Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Kingcreek on August 07, 2017, 04:34:03 PM
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My wife wants to watch the August 21 total eclipse. We are in Illinois but not in the direct path for the total. We should get a good look at it weather permitting.
She asked me about eye protection since all the news outlets and local health dept etc are putting out their dire warnings.
I said no biggie- use my one of my (I have 2) 3M speedglass welding helmets. Auto darkening with adjustable shades (up to at least 12 IIRC). She is questioning me because all she hears is "special glasses" from the talking heads. C'mon if I can stare at the end of a 5/16 6010 electrode without injury, wouldn't it protect us from the bright star?
Also wondering if I can get some multiframe pic series with the digital SLR camera without risking some kind of damage to the sensors?
Thanks
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Further research (NASA website) indicates a welding shade 14 or darker is OK.
and the digital camera world seems to say expect damage without a solar filter.
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There are still a few places where you can get cheapo eclipse glasses on line but getting them in time is getting to be risk.
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I used shade #13 welding lenses to watch the eclipse in 1990-something, and it was uncomfortable to stare at the midday almost-total eclipse but not damaging. I took the same lenses out last week to show someone that they were not quite adequate, and we could look at the 16:00 sun just fine. (this reminds me, I need to stop by the welding shop and get a shade #6 to replace the #5 I currently have stacked with an #8.)
I haven't decided whether to drive a few hours south for this eclipse to get from 85% to 95%, or a few hours farther south from that (or west) to get to someplace it's total.
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I'll have to check my helmets and see but I typically use 12 and they probably go higher. Have to remember to set sensitivity to max.
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I'll have to check my helmets and see but I typically use 12 and they probably go higher. Have to remember to set sensitivity to max.
Also verify that your helmet will stay dark and not flash on and off. Mine won't stay dark with the sun as a light source, even though it will darken with a lightbulb.
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If it takes a shade 14 but these eclipse glasses are not nearly that dark (or even as dark as a shade 10) are they really providing protection?
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Walmart is an approved vendor for the Eclipse glasses.
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
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My local Lowe's has eclipse glasses from American Paper Optics. I picked some up there since Amazon seems to be inundated with fakes in the past few weeks. They're totally dark; you can't see anything through them except an orange ball for the sun.
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Might have to let my wife win this one and go with the silly paper glasses. I'll have my camera handy but only to take a pic of her with the silly glasses on her face.
My welding helmets go to 13 max and even with sensitivity set to max I don't know that it won't blink off close to the eclipse.
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I picked up a 10 pack at Amazon week before last.
That was before I heard all of the dire warnings about useless counterfeits.
I got the ones from Amazon, and there are a couple of pair that I'm certain are authentic based on information sent to me by American Paper Optics, but I ended up buying known entity glasses from Walmart.
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I wouldn't trust an auto-dark welding helmet for an eclipse. The danger of an eclipse is that so much of the sun is covered that you can actually look at it with the naked eye and your irises won't contract. But the amount of destructive radiation that enters is huge, so the retinas get burned without your even being aware of it -- until you realize that you can't see anything. I don't have any idea whether or not the auto-darkening lenses will react to the amount of light reaching Earth during a total or near-total eclipse. IMHO, I wouldn't take the chance.
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BHPhoto sells Ludt. I got my Amazon-sourced glasses, which turned out to be counterfeit, on Sunday. Within minutes, I had the return processed and my order placed with BH (free shipping). I'll have the glasses tomorrow. I also used the opportunity to buy some ND filters for my camera. :)
Chris
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Chris, how could you tell they were counterfeit?
Some of mine look authentic, but I have questions about several other pair.
Did Amazon try to charge you a return fee?
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No ISO markings on the glasses themselves.
Free return, I just had to print the shipping label provided by them.
Chris
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If they did have ISO markings, how would you know those weren't counterfeit? ???
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If they did have ISO markings, how would you know those weren't counterfeit? ???
I probably wouldn't, but in this case, they couldn't even get past that first quality gate.
Chris
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American Paper Optics send me some information on how to spot counterfeits, but as they admitted, it's not 100%
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I got these when they were still available for $10. As you can see by the link, besides them not being available now, Amazon's alternate suggestions are all around the $30 range now.
