Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on January 25, 2017, 11:21:06 PM
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In order to better inform Americans about the impact illegal aliens are having on crime rates in sanctuary cities, President Donald Trump today ordered the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security to publish a weekly list of crimes committed by illegals....
The same executive order “directs that federal funds be withheld from cities and counties that don’t cooperate with immigration officials...
http://www.theamericanmirror.com/trump-orders-weekly-list-crimes-committed-illegals-sanctuary-cities/
Oh no he did'n!!
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The municipal leadership of Seattle was on camera gnashing their teeth about this.
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The municipal leadership of Seattle was on camera gnashing their teeth about this.
Ditto for San Francisco.
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I wish they would get immigrants from other countries and cultures out there for facetime to speak against illegal immigration. Most legal immigrants hate illegal immigration more than people who have been here for generations, given that they're the ones who were standing in line watching millions cut in front of them.
I notice fairly consistently that all the faces in the protests about stopping illegal immigration are of the same general culture. If you happen to be white and slavic, then you're "too stupid to speak good English" or if you're Asian, then I guess you're a fake immigrant, kinda like the "fake news".
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I wish they would get immigrants from other countries and cultures out there for facetime to speak against illegal immigration.
So, make Melania the immigration spokesman spokesmodel?
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I suppose my suggestion is an oversimplification of immigration problems but here goes.
1. Take steps to secure our borders and ports and complete the process whatever that might be as soon as possible. Halt all immigration until this is complete except for national security purposes. Halting all immigration has precedent.
2. At the same time stop all deportations of folks already illegally in the US except for those who commit or have committed crimes other than illegally crossing the border. Deport or incarcerate convicted criminals.
3. Advise by the use of media that all illegals who have not been convicted of any crime other than illegally crossing the border, when the border and ports are secured, they may step forward, be scrutinized and begin the process of becoming an American citizen as well as swearing allegiance to America and to support the COTUS.
The above would, of course, not make everyone happy. But it is a solution that solves much of the immigration problem.
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Didn't someone already compile a list of crimes done by illegal aliens?
IIRC, there were about 25 deaths a day due to either outright murder or vehicular homicide (mostly due to drunk/drugged driving), making the annual death toll on American streets due to illegals worse than what US troops experienced in the Middle East.
Story didn't get much traction, either due to shoddy scholarship or political correctness. But even if their numbers were off by 500% . . . that would still be a pretty damning indictment of the illegal alien problem.
If .gov is going to now start reporting illegals' crime officially . . . I expect to see support for illegals start dropping.
=D
I suppose my suggestion is an oversimplification of immigration problems but here goes.
1. Take steps to secure our borders and ports and complete the process whatever that might be as soon as possible. Halt all immigration until this is complete except for national security purposes. Halting all immigration has precedent.
2. At the same time stop all deportations of folks already illegally in the US except for those who commit or have committed crimes other than illegally crossing the border. Deport or incarcerate convicted criminals.
3. Advise by the use of media that all illegals who have not been convicted of any crime other than illegally crossing the border, when the border and ports are secured, they may step forward, be scrutinized and begin the process of becoming an American citizen as well as swearing allegiance to America and to support the COTUS.
The above would, of course, not make everyone happy. But it is a solution that solves much of the immigration problem.
Agree with 1. Disagree with 2 (except the last part) and all of 3.
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I suppose my suggestion is an oversimplification of immigration problems but here goes.
1. Take steps to secure our borders and ports and complete the process whatever that might be as soon as possible. Halt all immigration until this is complete except for national security purposes. Halting all immigration has precedent.
2. At the same time stop all deportations of folks already illegally in the US except for those who commit or have committed crimes other than illegally crossing the border. Deport or incarcerate convicted criminals.
3. Advise by the use of media that all illegals who have not been convicted of any crime other than illegally crossing the border, when the border and ports are secured, they may step forward, be scrutinized and begin the process of becoming an American citizen as well as swearing allegiance to America and to support the COTUS.
