Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on October 23, 2017, 08:06:56 PM
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Not. At least according to Ben. I have no idea why this girl apologized. I'm pretty sure the idea of the "dark soul" or "black soul" has been in literature, not only Western, but global, for hundreds if not thousands of years. People need to get a life.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/23/lili-reinhart-apologizes-for-racially-insensitive-halloween-tweet.html
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People are way too quick to apologize for stuff like this. A better response is GFY (not "good for you", the other one)
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Another example of people seeking out opportunities to claim hurtful language, where none exists.
I agree, she should not have apologized. She could have appropriately used the word "sorry," though -- as in "I'm genuinely sorry so many of you are that terminally stupid."
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Not. At least according to Ben. I have no idea why this girl apologized. I'm pretty sure the idea of the "dark soul" or "black soul" has been in literature, not only Western, but global, for hundreds if not thousands of years. People need to get a life.
As the article suggests, it's the "blackface" interpretation of the costume that's been deemed offensive. And, well, duh.
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As the article suggests, it's the "blackface" interpretation of the costume that's been deemed offensive. And, well, duh.
Dark souls can only have white faces? Death must have a white face? The devil can only be white? ??? >:D
Well, obviously the last one is correct. =D
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I finally found what I think is (was) the photo. To equate this with "blackface" is a REEEEEAAAAL stretch:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DMuZ2g8UIAAi7bO.jpg)
Especially when you look at Lili's history of Halloween costumes
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Getting upset about this says more about the person getting upset than it does about anyone else.
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I finally found what I think is (was) the photo. To equate this with "blackface" is a REEEEEAAAAL stretch:
We are talking about a white girl painting her face black, yes? That's a stretch? ???
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We are talking about a white girl painting her face black, yes? That's a stretch? ???
Yes it is a stretch. Painting one's face black is not the same as doing a blackface impersonation. This girl painted her face black as part of her "dark soul" Halloween costume. That costume has nothing to do with black people.
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Yes it is a stretch. Painting one's face black is not the same as doing a blackface impersonation. This girl painted her face black as part of her "dark soul" Halloween costume. That costume has nothing to do with black people.
Yes, this is where I am coming from. In a costume, I'm wondering what better way there would be to express the idea. Does she need to carry a sign that says, "black soul inside"?
It's seems pretty clear that for anyone not looking for a fight, that the makeup was absolutely not designed to mimic a black person. As I said in the OP, there is literature throughout history describing the dark soul or a dark evil, and depictions are almost always a dark being. Not a black person originating from Africa, but a dark being, usually looking like some form of the devil or a demon.I don't ever recall any that I have seen having negroid features.
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Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.
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That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.
I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/
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I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/
One thing I notice (that wasn't in the twitter reactions) is that the same people who claimed that Black (Red, Yellow, Green) children cannot connect with a "hero" (or princess) of different race are now screaming to the skies about White children connecting with a "hero" (or princess) of a different race.
Faced with a clear rebuke of their deepest held beliefs... they ignore that rebuke and double down on oppression.
(Edited because Ben posted the article while I was typing.
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Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.
What if I paint my face yellow? Is that racist?
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Racist Minion:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5Xm286zl4CE/maxresdefault.jpg)
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it would appear that everyone in America is aggrieved these days.
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I think that's a slightly different argument. More in line with what's apparently going on with this current flap of little white girls not being allowed to dress up as Disney's Moana for Halloween.
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2017/10/23/cosmopolitan-tries-to-put-the-kibosh-on-white-girls-dressing-like-disneys-moana/
But it's perfectly okay for black people and Hispanics to dress up as OEWM (Olde European White Men) on Broadway.
Double standard much? But that's what we expect from the liberals and SJWs, so we shouldn't be surprised.
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But it's perfectly okay for black people and Hispanics to dress up as OEWM (Olde European White Men) on Broadway.
Double standard much? But that's what we expect from the liberals and SJWs, so we shouldn't be surprised.
:laugh: Excellent point. Only white people can be racist. ;/
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I'd paint my face red, white, and blue for Halloween but I don't want there to be even the slightest chance of being mistaken for a Frenchman.
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Of course it's not the same thing as the old blackface minstrel show act. That still doesn't mean you should be surprised that you offend people, if you're white, and you paint your face black. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it, though.
You SHOULD be surprised, except we've gotten to the point that any little thing can be offensive. And she didn't just paint her face black, she did stuff with her hands too, and also her whole custom and hair style.
And that's also ignoring that actual blackface isn't racist to begin with.
