Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: K Frame on August 07, 2016, 09:12:26 AM
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Anyone have any experience with the ones like Liquivac or the Attwood?
Finding a place to change my oil is a pain. The HOA really frowns on doing it in my drive, but if I were to do it from the top like one of the oil vac systems I think I'd be able to get away with it a lot more easily. And the filter on the Forester is on top of the engine, which makes that even easier.
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I used one at the marina for boats, usually Chevy small blocks. They work great if you are patient, as in, get it started and go to lunch or something.
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I used one at the marina for boats, usually Chevy small blocks. They work great if you are patient, as in, get it started and go to lunch or something.
Any idea what brand it is?
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I posted before about mine. 5 gal bucket with lid. (I got mine free from recycling bin) few feet of pex type tubing small enough to feed to bottom of oil pan through dipstick hole. Drill hole in lid same size as tubing and feed to bottom of bucket If lid has a bung cap like mine it is the perfect size for a press fit with a shopvac hose, otherwise holesaw something to fit whatever vac you have. You are not going to suck it into the vac, just create enough negative pressure to pull the oil into the bucket. Put the collection bucket lower than the pan, turn on vac to pull oil. Once you have a siphon going just pull the vac and come back in an hour or 2.
Total cost of mine was nothing. The tubing was left over and the whole thing is reusable. I originally did it to change the oil on our crossfire but have since used it on a tractor front axle differential. It drains better if oil is synthetic or warmed up.
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Probably just go with a ready made one for the faster suction.
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When using one of these, how do you assure you're getting to the bottom of the pan? I assume the commercial ones have measurement markings so that you can estimate based on your oil capacity. Depending on your individual engine though and how much oil it burns between changes, the marks might not be an accurate measure. If you have a 6qt capacity and vacuum out 5.5qts, is that because your engine burned 1/2qt, or because you didn't get the hose down to the lowest point in the pan?
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For the cost of the vacuum, how long will it take to recoup the cost of the device vs just paying a shop to do the oil change for you?
Chris
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I figure twice.
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Plus I can do it on my schedule, not try to find time to get to a shop.
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Regarding how much you get out, that is a bit of a rub.
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When using one of these, how do you assure you're getting to the bottom of the pan?
Well, for a true WTF oil change, you'll remove the drain plug to pump the new oil in from the bottom anyway.
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I figure twice.
So, a year+ for cost recovery (my car goes 6k+ between oil changes and I drive it about 13k/year), but you still have to do the oil change and dispose of the oil.
Plus I can do it on my schedule, not try to find time to get to a shop.
You have to find time to do it yourself though. Oil change places no longer require an appointment, just stop in.
Chris
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Maybe I'll just keep dumping it on your driveway.
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Then again, I'd probably find it more useful, and would use it a lot more, than you used your...
Highly customized, waffle blue Ruger 10-22...
Your multitude of ham radios...
Your "OMG I'm really into ham radios!!!" license plate...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
What was cost of recovery on those?
Oh, that's right, that's a hobby! :facepalm: :laugh:
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OK, reason I'm looking into the pump...
1. I need to change my oil.
2. I don't like using the quick lube places. I've had bad experiences with EVERY goddamned one of them I've ever been to, ranging from WE JUST FOUND A HUGE PROBLEM THAT WILL CAUSE YOUR CAR TO 'ESPLODE IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT FIXED THIS MINUTE!!! (by the way, we have a special on that right now!) to them not putting the oil cap back on, the dipstick back in, or the aircleaner bolts back in place.
3. I like changing my own oil. It gets me under the hood of the car to see what's going on. I'll admit to not doing that often enough.
4. I like being able to pick the oil and filter that I use. Sometimes you can at one of these places, sometimes (most times) you can't.
5. I hate asking you or other friends if I can change my oil. It's an imposition, and I'm always afraid I'm going to dump oil all over your nice concrete driveway.
Regarding the "how do you know how much oil you're getting out?"
Well, most dipsticks have the "low" mark at 1 qt down. So you can gauge from there.
Plus, on my court, I can park the car at a downward angle, forcing even more oil into the front of the pan where it can be pumped out.
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5. I hate asking you or other friends if I can change my oil. It's an imposition, and I'm always afraid I'm going to dump oil all over your nice concrete driveway.
Mine's dirt. Come on over.
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Any idea what brand it is?
We had two of them, one metal commercial one and one plastic. Both seemed to work fine but we used the metal one more probably because it was bigger.