The above would, of course, not make everyone happy. But it is a solution that solves much of the immigration problem.
Pretty much. I want the wall and controlled immigration but to humanely report millions to 80 different countries is impossible. Maybe a 3 year resident visa for gainfully employed illegals, progress towards citizenship or leave when it is up.
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The above would, of course, not make everyone happy. But it is a solution that solves much of the immigration problem.
Whether anyone likes it or not, I simply don't see a way to track down and deport every illegal in the country. It's simply too late for something like that. For illegals who have committed additional crimes however, I think that is quite doable. Keeping them from sneaking back is another story. Given their additional criminal activities, they, like citizen criminals, are not going to follow the law in the first place. Gun crimes are a good analogy.
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One of our local talk show hosts has a pretty good idea for getting *most* of the illegals to self deport.
1. If you're here illegally, zero government aid. No food stamps. No housing. No medicaid. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
2a. Make e-verify use mandatory for all employers. If your social/name/other info don't match, you can submit an explanation as to why, and get it fixed.
2b. After e-verify is implemented and errors resolved, if your social/name/other info don't match up, or you are in the country illegally, your employer cannot deduct your payroll on their taxes. Basically make it so if you're illegally in this country, you are practically unemployable.
Take away the money and the benefits, and the majority of the incentive to come into this country illegally will be gone.
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. . . I simply don't see a way to track down and deport every illegal in the country . . .
Like so many things, absolute perfection can't be achieved, so you're right, we can't track down and deport EVERY illegal. But we CAN deport a LOT of them. Take a look at the numbers for transporting Mexican illegals, overwhelmingly the largest group.
1. Take 1000 buses. Sounds like a lot, but that's how many were ruined in NOLA - one medium sized Southern city - during Katrina.
2. Put 40 illegals on each bus and run them down to the border. That's 40,000 illegals.
3. 3 trips a week per bus. That's 120,000 illegals per week.
4. 100 weeks - less than 2 years - and there's your 12,000,000 illegal Mexicans.
Granted, CATCHING them will be a challenge - especially after the first year or two. (End "catch and release" and move to "catch and deport.") But once you've GOT them, transporting them is a minor issue.
Cost? Say, a million dollars per bus per year. Heck, make it TWO million dollars per bus per year, to pay for drivers, guards, gas, and maintenance. That's a two billion dollar a year program. In Texas alone the cost to educate, medicate, and incarcerate illegal aliens is estimated as being between 4 and 12 billion dollars a year. Yes, the numbers are fuzzy, but we CAN do it, and it makes economic sense to do it.
There's precedent for a major effort in this area - back in the 1950's, Eisenhower's Operation Wetback deported over 1 million illegals the first year, and a lot of illegals then "self-deported." Unfortunately, with no wall and no real penalties for US employers who hired illegals, the program wasn't as successful as it could have been. We can do better today.
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One of our local talk show hosts has a pretty good idea for getting *most* of the illegals to self deport.
1. If you're here illegally, zero government aid. No food stamps. No housing. No medicaid. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
2a. Make e-verify use mandatory for all employers. If your social/name/other info don't match, you can submit an explanation as to why, and get it fixed.
2b. After e-verify is implemented and errors resolved, if your social/name/other info don't match up, or you are in the country illegally, your employer cannot deduct your payroll on their taxes. Basically make it so if you're illegally in this country, you are practically unemployable.
Take away the money and the benefits, and the majority of the incentive to come into this country illegally will be gone.
All good ideas, especially #1. With that, you pretty much eliminate one of the largest problems re: illegals. Taking away freebies pushes the slackers back across the border, and while illegals working here are still illegal, they are not as great a drain as those who came specifically for the free stuff.
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IMO, we can NEVER say that illegals already here can stay.
1. You can NEVER stop 100% of the illegal border crossings.
2. Given current sanctuary city BS, you can't know for sure that current illegal aliens haven't committed all sorts of minor crimes and just never been convicted.
