Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Angel Eyes on September 07, 2016, 02:34:26 PM
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http://m.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/charges-to-be-filed-against-presidential-candidate/article_1c8c56e7-5fca-5cff-b039-d8a5061bc27a.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user
Though no arrests were made as a result of Tuesday's actions, Kirchmeier said the sheriff's department is "working up the information through the state’s attorney’s office to pursue charges (against Stein)." One possible charge could be for trespassing and another for vandalism, though it's not yet known whether these would be felony or misdemeanor charges.
I imagine she'll wear this like a badge of honor.
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Law enforcement officers were "pulled back from the area because it was determined that, at that point, it was unsafe for them to go into the situation," Kirchmeier said.
“At this point ... I don’t believe that we need to go in there and have physical altercations with the protesters,” he said.
That's what gas and beanbag rounds are for.
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“At this point ... I don’t believe that we need to
go in there and have physical altercations with the protesters,” he said.
Give the protestors any more attention than they deserve".
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“At this point ... I don’t believe that we need to go in there and have physical altercations with the protesters,” he said.
Give the protestors any more attention than they deserve".
When they're trespassing and damaging property, the attention they deserve isn't the kind they're still going to want once they start getting it.
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Go in & arrest them all with the cameras running we have martyrs for the cause. Its a small town, I'm sure everybody knows who everybody is. Formal charges made appearance tickets issued, it's done.
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Did she intend to paint the equipment? Was she ever told it was wrong to do that?
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Clinton's competition getting charged? Smells like lawfare.
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Did she intend to paint the equipment? Was she ever told it was wrong to do that?
James Comey said that Stein was "extremely careless" in the use of paint.
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James Comey said that Stein was "extremely careless" in the use of paint.
For a second there, I thought that was serious.
Gettin' slow in my dotage.
Good one !
Terry
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I'm not totally up on this, but is this the pipeline they are trying to put through an indian burial ground?
If so I can agree with the protest.
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I'm not totally up on this, but is this the pipeline they are trying to put through an indian burial ground?
If so I can agree with the protest.
It's unclear (to me at least). The Standing Rock Sioux are saying they've found " burials rock piles called cairns and other sites of historic significance to Native Americans". At least some of those sites are on private land (another can of worms). But all of the sites have been found pretty recently. Like after the pipeline was approved to go through the area. The Sioux are also claiming the energy company has destroyed even more sacred stuff they just found, while the company is claiming it's destroyed nothing of historical significance. The Sioux might be right, but the timing is a little fishy to me.
There has also been the claim made in Federal Court that the Army Corps of Engineers didn't follow proper procedures when they approved the pipeline's plans.
Growing up dog sledding in Alaska I have spent many a day cruising down the Trans-Alaska pipeline and seen just exactly how much the wilderness is disrupted by this kind of thing. (not all that much) It seems to me if there was a legitimate attempt to solve the problem, a mile wide run of land could be found that didn't disturb sacred sites. I'm kinda getting the feeling that this is an attempt to stop any further exploiting of energy reserves in that part of the US, and is using a publicly sympathetic face.
I could be wrong though.
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There has also been the claim made in Federal Court that the Army Corps of Engineers didn't follow proper procedures when they approved the pipeline's plans.
Then again, sometimes these things get downright stupid; when a nearby city wanted to run a water pipeline across mom's land, they claimed they needed a 300' wide construction right of way, then a permanent 100' for maintenance. To run 18" pipe.
Mom and a few other land owners got together to get a court to agree that they needed to stake off their 300' and prepay a percentage of the value of the damage they'd be doing in there, plus a bond for the rest. Once everybody tallied up the value of the pecan trees alone, (a pecan tree can produce well past 100 years, so future production is a fortune, and mom had over 60 that would be in their zone of destruction, plus several pear, plum, crabapple and a couple of exotic trees, plus their ROW crossed her driveway and included her 650' deep well) the city decided the pipeline could magically fit in the existing highway right of way.
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Then again, sometimes these things get downright stupid; when a nearby city wanted to run a water pipeline across mom's land, they claimed they needed a 300' wide construction right of way, then a permanent 100' for maintenance. To run 18" pipe.
Mom and a few other land owners got together to get a court to agree that they needed to stake off their 300' and prepay a percentage of the value of the damage they'd be doing in there, plus a bond for the rest. Once everybody tallied up the value of the pecan trees alone, (a pecan tree can produce well past 100 years, so future production is a fortune, and mom had over 60 that would be in their zone of destruction, plus several pear, plum, crabapple and a couple of exotic trees, plus their ROW crossed her driveway and included her 650' deep well) the city decided the pipeline could magically fit in the existing highway right of way.
Was that before or after the Kelo decision? >:D
I laugh, knowing that was on a different kind of case on property rights. But similar in the same sense that apples and oranges are both round.
REF:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London#Public_reaction
Public reaction to the decision was highly unfavorable.[21] Much of the public viewed the outcome as a gross violation of property rights and as a misinterpretation of the Fifth Amendment, the consequence of which would be to benefit large corporations at the expense of individual homeowners and local communities. Some in the legal profession construed the public's outrage as being directed not at the interpretation of legal principles involved in the case, but at the broad moral principles of the general outcome.