It's seems pretty clear that for anyone not looking for a fight, that the makeup was absolutely not designed to mimic a black person. As I said in the OP, there is literature throughout history describing the dark soul or a dark evil, and depictions are almost always a dark being. Not a black person originating from Africa, but a dark being, usually looking like some form of the devil or a demon.I don't ever recall any that I have seen having negroid features.
The Black Man is also a witches thing to describe the devil when signing over their soul.
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You SHOULD be surprised, except we've gotten to the point that any little thing can be offensive. And she didn't just paint her face black, she did stuff with her hands too, and also her whole custom and hair style.
I've already stipulated that it's not exactly like "blackface." That's no reason to pretend this is like a banana peel in a tree. Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.
And that's also ignoring that actual blackface isn't racist to begin with.
I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.
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I've already stipulated that it's not exactly like "blackface." That's no reason to pretend this is like a banana peel in a tree. Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.
I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.
I don't think we should be so quick to just give in and stop doing things because some idiot who doesn't know any better, or actually probably does, gets offended.
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Sometimes, in the real world, innocent things offend people. Sometimes you quit doing that thing, just to be considerate. How terrible.
Sometimes an innocent act is truly, unintentionally offensive. In such cases, it is appropriate to quit doing that, and to apologize.
On the other hand, sometimes an innocent act is an innocent act that no rational person would deem offensive, but certain parties who have made their life purpose the finding of "offenses" where no offenses have occurred demand apologies (and, often, more) where there was no actual offense.
We need to be cognizant of the difference, and not surrender to the latter.
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Sometimes an innocent act is truly, unintentionally offensive. In such cases, it is appropriate to quit doing that, and to apologize.
On the other hand, sometimes an innocent act is an innocent act that no rational person would deem offensive, but certain parties who have made their life purpose the finding of "offenses" where no offenses have occurred demand apologies (and, often, more) where there was no actual offense.
We need to be cognizant of the difference, and not surrender to the latter.
I don't think we should be so quick to just give in and stop doing things because some idiot who doesn't know any better, or actually probably does, gets offended.
All points I agree with. I just happen to think that a white person putting black paint on their face is one of those, "well this will obviously be viewed by a lot of people as in poor taste, so let's not" kinds of things.
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I don't know whether or not that's true, but just for the sake of argument, I'll go along with it. If true, it's like a lot of allegedly racist terms, such as "Negro" or "Jap." There's nothing racist about those terms, but you know if you use them, folks will be offended. Most adults (I think) still know what "bastard" and "bitch" literally mean, but I know people will be offended if I use their literal meanings in conversation. So I generally do not. There's no percentage in it.
Why are you being so niggardly with your words ??
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All points I agree with. I just happen to think that a white person putting black paint on their face is one of those, "well this will obviously be viewed by a lot of people as in poor taste, so let's not" kinds of things.
I don't think this is the same as what you are thinking of though.
I could care less if a black/brown skinned person wore white face. =D
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I don't think this is the same as what you are thinking of though.
I could care less if a black/brown skinned person wore white face. =D
Dave Chappelle tried this in his "pixies" sketch. The whitefaced pixie wasn't funny. It wasn't offensive either, it just didn't work. (there's probably some deep meaning there) The black and Asian pixies were funny. A Mexican pixie would probably be funny too, but he didn't go there.
The black pixie was the character that killed the show. ;/ Chappelle offended himself with it (actually, a white audience member laughed a little too much, or something like that) and quit the show.
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I don't think this is the same as what you are thinking of though.
What do you mean? What was I thinking of?
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I think the confusion here is the conflation between black the skin pigmentation and black the actual color.
It's getting to the point where black the color is often interpreted as racist, depending on who's using it, which, IMHO, is wrong.
In this case, the chick was going for black the color, not black the skin pigmentation.
It's a freeking color. This isn't rocket science and there was no need for anyone to be offended.
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I think the confusion here is the conflation between black the skin pigmentation and black the actual color.
It's getting to the point where black the color is often interpreted as racist, depending on who's using it, which, IMHO, is wrong.
In this case, the chick was going for black the color, not black the skin pigmentation.
It's a freeking color. This isn't rocket science and there was no need for anyone to be offended.
It's an opportunity for people who want to be offended. "Dark soul" chick was doing them a favor; they should show a little gratitude.
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http://babylonbee.com/news/nations-zombie-population-complains-halloween-costume-cultural-appropriation/
Speaking at a press conference Monday, the representatives for the nation’s population of flesh-eating, undead zombies delivered an emotional plea to American children to not dress up as insensitive and inaccurate representations of their culture.
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You know, you can't dress up as anything anymore, especially not the really scary/evil stuff.