3. You need an active effort to round them up in order to put pressure on current illegals to go through the process of becoming legal or go home. If you don't, they won't bother with it.
The part few talk about is we need to reform the legal process of deportation also. IMO, the current system was set up to prevent deportation.
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I'll admit to being a bit ignorant on this - what federal funds go to cities and for what purpose? Are these grants, which I would assume go mostly to equipping law enforcement & first responders?
Is it maybe something that should be eliminated entirely?
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(https://i.imgflip.com/1ieg85.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/1ieg85)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
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Think a Constitutional Amendment ending the birth right citizenship would help?
How soon could that get pushed through?
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(https://i.imgflip.com/1ieg85.jpg) (https://imgflip.com/i/1ieg85)via Imgflip Meme Generator (https://imgflip.com/memegenerator)
That's farkin' hilarious !!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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There's precedent for a major effort in this area - back in the 1950's, Eisenhower's Operation Wetback deported over 1 million illegals the first year, and a lot of illegals then "self-deported."
And Ike had little to no freeway system to use.
One thing that seems missing is a sentence of hard labor for at least six months, before deportation. We need a wall built, folks. Then charge Mexico for the workers' room and board. =)
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All Americans, not only in the states most heavily affected, but in every place in this country, are rightly disturbed by the large numbers of illegal aliens entering our country. The jobs they hold might otherwise be held by citizens or legal immigrants. The public service they use impose burdens on our taxpayers. That’s why our administration has moved aggressively to secure our borders more by hiring a record number of new border guards, by deporting twice as many criminal aliens as ever before, by cracking down on illegal hiring, by barring welfare benefits to illegal aliens.
In the budget I will present to you we will try to do more to speed the deportation of illegal aliens who are arrested for crimes, to better identify illegal aliens in the workplace as recommended by the commission headed by former Congresswoman Barbara Jordan.
We are a nation of immigrants. But we are also a nation of laws. It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years, and we must do more to stop it.
http://twitchy.com/gregp-3534/2017/01/26/flashback-bill-clinton-channels-future-donald-trump-on-illegal-immigration-video/
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One thing that seems missing is a sentence of hard labor for at least six months, before deportation. We need a wall built, folks. Then charge Mexico for the workers' room and board. =)
(https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder252/47339252.jpg)
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And Ike had little to no freeway system to use.
One thing that seems missing is a sentence of hard labor for at least six months, before deportation. We need a wall built, folks. Then charge Mexico for the workers' room and board. =)
Take a number from some of the states. Set up a tent prison near the border in desert somewhere. They can wait there while the deportation stuff is determined.
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I suppose my suggestion is an oversimplification of immigration problems but here goes.
1. Take steps to secure our borders and ports and complete the process whatever that might be as soon as possible. Halt all immigration until this is complete except for national security purposes. Halting all immigration has precedent.
2. At the same time stop all deportations of folks already illegally in the US except for those who commit or have committed crimes other than illegally crossing the border. Deport or incarcerate convicted criminals.
3. Advise by the use of media that all illegals who have not been convicted of any crime other than illegally crossing the border, when the border and ports are secured, they may step forward, be scrutinized and begin the process of becoming an American citizen as well as swearing allegiance to America and to support the COTUS.
The above would, of course, not make everyone happy. But it is a solution that solves much of the immigration problem.
1 ==> Good
2 ==> No way. Illegal is illegal, and illegality should NOT be rewarded.
3 ==> See (2), above
My wife and adopted daughter had to wait their turns to get in. It was hard for us. Sorry, but I absolutely do not, will not, and cannot suuport any sort of amnesty or "path to citizenship." There IS a path to citizenship -- go back to the native country, apply for an immigrant visa, wait your turn, come to the U.S. when your turn rolls around, and then spend your time here and become a citizen.
Waltz across the border while other people are waiting in line? That dawg don't hunt.
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... to humanely report millions to 80 different countries is impossible. ...
I disagree, but so what if it is? They are criminals. All they are "entitled" to is to not be beaten while in custody until they're deported. How much more humane should it be?
