Post by: crt360 on January 18, 2007, 11:04:05 AM
Perry's talk of unity hits a sour note, some say
By LISA SANDBERG
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle Austin Bureau
AUSTIN At his inauguration, after being sworn into office by the first black chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court a man he appointed Gov. Rick Perry spoke wistfully of a tolerant Texas, where "no one is invalidated because of their heritage, but valued because of their humanity."
If you ask critics, the spirit of unity didn't last through the governor's $75-a-ticket inaugural ball, held later Tuesday night at the Austin Convention Center.
Rocking the house as the night's final act was singer Ted Nugent, a friend of Perry's known as the "Motor City Madman." Nugent appeared onstage wearing a cut-off T-shirt emblazoned with the sure-to-draw-headlines Confederate flag and shouting some unflattering remarks about non-English speakers, according to people who were in attendance. His props were machine guns.
Spokesman defends event
Perry's spokesman, Robert Black, downplayed the incident.
"Ted Nugent is a good friend of the governor's. He asked him if he would play at the inaugural. He didn't put any stipulation of what he would play," Black said. He added that "Most people had a really good time and enjoyed the show."
However, some within Perry's party said the appearance was unbefitting a governor who may have national ambitions. "I think it was a horrible choice," GOP strategist Royal Masset said. "I hope nobody approved it."
The black-tie ball was just hours after an inauguration notable for its conciliatory tone. Perry was sworn into office by Wallace Jefferson, who descended from slaves to become the chief justice of the Texas Supreme Court.
In his speech, Perry extolled the virtues of bipartisanship, compassion for the poor and racial and class unity. The rhetoric was so moderate for a Republican governor from Texas that some news stories speculated Perry must have vice-presidential ambitions.
News of Nugent's appearance drew barbs from Democrats and civil-rights leaders.
"Whenever someone sports the Confederate battle flag, many Texans will be offended, and rightly so, because of what it symbolizes the enslavement of African-Americans and more recently the symbol of hate groups and terrorists," Gary Bledsoe, president of the Texas chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, wrote in an e-mail. "The politics of the Confederacy and the Old South are out of step with mainstream America."
State Rep. Joaquin Castro, D-San Antonio, said the choice of entertainers reflected poorly on the Republican Party, and Perry in particular.
"This is clearly not the behavior of someone who's ready for the national stage. It's a sign of the times for the Republican Party. It's a divisive party. Perry knows his views and to feature him front and center, that alone says a lot."
Shocking people is nothing new for Nugent, and he's done it before in Texas. In 2, he was banned from performing in The Woodlands after he let loose an expletive-filled tirade about illegal immigrants.
A hunting and gun-rights advocate, Nugent could not comment on his appearance at the inaugural; he was hunting, a spokeswoman said.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/4478848.html
After seeing Perry's "we all gotta get along" speech, I thought this was pretty damn funny - not very smart, but funny.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 18, 2007, 11:07:58 AM
Quote
"Whenever someone sports the Confederate battle flag, many Texans will be offended, and rightly so, because of what it symbolizes the enslavement of African-Americans and more recently the symbol of hate groups and terrorists," Gary Bledsoe, president of the Texas chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, wrote in an e-mail.
Which terrorists are "sporting" that flag?
Post by: El Tejon on January 18, 2007, 11:12:32 AM
Post by: HankB on January 18, 2007, 11:43:48 AM
Quote
. . . the appearance was unbefitting a governor who may have national ambitions.
Perry was re-elected with just over 1/3 of the total ballots cast - not a good showing for someone with "national ambitions." (He's unpopular with the Left for obvious reasons, but many people dislike him for his support of toll roads even when the state has a budget surplus, as well as support for giving in-state tuition breaks at U of Texas for illegal aliens . . . not to mention his inability to get a good, sound method of financing schools statewide.)
Post by: mustanger98 on January 18, 2007, 11:58:24 AM
Now that the KKK has been brought into this discussion, here's a photo from a Klan rally...
Do ya'll see a Confederate flag anywhere in this photo? I don't. I do however see a US Star&Stripes over to the right side. If you want to discuss flags and other symbols used by racists and bigots...
Some of my people fought for the Confederacy and I'm offended by the ignorance shown by the NAACP, the KKK, some GOP members, and some members of this board.
Post by: Bogie on January 18, 2007, 12:07:13 PM
The confederate flag is a symbol, to over 90% of the population, of hatred and bigotry. Sure, you can say that it's about independence... If you're all het up over that, fly the snake.
Bogies hateses the kluckers...
