Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Balog on March 24, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
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http://warontherocks.com/2015/11/what-paris-taught-us-about-the-islamic-state/
Good overview, and on a website I recently discovered that I'm learning a lot from.
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Thank you for posting the link. A fascinating article.
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The PREVENT program has scaled up and down, but has continuously sought to pursue a more multi-cultural approach to counter extremist messaging and detect those pockets of extremism producing individuals committed to violence. The PREVENT strand is accompanied by a PURSUE strand for interdicting extremists already committed to violence.
Honest question, as I'm not familiar with the UK's programs; does that mean they patrolled and secured Islamic neighborhoods?
I also have to ding the article a bit here, for not explaining the difference between the French and UK approaches, aside from one being more successful than the other.
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Honest question, as I'm not familiar with the UK's programs; does that mean they patrolled and secured Islamic neighborhoods?
I also have to ding the article a bit here, for not explaining the difference between the French and UK approaches, aside from one being more successful than the other.
It is perhaps a bit more complex than just a different approach - London is a lot more integrated a city (in terms of racial / religious mix as well as wealth disparity) than Paris is (in short, there really aren't any "Islamic" neighbourhoods in London, though there are areas that might be described as such in some parts of the North), its a lot easier for immigrants to get on here (or at least have evidence that its possible to get on) and also the parts of the world from which most of "our" Muslims have historically come (the subcontinent) are quite a bit different to the French Muslims (North Africa), and there is a much different historical context to the relationship between the host country and those parts of the world as well.
In short there isn't really the underclass defined by race here that appears to exist in some of their banlieues (though some of the recent policies enacted by the Tory administration here seem determined to create one) that seems to have provided the staff for most of their problems, which means that our problem seems to be idiot converts (the two murderers of Lee Rigby and at least one of the 7/7 bombers) and bad men with a talent for leadership like Mohammed Siddique Khan, who organized the 7/7 bombings. What effect the immigration crisis will have is anyone's guess, though if the attacks continue (or at least take place in Germany) one would imagine that Angela Merkel will be dumped sooner rather than later, as she should given her considerable role in it.
That said, it also shouldn't be forgotten that what used to be Special Branch have a lot of institutional memory and experience of dealing with lengthy terror campaigns and working with intelligence agencies / the armed forces, almost certainly far more than either the French or Belgians have. They have intercepted a lot of stuff, indeed some people got convicted just this week - http://www.itv.com/news/2016-03-23/british-student-known-as-the-surgeon-plotted-is-inspired-terror-attack-on-streets-of-london/
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I just want to quote this part:
The few remaining senior leaders of al Qaeda must be scratching their heads. Their complex hijackings and bombings required months or years of planning, were often foiled or failed, and rarely achieved what the ISIL network has seemingly mastered in only a matter of months. Following the model cast by Lashkar E Taiba in its 2008 Mumbai attacks, Islamic State affiliates and inspired followers have learned that simple armed assaults create plenty of casualties and generate the same amount of fear as complex, sophisticated attacks. For years, counterterrorism analysts have wondered when terrorists would follow the example of the D.C. snipers in 2002 and the 2008 Mumbai attacks, both of which hammered soft targets and captured the media cycle and Western audiences for days, weeks, and even months. The answer appears clear now, as ISIL has figured out how to strike at the heart of its adversaries. Because the rewards for the Paris operation have been significant, the world should expect ISIL and other terrorist groups to pursue this approach for many years to come. It’s repeatable, cheap, and effective.
Again, my point that our enemies have been stupid until now. At some point they will get smart, and heaven help us then....
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While the attacks in Paris and Brussels certainly provided lessons I doubt anything was "taught", for something to have been taught implies that learning took place.
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In short there isn't really the underclass defined by race here that appears to exist in some of their banlieues (though some of the recent policies enacted by the Tory administration here seem determined to create one) that seems to have provided the staff for most of their problems, which means that our problem seems to be idiot converts (the two murderers of Lee Rigby and at least one of the 7/7 bombers) and bad men with a talent for leadership like Mohammed Siddique Khan, who organized the 7/7 bombings. What effect the immigration crisis will have is anyone's guess, though if the attacks continue (or at least take place in Germany) one would imagine that Angela Merkel will be dumped sooner rather than later, as she should given her considerable role in it.
Of course America does largely have an underclass that IS defined by race for the most part, but I think much of our "luck" here with GWOT is that by and large, Muslims aren't in it. And a lot of the ones here already trend towards professional and merchant-class livings.
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Of course America does largely have an underclass that IS defined by race for the most part, but I think much of our "luck" here with GWOT is that by and large, Muslims aren't in it. And a lot of the ones here already trend towards professional and merchant-class livings.
I think this is absolutely correct with a few notable exceptions. However I fear the more third world muslims we import (as opposed to educated Lebanese, Syrians, Iraqis, Bosnians etc that have immigrated in the past) the more likely we are liable to end up with our own banlieus like the ones that have formed in Minnesota with the Somalis and Dearborn.