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All good ideas, especially #1. With that, you pretty much eliminate one of the largest problems re: illegals. Taking away freebies pushes the slackers back across the border, and while illegals working here are still illegal, they are not as great a drain as those who came specifically for the free stuff.
Maybe not "as great," but still a significant drain. Never forget Western Union and Dinero en Minutos. How many billions of dollars were sent to Mexico alone last year? That's all money that would otherwise have been circulating in our economy.
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Think a Constitutional Amendment ending the birth right citizenship would help?
How soon could that get pushed through?
The problem is that one amendment requires a constitutional convention. Once there's a constitutional convention, the left could pile on with a bunch of other amendments we don't want to see -- like repealing the Second Amendment.
IMHO the preferred solution is simply to deport all the illegals. Then we won't have to worry about where they have babies.
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Maybe not "as great," but still a significant drain. Never forget Western Union and Dinero en Minutos. How many billions of dollars were sent to Mexico alone last year? That's all money that would otherwise have been circulating in our economy.
Sure. I was just looking a triage. The people who would come here specifically for handouts, besides being the biggest resource drain, are also probably the most likely demographic to commit crime, so handout elimination seems like a priority (and they can work on reducing it for citizens while they're at it).
I look at this as an analogy of our current CCW reciprocity discussion. We can hope for "ideal", but if something comes along that is a big step in the right direction, you take it.
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Maybe not "as great," but still a significant drain. Never forget Western Union and Dinero en Minutos. How many billions of dollars were sent to Mexico alone last year? That's all money that would otherwise have been circulating in our economy.
The number I have heard repeatedly is $25 billion remitted to Mexico every year.
The number I heard for the cost of the wall is $25-$30 Billion.
A 25% tax on all those transfers pays the wall by the middle of Trump's second term.
Trump has also called for a 20% tariff on all Mexican imports. Combined with the above and it could be paid off in a year...
Meanwhile in Chicago, Mayor Emanual doubles down on remaining a Sanctuary City, and doesn't want Federal help with the murder problem. Trump wants to use the National Guard and send in Federal Agents to go after the gangs. Maybe someone should tell him about "Project Exile". I think that would be much, much more effective. And federalize gun crimes, as the state plea bargains everything down, except of course, for law abiding gun-owners that make a mistake.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20170125/BLOGS02/170129899/defying-trump-emanuel-doubles-down-on-sanctuary-city-talk
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The problem is that one amendment requires a constitutional convention. Once there's a constitutional convention, the left could pile on with a bunch of other amendments we don't want to see -- like repealing the Second Amendment.
Nope.
"The Constitution provides that an amendment may be proposed either by the Congress with a two-thirds majority vote in both the House of Representatives and the Senate or by a constitutional convention called for by two-thirds of the State legislatures. None of the 27 amendments to the Constitution have been proposed by constitutional convention. "
Source: https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution
The proposal then becomes an amendment when ratified by 3/4 of the states. (38 out of 50)
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Trump has also called for a 20% tariff on all Mexican imports.
Y’all Know Who Ultimately Pays Those Tariffs, Right? (http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/2017/01/27/yall-know-who-ultimately-pays-those-tariffs-right/)
Taxing remittances back to Mexico might be the better option, although I'm not sure the logistics involved in that are feasible.
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. . . Trump wants to use the National Guard and send in Federal Agents to go after the gangs . . .
Even though the NG has been used in the past for things like riot control and disaster assistance, using it for wholesale law enforcement might raise posse comitatus issues. And . . . unless they're armed with both guns AND ammo and operating under realistic rules of engagement, they'll just become another group of victims. (If the guardsmen are issued guns but not ammo, the gangs will soon have military grade weaponry.)
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Y’all Know Who Ultimately Pays Those Tariffs, Right? (http://www.redstate.com/joesquire/2017/01/27/yall-know-who-ultimately-pays-those-tariffs-right/)
Taxing remittances back to Mexico might be the better option, although I'm not sure the logistics involved in that are feasible.