You can't dress up as a ghost, because everyone thinks you're a Klansman and they get all triggered.
You definitely can't dress up as a Klansman.
You can't dress up as a Nazi because OMG TRUMP/HITLER/HOLOCAUSE!
You can't dress up in black face, white face, brown face, yellow face, even if you are black, white, brown, or yellow.
You can't dress up in an Indian costume because the Washington Redskins get all triggered.
You can't dress up as a mime because mute people get all pissed.
You can't dress up as a professional like a police officer because BLM!
I'm going to go as exactly what I am, a fat, angry, Conservative, middle aged white man and piss EVERYONE off.
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Given this Halloween is the 500th anniversary of Luther's famous/infamous theses, I was planning to dress as the Wittenberg reformer on Tuesday. Unfortunately, all I could find were Sexy Martin Luther costumes...
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Tie just shy of 100 turds to a cloak.
You'd be the 95 feces...
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I protest that.
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Y'know, I don't much pay any attention to the idiots who whine and piss and moan and are all offended by, well, everything. What bothers me though, is why the people who innocently are trying to have a little fun, to joke around, or in the case of Halloween, put on a costume, seem to find it necessary to apologize when one or more of those aholes begin to whine and piss and moan. I'm with the GFY meme. I wish more would do that.
The owner of the Houston football team found it necessary to apologize for commenting that the inmates don't run the prison. If I were him, I'd have told the player to GFY and you don't play for me next year unless you get your *expletive deleted*it together. I don't care what you do off the job, but when you are working for me, you'll do what I say. If you don't like that, the door swings out.
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Any racial issues aside, I think I'd be a little put off to find that my employer thinks of me as a convict in his prison.
I'm sorry. I know it's fashionable to be offended any time someone takes offense, but I can't ignore the fact that some offense-taking is not entirely without merit.
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Any racial issues aside, I think I'd be a little put off to find that my employer thinks of me as a convict in his prison.
I'm sorry. I know it's fashionable to be offended any time someone takes offense, but I can't ignore the fact that some offense-taking is not entirely without merit.
Might depend on just how many are actual convicted felons.
Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
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Might depend on just how many are actual convicted felons.
Point taken.
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it's the pinnacle of conceit to believe that your being 'offended' should stop the world.
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I like that Dark Soul costume. It's very creepy. I am not offended.
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I like that Dark Soul costume. It's very creepy. I am not offended.
That's because you're a rational person. I'd be willing to bet that those who started this kerfuffle were the usual white SJW suspects who insist on speaking for others and who tell everyone how to think. While some black people may have gotten on board with it after, I would bet they were the usual "Al Sharpton" followers who go out of their way looking for offense.
If everyone would just mind their own business, this would be a much better world.
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it's the pinnacle of conceit to believe that your being 'offended' should stop the world.
BUT... BUTBUTBUTBUTBUT...
I'M OFFENDED! YOU MUST PANDER TO ME! IT'S MY RIGHT TO INCONVENIENCE HUNDREDS, OR BETTER YET, THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE BECAUSE OF MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
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I protest that.
#MeToo What caliber for cloaca-costumed revelers?
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Y'know, I don't much pay any attention to the idiots who whine and piss and moan and are all offended by, well, everything. What bothers me though, is why the people who innocently are trying to have a little fun, to joke around, or in the case of Halloween, put on a costume, seem to find it necessary to apologize when one or more of those aholes begin to whine and piss and moan. I'm with the GFY meme. I wish more would do that.
The owner of the Houston football team found it necessary to apologize for commenting that the inmates don't run the prison. If I were him, I'd have told the player to GFY and you don't play for me next year unless you get your *expletive deleted*it together. I don't care what you do off the job, but when you are working for me, you'll do what I say. If you don't like that, the door swings out.
Piss poor management of the players. That's an awful thing to say to your employees, especially when there are ways to mitigate or manage them deciding to do *expletive deleted*it that makes your franchise look bad. The insinuation that they're inmates means that you either think you own them, or that they're nothing but a bunch of criminals.
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Piss poor management of the players. That's an awful thing to say to your employees, especially when there are ways to mitigate or manage them deciding to do *expletive deleted*it that makes your franchise look bad. The insinuation that they're inmates means that you either think you own them, or that they're nothing but a bunch of criminals.
Not knowing everything behind this particular incident, I'm going to disagree regarding the outrage. I think this is clearly one of those problems we have been running into way too much of late that is generational. "Inmates running the asylum" has no "criminal" connotations to pretty much anyone I know of my generation. I've always known it to mean that the least capable people are running things. Much in the same way as "majority/mob rule".