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 18, 2007, 12:14:30 PM
Which terrorists are "sporting" that flag?
Oh, he said "more recently." I was thinking currently. I don't know if the Klan do much terrorism these days. Do they?
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 18, 2007, 12:18:25 PM
http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/index.php?topic=5650.0
Post by: Art Eatman on January 18, 2007, 12:51:06 PM
Nowadays? Other than a few kooks and loonies, they can't attract flies, much less a crowd. Well, okay, some jeerers.
Some years back, a bunch of Kluckers tried to have a protest gathering at the captiol in Austin. Molly Ivins drove by the gathering, with Steve Fromholz as her passenger. Steve mooned the group. Sans names, the mooning was duly reported in the Austin paper.
Later, somebody asked one of the Sixth Street cops about it; did they know who did it? "Naw, nobody really knows. And, we couldn't make an arrest, anyway, because nobody knows how to spell Fromholz."
The media has done a good job, these last four decades, of changing the Confederate flag away from being a symbol of protest against an all-powerful state into something else. They're good at that. Kim du Toit has some pretty good commentary about the media in today's rant...
Art
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 18, 2007, 01:12:51 PM
Quote
The media has done a good job, these last four decades, of changing the Confederate flag away from being a symbol of protest against an all-powerful state into something else. They're good at that. Kim du Toit has some pretty good commentary about the media in today's rant...
Well said, Art. Well said.
Brad
Post by: Iain on January 18, 2007, 02:06:01 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 18, 2007, 03:14:11 PM
Post by: CAnnoneer on January 18, 2007, 03:21:22 PM
Post by: wmenorr67 on January 18, 2007, 06:30:25 PM
Post by: Dannyboy on January 18, 2007, 06:41:44 PM
The biggest thing is that most people have been taught and believe the main reason for the Civil War was about slavery. But slavery was just a small portion of the reasons for the Civil War.
El Tejon makes a damn good case arguing otherwise.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on January 18, 2007, 08:09:55 PM
Post by: CAnnoneer on January 18, 2007, 08:46:02 PM
Is it possible to mention the Confederate Battle flag without igniting the Civil War all over again?
Brilliant idea! Now that the slaves are free, the yankees and liberals must surrender! Or they will have to admit something else was there as well... Huuuurray Dixie, yeehaaw!
Post by: Strings on January 18, 2007, 10:37:08 PM
Post by: Bogie on January 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: El Tejon on January 19, 2007, 02:46:02 AM
wmenorr67, that's because to the South the Civil War was about slavery. Go to the Southern museums they have the petitions proudly displayed on their walls. In Texas the outstanding state museum in Austin proudly displays why Texas fought the war--to keep their slaves. Look at the Southern Constitution, it's all about slavery. Look who left the Union first--the largest slaveholders. Look where most pro-Union Southern troops were formed--the bumpy (hilly, hard to use slaves in the hills), non-Slave holding parts of TN, NC, VA, AL, etc.
Art, but the "symbol against an all powerful government", the CSA battle and naval flags (incorporated into state flags), was used as a middle finger against the implementation of civil rights for Blacks, not to protest the Great Society welfare giveaways. Heck, the South benefitted immensely from federal freebies from FDR on.
If Ted "Guardianship" Nugent wants to put on the stars and bars and say silly things, then by all means he has that right. However, it is also one's right to point out how foolishly he is making his point.
Post by: Art Eatman on January 19, 2007, 06:47:46 AM
Er, uh, yeah, but there's that little period from Sherman's war-crimes march to the sea until 1933. Right at 70 years of not much benefit and a helluva lot of carpet-bagging. And the "Reconstruction" period was a raving bitch.
I'm not saying that Nugent was wise in his choice of display; Media Perception Is All in this Wussie New World in which we live. What I'm saying is that the flag isn't seen as pro-slavery by the vast majority of those who do display it or respect it.
Art
Post by: Glock Glockler on January 19, 2007, 07:07:18 AM
Why did the South leave the Union to protect slavery if slavery was perfectly legal in the Union (it was)?
If the war was about slavery all along then why did people in the north riot when Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation?
I also find it amazing that such a small minority of the poulation who were slave owners could convince everyone else to throw themselves at bayonets so that they could sit on their porches on their Gone with the Wind plantations and drink lemonade. I need to get me some of that propaganda, I'll convince all the socialists in the USA to move to Haiti to start a worker's paradise, they'll get no opposition from me in the slightest and they'll have carte blanche to turn it into an economic powerhouse. I'll then visit in 20 years to see how they're doing:)
As far as the 'recent unpleasantness' goes, there were many different reasons for the war and many different groups that had their own agendas, war is seldom as simple as slavery v. non-slavery.
