Post by: Dannyboy on March 05, 2005, 06:58:58 AM
I DARE YOU TO TRY THIS
Filed under:
* General
* Current events - national
mostly cajun @ 6:35 pm
Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international law, or any of that nonsense.
Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for you and your entire family.
Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.
Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc. Procreate abundantly.
Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible reproductive behavior with, It is a cultural United States thing. You would not understand, pal.
Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper.
Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do likewise.
Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.
Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal, presence in Mexico.
Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.
Good luck! Youll be demanding for the rest of time or soon dead. Because it will never happen.
It will not happen in Mexico or any other country in the world&except right here. Land of the naive.
God Bless AmericaShe needs it.
Found this a short while ago. Too true.
Post by: jefnvk on March 05, 2005, 07:04:53 AM
Post by: Michigander on March 05, 2005, 07:31:29 AM
Quote
Why would I want to do that?
Excellent question jefnvk. Excellent question indeed.
Post by: Standing Wolf on March 05, 2005, 11:15:07 AM
If I wanted to go to Mexico, I'd just go to L.A.
Post by: Darkmind on March 05, 2005, 11:52:35 PM
Quote
If I wanted to go to Mexico, I'd just go to L.A.
Sickening just sickening.
Post by: Jspy on March 09, 2005, 03:07:16 PM
Post by: Suoiruf Selyts on March 09, 2005, 03:35:48 PM
Better yet, let's do this:
Let's enter into a war 160 years ago with a sovereign nation, really for no other reason than to expand our borders, resulting in the expropriation of 1/3 of their territory. Let's import our languages (like German in Central TX), let's try and act as if we haven't become the instant landlords of people that we despise, and let's make no attempt to camouflage our distaste for their culture, appearance, language, and reproductive habits. Let's not even make an attempt to learn a language that isn't always spoken well by the indigenous peoples among the European and half-European ones who have become our charges, and let's not even bother to concern ourselves with the indigenous languages of the people, the territories of whom we have taken as war booty. In fact, let's kidnap their children, let's raise them in our foreign manner, and let's slap them across the face when they speak the languages of their natural parents until we've managed to make them feel bad for not being born looking like us.
Let's try and deny the fact that the bottom left corner of this vaguely rectangular nation ever belonged to anyone else, that other languages were ever spoken there, and let's act like the righteously indignant ones when 160 years of passed time haven't done enough to obliterate truths that we might not like to admit, even unto ourselves.
Borders are artificial when people are hungry, no matter how many barriers you erect and how many people you line up to stand watch against illegal immigration. It's bad enough that you deride them for arguably valid but culturally myopic reasons. But the fact that so many of you would like to think of the Southwest as if it were a province of Sweden, something that conveniently popped up out of the blue to take our landthirsty excess of immigrant citizens, is absolutely mind boggling.
How far are we from "US-born Citizens Only" signs at lunch counters in Amarillo and Tucson? The hatred has to stop, and a solution that takes into account the economic disparity between the two countries, while forbidding Mexico to happily dump its unemployables across the border, absolutely must be found.
Con safos, ése&
Post by: spacemanspiff on March 09, 2005, 03:55:45 PM
i'm under the impression that illegal immigrants have not been the ones speaking out so much about how they need special laws made up just for them. they're all afraid of ins, so why draw attention to themselves?
prove i'm wrong and i'll eat some crow, on that particular point.
Quote
Borders are artificial when people are hungry, no matter how many barriers you erect and how many people you line up to stand watch against illegal immigration. It's bad enough that you deride them for arguably valid but culturally myopic reasons. But the fact that so many of you would like to think of the Southwest as if it were a province of Sweden, something that conveniently popped up out of the blue to take our landthirsty excess of immigrant citizens, is absolutely mind boggling
the hatred isnt for the mexicans. its against the mexican government that has displayed how little they care for their own citizens that they openly encourage people to enter our country illegally. its against the corrupt military/law enforcement/politicians from mexico that protect border jumpers and drug runners.
the mexican government does not want to solve its own problems of overcrowding, unemployment, etc. they want our country to handle it. and that is what i hate.
mexicans or any migrant that enters lawfully, i got no problem with. they go by the rules, great! its those that dont that i wish we could deport. not out of hatred, just out of principle.
with that said, i am also one of those most vocal about tightening the US/mexican border. i am all for walls, fences, barb wire, and i am all for opening fire on those that make it through the mine field.