Yes, I do know who pays. However, I don't think it will get that far. Mexico will fume and bluster, but ultimately back down. If it does come to pass, while prices may go a bit higher, we will either buy from China or *gasp* make it domestically.
Mexican piss beer and Tequila might be the only exceptions. Causing economic harm to only drunks and fools...
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However, I don't think it will get that far. Mexico will fume and bluster, but ultimately back down.
Back down from what, leaving NAFTA? That I'll agree with, they have no reason to. Back down from not paying for the wall? I doubt it.
we will either buy from China or *gasp* make it domestically.
Neither of which pay for the wall.
Securing the border is a reasonable pursuit, and condensing that down to "build the wall" makes for a great slogan and easy chants for rallies. But the whole "Mexico is gonna pay for it" thing was absurd from the start and he should have dropped it long ago.
I'm just telling you, there will be a payment, it will be in a form. Perhaps a complicated form..
I think he even knows he should back away from it now, but just can't do it.
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If the $25 billion per year number for money
sent to Mexico siphoned out of the U.S. economy is at all accurate (and it has been cited in enough different sources to probably be in the ballpark), a 20% or 25% tax on such "remittances" would generate more than $6 billion annually. That would pay for putting a lot of people to work building a whole lot of wall/fence.
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article128984759.html
Miami-Dade mayor orders jails to comply with Trump crackdown on ‘sanctuary’ counties
Immediate results.
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If the $25 billion per year number for money sent to Mexico siphoned out of the U.S. economy is at all accurate (and it has been cited in enough different sources to probably be in the ballpark), a 20% or 25% tax on such "remittances" would generate more than $6 billion annually. That would pay for putting a lot of people to work building a whole lot of wall/fence.
I agree that the remittance idea at least has potential, others aren't so optimistic https://www.cato.org/blog/tax-remittances-wont-pay-border-wall (https://www.cato.org/blog/tax-remittances-wont-pay-border-wall)
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Regardless, we should not be giving Mexico trade benefits with the US while we have this immigration problem (not even mentioning the drug trade stuff).
Increased tariffs with Mexico (if kept small) wouldn't have a huge impact. The wire transfers of money is another matter. I hear that isn't taxed at all.
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we have this immigration problem
most of it is our problem.
It’s one thing to stress getting control of our borders. Even those who believe that immigration is a net positive for the nation agree that illegal immigration must be better policed. But cracking down on illegal immigration should mean getting our own house in order. It should mean policing all of our borders, not just the one with Mexico, and it should mean due diligence about visa overstays. Visitors who overstay their visas amount to at least half, and probably closer to 60 percent, of those entering the country illegally now. They arrive at airports, not across the Rio Grande. The great wave of illegal crossings from the south crested in 2007 and has declined steadily since. As immigration hawk Mark Krikorian noted in 2015, “Border crossings really are way down.” Well, some border crossings are way down, others not. More Mexicans cross the border heading south now than north. In other words, net migration from Mexico is negative.
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My interest in this right now is purely legal. Mayor of San Fran was on CNN spouting off about how they will sue .gov if any funds are withheld. I look forward to watching such a case happen. Will a federal judge find that local governments have a right to federal funding? Or will a federal judge laugh as the case is thrown out, ruling that cities have no right to federal funding? Should be fun to watch (for a warped mind like me who likes law stuff).
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Will a federal judge find that local governments have a right to federal funding? Or will a federal judge laugh as the case is thrown out, ruling that cities have no right to federal funding?
That may depend on which President appointed the judge.
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most of it is our problem.
Seattle is very far from the Mexican border. I have seen media interviews with local immigration/border personnel who state that the majority of illegal immigration in this area are people from Asia overstaying their tourist/student visas, and they all arrive by plane.
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Seattle is very far from the Mexican border. I have seen media interviews with local immigration/border personnel who state that the majority of illegal immigration in this area are people from Asia overstaying their tourist/student visas, and they all arrive by plane.
Ok so then give them the option of either a plane ticket home or a rowboat.
