Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Chester32141 on August 08, 2017, 08:17:38 AM
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I own an older home that I visit twice a week . I've had this arrangement for about 5 years and my water bill runs about $60 for 500 gallons a month .... last month the water company gave me a bill for $972 claiming I used over 57,000 gals of water .... The bill is paid automatically and I admit I seldom look at the bill since it has always been so consistent .... the meter does show 57,000 gals used and the water company claims I have a leak (I do, about 10 gal a day, probably from outside the home) .... Water company says a toilet can leak up to 200 gals of water a day but that is 1/10 of 57,000 for the month ... I am obviously getting ripped off .... I've spoken to supervisors to no avail .... does anyone have any suggestions how I can address this and get my $$ back ?
:old:
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Is it possible they have been "estimating" your usage for quite awhile and someone actually got off their ass and read the meter and caught you up?
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You need to determine where your meter is, and you need to have the line checked for leaks.
The easiest way to get an idea is if your meter is readable. Look at it. If it's spinning, and nothing in the house is using water, you have a leak.
You need to determine the cause before you can pursue reimbursement. Many water companies will work with you on a bill AFTER you have the root cause of the issue fixed.
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I would say the water company is blowing smoke when they tell you a toilet can "leak" 200 gallons per day. That's 8.33 gallons per hour, or slightly more than one pint per minute. That's not a leak -- that's a geyser.
Is this house occupied? If you can't (or don't feel like) repair(ing) the leaking toilet, just shut it off for a month or two and see what happens.
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"I would say the water company is blowing smoke when they tell you a toilet can "leak" 200 gallons per day. That's 8.33 gallons per hour, or slightly more than one pint per minute."
They're not in the least blowing smoke.
If the flapper sticks open, it's essentially free flow at upwards 200+ gallons an hour.
Even what appears to be a relatively minor leak from a corroded flapper can flow an amazing amount of water that you really don't notice.
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I was editing my post while Mike was posting.
Yes, a flapper that's stuck open would allow a LOT of water to pass through. But that's not what I would consider a "leak," that's what I call "broken." You would (or should) hear that, not like a drip or a small leak, but as running water.
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You need to determine where your meter is, and you need to have the line checked for leaks.
The easiest way to get an idea is if your meter is readable. Look at it. If it's spinning, and nothing in the house is using water, you have a leak.
Yup.
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I am able to read the meter .... meters are read electronically .... a utility worker came out dug up the meter and left a note saying that I had a leak .... I took readings 24/48/72 hrs apart and determined that there is a leak of approximately 10 gallons a day .... that's a far cry from 1900 gallons a day ... 57000 is the equivalent of 4 average size swimming pools ... If it leaked inside I'd see it and if it leaked outside I would have a sinkhole under my house .... yet all I hear is ... you leaked 57,000 gallons, from the Utility company. Next bill should be out shortly and will be for the usual 500 gals unless there is slight of hand done to make it appear higher ...
:facepalm:
I don't have a leaking toilet ... I have no visible signs of leakage inside the house .... The leaky toilet was offered up as the most likely source by the Utility company. The house is empty except for my twice weekly visits ...
The Utility company claims that a free flowing toilet would waste 200 gals a day ...
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Where is the meter in relation to the house? If the "usage" is showing up on the meter, the leak has to be on the house side of the meter. If the house isn't full of water, then it has to be outside. How much digging would be required to expose the meter and the pipe into the house to inspect for leaks?
How old is the meter? Has the water company checked that?
A typical shower (older) uses around 3 gallons per minute. Over 24 hours, that's 4320 gallons per day. So they're telling you that you have something that's using the equivalent of leaving a modern, 1.5 gallon/minute shower running 24/7.
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Barring working out this bill discrepancy and verifying if you have a leak or not, if the house is empty, any reason not to just shut off the water heater and turn off the water at the main when you're not there?
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I guess if you are able, you could shut off the water to the house and see if it keeps leaking, but that is only if you can read the meter. Mine has a metal lid over it and it is right next to the main shut off valve.
I had a cracked line just outside the house some years back. I think my bill was $150. I thought it was a pretty good leak and there was noticeable mud and water at one corner of the house. I would think that much water would not go unnoticed.
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Could someone be stealing it? That happened to me at my rental one month. Caught the bastards with a game camera.
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Unfortunately the short answer is that if the meter shows it, you owe them the money. The utility company's responsibility ends, and the homeowner's begins, at the meter. It doesn't matter what happens, where it happens, or how it happens, if it's on your side of the meter then you're stuck with it.
First things first... shut off everything and check the meter, both for leak indications and for accuracy of the reading. If it indicates a leak then engage the Calibrated Mk1 Eyeball and start system checks. If it shows full stop then it sounds like someone's been pilfering your H2O. Any of the neighbors within hose distance have a pool?
Brad
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Could someone be stealing it? That happened to me at my rental one month. Caught the bastards with a game camera.