Post by: macavada on March 09, 2005, 04:21:02 PM
Quote
the hatred isnt for the mexicans. its against the mexican government
Quote
i am all for opening fire on those that make it through the mine field.
I don't get this.
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 09, 2005, 04:40:07 PM
Post by: Phantom Warrior on March 09, 2005, 06:34:26 PM
Quote
Let's try and deny the fact that the bottom left corner of this vaguely rectangular nation ever belonged to anyone else, that other languages were ever spoken there, and let's act like the righteously indignant ones when 160 years of passed time haven't done enough to obliterate truths that we might not like to admit, even unto ourselves.
Respectfully, SO WHAT? Most of this country used to belong to England. France owned a big chunk. Spain and (I think) Russia were in on the act too. I'm sure we took pieces of Canada. Mexico used to belong to Spain. Before that it belonged to the Indians. A lot of things have happened in history. War, oppression, repression, genocide. And many more.
But that's history. None of today's Mexicans have lived through anything that happened during the founding of Texas. No one alive today in America is responsible for anything that did happen. And war is war. To the victor go the spoils. No one is seriously arguing that the US make concessions to anyone else they fought wars with and got territory from.
Quote
How far are we from "US-born Citizens Only" signs at lunch counters in Amarillo and Tucson? The hatred has to stop, and a solution that takes into account the economic disparity between the two countries, while forbidding Mexico to happily dump its unemployables across the border, absolutely must be found.
This isn't about hatred for an ethnicity. This is about Mexico "happily dumping it's unemployables across the border." And then the US being expected to give them all kinds of benefits without them becoming citizens.
Here's a solution. Set reasonable limits on immigration. Let those that enter legally apply for citizenship. Have them work to fit in, if not completely assimilate. Let them learn to speak English, get a job, and contribute to the system. And give them all the benefits and privileges of a full American citizen.
That's the way the system is supposed to work.
Post by: Winston Smith on March 09, 2005, 07:00:36 PM
Post by: Suoiruf Selyts on March 09, 2005, 07:39:06 PM
Quote
What phantom warrior said.
This is how people get called ditto-heads.
Phantom, you speak of assimilation. Just what do you mean? New Mexico is 50% Hispanic. Assimilation? Sure. I'll give you Spanish lessons and find someone to teach you how to make chile verde. We'll get you assimilated so good everybody'll think your family is all güeros, carnal.
Quote
Respectfully, SO WHAT? Most of this country used to belong to England.
Respectfully, most of it didn't. England only had claims to the East coast and running westward into terra incognita. Spain had Florida, a good part of the Caribbean, all of South America, except for a few colonies along the coast along the Antilles, and Brazil, some of which belonged to England, some to Portugal, some to the Dutch. Spain also had the entire Southwest, that part not claimed by France, both of whose claims ran smack into the PNW. And then there was Russia and Alaska.
Quote
This isn't about hatred for an ethnicity. This is about Mexico "happily dumping it's unemployables across the border." And then the US being expected to give them all kinds of benefits without them becoming citizens.
This is all about it. Every good old boy from Brownsville to Kansas City wants to come down to the border and play Boy Scout. Until you can say "Mexicans," or Latinos, or Hispanics, and not slur "meskins' off the end of your tongue like it's a curse, it's all about it. Oh, and the word should be ITS, like I typed, not IT'S. ITS is a possessive, and IT'S is a verb contraction. Nothing worse than a mistaken correction. ¿ Quieres que te enseñe la gramática en español también ?
Post by: Phantom Warrior on March 09, 2005, 08:33:01 PM
Quote
Phantom, you speak of assimilation. Just what do you mean? New Mexico is 50% Hispanic. Assimilation? Sure. I'll give you Spanish lessons and find someone to teach you how to make chile verde.
I have no objection to immigrants retaining their native culture. More power to them. I'm a huge lefse fan, which I get from my 1/8 of Norwegianness (sp?). But the language of the land is English and most of the country's business is transacted in English. So I don't feel it's unreasonable to expect citizens to speak English, at least if they want to interact with the rest of society.
Quote
Respectfully, most of it didn't. England only had claims to the East coast...
You missed the forest by looking at the one deformed tree. Your paragraph is exactly my point. America used to belong to many different countries. Not all of our land aquisitions were peaceful. But it's silly to start going back and saying "We owe France this and Mexico that and England this." We fought wars, we won, and that's it. America doesn't owe anything to those countries.