You jam the hose into the dipstick hole until you feel it hit the oil pan, then suck until the hose is empty from sucking air. Not rocket science.
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Mine's dirt. Come on over.
I'll bring Mtnbkr.
He can play the banjo.
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I don't like using the quick lube places. I've had bad experiences with EVERY goddamned one of them I've ever been to, ranging from WE JUST FOUND A HUGE PROBLEM THAT WILL CAUSE YOUR CAR TO 'ESPLODE IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT FIXED THIS MINUTE!!! (by the way, we have a special on that right now!) to them not putting the oil cap back on, the dipstick back in, or the aircleaner bolts back in place.
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthegentlemansarmchair.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F09%2Fjiffy.jpg&hash=7c83e79dd963fb12b21bad19bcd4126bfc8ed850)
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One of my main reasons for asking "How do you know if you've gotten all the oil out?" is to get to something else I actually don't know the answer to. How much old oil can you leave in a modern engine and be okay? Just using my original 1/2qt example, would that end up contaminating the other 5 1/2 qts and cut down the life expectancy of the oil? Or would it not be a big deal?
If it was an older vehicle where I was changing the oil every 3K anyway, I likely wouldn't worry about it. Both my current vehicles call for 10K synthetic changes. I might not be comfortable going that long with 1/2qt of old oil mixed in with the new. But maybe that's okay. Or even a quart is okay. Or maybe only 1/4qt is acceptable.
Both vehicles also have kinda hard to get to oil plugs, and one of them has the filter on top, so I would be amenable to to pumping out the oil through the dipstick hole, since for the one at least, I would never have to crawl underneath.
Anyway, I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I just don't know the answer.
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Then again, I'd probably find it more useful, and would use it a lot more, than you used your...
Highly customized, waffle blue Ruger 10-22...
Your multitude of ham radios...
Your "OMG I'm really into ham radios!!!" license plate...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
What was cost of recovery on those?
Oh, that's right, that's a hobby! :facepalm: :laugh:
Your hobby is changing oil? By all means, change mine while you're at it. :P
Chris
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Your hobby is changing oil? By all means, change mine while you're at it. :P
Chris
No, just commenting on your inability to focus on anyth SQUIRREL!
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One of my main reasons for asking "How do you know if you've gotten all the oil out?" is to get to something else I actually don't know the answer to. How much old oil can you leave in a modern engine and be okay? Just using my original 1/2qt example, would that end up contaminating the other 5 1/2 qts and cut down the life expectancy of the oil? Or would it not be a big deal?
If it was an older vehicle where I was changing the oil every 3K anyway, I likely wouldn't worry about it. Both my current vehicles call for 10K synthetic changes. I might not be comfortable going that long with 1/2qt of old oil mixed in with the new. But maybe that's okay. Or even a quart is okay. Or maybe only 1/4qt is acceptable.
Both vehicles also have kinda hard to get to oil plugs, and one of them has the filter on top, so I would be amenable to to pumping out the oil through the dipstick hole, since for the one at least, I would never have to crawl underneath.
Anyway, I might be making a mountain out of a molehill, but I just don't know the answer.
You're always going to leave some oil behind. You want to remove as much of it as possible, but even pulling the drain plug leaves some behind.
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You jam the hose into the dipstick hole until you feel it hit the oil pan, then suck until the hose is empty from sucking air.
That's what she said.
You're always going to leave some oil behind. You want to remove as much of it as possible, but even pulling the drain plug leaves some behind.
Which is why before you pull the filter, you have to dump in a half cup of Dawn Ultra, and six quarts of warm water. Let it soak for 30 minutes, then drain again and rinse well.
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Years ago, my friend bought an old Ford Galaxy and the oil was black and dirty. He drained 3 quarts and then put 3-4 quarts of kerosene in it. Started it and ran it until it knocked. Pulled the drain plug and had to use a screwdriver to keep clearing the drain hole. stuff was like black cottage cheese. He swore by his method.
You never get all of everything but if you get most of the old and use good filters you're doing about all you can do.
I use full synthetic oil in everything and change just the filter at the halfway point.
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Friends and I used that method on an old John Deere Model B tractor that had supposedly been garaged in the late 1940s and hadn't been moved again until it was sold to my friend's father around 1981.
When we pulled the oil plug what came out was more like blackstrap molasses. We finally pulled the oil pump cover and let it sit for two days to get most of the old sludge out.
