammo. Either way It's the same stuff.
I asked a friend on FB this morning and he PM'ed me to post here. We may have a mutual friend?
Mayhap we do.:D
Welcome aboard, and if you buy a Uberti, be sure to share pics.
-
Dredging the mental archives I remember there being a shorter version of the .45 Colt. I want to say it was called the .45 Goverment or somesuch, but don't quote me on that.
Brad
-
I don't have time to look it up, but there were definitely two .45 revolver cartridges in service at the same time. I just forget exactly what the short one was called.
-
Dredging the mental archives I remember there being a shorter version of the .45 Colt. I want to say it was called the .45 Goverment or somesuch, but don't quote me on that.
Brad
I did see a "Government" when I was looking at the amo site... All a little confusing to a newbie like me :)
-
I don't have time to look it up, but there were definitely two .45 revolver cartridges in service at the same time. I just forget exactly what the short one was called.
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm
The debate over whether there is a .45 "Long" Colt cartridge is an on-going one that has been active for probably 75 years. Elmer Keith alluded to the arguments many years ago when he wrote "...Some newcomers to the game claim there is no such animal, but if they had shot the short variety that Remington turned out in such profusion before, during and after World War I they would see there was some basis in referring to the .45 Colt as the .45 Long..." (Sixguns, page 285)
...But it is plainly marked ".45 Colt Government". The headstamp on the cartridges is ".45 Colt" ...BUT these are SHORT .45 Colts! The headstamp is the same as the longer .45 Colts, even down to the "W" on the primers.
These are not S&W or Schofield cartridges. The rim diameter is the same as the long .45 Colts, which is smaller than the Schofield rim diameter. These are true .45 Short Colts. The cartridge is listed in Cartridges of the World on page 306 as ".45 Colt - .45 Colt Government".
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.leverguns.com%2Farticles%2Ftaylor%2Fshortcolt%2F45sc3.jpg&hash=6f0ca238d425e3c0e60bbf132e017b8e7df9164b)
Follow the link for the full article.
-
Can I find a revolver that's in production today that uses the same .45 colt cartridge as the Winchester 1892 short (model 534162141)?
The actual 1892 Winchester was never chambered in .45 Colt. Rossi currently makes a R92 which is a nice copy of the 92 in .45. Several other companies may also make '92 copies in .45.
Many copies of the Colt 1873, or SAA, are available made by Uberti, Pietta, and a few others, and are available in .45 Colt; one of the original calibers the SAA was made in.
When the .45 Colt cartridge first appeared it was a balloon-head cartridge and the rim was thin, and the heat of firing would soften the metal. This made the action of extracting the spent .45 case from a rifle a bit iffy (soft cartridges that jammed easily in hot rifles had been a factor in the 1876 defeat of George Armstrong Custer at the Little Bighorn) so Winchester and other makers had decided not to chamber repeater rifles in this cartridge.
I am not sure what you mean by "Winchester 1892 short (model 534162141)." Are you refering to carbine length 1892s or the short rifle style? IIRC 1892s were all chambered in pretty much the same calibers (.44-40, .38-40, .32-20, etc) irregardless as to the style of the rifle.
-
I am not sure what you mean by "Winchester 1892 short (model 534162141)." Are you refering to carbine length 1892s or the short rifle style?
I'm looking at this rifle: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=022C&mid=534162
and this revolver: http://www.basspro.com/Uberti-45-Colt-1873-Cattleman-Hombre-Revolver/product/10218317/
My question is if I bought the both of them do they use the same cartrige?
-
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/45_short_colt.htm
...
Follow the link for the full article.
Many thanks. I knew about the Schofield and the reason why the Army settled on that rather than the .45 (Long) Colt as the standard-issue cartridge for the M1873, but I didn't know that there was an additional .45 (Short) Colt separate from the .45 Schofield.