Quote
Quote
PhantomIntellect wrote:
This isn't about hatred for an ethnicity. This is about Mexico "happily dumping it's unemployables across the border." And then the US being expected to give them all kinds of benefits without them becoming citizens.
This isn't about hatred for an ethnicity. This is about Mexico "happily dumping it's unemployables across the border." And then the US being expected to give them all kinds of benefits without them becoming citizens.
This is all about it. Every good old boy from Brownsville to Kansas City wants to come down to the border and play Boy Scout. Until you can say "Mexicans," or Latinos, or Hispanics, and not slur "meskins' off the end of your tongue like it's a curse, it's all about it.
Ok. "Mexicans." "Latinos." "Hispanics." Some people are against illegal immigration because they are racist. I'm not. I don't believe most of the other people in this thread are either. Speaking for myself, I am opposed to people illegally entering this country and being given the full benefits of citizenship. I don't care if they are Hispanic, Asian, Black, or White Anglo Saxon Protestants.
Quote
This is how people get called ditto-heads.
And? I see no shame in expressing your agreement when someone has summed up your own position succinctly.
Quote
Oh, and the word should be ITS, like I typed, not IT'S. ITS is a possessive, and IT'S is a verb contraction. Nothing worse than a mistaken correction. ¿ Quieres que te enseñe la gramática en español también ?
The grammar police caught me, and I was wrong, so I'll take my licks like a man. I am aware of the difference and simply didn't proofread my post sufficently. I had hoped that most people would be able to dredge up my main points from amongst the clutter and painful plethora of grammatical errors...
P.S. What's w/ quoting me as PhantomIntellect? Is that a glitch in the software or is it supposed to be an insult?
Post by: brimic on March 09, 2005, 09:04:20 PM
Lets just say that in an alternative universe this exists:
You sneak across the border to canada.
In Alternative Reality Canada-
They give you free beer.
Daily massages from Blonde twins imported from Sweden so that your stress level doesn't effect your health.
Cash jobs that pay as much as middle management jobs in the USA are plentiful and there for the taking.
The Border is easy to cross in either direction.
Health care is state of the art and free.
You spend a month in Canada then come back to the United States and tell all of your buddies about it. Youwouldn't even have to explain any further than the Beer and Blondes to convince them to hop the border.
Post by: Dannyboy on March 10, 2005, 02:10:57 AM
Quote
Oh, and the word should be ITS, like I typed, not IT'S. ITS is a possessive, and IT'S is a verb contraction.
and this
Quote
PhantomIntellect wrote:
will get you called something other than ditto-head. BTW, you are absolutely right. We don't really oppose illegal immigration. We just use that as an excuse to cover our outright hatred of Mexicans. Yep, nothing but racists. Happy now?
Oh, one more thing. Maybe you can explain the hypocrisy of Mexico's southern border being so tightly guarded while encouraging their people to illegally cross their northern one.
Post by: uvakat on March 10, 2005, 02:27:18 AM
Post by: Suoiruf Selyts on March 10, 2005, 02:50:10 AM
Enough said.
Post by: macavada on March 10, 2005, 02:56:01 AM
Post by: uvakat on March 10, 2005, 03:08:52 AM
Post by: Leatherneck on March 10, 2005, 03:11:07 AM
Quote
Enough said.
Not really. Do you take that as a typical American attitude? Your implicit accusation of current company is insulting and condescending, as is:
Quote
PhantomIntellect wrote:
What part of Armed Polite Society can you not comprehend?
Post by: Sean Smith on March 10, 2005, 04:13:22 AM
I love it. Everyone who disagrees with you is hysterically labeled a jingoistic racist.
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 10, 2005, 06:36:16 AM
Where do I begin? Ethnicity aside, I believe the argument would likely stand. I don't think the sentiment would be any different would the volume of illegal immigration be from a completely different country and the immigrants (and the country from whence they come) be placing the same demands of the recipient country and society. Adaptation to one's new surroundings is nothing new. Whether arriving as a legal or illegal immigrant or refuge or even as a visitor to any new place, one must try to adapt to the new laws and societal rules in place. When this doesn't happen, you and yours will be viewed with disdain. I view it very much akin to some visits while in the military to Germany. Because of the behavior of other Americans, we were not exactly greeted warmly. Was this bigoted of them? Perhaps but I thought it to be understandable. I also found that by attempting wholeheartedly to speak the language, learn something of the local customs and cuisine and generally adapt, I managed to turn around how I was viewed and treated. Not really a huge leap here but often ignored with our current situation.