THAT being said, Nugent is an idiot who is only out for his own glorification even if it comes at the expense of whatever cause he claims to support, heck, those antics were probably the only way that he would have gotten his name in the paper. Everyone with 1/10th of a brain knows that if you're not a Democrat and you have a "Confederate" flag showing that you make youself a target for bashing. Nugent belongs in a trailer park, hopefully people will realize that and stop inviting him to political functions.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 19, 2007, 07:16:48 AM
Quote
Why did the South leave the Union to protect slavery if slavery was perfectly legal in the Union (it was)?
I'm not saying this is the whole reason for the war, but many in the South were convinced of a Yankee conspiracy to subjugate the South to extremist Yankee notions, abolishing slavery being one of those. This was only confirmed by the ascendancy of an explicitly anti-slavery party. That is, the election of Republican Abraham Lincoln. Quote
As far as the 'recent unpleasantness' goes, there were many different reasons for the war and many different groups that had their own agendas, war is seldom as simple as slavery v. non-slavery.
Well said.
Post by: MechAg94 on January 19, 2007, 10:00:58 AM
Post by: richyoung on January 19, 2007, 10:07:07 AM
It's a PR thing. And a matter of public perception. I cringe every time I see a confederate flag next to an NRA sticker, because the perception of the _vast_ majority (who votes too...) is that the confederate flag is a symbol of racism, much like the swastika is a symbol of genocide, and that if it is associated with the NRA, then those gun nuts must really be racist, and something really oughta be done about them...
Who cares about the ignorant? The NRA 2was started by Yankee vets, who were appalled at the general level of marksmanship displayed by the Northern recruits, vis-a-vis the Rebs...
Post by: mustanger98 on January 19, 2007, 10:30:48 AM
Quote
Why did the South leave the Union to protect slavery if slavery was perfectly legal in the Union (it was)?
I'm not saying this is the whole reason for the war, but many in the South were convinced of a Yankee conspiracy to subjugate the South to extremist Yankee notions, abolishing slavery being one of those. This was only confirmed by the ascendancy of an explicitly anti-slavery party. That is, the election of Republican Abraham Lincoln.If you read the Lincoln-Douglas debates when they were running for the office of POTUS, Abraham Lincoln said regarding slavery that he had no inclination to abolish it. He didn't "free the slaves in the states currently in rebellion" with the Emancipation Proclamation until 1863. Slaves in northern states weren't freed until the end of the so-called Reconstruction.
Post by: Balog on January 19, 2007, 10:47:04 AM
"I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing
about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black
races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or
jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry
with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical
difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever
forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality.
And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there
must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other
man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race.
I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is
to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything."
Abraham Lincoln
Source: September 18, 1858 - Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas
at Charleston, Illinois
Post by: HankB on January 19, 2007, 10:50:26 AM
Now that the KKK has been brought into this discussion, here's a photo from a Klan rally...
Hey, I was just wondering . . . is Robert Byrd in that picture anywhere?
[thread hijack]I often thought that picturing a Klan rally with a voice over saying "Is this Robert Byrd? Or is this him? Or is Robert Byrd over here?" as a superimposed arrow pointed in succession to different Klansmen would have been a great campaign commercial for one of his opponents, especially if it ended with "Call Robert Byrd's office in Washington at 202-xxx-xxxx and ask him if he made it into this picture, so that he can get full and proper credit for his participation."[/thread hijack]
Post by: Bogie on January 19, 2007, 10:53:54 AM
I don't care about history. I don't care about 150 years ago, and who was doing what to whom (or vice versa...).
What matters is NOW. And tomorrow.
The plain and simple truth is that the rebel flag is viewed by the vast majority of the population as being the flag of the racist bigots. Sure, you can say over and over again that that isn't the case, but guess what? What you say about it doesn't matter. The stars and bars = backwoods southern racists in the minds of probably over 75% of the population. And that is NOT going to change.
One should pick one's fights wisely, and being a flaggot is pretty much guaranteed to ensure that any OTHER message you convey is also viewed in the same light - associated with racism and bigotry.
When you have your flaggot sticker next to your NRA sticker, you are polluting my NRA.