-
I'm looking at this rifle: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=022C&mid=534162
and this revolver: http://www.basspro.com/Uberti-45-Colt-1873-Cattleman-Hombre-Revolver/product/10218317/
My question is if I bought the both of them do they use the same cartrige?
Yes, they will. The designation of the rifle refers to the barrel length, not the cartridge. A "short rifle" is shorter than the full-length rifle in the same model line, but longer than a "carbine." The one you're looking at has a 20" barrel. The carbine version has, IIRC, a 16" barrel. Original 1892s had barrels up to 24" in length.
-
I'm looking at this rifle: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=022C&mid=534162
and this revolver: http://www.basspro.com/Uberti-45-Colt-1873-Cattleman-Hombre-Revolver/product/10218317/
My question is if I bought the both of them do they use the same cartrige?
Any modern production firearm labeled ".45 Colt" or ".45 Long Colt" will be chambered in the same cartridge.
Brad
-
You guys are awesome! Everyone that posted..., thank you very much.
-
I'm looking at this rifle: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=022C&mid=534162
and this revolver: http://www.basspro.com/Uberti-45-Colt-1873-Cattleman-Hombre-Revolver/product/10218317/
My question is if I bought the both of them do they use the same cartrige?
That Is the "SHORT RIFLE." It is available in the same .45 caliber as the uberti, yes. The rifle will be made by Miroku and they make beautiful guns...I have two of their products, the most recent a 1892 deluxe takedown 1892 in .32-20 with crescent buttplate.
If you buy the gun referenced it will cost $$$$ but you will love it.
-
I did find some nice looking models by Uberti and were at the price point I can actually afford, but they all said they use .45 colt "long"... That's a different cartridge from the one in the Winchester?
(I'm sorry I know nothing about guns)
See, I have the opposite problem. I have a revolver in .45 Colt, but I don't think the lever action in that caliber exists...
Oh, SURE, you can link to them, but try to find one out in the wild.... :laugh:
-
Henry and Marlin also make lever guns chambered in .45 Colt.
Brad
-
I'm looking at this rifle: http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=022C&mid=534162
and this revolver: http://www.basspro.com/Uberti-45-Colt-1873-Cattleman-Hombre-Revolver/product/10218317/
My question is if I bought the both of them do they use the same cartrige?
Beautiful rifle. The 92s are my favorite lever rifles.
You have the right idea about using a shared cartridge with a revolver, though outside of Cowboy Action Shooting, .357 or .44 magnum combinations seem to be a lot more popular.
-
You have the right idea about using a shared cartridge with a revolver, though outside of Cowboy Action Shooting, .357 or .44 magnum combinations seem to be a lot more popular.
Also more choice in loads and, at times, easier to find if you are limited to Mom&Pop type ammo suppliers.
Brad
-
Mayhap we do.:D
It's possible, it's possible ... Thanks for taking good care of Doug for me. I had no doubts I'd sent him to the right place.
-
I have a cheaper Cimarron Frontier single action army in 45 LC. It is on paper, but the sights are not quite true. Fun to shoot. I think I prefer the 357 mag single action revolvers though. I think the Cimarron guns are made by Uberti and Pietta and assembled/fixed up by Cimarron. Ruger has some stainless steel versions that are really nice looking.
I would agree that full power and self defense ammo in 357 mag and 44 mag are much easier to find. Most 45 LC ammo I see is cowboy action loads.
Uberti does make a 12 shot single action army revolver in 22 LR that is a fun pistol to shoot.
-
Uberti does make a 12 shot single action army revolver in 22 LR that is a fun pistol to shoot.
There's just something wrong about a 12-shot six-shooter ...
Like one of Ahnold's first movies, in which his schtick (aside from his name, "Handsome Stranger") was a 7-shot six-shooter
-
I do have to ask the OP. You stated:
(I'm sorry I know nothing about guns)
So are you jumping in feet first to Cowboy Action Shooting?
Or are you just looking to get a sidearm and long gun that won't raise any red flags in (presumably) Connecticut ?
