Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Brad Johnson on October 09, 2017, 10:24:55 PM
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Texas Tech University PD officer shot and killed by a student. TTU PD brought the student in for questioning after a welfare check uncovered drug paraphernalia in the student's dorm room.
http://m.kcbd.com/kcbd/db/331352/content/IvergnT7
Campus is on lockdown. Campus-wide shelter in place notice in effect. No other info at this time. At home but on every electronic comms device I own trying to make sure my crews and all our students have.gotten word.
Brad
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Lubbock PD has confirmed the suspect is in custody. Apprehension was less than a quarter mile from the TTU PD station.
Updated information is that the suspect pulled his own weapon during questioning.
Brad
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Wow. I'm guessing the sex toy brigade will savor this for a long time to come. (Yeah, he probably didn't have a carry permit, but that won't matter.)
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(Yeah, he probably didn't have a carry permit, but that won't matter.)
Information is that the suspect was 19. Minimum age for LTC in Texas is 21. Won't matter, though. The anti campus-carry crowd is going to have a field day.
Brad
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Information is that the suspect was 19. Minimum age for LTC in Texas is 21. Won't matter, though. The anti campus-carry crowd is going to have a field day.
Poster child for why lawful students should be allowed to carry. The law breakers obviously aren't going to follow the law, so why should the law-abiding be at a disadvantage.
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TTU PD brought a suspect in without a frisk? How does a gun get by....or don't campus police search for weapons? ???
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TTU PD brought a suspect in without a frisk? How does a gun get by....or don't campus police search for weapons? ???
Rest asssured that question is already being asked on several levels.
Brad
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Poster child for why lawful students should be allowed to carry. The law breakers obviously aren't going to follow the law, so why should the law-abiding be at a disadvantage.
:rofl: :rofl:
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TTU PD brought a suspect in without a frisk? How does a gun get by....or don't campus police search for weapons? ???
Rest asssured that question is already being asked on several levels.
Brad
Maybe he used Nicaraguan Carry... that is, lower than Mexican Carry.
Terry runs and hides...
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It's hard to figure out how this actually started from the news stories I've seen and heard.
Was the student/perp screaming in pain, shouting for help, or in some other obvious distress, or did the campus cops use "Welfare Check" as an excuse to search & seize from a suspected druggie without a warrant?
He was "brought in for questioning" . . . was he actually under arrest (and Mirandized) at the time, or did they obtain his consent for transport & questioning without arresting and Mirandizing him when they hauled him in?
No matter what, it's really sad when an LEO dies in the line of duty . . . but since it's clear that the campus cops dropped the ball on searching the perp, I'm wondering if the campus cops were following proper police procedures during the rest of this encounter.
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Was the student/perp screaming in pain, shouting for help, or in some other obvious distress, or did the campus cops use "Welfare Check" as an excuse to search & seize from a suspected druggie without a warrant?
As I recall from my short stint in the dorms almost 20 years ago, the agreement you sign to live in the dorms consents to searches and checks by campus security/PD and the RA's. If that was true then in my tiny little school, I'd suspect it's even more true now.
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No matter what, it's really sad when an LEO dies in the line of duty . . .
True, and this is something I should have mentioned in my earlier response. I don't suppose his family will ever read this, but I belatedly offer my condolences.
(I don't complain about people "politicizing" events, as I do it, myself.)
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As I recall from my short stint in the dorms almost 20 years ago, the agreement you sign to live in the dorms consents to searches and checks by campus security/PD and the RA's. If that was true then in my tiny little school, I'd suspect it's even more true now.
This.
That being said, dorm rooms are tiny. With very little exception everything is in full view from the doorway. Unless it was in a drawer, closet, or enclosure, drug paraphernalia would be openly visible from the moment he answered the door.
No matter what, it's really sad when an LEO dies in the line of duty . . . but since it's clear that the campus cops dropped the ball on searching the perp, I'm wondering if the campus cops were following proper police procedures during the rest of this encounter.
Lubbock PD and Texas DPS have been called in. I would be surprised if the DPS doesn't take point. TTU PD simply doesn't have the resources for this kind of thing.
The whole campus is reeling. Sure, Lubbock has it's share of criminal stupidity but the TTU campus is a relatively genteel place. Something like this is so foreign that people will be a long time wrapping their heads around the fact that it actually happened.
Brad
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I honestly don't remember the agreements I signed to live on campus, but I suspect that part of it was acceptance of entry/searches.
I know that at the start of break periods RAs would do a final sweep to make sure that everything was unplugged and secured.
We were allowed to keep our fridges plugged in, but the idiot RA unplugged mine anyway and everything in it rotted. I went absolute apeshit on him and filed a complaint with the Dean of Residential Life (complete with pictures) because it was a college owned rental fridge and they had a policy that if it was returned dirty, you paid a big fee, and this thing was unbelievably gross after 2 weeks being closed up.