He may be calling them dummies, but he's not calling them criminals. Not to cause offense, but if people are associating this phrase with black people, then immediately associating "inmates running the asylum" with black people = criminals, then maybe the owner who used the phrase is not the racist.
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"The insinuation that they're inmates means that you either think you own them, or that they're nothing but a bunch of criminals."
More and more, NFL players are a bunch of criminals.
And, being under contract is a form of "ownership" of services and expectations of services rendered.
Of course, cue the screeching about slavery....
If getting a base salary of nearly $470,000 for year one out of the draft is considered slavery, someone(s) needs to read up on what actual slavery is.
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Not knowing everything behind this particular incident, I'm going to disagree regarding the outrage. I think this is clearly one of those problems we have been running into way too much of late that is generational. "Inmates running the asylum" has no "criminal" connotations to pretty much anyone I know of my generation. I've always known it to mean that the least capable people are running things. Much in the same way as "majority/mob rule".
He may be calling them dummies, but he's not calling them criminals. Not to cause offense, but if people are associating this phrase with black people, then immediately associating "inmates running the asylum" with black people = criminals, then maybe the owner who used the phrase is not the racist.
He didn't say "asylum." He said "prison."
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He didn't say "asylum." He said "prison."
Okay. Did he pull a Trump, misquote, and later correct that he meant "asylum", or did he stick with prison?
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So for Halloween, my daughters are going as:
Aurora (Sleeping Beauty): Obviously as a result of her white privilege. Racist
Betsy Ross (No seriously, she chose it): I don't think I need to spell this one out. HORRIBLY racist
Bumblebee (for the baby): Someone's going to have to help me on this one, I'm not woke enough to find the offense, but I'm sure someone can.
My son:
Knight: Personally, I'm extremely disappointed. Not in the boy. I'm disappointed he couldn't find a "Crusader" costume. THAT would have been extra-offensive. As it is, he's just going out as a knight and carrying his dragon. OH! I just realized the dragon is black. THERE we go.
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"The insinuation that they're inmates means that you either think you own them, or that they're nothing but a bunch of criminals."
More and more, NFL players are a bunch of criminals.
And, being under contract is a form of "ownership" of services and expectations of services rendered.
Of course, cue the screeching about slavery....
If getting a base salary of nearly $470,000 for year one out of the draft is considered slavery, someone(s) needs to read up on what actual slavery is.
What's funny is the Texans try and do their best to keep the riff raff out of their franchise. They generally won't draft anyone with criminal issues.
Mostly I just saw it as a shitty way of talking to your employees. Employees who earn your franchise a *expletive deleted*it ton of money. I can understand why their pissed.
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Mostly I just saw it as a s***ty way of talking to your employees.
This.
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"I can understand why their pissed."
Personally, I think they're taking a knee to protest your grammar...
:rofl:
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Piss poor management of the players. That's an awful thing to say to your employees, especially when there are ways to mitigate or manage them deciding to do *expletive deleted*it that makes your franchise look bad. The insinuation that they're inmates means that you either think you own them, or that they're nothing but a bunch of criminals.
The phrase he used is something called a "figure of speech". There are many sayings as such that have been used...some for generations. If one has half a brain...oh wait, they're football players who have been coddled and catered to since about age 12. If a player is insulted by a comment/adage/figure of speech like that, especially when you are an employee who has engaged and is engaging in behavior that endangers the bottom line of a business, embarrassing your boss, you are not only a moron for publicly taking umbrage, especially at your pay grade, you should be an ex employee.
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If one has half a brain...oh wait, they're football players who have been coddled and catered to since about age 12.
Well, that and the CTE ...
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Remy just released a video about "racist" Halloween costumes, and knocked it out of the park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynO-bqU6tUk
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Remy just released a video about "racist" Halloween costumes, and knocked it out of the park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynO-bqU6tUk
Very clever.
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Remy just released a video about "racist" Halloween costumes, and knocked it out of the park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynO-bqU6tUk
Funny stuff.
Wait: did I just watch a white man impersonating a black man?? TRIGGERED!
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No. You saw a white man impersonating a black man impersonating a white man.
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No. You saw a white man impersonating a black man impersonating a white man.
So . . . is that okay, or not? I'm confused.
(so was MJ, most likely)
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Remy just released a video about "racist" Halloween costumes, and knocked it out of the park:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynO-bqU6tUk
Gotta love Remy. This might be better than his "People will die!" video.
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Gotta love Remy. This might be better than his "People will die!" video.
Tough call.
Some perspective on racism, and responses thereto.
https://ricochet.com/466059/darvishs-excellent-response-to-racism/