People are making a killing on this eclipse. I checked last night, and now hotels even hours away from totality are booked. I was thinking of staying in Twin Falls, ID or Logan, UT and then driving North around 0600 until I got to the totality zone or as close as traffic might let me before I get aggravated. Now I'm looking for other options because hotels there are booked. Even camping is up in the air for finding a spot. I think I'm going to play it by ear, be prepared to motel/drive/4x4 camp, and just see where I end up.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00KDGJ22I/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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The Ludts at BH are $8ish for a 4 pack. Even when I don't qualify for expedited shipping, they frequently get things from their NYC location to VA in less than a week.
Chris
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I had the name wrong and they've gone up in price a bit:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1312580-REG/lunt_solar_systems_bh_eclipsegls5_b_h_eclipse_glasses_5_pack.html
Chris
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I had no problem finding them at Walmart in the garden section. Had a big display of them. Buck a piece, and APO says Walmart is an authentic distributor.
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It never occurred to me to check at WM.
Chris
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A good auto helmet, no worries. I looked at flux core stainless all day today, has sunburned me through my shirt before, exposed skin is toast in five minutes. Sensitivity is there, helmet likes to act retarded when the morning sun comes in the window. Harbor Freight helmet? No thanks, I don't trust them for welding.
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I remember the eclipse when I was a kid in grade school- we watched it indirectly using a box turned on its side with a pinhole in the topside with a sheet of paper in the bottom.
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I remember the eclipse when I was a kid in grade school- we watched it indirectly using a box turned on its side with a pinhole in the topside with a sheet of paper in the bottom.
This. View the reflected image (or scattered, by wax paper or ground glass) via a high-f-stop system. Does not necessarily have to be a pinhole just a lens. After all, looking at a sheet of paper lying in sunlight doesn't hurt your eyes, and that's effectively f/1. F16: That's another factor of 100 or so attenuation plus reflection loss. I have been thinking about if I could Black out a room and make a real camera obscura, but I need to work out the angles.
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This. View the reflected image (or scattered, by wax paper or ground glass) via a high-f-stop system. Does not necessarily have to be a pinhole just a lens. After all, looking at a sheet of paper lying in sunlight doesn't hurt your eyes, and that's effectively f/1. F16: That's another factor of 100 or so attenuation plus reflection loss. I have been thinking about if I could Black out a room and make a real camera obscura, but I need to work out the angles.
You want to make a Scottish indie band?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gvlpo1uEi90
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Further research (NASA website) indicates a welding shade 14 or darker is OK.
For limited use like this, I generally used a 10 and a 5 stacked. Even better if you can find the 5 as glasses (wonderful product for migraine sufferers) and the 10 as a hood that works over them. 14s seem to disappear from Tractor Supply when there's a solar event on the calendar.
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I see where a hot cousin of mine( by marriage, put away your banjos) posted that her kid's school district is keeping all students indoors to avoid chance of eye damage. Nothing says education like skipping a scientific event, one with historical cultural ties, that the students will experience only once in their young lives. The parents are happy about the decision.
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I remember the eclipse when I was a kid in grade school- we watched it indirectly using a box turned on its side with a pinhole in the topside with a sheet of paper in the bottom.
Ah, the old Sunscope. I remember that back in the '60s. Large box, pinhole at one end, white paper at the other end, and a large, slightly offset hole you could stick your head into.
A really long focal length lens would work, too, as long as there are no internal foci. (Don't try using a riflescope unless you want to melt the reticle.)
Digital cameras will need a really dense ND filter in front of the lens to avoid damage.
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I remember the eclipse when I was a kid in grade school- we watched it indirectly using a box turned on its side with a pinhole in the topside with a sheet of paper in the bottom.
I think it was fifth grade. The teachers had procured about 10-15 refrigerator boxes. We all stood in line behind one of the boxes, stuck our heads in the hole on the side, and looked at the white piece of butcher paper on the ground inside the box.
Cool.
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Ah, the old Sunscope. I remember that back in the '60s. Large box, pinhole at one end, white paper at the other end, and a large, slightly offset hole you could stick your head into.