My mother came from Mexico (legally) after having married my father before I was born. Over the years, we have encountered all forms of hardships and racism. But nothing has compared to the level of acceptance and tolerance that we have found. This country treats its immigrants better than any other I have ever been to or read about and yet theres constantly demands for more and more to be given. Ive always held that nothing should be given to immigrants or natives through government extortion. Life is tough. Everyone has challenges to face. Some more than others. The absolutely wonderful part is that were lucky enough in a place where if you do come here and even make smallest effort to work and get along, more than likely you will succeed.
And by the way, dude, no one else is gonna say it here (they are far too nice). The crap youre spouting in Spanish is highly insulting and bigoted and if you dont cut it out, I will have a talk with some of the mods about having you removed.
Amablemente,
Ghostrider
Post by: spacemanspiff on March 10, 2005, 07:52:41 AM
Quote
Oh, and the word should be ITS, like I typed, not IT'S. ITS is a possessive, and IT'S is a verb contraction. Nothing worse than a mistaken correction
uhoh! we better turn tails and start learning to speak mexican now! they got us on lack of grammar! whatever will we do?
its fair to say our arguments hold more water than yours do sourif. after all, you were the first one to bring in a lame attack on how a person types.
Post by: Typhoon on March 10, 2005, 09:39:25 AM
Is this your same personality from The High Road, or are you trying out an evil alter ego?
Post by: Suoiruf Selyts on March 10, 2005, 10:23:39 AM
Post by: Ktulu on March 10, 2005, 10:50:37 AM
Post by: Gewehr98 on March 10, 2005, 01:33:49 PM
When I was an assistant grade school teacher in Sacramento, the district school board wanted me to learn Spanish, so the kids who couldn't speak English in class could understand their teacher(s). :evil:
Post by: doczinn on March 13, 2005, 09:13:13 PM
Post by: Stand_watie on March 13, 2005, 10:41:42 PM
Quote
Just face it, guys - the only reason you don't like mojados is because you're racist against all hispanics. [end sarcasm]
What does that word mean? I ask because two hispanic guys I work with were talking the other day about one of them's family member getting hit by an uninsured driver, and I think the other one asked if the guy was 'mojados". I'm not sure, he might've said Mujanes or something that sounds similar to that to my english only ear.
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 14, 2005, 04:39:08 AM
Post by: Stand_watie on March 14, 2005, 01:32:36 PM
Quote
"Mojado" is the slang term for...referring to someone (usually from Mexico) who is here illegally. Never really understood the term because the river is very, very low in most places and you don't really get all that wet crossing it....have done it several times
Does it have the same perjorative connotation that the "w" word does? Interestingly enough I heard the same guy use that particular term as well while talking to a different hispanic coworker (yeah, I'm the token white guy on the unit).
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 14, 2005, 02:59:22 PM
I wonder if we would have a "need" for undocumented labor if welfare weren't a better option for so many Americans.
full-fist
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 14, 2005, 03:29:22 PM
Not as far as I've been able to detect. Mostly it just gives the feel of being of a lower class. Kind of like kids teasing each other I've also seen. Not really fighting words though. I've also heard it used legitimately as a shortcut to asking if someone is documented (legal) or not. I wouldn't suggest using it unless you are on friendly terms with the person just cause it would seem impolite.
fistful:
I think that it becomes a twisted argument as to whether undocumented aliens are needed or not. They more than likely wouldn't be here if the economic demand wasn't there but the plain and simple truth is that they are "illegal" so the reprecusions they face if they were to be caught and prosecuted are there (like that'll ever happen). Furthermore, being here illegally and getting away with it, I don't think, gives them license to not want to adapt and certainly doesn't give them a footing to make any demands of the US. I do agree at least somewhat though on the welfare system having made its impact economically to the entire situation.
Post by: Stand_watie on March 14, 2005, 03:56:22 PM
Quote
Stand-watie..I've also heard it used legitimately as a shortcut to asking if someone is documented (legal) or not. I wouldn't suggest using it unless you are on friendly terms with the person just cause it would seem impolite.