After that it was a mix of motor oil and ATF. Instead of running the risk of scoring the hell out of the cylinder walls by starting it in that condition we hooked up a belt from the flywheel to another tractor and ran it at low speed for about an hour to circulate the mix.
The stuff that came out was quite frightening.
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Maybe I'll just keep dumping it on your driveway.
At least it keeps the dust down.
I use full synthetic oil in everything and change just the filter at the halfway point.
Full synthetic for me and an oversize filter. I'm using Fram numbers, but a 3614 filter is called for by my vehicle. Meanwhile, a 3600 filter is like 50% longer and has double the filter media...
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I use Mobil-1 Syn and change oil and filter at the manufacturer's suggested intervals. The suggested intervals are getting long. Our 2007 van is roughly 6k and my 2013 Focus is somewhere around 10k.
Chris
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The Forester's suggested interval is 7,500. I'm right up against that, or a little over.
That's on 0W-20 full synthetic.
Still haven't decided which synthetic I'm going pick as my full-time oil... It's probably going to be either Castrol or Valvoline.
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Years ago, my friend bought an old Ford Galaxy and the oil was black and dirty. He drained 3 quarts and then put 3-4 quarts of kerosene in it. Started it and ran it until it knocked. Pulled the drain plug and had to use a screwdriver to keep clearing the drain hole. stuff was like black cottage cheese. He swore by his method.
Berryman's works well. Just don't pour it in a hot crankcase. The boiling point is quite low, and dumping a pint in while the engine is hot will get an impressive amount right back out the top.
On the "stuff I've drained out" lines, I decided to change the gear oil in a Datsun pickup once after checking it and finding it about the consistency of Jello. It took some acetone to thin it out enough to come out the drain hole. Unfortunately, some of the chunks that came out were bearings and their cages. Right after Cars For Kids came and hauled it off, I found a rebuilt transmission going for $150. I hate that, as it was a good little truck other than the transmission issues.
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The Forester's suggested interval is 7,500. I'm right up against that, or a little over.
That's on 0W-20 full synthetic.
Still haven't decided which synthetic I'm going pick as my full-time oil... It's probably going to be either Castrol or Valvoline.
Next time I change my wife's Mazda 6 oil, which is 0W20:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SKYL9I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=K6E4LZHHD4BB&coliid=I3TPIG1VMFPJA5&psc=1
$37 for $6.xx/qt plus free two day shipping. I can't buy it locally for that.
Also, Mobil 1 filters for $10:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000CIT3N0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=K6E4LZHHD4BB&coliid=IAWDXYYQN76MP&psc=1
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Next time I change my wife's Mazda 6 oil, which is 0W20:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000SKYL9I/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=K6E4LZHHD4BB&coliid=I3TPIG1VMFPJA5&psc=1
$37 for $6.xx/qt plus free two day shipping. I can't buy it locally for that.
I haven't looked at 0-20, but I just bought 5-20 at Walmart. A 5qt jug was $23, even at $7/quart, another quart to give you 6 would have been less than the Amazon price for 6 individual quarts. Is 0-20 that much more expensive?
Chris
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I haven't looked at 0-20, but I just bought 5-20 at Walmart. A 5qt jug was $23, even at $7/quart, another quart to give you 6 would have been less than the Amazon price for 6 individual quarts. Is 0-20 that much more expensive?
Chris
I could not find Mobil 1 at Walmart in either weight my vehicles required. Went to 3-4 WMs. Auto parts stores charge more per quart and, crazily, the bulk 5qt containers were more than the per-quart price for 5 quarts. Like nearly $10/qt. Toss in sales tax. Wife's car requires 0W20 and my truck 5W30.
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Like I said, I didn't pay attention to 0w-20, but 5w-20, 5w-30, 10w-30, 15w-540, etc, were all $23/5qtJug. Lots on the shelf too. Odd that they were all tapped out in your locale.
BTW, I'd like to take this time to say how much I hate when cars use fractions of a quart, especially when it's 4.5 or something, leaving me with a half quart in a big arsed jug. My van and hatchback both use 4.5qt of the same oil, leaving me to collect half quart bits until I have enough to be useful.
Chris
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For those that go to Costco, they have cases of Mobil 1 on sale at $10 off a few times a year. That's usually when I buy it and just store it. Though I've never seen 0wt-20 there, just 5-30 and 10-30.
