Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: zahc on July 15, 2016, 04:53:31 PM
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
Somebody told me there was a coup attempt going on in Turkey. While googling it I found a list of coups in Turkey that is pretty long. Is this just their hobby, or is it a big deal?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_coups_in_Turkey
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jul/15/turkey-coup-attempt-military-gunfire-ankara
Somebody told me there was a coup attempt going on in Turkey. While googling it I found a list of coups in Turkey that is pretty long. Is this just their hobby, or is it a big deal?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Military_coups_in_Turkey
Mayhap the Turk military is doing their duty as guarantors of stable Turkish secular gov't. Erdogan undermined that role a lot the last few years and purged the top military leadership, but the mid-level officers might just have rolled over him.
Or, it might be the Gulenist fundy faction HQ'd in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania activated its test-prep boys in the military.
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Mayhap the Turk military is doing their duty as guarantors of stable Turkish secular gov't. Erdogan undermined that role a lot the last few years and purged the top military leadership, but the mid-level officers might just have rolled over him.
Or, it might be the Gulenist fundy faction HQ'd in Saylorsburg, Pennsylvania activated its test-prep boys in the military.
The Gulen lot are the one being blamed by the AKP, apparently. Hard to see how anyone will be that bothered if he is kicked out though.
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It's a Turkish national past time.
Sent from my iPhone. Freaking autocorrect.
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Mayhap the Turk military is doing their duty as guarantors of stable Turkish secular gov't. Erdogan undermined that role a lot the last few years and purged the top military leadership, but the mid-level officers might just have rolled over him.
This was my immediate thought -- along with the passing notion that it's long overdue.
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Obama is supporting Erdogan. That's enough to make me hope the coup is successful.
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Obama is supporting Erdogan. That's enough to make me hope the coup is successful.
The coup is almost certainly Saudi sponsored.
But hey, democracy and freedom are the best!
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Comtemporary turkish politics background:
http://www.unz.com/isteve/turkish-attempted-coup-background/
Doubt it is saudi backed. Gulenist or secularist.
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Reports coming out now that the coup has failed. Bloomberg is reporting coup failure, while other sites are reporting uncertainty as to who is in control. Erdogan is back in Istanbul.
On a side note, anyone want to bet oil jumps substantially in tomorrow's trading?
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Reports coming out now that the coup has failed. Bloomberg is reporting coup failure, while other sites are reporting uncertainty as to who is in control. Erdogan is back in Istanbul.
My favorite news site doesn't know if it failed; too many conflicting reports.
Terror attack in Nice, France one day, coup d'etat in Turkey the next......we are living in interesting times.
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My favorite news site doesn't know if it failed; too many conflicting reports.
Terror attack in Nice, France one day, coup d'etat in Turkey the next......we are living in interesting times.
When the dominant world power purposely withdraws from the world, things get interesting.
Pax Americana did not last as long as Pax Romana.
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When the dominant world power purposely withdraws from the world, things get interesting.
Pax Americana did not last as long as Pax Romana.
Well, this morning, it seems beyond question the coup failed.
I guess Turkey is going to wind up an Islamic state, under Shariah Law.
I feel bad for the people there .... they are ...."were?".... an ally of America.
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I just received an e-mail from the only Turk I know -- who has lived in the U.S. for 25 years or more and is married to an American friend of mine. Her view seems to be that the coup failed and that was regrettable, but she and her family don't like Erdogan and they don't like where he is trying to take Turkey.
What I don't know is whether her family in Turkey are mainstream, or outlyers ...
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And now because of this clumsy, ill-conceived coup attempt Erdogan is going to end up with vastly more power.
Why if I were a cynical sort.....
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I just received an e-mail from the only Turk I know -- who has lived in the U.S. for 25 years or more and is married to an American friend of mine. Her view seems to be that the coup failed and that was regrettable, but she and her family don't like Erdogan and they don't like where he is trying to take Turkey.