<snip>
Many owners of family farms also disapproved of the ruling, as they saw it as an avenue by which cities could seize their land for private developments.
Main article:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelo_v._City_of_New_London
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They push pipelines under rivers quite often. I am sure if there was a specific site, they could either go around or go deep under. I have a feeling that if they found another route, these people would suddenly find "sacred" sites there also.
Not ALL sites can be sacred and made off limits just because something was found on it. That just isn't realistic IMO. Otherwise, every square foot of land would eventually have some past sacred zoning attached to it.
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It's unclear (to me at least). The Standing Rock Sioux are saying they've found " burials rock piles called cairns and other sites of historic significance to Native Americans". At least some of those sites are on private land (another can of worms). But all of the sites have been found pretty recently. Like after the pipeline was approved to go through the area. The Sioux are also claiming the energy company has destroyed even more sacred stuff they just found, while the company is claiming it's destroyed nothing of historical significance. The Sioux might be right, but the timing is a little fishy to me.
There has also been the claim made in Federal Court that the Army Corps of Engineers didn't follow proper procedures when they approved the pipeline's plans.
Growing up dog sledding in Alaska I have spent many a day cruising down the Trans-Alaska pipeline and seen just exactly how much the wilderness is disrupted by this kind of thing. (not all that much) It seems to me if there was a legitimate attempt to solve the problem, a mile wide run of land could be found that didn't disturb sacred sites. I'm kinda getting the feeling that this is an attempt to stop any further exploiting of energy reserves in that part of the US, and is using a publicly sympathetic face.
I could be wrong though.
From my experience, they generally employ archeologists while they are building a pipeline (or any other major earth-moving project) to preserve anything they find of "historical" significance. Not only did my cousin do that for the Missouri DOT for several years, but when Enbridge built the pipeline through the farmland of the Aurora Sportsmen's Club, they found what they call a "Garbage Pit" of an early homesteader. When they finished laying the pipeline through our land (of which they paid us a huge chunk of money.*) They gave us all the "stuff"% they had dug-up, which we proceeded to donate to the Waterman Historical Society. Which then acted as if we had discovered King Tut's Tomb for them. It apparently give the bluehairs a year's+ worth of fodder for their meetings. (They did lots of research and discovered the family that had a homestead right near there, I was sent voluminous e-mails regarding the research of the "finds", to include things like what years Sears, Roebuck, and Co. had sold that china pattern(s) and all kinds of other info on the various bits of detritus).
So if anything of any significance were to be found, the digging would stop and either a) the site excavated archeologically or b) bypassed (Hence the 300' construction right of way, in case they need to deviate a bit from the original line, plus move equipment and materials during the construction.
*- Anyway. When word first got out, they weren't going to go through our farmland, they were going to go through a neighboring farm. That Owner said "Hell No." So Enbridge approached us and ask if they could make a slight jog that would go through our land (pretty much across the entire thing diagonally), oh, and by the way, here's a giant pile of money. We took the money and ran. They paid for the right of way, plus the loss of a year's harvest on 100 acres (roughly) of land that couldn't be farmed that year. By the following year, the only way you could tell there was a pipeline under our land was by the funny looking poles near the northwest and southeast corners. Our neighbor was (and still is) pissed once he found out how much money we got for doing jack-*expletive deleted*it.
%- It literally was bits of broken dishes, bits of cloth, animal bones, glass, and the usual crap that people throw in the trash when there was no further use/re-use for it. The old ladies of the town were beyond giddy with the "find". The old men were happy, because the old ladies were out of the house and running all over to do research on every bit and scrap of crap we gave the Historical Society. Things like that and holding a fundraiser to repair the first and to-date only new police cruiser the town had ever purchased went a long to endearing the club to the town.
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They push pipelines under rivers quite often. I am sure if there was a specific site, they could either go around or go deep under. I have a feeling that if they found another route, these people would suddenly find "sacred" sites there also.
Not ALL sites can be sacred and made off limits just because something was found on it. That just isn't realistic IMO. Otherwise, every square foot of land would eventually have some past sacred zoning attached to it.
My understanding is that this land isn't even on the Rez of the tribe. My guess would be that pissed that they aren't getting some of that sweet, sweet easement money. IIRC, they were first asked if the pipeline could go through the Rez, the tribe said "No", and the pipeline company went to the Army Corps of Engineers who found them a way around. Here's a fairly balanced piece of what's going on:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/us/north-dakota-oil-pipeline-battle-whos-fighting-and-why.html?_r=0
My opinion: The Pipeline company crossed all the T's and dotted the I's with the Feds, State, and landowners. The Tribe (and assorted watermelon hangers-on) are pissed they've lost with the buearucrats (and IIRC, previously in court(s)), and are now simply being PITA's to try to stop the progress. Word is the Governor has activated the ND Nasty Guard, in preparation for another Court Ruling out of DC. I hope the pipeline company wins and then countersues for damages/costs.