The 4Runner uses 0wt-20. It's been on Toyota Care until just a few months ago, so this next go round is the first time I'll be doing it on that ride. If I decide to do it instead of taking it in. I guess to make up for having a super easy to change cabin air filter, they decided to make this the procedure for changing the oil filter just to even things out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/116417-oil-change-5th-gen-how-lots-pics.html
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Like I said, I didn't pay attention to 0w-20, but 5w-20, 5w-30, 10w-30, 15w-540, etc, were all $23/5qtJug. Lots on the shelf too. Odd that they were all tapped out in your locale.
BTW, I'd like to take this time to say how much I hate when cars use fractions of a quart, especially when it's 4.5 or something, leaving me with a half quart in a big arsed jug. My van and hatchback both use 4.5qt of the same oil, leaving me to collect half quart bits until I have enough to be useful.
Chris
I just run mine a pint low until they need a quart.
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BTW, I'd like to take this time to say how much I hate when cars use fractions of a quart, especially when it's 4.5 or something, leaving me with a half quart in a big arsed jug. My van and hatchback both use 4.5qt of the same oil, leaving me to collect half quart bits until I have enough to be useful.
Just add it to the cruddy old can of stale gas you leave where thieves are most likely to find it first. Also handy for soaking thinks like bicycle chains.
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Next time I use my zero cost bucket sucker I will leave the shopvac on and time it instead of just letting it siphon dry. I'll bet it's pretty damn fast.
I have a 30gL barrel in the barn where I dump all used motor and hydraulic and tranny oil. I take it to a guy that has a waste oil furnace in his shop. We trade it for those few occaisions when I need a hoist or shop tools I don't have.
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I ordered the Attwood. Good reviews, good price.
Should be here on Friday.
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I ordered this oil vac from Amazon Wed, got Thurs:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001445IZ8/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The Attwood I looked at did not have enough capacity (5 qt vs 5 3/8qt my truck requires). The Topsider has an 8qt capacity.
Used it today. I must say that is quite a nifty deal. Even though I had my son to roll around under the truck, this made it easier and much less messy. Still had to send son under to replace the oil filter and got about a half cup of oil in the oil drain pan from that. Took the waste oil to O'Reilley's. Just poured it from the Topsider can into their waste oil tank. No fuss, no muss.
If you did not change the filter, you could do it without anyone thinking you were up to an oil change until they were right up in your grill.
Now I am looking forward to changing the oil in the mowers and edger.
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Got my pump yesterday. Picked up oil and a filter today.
Hotter than hell right now. I'll try the change this evening.
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Oh, and the O'Reilley's wanted $9.49/qt for Mobil 1 of any grade.
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0W 20 Valvoline full synthetic was 25 for a 5 quart jug at Walmart.
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0W 20 Valvoline full synthetic was 25 for a 5 quart jug at Walmart.
0w-20 Mobil1 Syn was $22 for 5qt at Walmart last night (as were all the other non-high-interval versions of M1 Syn). I was there for something else and made a point to check.
Chris
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0w-20 Mobil1 Syn was $22 for 5qt at Walmart last night (as were all the other non-high-interval versions of M1 Syn). I was there for something else and made a point to check.
Chris
That's weird. Mobil 1 Synthetic was $28 and change at my Walmart.
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That's weird. Mobil 1 Synthetic was $28 and change at my Walmart.
That was the 15k extended change interval stuff.
Chris
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That was the 15k extended change interval stuff.
Chris
Ah. Didn't note that.
There's so many freaking types of synthetic oils/blends that do so many different freaking things it's confusing.
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Well, according to a ton of test stuff I've read on line, the Valvoline stuff is pretty decent. I've used Valvoline for many years, so I think I'll stick with it.
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Well, according to a ton of test stuff I've read on line, the Valvoline stuff is pretty decent. I've used Valvoline for many years, so I think I'll stick with it.
Yeah, unless you're trying to run insane oil change intervals, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the major brand synthetic oils. I stick with Mobil-1 mainly because it's a known quantity (been using it in all my vehicles for the last 20 years) and is available everywhere except Rooster's Walmart. :)
Chris
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Those are pretty much the exact reasons why I've been running primarily Valvoline oils in my cars since 1982.
Known quantity, good performance, and available just about anywhere.
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Well damn it.
My Forester uses 5.5 quarts of oil.
I've gotten so used to having cars that use 4.5 to 4.85 (yep, 4.85) that I didn't pick up an extra quart.