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*Update*
http://www.fox34.com/story/36556997/student-arrested-after-texas-tech-police-officer-killed-on-campus
http://www.kcbd.com/story/36561657/im-the-one-who-shot-your-friend-accused-shooter-charged-with-capital-murder-officer-identified
According to the story the officer was processing an arrest. Back turned to the suspect, no cuffs. Probably thinking he was giving the kid a break by treating him nicely.
People wonder why cops tend to err on the side of extreme caution when dealing with suspects, up to and including physicality and use of restraints even when they don't seem needed. Well... case and point.
Brad
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Case in point, actually.
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Did the suspect have the gun or did he grab and use the Officers sidearm ?
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He was "brought in for questioning" . . . was he actually under arrest (and Mirandized) at the time, or did they obtain his consent for transport & questioning without arresting and Mirandizing him when they hauled him in?
Either way, I've been frisked before sitting in the front seat of a cop's car to wait out of the sun for a wrecker. He let me keep my pocket knife, but verified that I still had it on me when I got out; that way he knew no weapons got left in the car.
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Suspect's gun. According to reports the officer's gun was still in his holster after the suspect fled. Spotty reports about a gun being recovered near where the perp was apprehended.
Brad
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Did the suspect have the gun or did he grab and use the Officers sidearm ?
He had it. The officer that responded to the gunshot found the dead officer's firearm still in the holster and a single case on the floor.
According to the story the officer was processing an arrest. Back turned to the suspect, no cuffs. Probably thinking he was giving the kid a break by treating him nicely.
What I read was that the shooter wasn't even being arrested. He was being given a standard no-arrest "anti-drug" briefing by the police hoping to scare them straight because sending college students to jail over minor stuff helps nobody. They found evidence of drugs and drug paraphernalia, not actual illegal drugs. Ergo, misdemeanor and probably a hard one to prosecute because a lot of college student's parents can come up with the money for a good lawyer if necessary.
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^^^Wow. Well, the young man's life is screwed now, as he did to the police officer. This being Texas and the death of a LE officer, I have no doubt that he will be getting a lethal injection some years down the road.
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Charged with capital murder as of this afternoon. $5 mil bail.
I'm putting money on a plea of guilty and some legal maneuvering to get him a slightly lesser charge. The evidence against him is just too overwhelming for any attorney worth his J.D. to recommend otherwise. This, plus his prior run ins with the law (minor and mostly drug-related, from what I've seen) would have a jury handing him his behind in short order. Sure, they could play the under-the-influence or psychiatric condition cards but it better be damned impressive. The uber-conservative juries in these parts tend to dislike that defense tactic short of something overt, blatant, and easily observed.
There seems no premeditation and it has all the hallmarks of a spur-of-the-moment act. I could see his attorney making a valid run at second-degree murder in exchange for a guilty plea. If they were feeling lucky they might even try manslaughter. However, I don't see a judge giving that more than about 1.7 microseconds consideration before laughing them out of the court room.
Also... in all this I forgot to add that the TTU PD station is about 500' from my office. Had I stayed late as usual I would have been witness to much of what happened. I also missed the lock down by a span of mere minutes because my professor let out class a little early. If I have the timing correct I was driving by the PD building at pretty much the exact moment the shot rang out. =(
Brad
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Sure, they could play the under-the-influence or psychiatric condition cards but it better be damned impressive. The uber-conservative juries in these parts tend to dislike that defense tactic short of something overt, blatant, and easily observed.
Irrelevant, really; remember that in Texas insanity is less a defense than a delaying tactic. It would win him a stay in the looney bin until a shrink says he's fit to stand trial, (if ever) and then maybe get him a possibility of parole in 10-20 more years if he can keep them convinced he was truly out of his mind at the time.
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Does death of an LEO bump up the murder charges to capital? I thought they had to prove premeditated to get capital murder and death penalty eligibility.
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Quick revisit because the trial just ended. Sorry sack of *expletive deleted*it got life without parole.
https://www.kcbd.com/2023/02/25/jury-sentences-hollis-daniels-life-prison/
Brad
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Up until sometime in the 1950's, England had a mandatory death penalty for almost all murderers (not just first degree murders either). Sentences were carried out swiftly.
If the USA were serious about violent crime, we would do the same.
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Up until sometime in the 1950's, England had a mandatory death penalty for almost all murderers (not just first degree murders either). Sentences were carried out swiftly.
If the USA were serious about violent crime, we would do the same.
It seems that today no punishment is carried out swiftly for actual criminal acts beyond pre-trial confinement.
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It seems that today no punishment is carried out swiftly for actual criminal acts beyond pre-trial confinement.
And no punishment short of death is a deterrent to future crimes.
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The death penalty is not, and never has been, a deterrent. The anti crowd likes to claim that, because it's not a deterrent, it should be abolished.
The death penalty is, always has been, and always should be, the ultimate punishment for the most serious crimes.
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Regardless of what the punishment is, even if it is light, we should get the investigation done quickly, get the trial done quickly, and give out the punishment quickly. Doing the trial a year or two later is meaningless to young criminals who see that as the distant future.
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Justice delayed is justice denied.