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using "It's a political protest" as defense for breaking the law and doing damage to another's property is wearing pretty thin.
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using "It's a political protest" as defense for breaking the law and doing damage to another's property is wearing pretty thin.
This, as well as the "it's insured" argument. That just means that most of the cost is borne by innocent third parties on their insurance premiums, and should never be seen as excusing or mitigating damage.
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^ Well put. Same goes for car thieves, etc.
Long ago I found that I was getting dinged on car insurance because my zip code was in Denver, where car thefts and vandalism is significantly higher than where I actually lived. Turns out that zip codes don't necessarily follow political boundaries and indeed, though I lived in another town right across the street from Denver, the insurance company billed me according to my 802NN zip code.
Had a jolly time convincing the insurance company to look at a map and compare my address to my actual physical location.
The political border was actually the double yellow line down the street and the Post Office which served us was less than 1/4 mile away from where we lived.
They refunded the extra dough for a year's worth of higher premiums for my and my then-wife's car because of the crooks and slimeballs in Denver.
The point here is to demonstrate and confirm that just because "it's insured" doesn't absolve one from guilt, per KD5NRH's post.
And incidentally to point out that some folks who might have this problem, i.e., living near the border to Slimeball City, U.S.A, should check out that insurance premium surcharge possibility.
(I have since then moved further away from the "front lines.")
Terry
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Weren't the Sioux relocated to that area? Would these cairns and whatnot even be related to them? Just saying ...
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. . . and the Standing Rock Sioux lose:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/us/dakota-access-pipeline/index.html
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. . . and the Standing Rock Sioux lose:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/us/dakota-access-pipeline/index.html
They should burn down their 'hood.
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And her campaign is negotiating with the locals.
"Our lawyers are working with legal authorities in North Dakota. We will participate respectfully with dignity in the legal system," Stein said.
I bet if one of us little guys had a warrant out for our arrest, we couldn't "work with legal authorities". We'd get the dogs turned loose on us, tased, pepper sprayed, and have our dogs shot and house trashed during a pre-dawn no-knock raid.
And folks wonder why people are pissed off....
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She's sucking a few % of voters away from Hillary and must be stopped. I absolutely hate vandalism, but spray painting on a bulldozer blade is about at the level of writing a message on a chalkboard- with chalk.
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. . . and the Standing Rock Sioux lose:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/09/us/dakota-access-pipeline/index.html
But the Feds have asked them to stop production.
If the Feds really wanted to help, they would relax some of the restrictions on refineries and these companies could start building them near where the oil is, instead of having to build pipelines to get it to where it needs to be.
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But the Feds have asked them to stop production.
If the Feds really wanted to help, they would relax some of the restrictions on refineries and these companies could start building them near where the oil is, instead of having to build pipelines to get it to where it needs to be.
^^^ This.
I don't understand the objections to refineries. Fifty years ago (approximately) I used to drive a route between New England and Maryland. If memory serves, there was a cluster of refineries along the New Jersey Turnpike just south of where Newark Airport is located, and another cluster of refineries south of Philadelphia, near the Delaware line. As far as I know, all those refineries are still there and still operating, and I don't think they generate any pollution worth discussing. I've never heard any complaints.
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But the Feds have asked them to stop production.
If the Feds really wanted to help, they would relax some of the restrictions on refineries and these companies could start building them near where the oil is, instead of having to build pipelines to get it to where it needs to be.
The refinery products still have to be transported.
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The refinery products still have to be transported.
True, but I live in the Midwest, with some of the highest gas prices in the country. It would be nice if it didn't have to take such a long journey. We used to have a refinery about 50 miles from me and the company closed it down.
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Refineries also tend to support a bunch of small businesses and contractors who provide labor.
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Refineries also tend to support a bunch of small businesses and contractors who provide labor.
G-d forbid we should actually build places where Americans can work -- in the United States of America.
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G-d forbid we should actually build places where Americans can work -- in the United States of America.
Or create jobs for people that build those places...
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My work is related to the construction industry. Construction jobs are good -- far better than no jobs at all -- but they tend to be seasonal in many parts of the country (they don't pour concrete or lay asphalt in the northern states, steel workers generally don't erect steel when it's freezing cold and slippery up there, and any number of other trades come to a screeching halt when the first snow flies).
And then there's the fact that construction is inherently (relatively) short term. Say you're building a widget factory. It probably takes about a year to build a factory -- and virtually no trade will be on the site for more than half that time. Once the widget factory is done, unless there's another project starting up somewhere in the region, all those construction workers get laid off. But the people who make widgets can run the factory for fifty years -- as long as people are buying widgets.
So, yes -- construction jobs are good, but good old Made in the USA widget jobs are better.
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Once the widget factory is done, unless there's another project starting up somewhere in the region, all those construction workers get laid off.
Don't forget that there will be more businesses built for all those widget makers to spend their earnings at, and I've worked with plenty of people who built a building then got hired on as maintenance there.