Even better; cut out the "back" wall of the box and stretch paper (or translucent plastic stencil material, or white fabric) over that. Rear projection viewer that several people can easily watch at once. I've seen one of these made from 36" Sonotube with a laser-cut pinhole in a metal top lid, stuck through a hole in a large sheet of fairly opaque tarp material, with a tripod and equatorial mount attachment for automated tracking. With everything tuned to get a roughly 24" solar disc with pretty impressive sharpness on the screen, (it was for a sunspot and solar prominence event, so having more than the disc visible was needed) it was the perfect covered solar theater.
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Got this email from Amazon regarding the glasses I bought from them:
We’re writing to provide you with important safety information about the eclipse products you purchased on Amazon (order #number for Supernova Solar Eclipse Glasses- CE and ISO Certified Safe Shades for Direct Sun Viewing, Great American Total Solar Eclipse on August 21, 2017 (Plastic - 4 Pack)).
To protect your eyes when viewing the sun or an eclipse, NASA and the American Astronomical Society (AAS) advise you to use solar eclipse glasses or other solar filters from recommended manufacturers. Viewing the sun or an eclipse using any other glasses or filters could result in loss of vision or permanent blindness.
Amazon has not received confirmation from the supplier of your order that they sourced the item from a recommended manufacturer. We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse.
Amazon is applying a balance for the purchase price to Your Account (please allow 7-10 days for this to appear on Your Account). There is no need for you to return the product. You can view your available balance and activity here
I've already returned mine and received a refund, so it'll be interesting to see if I also get the credit.
Chris
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My company is buying eclipse glasses but I have my welding helmet if we don't get them
We also get a paid hour break to watch it from 2:15-3:15
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I found out the local library has a quantity of free glasses via NASA or a grant from NASA. I'll pick up a pair on Monday. I have the welding helmets as a backup plan and can layer shades to safe levels.
We live on a 93% eclipse line and not willing to drive 3 hours for a total experience.
Gave up on getting my own images. Not worth risking the damage.
It'll prolly rain that day anyway.
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Gave up on getting my own images. Not worth risking the damage.
I was considering buying a solar filter for my camera, but decided I'd rather enjoy the experience with the kids than be fiddling with a camea.
It'll prolly rain that day anyway.
That's a concern as well. I'd hate to put a pile of cash into this only to have it cloudy that day.
Chris
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Got this email from Amazon regarding the glasses I bought from them:
I've already returned mine and received a refund, so it'll be interesting to see if I also get the credit.
Chris
Interesting. I got the same email.
The kicker though, is that Thousand Oaks Optical is approved on the NASA site. The Amazon email said that they did not get confirmation that they are approved, which doesn't necessarily mean they are not approved. I'm going to have to do some more digging to confirm that my exact item # is approved, but according to NASA, everything by the supplier is good to go.
Of course as crazy as this eclipse thing is getting, who knows if I'll even use them. Right now I've already dropped myself down to the 95% zone just based on my news feeds from OR, ID, WY regarding major traffic jams and potential gas shortages. At this rate, I might just end up watching the thing on the Internet. :laugh:
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I saw a total eclipse in 1978 or '79, while I was on SAC Alert with my KC135a tanker. Watched it with the aircraft sextant.
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I bought a pack of glasses from Amazon, and I have serious reservations about several pair. A few I think are legit, but I'm not going to trust them.
I've not gotten any messages from Amazon about the purchase.
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I received a notification from Amazon about the 1st batch I bought.
It didn't state that they were defective or unsafe, just not verified as properly certified.
Amazon has not received confirmation from the supplier of your order that they sourced the item from a recommended manufacturer. We recommend that you DO NOT use this product to view the sun or the eclipse
I had already taken one set out and looked at the sun through them. I don't think there is a problem with them.
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I was following up yesterday, and Iknow mine are good. All signs point to Amazon overreacting (which in this case is probably a good thing). On one of the tech sites, a guy posted that they refunded the money on the $150 solar filter he bought for his camera lens. I forgot the brand, but he seemed to know what he was talking about regarding astrophotography, and said the name brand filter came in proper packaging, etc. and was absolutely genunine.
So as mentioned above, it appears Amazon is just not taking chances, and is working off hearing back from their various resellers, versus actually checking the products their vendors are selling. So if a vendor didn't respond in time, Amazon defaulted to sending out the email and issuing a refund. That's gotta be costing them a boatload of money.