What I don't know is whether her family in Turkey are mainstream, or outlyers ...
I'm betting the Turkish gentleman who is good friends with my bosses is not happy. From what I understand he had some direct links (or at least, semi direct) to the attempt.
I would think that most Turks in the US are probably on the "don't like the current status quo" side of the fence. I'm not sure what the deal is on the ground in Turkey, though.
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Well, this morning, it seems beyond question the coup failed.
I guess Turkey is going to wind up an Islamic state, under Shariah Law.
I feel bad for the people there .... they are ...."were?".... an ally of America.
Probably, but even the attempt or a threat of a military coup has weakened the government or forced parliamentary or presidential change in Turkey in the past.
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The failed coup will probably speed the implementation of Sharia law. Turkey's secular government will become a thing of the past.
At some point the not too distant future I am sure Turkey will be kicked out of NATO.
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The failed coup will probably speed the implementation of Sharia law. Turkey's secular government will become a thing of the past.
At some point the not too distant future I am sure Turkey will be kicked out of NATO.
This crisis is a result of Erdogan's efforts to aggregate power unto himself, and to rewrite Turkey's constitution to (a) consolidate power to the presidency and (b) establish Shariah as the basis of the Turkish legal system. It's not a surprise that the military finally reacted -- what's surprising (to me) is that the effort apparently wasn't coordinated and supported throughout the military, and that so many of the people didn't support the take-over.
Meanwhile, Egypt has block a UN Security Council resolution supporting Erdogan's government. And the Turkish government has turned off power to the U.S. air base at Incirlik, and closed Turkish air space to military flights.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/16/turkey-cuts-power-to-incirlik-air-base-suspends-military-flights.html
I don't think this is over yet.
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Erdogan's "winning" could just as easily create an overreach with the purges already underway that sets up his fall IMO. Roughly 1600 troops and 3000 judges/prosecutors. And how many had anything to do with the coup? And that sort of thing could alienate the Turks that were initially on "his side".
Things are still in a state of flux IMO. Not saying Erdogan will fall, but IMO it's not over yet either.
Putting aside Gary Johnson/Libertarians polling higher than ever, and sit-it-out Bernie supporters and #NeverTrump etc. for the moment, I do think the more unrest, terrorism, and uncertainty in the world that happens, both abroad, and here at home between now and Nov. 1 probably plays better for Trump than it does Hillary.
So now we're pitting Trump's non-experience against Hillary's greater experience at doing all the wrong things.
Old Chinese proverbs/curses come to mind.
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There is also speculation from more than one source that Erdogan might have orchestrated the "coup" himself, as a means to consolidate power.
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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_TURKEY_MILITARY_COUP_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-07-17-08-49-15
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3693729/Did-Erdogan-STAGE-coup-based-Turkish-cleric-facing-extradition-botched-rebellion-claims-president-orchestrated-plot-justify-clampdown-civil-rights.html
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This crisis is a result of Erdogan's efforts to aggregate power unto himself, and to rewrite Turkey's constitution to (a) consolidate power to the presidency and (b) establish Shariah as the basis of the Turkish legal system. It's not a surprise that the military finally reacted -- what's surprising (to me) is that the effort apparently wasn't coordinated and supported throughout the military, and that so many of the people didn't support the take-over.
Meanwhile, Egypt has block a UN Security Council resolution supporting Erdogan's government. And the Turkish government has turned off power to the U.S. air base at Incirlik, and closed Turkish air space to military flights.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/07/16/turkey-cuts-power-to-incirlik-air-base-suspends-military-flights.html
I don't think this is over yet.
We must have gotten a whiff of it about a month or so ago. I posted a story on FB about a story I saw on AFN or in Stars and Stripes about us NEO'ing all the dependents and Family Members at Incirlik to Ramstein.
Yeah, it's a long way from over. The Turkish military has always been somewhat Pro-western and an anchor to keep the country pointed that way.