That was the implication I thought from the context...as you're well aware, here in Texas there is a stereotype (whether or not it's justified is for another discussion) that if you're hit by an uninsured driver there is a good chance they are an illegal alien.Something else I found out to my surprise, from the same guy, is that apparently there is some racial (I know racial isn't the correct term, but I can't think of a better) tension between what he calls "chicanos" (native Texans of Mexican ethnicity) and "Mexicans". He says that "Mexicans" look down on them because they're bi-lingual.
11 years I've been here, and I had thought "Mexican" was the accepted generic term for hispanic in Texas, but I was obviously wrong.
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 14, 2005, 04:06:28 PM
Post by: Stand_watie on March 14, 2005, 04:13:40 PM
We do need the cheap labor, but we need it without the side effects of the persons entering being criminal to start with and living in an illegal underworld. And we need a secure border where persons are screened in advance for criminality, terror connections etc.
I think people who actually want to immigrate here and become Americans (and bring their wife/kids with them) should be moved to the front of the line of people applying for work visas.
Quote
Very interesting but from my perspective "bilingual" is a bit overly generous. I prefer "illiterate in two languages" and that's more likely the reason that they are looked down upon
I can't speak for all of them, or for their spanish skills, but the guys I'm referring to speak English as well as I do, except that when they're talking to each other they have a little Cheech Marin accent. When they're talking to me they sound like Joe American.
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 14, 2005, 04:21:48 PM
Post by: Stand_watie on March 14, 2005, 04:31:52 PM
Quote from: Ghostrider66
I didn't mean it to be insulting or even limit it to linguistic ability but rather to the lack of in depth knowledge and history that usually comes with being a native. It's usually subtle but I find it interesting that you brought up the Cheech Marin analogy. The movie "Born in East L.A." illustrates beautifully how well a person regarded as Mexican on one side can be completely alien when put into a true Mexican culture. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush here, but usually you'll find that the ones with the biggest chips on their shoulders (on both sides of the fence) are the ones with least of amount of their respective cultures. Nice people tend to get along in almost any situation.
I can't argue with that. The guys that I'm referring to are just as American as I am culturally, and more Texan than I am culturally. Other than speaking spanish I doubt they have any more cultural knowledge or cultural identity with Mexico than does the average O'Riley who was born in Boston does with Ireland.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 14, 2005, 08:32:21 PM
Had the Mexican Empire used its superior military force to defeat the ostensibly weaker American military and kept its land, would Mexicans be better off now? Would Mexicans living in the ceded area have fared better under Mexican rather than American governance? Consider Mexico's prolonged political instability. Or did the Mexican upper-class flee the affected areas? I don't recall, and I have packed up most of my books and moved them to my new digs just this evening. Pity.
Certainly the riches of California, both in land and oro, would have benefitted Mexico, but enough to offset the expense of securing the vast desert and mountain areas, and patrolling the coasts? Also, Mexico would have borne the cost of "pacifying" the aborigines on both sides of the Rio Bravo.
In sum, would there be jobs to cross the river for if Mexico had owned the land for the past 150 years?
This is only an off-the-cuff assesment. Enlighten me.
Furioso, ¿dónde estás?
Post by: Ghostrider66 on March 15, 2005, 12:57:46 PM
I think that like a lot of Latin American countries, the modern problems find their roots with the following of communist/socialist ideals into a revolution that is eventually successful. Most of the glorified Mexican heroes from Francisco (Pancho) Villa to Emiliano Zapata gain fame and power through the old standard of putting down those greedy landowners and giving out the land to the poor peasants (who don't do much but eek out a measly existance with it). This essentially killed any agricultural growth that had begun in the country. Most countries that didn't fiddle with this little experiment eventually saw the fall of the "greedy landowners" by the onset of industrialization followed by the technology age. By going the way of active redistribution, it stalled progress for 70+ years (oil and mining being some of the only industies to really thrive and those were government owned/controlled). When the maquiladora movement began in Mexico bringing the first real industrial revolution, you began to hear the tired old mantra of exploitation of the working class, etc which of course retards progress even further. The single most important economic issue that has been considered but never truly explored in Mexico is the free market. You can only imagine had this been implimented at any part during the 20th century, with all of the natural assets, Mexico would probably be a richer country than ours.