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I agree that the remittance idea at least has potential, others aren't so optimistic https://www.cato.org/blog/tax-remittances-wont-pay-border-wall (https://www.cato.org/blog/tax-remittances-wont-pay-border-wall)
So what? I'm sure one effect of taxing those "remittances" would be to significantly curtail the amount of money sent out of the United States to Mexico (and other Latin American countries). Money that isn't sent out of the country remains in the country (:duh:). I fail to see a downside in not sending billions of our dollars into other countries' economies with nothing gained in return.
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Seattle is very far from the Mexican border. I have seen media interviews with local immigration/border personnel who state that the majority of illegal immigration in this area are people from Asia overstaying their tourist/student visas, and they all arrive by plane.
Connecticut is pretty far from the Mexican border, too. Connecticut has a huge illegal alien population (in terms of percentage, not raw numbers), and that's mostly Hispanic. New Haven (think Yale University and you have your answer) is a sanctuary city. Danbury, CT, is notorious for having storefront operations where small contractors can drive up in the morning and "hire" workers by the day, right off the sidewalk. All paid in cash, no records, no paper trail.
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So what? I'm sure one effect of taxing those "remittances" would be to significantly curtail the amount of money sent out of the United States to Mexico (and other Latin American countries). Money that isn't sent out of the country remains in the country (:duh:). I fail to see a downside in not sending billions of our dollars into other countries' economies with nothing gained in return.
And how much of that money is the lawn guy sending money to his mother versus drug delivery mule wiring money back to his bosses.
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And how much of that money is the lawn guy sending money to his mother versus drug delivery mule wiring money back to his bosses.
Dunno.
Does it matter? Whoever sends it, for whatever reason, it's taken out of the U.S. economy.
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http://ctmirror.org/2017/01/25/ct-a-likely-target-of-trumps-new-immigration-policy/
Here's the way leftists view it:
Connecticut Attorney General George Jepsen said he is trying to determine if and how Trump’s actions would affect the state.
“My staff is reviewing the executive order and gathering other information, and so we are not in a position to comment in detail at this time,” Jepsen said. “I remain committed to taking action within my authority to protect Connecticut residents whose rights are threatened by this or other actions of the Trump Administration.”
I remain of the opinion that people who are in the U.S. illegally basically only have the right to not be beaten or starved while awaiting deportation. They categorically do NOT (IMHO) have any right to be protected by the state or municipal government from being held accountable for violating federal law. I might even go so far as to argue that, since they are not legal residents, they are technically not residents at all -- they are trespassers, or squatters.
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That may depend on which President appointed the judge.
USSC will be 5-4 (at least) by the time that suit wends it way up...
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USSC will be 5-4 (at least) by the time that suit wends it way up...
Not if Chuck Schumer has anything to say about it ...
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Not if Chuck Schumer has anything to say about it ...
There are at least 10 (IIRC) Democrat US Senators that are up for re-election in 2018 that come from red states. Schumer can can bluster all he wants, but those senators will be reading the tea leaves and counting votes back in their home states...
http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/306210-10-senate-seats-that-could-flip-in-2018
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Not if Chuck Schumer has anything to say about it ...
I've had it with Democrats blocking Trump's appointees, and potentially blocking appointment of justices. I think McConnell should just say, "Okay. Here's our nominee. No discussion or debate. We're taking a vote now, as we have a dozen appointees to confirm today".
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I've had it with Democrats blocking Trump's appointees, and potentially blocking appointment of justices. I think McConnell should just say, "Okay. Here's our nominee. No discussion or debate. We're taking a vote now, as we have a dozen appointees to confirm today".
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That would require McConnell to have gonads and a spine.
Indications have been that he lacks both.
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That would require McConnell to have gonads and a spine.
Indications have been that he lacks both.
Surprising practically everyone, he did stand firm on Obama's appointee. So there might be hope that McConnell has grown a pair. Much I think will depend on how much the pressure the Trumpsters put on Congress.