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I was following up yesterday, and Iknow mine are good. All signs point to Amazon overreacting (which in this case is probably a good thing). On one of the tech sites, a guy posted that they refunded the money on the $150 solar filter he bought for his camera lens. I forgot the brand, but he seemed to know what he was talking about regarding astrophotography, and said the name brand filter came in proper packaging, etc. and was absolutely genunine.
So as mentioned above, it appears Amazon is just not taking chances, and is working off hearing back from their various resellers, versus actually checking the products their vendors are selling. So if a vendor didn't respond in time, Amazon defaulted to sending out the email and issuing a refund. That's gotta be costing them a boatload of money.
Yeah. I'm guessing that the math here Amazon is doing is that a "Muh smoking eyebulbz!" class-action lawsuit would cost a supertanker of money.
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Supposedly more than a few people were ordering from Amazon and getting stuff marked Made in China, or stuff that wasn't marked at all. American Paper Optics doesn't manufacture in China, nor do they import from China.
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American Paper Optics doesn't manufacture in China, nor do they import from China.
That's who I got mine from. They have a website to help identify counterfeits:
https://www.eclipseglasses.com/pages/safety
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This where I got my viewing lenses, 1.99 each. A 10 and a 5 each for myself and my wife. Everyone else is hitting Lowe's and Home Depot (which are both sold out), they don't even think of the redneck supply store. They had all kinds of replacement lenses for welding helmets. =D
https://north40.com/?gclid=Cj0KEQjw2s_MBRC5mpTGvM2F4bUBEiQAmWIac7QOVy5gPHzSRSGckBlgzhkQ9f9TYJOTTfgI2Th6f8IaAmJL8P8HAQ
bob
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My boss has been talking about this for weeks, and now she's waited too long, everyone is sold out, and she's freaking the hell out.
Prices have spiked incredibly on the paper glasses.
I bought a pack from Amazon a couple weeks ago, but then I started hearing about all of the counterfeits, and now I'm nervous to use the ones I got from Amazon. She's asking me to bring them in for her, but I'm just not sure if I should. I don't want to be responsible if they are counterfeit and she or her kids end up with vision damage.
I've checked out the different sites that say how to tell counterfeits, and the ones I got from Amazon seem to be authentic, but I'm still nervous.
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Heh, just checking the weather, and Eastern Idaho, and Western WY which were supposed to get a ton of people due to the previous predictions on likely weather, especially around Jackson and the Tetons, are right now listed as "partly sunny". That should be interesting.
My plan right now is overnighting in Coalville UT, then driving Northish into Idaho past the Blackfoot Reservoir on backroads, potentially to Bone. Depends on if things are crazy and how crazy. I'm prepared to call it quits anywhere along the route if it gets too irritating. The least I should get is 96% (if it's not cloudy). I'm bringing my fishing poles for the fallback plan and for fishing my way home through the week. :laugh:
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My boss has been talking about this for weeks, and now she's waited too long, everyone is sold out, and she's freaking the hell out.
Prices have spiked incredibly on the paper glasses.
I bought a pack from Amazon a couple weeks ago, but then I started hearing about all of the counterfeits, and now I'm nervous to use the ones I got from Amazon. She's asking me to bring them in for her, but I'm just not sure if I should. I don't want to be responsible if they are counterfeit and she or her kids end up with vision damage.
I've checked out the different sites that say how to tell counterfeits, and the ones I got from Amazon seem to be authentic, but I'm still nervous.
Use them to look at the sun (briefly) on a sunny early-afternoon. You'll be able to tell if they work.
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technically you can't. Because they could be passing all kinds of retina-searing IR and UV which you can't see at all, so actually looking through glasses to assess their safety is pointless. I have IR camera filters that appear totally opaque to the naked eye. Look through them with an IR camera and they appear transparent like clear glass. That's the whole thing.
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Recent news report is that the Colorado State Patrol is expecting every Northbound highway will be jammed up and they will put extra Troopers on the roads.
BTW, Troopers seem to appreciate it if you call them Troopers. May count for a few points in your favor if you're stopped. Sort of like calling a Marine a Marine, and not a "soldier."
Son2 got a rotating variable ND filter for his big lens. Runs from ND 3 to ND 300, he says. He's experimenting to find out where to set it.
Terry
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"technically you can't."
This.
Very few places in the US have the equipment needed to test these lenses to ensure that they are safe.