BTW, Welcome to APS and do stick around. There's probably a couple centuries of knowledge (and not just about guns) that roam these wilds.
-
There's just something wrong about a 12-shot six-shooter ...
Like one of Ahnold's first movies, in which his schtick (aside from his name, "Handsome Stranger") was a 7-shot six-shooter
Well, when you have to load/unload each round like a normal single action army revolver, 12 shots is nice.
-
He said APS is in his Cowboy shooting folder now and he will be back from time to time. He was impressed.
-
He said APS is in his Cowboy shooting folder now and he will be back from time to time. He was impressed.
Well, He's new. We have time to turn that around.
-
Well, He's new. We have time to turn that around.
Yup, I have faith in you guys :laugh:
-
Two Words - Mare's Leg.
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/824
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiappafirearms.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F920-182large.jpg&hash=46db4e8c990c3ce6956f89b38926249051848c91)
-
Two Words - Mare's Leg.
http://www.chiappafirearms.com/product/824
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chiappafirearms.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F920-182large.jpg&hash=46db4e8c990c3ce6956f89b38926249051848c91)
Oh cute, a "Take-down" Mare's Leg. :laugh:
-
The rifle will be made by Miroku and they make beautiful guns...
I have been reading the reviews and can see that hands down that Miroku has the best look and feel, and the only one with "Winchester" stamped on it and that's something I feel like I have to have. The Rossi gets great reviews in lever action and clustering (if I'm using the right term), but the workmanship is a little less than perfect. As with anything you have to pay for quality. =) I cannot find one online so I will go to a local gun shop who is listed as a dealer and see if they can find one for me.
-
1892 deluxe takedown 1892
Did you get the big or the little hoop in the finger lever? Any idea of what utility that big hoop has? I like the look of little one better, but maybe I'll miss out on some functionality?? Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
-
I don't have time to look it up, but there were definitely two .45 revolver cartridges in service at the same time. I just forget exactly what the short one was called.
Are you maybe thinking of the .45 AR?. The "Auto Rim?"
Both it and the .45ACP chambered in the M1917 revolver, but of course the .45 AR couldnot be used in the M1911 semi auto.
The .45 Schofield has already been discussed.
-
Did you get the big or the little hoop in the finger lever? Any idea of what utility that big hoop has? I like the look of little one better, but maybe I'll miss out on some functionality?? Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
The big hoop is a big help when cycling the action with gloves on- not really necessary. WildWestguns.com has a less exaggerated large loop, though not sure if they have them for 92s.
You can spin it around to cycle the action, but its incredibly stupid and unsafe gun handling.
The Miroku/Browning 92s are of far better quality than Winchesters or Rossi/taurus.
-
Did you get the big or the little hoop in the finger lever? Any idea of what utility that big hoop has? I like the look of little one better, but maybe I'll miss out on some functionality?? Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
Mine has the "pistol grip" (I believe that is what it's called; it isn't straight like the carbines it has a curve -- as does the lever loop) and the normal size lever loop.
Large loops help accomadate winter use with gloves.
Brimic's comment; "You can spin it around to cycle the action, but its incredibly stupid and unsafe gun handling," is absolutly right. You really do not want to do this -- and safety is not to only reason.
If you take the standard 92 action and load it, and "spin" it, like Rooster Cogburn, or Chuck Connors as "The Rofleman" did, centrifical force applies, and as the round cycles through this force tends to force the nose of the round (ie., "bullet") up wards, out of the action -- and into the path of the bolt, which will now close on the bullet, and jam, and this may actually hurt your wrist or fingers. The 1873 model carrier block would actually have been better designed for this type of silliness.
So how did The Rifleman accomplish his spin, if physical forces ought to prevent it? His 92 -- or more accuratly, the several Winchesters and El Tigres (a Spanish copy) were modified by the show's prop department with a extra screw set into the receiver to help guide the round and prevent it from flipping out. It was a TV show/movie gimmick--as was the other screw in Connors' rifle that tripped the trigger.