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Just ran across this now.
http://slickdeals.net/f/8979959-12-rebate-with-purchase-of-five-quarts-of-mobil-1-synthetic-motor-oil-limit-2-per-person?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo1
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For those that go to Costco, they have cases of Mobil 1 on sale at $10 off a few times a year. That's usually when I buy it and just store it. Though I've never seen 0wt-20 there, just 5-30 and 10-30.
The 4Runner uses 0wt-20. It's been on Toyota Care until just a few months ago, so this next go round is the first time I'll be doing it on that ride. If I decide to do it instead of taking it in. I guess to make up for having a super easy to change cabin air filter, they decided to make this the procedure for changing the oil filter just to even things out:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/116417-oil-change-5th-gen-how-lots-pics.html
I was expecting something horrible. That's pretty easy.
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Yeah, unless you're trying to run insane oil change intervals, I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the major brand synthetic oils. I stick with Mobil-1 mainly because it's a known quantity (been using it in all my vehicles for the last 20 years) and is available everywhere except Rooster's Walmart. :)
Chris
Heh.
Will look again at wally world but ww usually carries crap oil filters and i would likely have to make another trip.
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Well damn it.
My Forester uses 5.5 quarts of oil.
I've gotten so used to having cars that use 4.5 to 4.85 (yep, 4.85) that I didn't pick up an extra quart.
How much capacity has the oil vac?
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Uh... 5 quarts.
Worked great though.
But couldn't get the damn filter off and my wrench is for full size.
Need to stop tomorrow and get a wrench.
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I have a 2.7L 4 banger tacoma. I always dump in 5 quarts at a change and it works great.
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APS oil vac possessors are obligated to perform the follows experiment for the benefit of the collective:
Use the oil vac as per SOP, then pull the drain plug and see how much "missed" oil is left that drains out.
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Even with the filter pliers I got I had one hell of a time getting the filter off. The dealership put it on during their pre-sales service, and I think they had the staff gorilla crank the damned thing down.
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APS oil vac possessors are obligated to perform the follows experiment for the benefit of the collective:
Use the oil vac as per SOP, then pull the drain plug and see how much "missed" oil is left that drains out.
Sorry, but the Crossfire has so little ground clearance that I can't ramp it, and even if I had it in the air there is a belly shroud with a bunch of torx bolts that have to be removed to even access the drain plug. I can live happily with whatever small quantity of synthetic oil gets left behind. The oil I suck from the Mercedes 6cyl always looks like new oil anyway. At least Daimler put the hand-removable filter element canister topside front.
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Even with the filter pliers I got I had one hell of a time getting the filter off. The dealership put it on during their pre-sales service, and I think they had the staff gorilla crank the damned thing down.
Odds are it was installed on a clean surface and they didn't oil the gasket. they have a tendency to turn to cement then.
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Even with the filter pliers I got I had one hell of a time getting the filter off. The dealership put it on during their pre-sales service, and I think they had the staff gorilla crank the damned thing down.
Are you sure it wasn't put on by the factory?
The first filter off my Tacoma was a crumpled mess by the time I got it off. I figure they have the industrial robot putting them on set to torque them a bit high...
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It's a 2012.
I hope not.
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It's a 2012.
I hope not.
...I'd hope not as well. The monkey that put it on probably didn't oil the ring.
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I was expecting something horrible. That's pretty easy.
Let me rephrase. It's not difficult. It's time consuming. An oil change (for me) should take no more than ten minutes and just use one socket. If a spin on filter is put on properly, I should be able to unspin it with my gorilla hands. If it's an enclosed filter, the filter cap should use the same socket as the drain plug (in my ideal world).
My Trooper always took less than ten minutes. Open hood, open oil cap, crawl under vehicle (once!). Drain oil. Swap spin on filter while oil is draining. Wait an additional couple of minutes for oil to drain. Replace plug. Stand up and and add oil. Close hood. Complete.
Without a lift or other nifty setup, I will have to crawl under the 4Runner at least several times between draining oil and removing stuff, placing it carefully so I don't lose bolts and clips, then put it all back again. It'll take me at least 30 minutes. That's too much of my valuable time for an <10 minute process, and it becomes worth it for me to take it in and sit in the waiting lounge surfing the Internet and eating donuts for 45 minutes.
Even so, I'll likely try it this first go round just to time it. If my past levels of impatience are any indication though, for the next change I'll be in the Toyota hipster waiting room. Old guys got no time for nonsense.