Counterfeit ones can act like certified lenses but can still allow dangerous amounts of UV radiation to pass through.
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https://youtu.be/yoMEbDcFK7U
TOP 10 ECLIPSE DAY Things to know (please share) - Smarter Every Day 174
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For limited use like this, I generally used a 10 and a 5 stacked. Even better if you can find the 5 as glasses (wonderful product for migraine sufferers) and the 10 as a hood that works over them. 14s seem to disappear from Tractor Supply when there's a solar event on the calendar.
For anyone interested, I think this is the calc for stacked welding optics:
Effective Shade Number = S+(S-1)
Brad
p.s. - Someone please confirm before anyone burns out their eyeballs based on my spotty memory...
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"technically you can't."
This.
Very few places in the US have the equipment needed to test these lenses to ensure that they are safe.
Counterfeit ones can act like certified lenses but can still allow dangerous amounts of UV radiation to pass through.
Would it be better to just go to an industrial supply and get the right type of welding goggles?
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I picked up the ones from the local library that they received on a grant from NASA.
I think they are defective. Can't see a damn thing through em.
Many places including the library are having eclipse parties.
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Would it be better to just go to an industrial supply and get the right type of welding goggles?
Yes. I went to the local one a few days ago and they still had lenses -- but obviously no shade 14's. A guy at work said he went there today and they were picked clean.
I have a 5, 8, 9, and 10 here in my office. (I'll start with the 5+10, and if that's too dim switch the 10 to a 9) And an old pair of brazing goggles at home with an unmarked lens (probably a 4 or 5), and I don't know what my arc welding hood has in it right now (probably a 10 or 12)
You might could goto someplace like Harbor Freight and get three shade 5's and stack them.
#5 is very common for brazing or cutting; don't remember which.
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https://youtu.be/yoMEbDcFK7U
TOP 10 ECLIPSE DAY Things to know (please share) - Smarter Every Day 174
FWDED. Now I gotta look up those ground snake shadows (#6). Never heard of them
TNX,
Terry
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Now I gotta look up those ground snake shadows (#6). Never heard of them before.
...
Terry
Shadow bands (shadow snakes) and other facts pretty well covered such as C1-C4, etc. This guy is pretty good; first time I've seen one of his videos:
http://kgab.com/watch-out-for-creepy-shadow-snakes-during-wyomings-eclipse-video/
Shadow Bands: 4:20 ff
From the description, with its rarity and brevity, it reminds me a little of the "Green Flash" phenomenon, which is also rare and brief and only occurs just as the sun is peeping over an unobscured horizon, sunrise or sunset. I wonder if it's related to the spikes of light from the corona or Bailey's Beads.
Hm. I guess I'll leave that one to the pro astronomers and diffraction experts. Strikes me that it's a diffraction effect modified by the shifting of the atmosphere, like in the way a distant jet plane's sound comes and goes. Except with light waves instead of sound waves. Somehow. Or other.
There is an app for precise (and verbal) locations and times available on the app store: "solar eclipse timer" is its name, see around 12:52 in the cited video.
Parenthetical remarks and ETAs:
(It's interesting to me that the observation of wildlife behavior has only now been discussed --or only this time around that I know of and I never fail to mention it. That was the primary surprise when we went to see the total in Maine back in the '60s. The forest seemed to go dead silent. That one was a cloudy one, so very disappointing. But you plays the cards you gots.)
(I just got word from Son2 that the glasses he gave me were part of the Amazon refund. Drat. I guess it's back to pinhole camera time at my 93% viewing area. Or I've got an old pair of 1.25 driving glasses I could pull the lens out of and stop down to 1/8" or 1/16th" and set up a screen 31.496" away:
39.37" (one Meter) ÷ 1.25 (diopters of glasses) = 31.496" focal length if I'm figgerin' right. Well, call it 31-1/2" anyhow.
With that lens, a 1/8" pinhole would be equivalent to an f-number of 252, 1/16" would be f 504 of course (doubled).
Double-drat. 'Sperimink time today! And I had planned to vacuum the floors. )
Terry, 230RN
REF (Green Flash):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_flash
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Know what I'm gonna do during this eclipse? Sit in this here chair. I'm still good from the one I saw back in Mar 7, 1970.
Handy tool here: https://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/in/usa/shreveport