Enjoy the movies and TV shows .... but let us treat our real guns with real ammunition with respect and allow them to function safely and as (in this case) John Moses Browning intended.
-
Did you get the big or the little hoop in the finger lever? Any idea of what utility that big hoop has? I like the look of little one better, but maybe I'll miss out on some functionality?? Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
Whoa, now! Come into APS, ask questions about classic guns and chew the fat? OK. Accuse members of spinning and waving guns around all willy-nilly? NOT OK. (1)
First, I don't wave rifles and carbines about like an agitated French baker waving a bagette.
Second, it is my wife's Rossi Winchester 92 clone in .44mag and she sure wouldn't appreciate anyone being so care free with her prettiest long gun.
Third, ...
Oh, wait. You probably mean the character Rooster Cogburn played by John Wayne.
(https://johnsondon23.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/hacf1457e.jpeg)
(1) I may have just been triggered!
-
Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
As someone who tried to do that with an unloaded Model 94, all I can say is that John Wayne and Chuck Conners had incredibly long arms...
(I think I still have the dent in my forehead.)
-
I do have to ask the OP. You stated:
So are you jumping in feet first to Cowboy Action Shooting?
Or are you just looking to get a sidearm and long gun that won't raise any red flags in (presumably) Connecticut ?
BTW, Welcome to APS and do stick around. There's probably a couple centuries of knowledge (and not just about guns) that roam these wilds.
I've never tried, but I might enjoy Cowboy Action Shooting, and will give it a try. Don't know nothing about red flags...
Honestly, and you guys will get a laugh out of this, I want to be a cowboy when I grow up. I always have. I have a cowboy hat, and just ordered a new pair of Lucchese boots- they should arrive today.
I've been thinking about buying a gun for some time. I have no need to spray bullets all over the place. I just might like to shoot some targets from time to time.
When I first started looking I was looking at antiques of the only guns I would ever consider, guns from cowboy movies, but the cost just puts me out of the game. Then I saw that the Winchester 1892 was still in production... I like old things, but I have some very nice reproductions of furniture that are every bit as nice as my antiques, and are some of favorite pieces.
As far as the .45 colt (or .45 long colt) ...well it just sounds better to me than the 357 mag or 44. I'm willing to pay extra for that I think.
I have a lot of time, and a little money, but few hobbies so this is something I can try, and if I don't like it, I'll display the firearms in a nice case or cabinet and enjoy looking at them.
Thanks for the Welcome!
-
but the cost just puts me out of the game.
Yar.
Some of the old Winchesters are works of art.
The rise and interest in CAS has really driven the prices up.
-
Hey Doug, by "clustering" I think you mean "grouping". The pattern of the shots on the target? Yes, big hoop is for gloves. We should go shoot a few of my toys sometime. Nothing cowboyish though. If you want to come to Manchester we can shoot some handguns. Wallyworld for rifles.
-
Did you get the big or the little hoop in the finger lever? Any idea of what utility that big hoop has? I like the look of little one better, but maybe I'll miss out on some functionality?? Is it really possible to spin it around, cock it, and get the round chambered correctly (Like Rooster did)?
Utility? UTILITY?
John Freaking Wayne did it that way, that's all the dadgum utility you need. =D
I've got a Henry .22 with the straight stock and big loop, works great with gloves on and adds 33.8% coolness factor to the rifle as well as making rabbits and other less edible critters 18% deader.
-
adds 33.8% coolness factor to the rifle as well as making rabbits and other less edible critters 18% deader.
I knew there must be some reason!
Love the look of the Henry abustulity beautiful rifle.
-
Welcome aboard Douglas!
-
I knew there must be some reason!
Love the look of the Henry abustulity beautiful rifle.
I agree. I would love to get one of the silver Henry's 22 rifles that is fancied up. They look great.
However, on the bigger bore Henry rifles, I really don't like the tube loading design. I like being able to load on the fly like a Winchester/Marlin.