Oh, that's a great point. I had the same thing happen at one of my rentals for a while. The neighbor's landscaper was using my water.
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I got a call from the Utility company last month that I had used 10 times my normal amount of water.
They asked me if I had added a pool or anything like that.
The answer was no, of course. They sent a worker to check the meter- someone had transposed the numbers and we were perfectly in line with our normal usage.
Have them check it again, if they haven't already.
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Thanks for the input .... I'm thinking it was pilfered ... would anyone have an idea how long it takes a 5/8" garden hose to move 1000 gallons with good pressure ...
[popcorn]
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Easy answer. Fill a gallon jug and time it. You know how long it takes for a gallon to flow. Then do the math.
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Thanks for the input .... I'm thinking it was pilfered ... would anyone have an idea how long it takes a 5/8" garden hose to move 1000 gallons with good pressure ...
[popcorn]
My parents have a well that sometimes gets low so they will come a few times a year to fill a 750 Gallon container at my house to use for watering, topping off their Koi pond, etc. It takes about 35 to 40 mins or so to fill from my well through a 5/8" garden hose. I can't speak to the exact pressures involved if it would be higher with public water vs. my well for example, but for a point of reference.
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Barring working out this bill discrepancy and verifying if you have a leak or not, if the house is empty, any reason not to just shut off the water heater and turn off the water at the main when you're not there?
^^^^^^^^^^This.
If I leave for a weekend or longer, I shut off the water heater and the water. My parents had a washing machine hose break. Fortunately, the washer was inside, right next to the garage, so the only damage was to the utility room floor and the wall between to the garage. Neighbors caught it when water was cascading down my parents driveway.
Hell, my water bill is usually about 200 Cubic ft/month* for the two of us. Sometimes it's only 100 Cubic ft.
*- most places do gallons, but around here everyone does hundreds of cubic feet. I don't know why. 200cft= about 1500 gallons.
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I never thought about someone taking that much water, but I imagine the temptation is there after being billed for filling up the pool a couple times.
I guess you could have a neighbor kid who thinks he is Professor Chaos.
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Could someone be stealing it? That happened to me at my rental one month. Caught the bastards with a game camera.
Agreed. Boy, if you could prove it, wouldn't that approach felony theft with that amount of money involved?
"Make restitution, or I'll file on you.''
The trouble is, now that they've seen the water company people out there, and you fussing around the meter, they're probably aware that you've spotted the problem and will lay off, at least until next summer.
Don't know the weather out there, but do people drain their pools for the winter? If you can correlate empty-pool / dry pool with low bills / high bills, you might have a start toward proof. Or at least claim you have proof when you approach them for restitution.
If you can provide some kind of evidence, you might approach the water company again with the idea that they forgive the debt because you don't want to go after the neighbor legally, since you're not there, and they might commit vandalism on your property while you're gone. Some folks' minds work that way: "He turned me in, so I must exact vengeance on him."
I'm sure you're not the only one who's been in that boat, so I would ask the water people how they've handled that kind of problem in the past.
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Thanks for the input .... I'm thinking it was pilfered ... would anyone have an idea how long it takes a 5/8" garden hose to move 1000 gallons with good pressure ...
[popcorn]
Figure roughly 15 GPM at average residential pressure so a little under an hour.
Brad
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If you can provide some kind of evidence, you might approach the water company again with the idea that they forgive the debt because you don't want to go after the neighbor legally, since you're not there, and they might commit vandalism on your property while you're gone. Some folks' minds work that way: "He turned me in, so I must exact vengeance on him."
Heck, if I had an unoccupied property, I'd definitely have at least a couple of game cameras around it anyway, just on principle.
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Your second post said they dug up the meter. Why? Was the lake there?
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Another option is they make lockable covers that you can put over your outside water valves.
https://www.grainger.com/product/ABILITY-ONE-Gate-Valve-Lockout-52ND74?breadcrumbCatId=5537&functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
https://www.grainger.com/product/ACCUFORM-Gate-Valve-Lockout-10K122?breadcrumbCatId=5537&functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
These links are for safety lockouts on larger gate valves, but they probably sell something for garden hose valves also. I never looked for them at Lowes. Might be worth a few dollars to make it more difficult if you think theft is the cause.
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Another option is they make lockable covers that you can put over your outside water valves.
https://www.grainger.com/product/ABILITY-ONE-Gate-Valve-Lockout-52ND74?breadcrumbCatId=5537&functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
https://www.grainger.com/product/ACCUFORM-Gate-Valve-Lockout-10K122?breadcrumbCatId=5537&functionCode=P2IDP2PCP
These links are for safety lockouts on larger gate valves, but they probably sell something for garden hose valves also. I never looked for them at Lowes. Might be worth a few dollars to make it more difficult if you think theft is the cause.
Or be sneaky and install shutoffs for the exterior hose bibbs somewhere in the basement (if there is a basement).
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Another thought: our water company can tell when we are using water. Is yours not there yet?
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