Post by: Glock Glockler on January 19, 2007, 11:07:03 AM
I agree, that's why I wrote this, but it's fun to debate the other issue as well
"THAT being said, Nugent is an idiot who is only out for his own glorification even if it comes at the expense of whatever cause he claims to support, heck, those antics were probably the only way that he would have gotten his name in the paper. Everyone with 1/10th of a brain knows that if you're not a Democrat and you have a "Confederate" flag showing that you make youself a target for bashing. Nugent belongs in a trailer park, hopefully people will realize that and stop inviting him to political functions"
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 19, 2007, 11:27:41 AM
The facts of history are ... the facts of history. The current twists and turns (including the venom-laden twattle about the Confederate Flag) are a product of hyper-sensitive groups of self-aggrandizing "oh-poor-me" types with nothing better to do than blame everyone else for their problems. Their main contribution to society is to make sure the rest of us spend our days walking on eggshells lest we bruise their delicate sensibilities.
Quite honestly, I'm tired of the whole damn thing. Tired of having it shoved in my face 24/7. Tired of being browbeaten with how bad someone has it when they created the situation for themselves. Tired of seeing people of any color, creed, or origin who've worked their entire lives towards a jobs or college placement goal only to lose it to people who's only qualification is their color, creed, or national origin. Tired of hearing people who've never been personally wronged (but have personally benefitted from the situation) constantly point fingers and pitch a fit that people like me are the problem when all I want is to be blissfully colorblind, raceblind, and originblind. But we can't because the people who want us to be won't let the !@&$%! issue go!!!.
Brad
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 19, 2007, 11:50:11 AM
Quote
Why did the South leave the Union to protect slavery if slavery was perfectly legal in the Union (it was)?
I'm not saying this is the whole reason for the war, but many in the South were convinced of a Yankee conspiracy to subjugate the South to extremist Yankee notions, abolishing slavery being one of those. This was only confirmed by the ascendancy of an explicitly anti-slavery party. That is, the election of Republican Abraham Lincoln.If you read the Lincoln-Douglas debates when they were running for the office of POTUS, Abraham Lincoln said regarding slavery that he had no inclination to abolish it. He didn't "free the slaves in the states currently in rebellion" with the Emancipation Proclamation until 1863. Slaves in northern states weren't freed until the end of the so-called Reconstruction.
What is your point?
Post by: mustanger98 on January 19, 2007, 11:57:52 AM
Post by: Art Eatman on January 19, 2007, 04:26:21 PM
Hey, he was a politician, wasn't he? That's what they DO for a living, flip their floppies.
It worked for Clinton, right?
Art
Post by: CAnnoneer on January 19, 2007, 04:38:15 PM
Quote from: Brad Johnson
But we can't because the people who want us to be won't let the !@&$%! issue go!!!.
Of course not. Else, their race would no longer be an asset an they will have to be weaned off the subsidy tit. And a bountiful, ever-lactating tit it is.
Just look at all the hoopla Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton generated around the Duke "rape". The American Arafats...
Post by: roo_ster on January 19, 2007, 06:00:05 PM
That said, I don't care if folks wave the various flags used by the losers. A lot more non-slave-owners fought & died under them than slave owners.
I also don't give a dead rat's hind end for the mewlings of the hyper-sensitive.
Post by: wmenorr67 on January 19, 2007, 06:08:41 PM
Quite honestly, I'm tired of the whole damn thing. Tired of having it shoved in my face 24/7. Tired of being browbeaten with how bad someone has it when they created the situation for themselves. Tired of seeing people of any color, creed, or origin who've worked their entire lives towards a jobs or college placement goal only to lose it to people who's only qualification is their color, creed, or national origin. Tired of hearing people who've never been personally wronged (but have personally benefitted from the situation) constantly point fingers and pitch a fit that people like me are the problem when all I want is to be blissfully colorblind, raceblind, and originblind. But we can't because the people who want us to be won't let the !@&$%! issue go!!!.
Brad
Well said Mr. Johnson. Well said.
Post by: Sindawe on January 19, 2007, 06:22:41 PM
My feelings that flag, as I posted elsewhere on the 'Net.
Quote
It IS a part of OUR history as Americans, and while long vilified the root goals and cause of the Confederacy seeking to succeed from the Union was in line with the ideals of the founding of the this Nation. Slavery was NOT what motivated our Southern brothers, but economic freedom and self determination of the agrarian Southern States, free from oppression and exploitation by the industiral Northern States. Though identified as the banner of a defeated cause, in my view it has as much legitimacy as an American icon as the banner of an earlier struggle for the soul of this nation, the Gadsden Flag.
I 2nd jfruser's views on the hyper-sensitive.
Post by: Art Eatman on January 20, 2007, 03:31:05 AM
There were still a few vets there. One who could still get around and was compos mentis had been a young drummer boy with a Confederate unit. About all I remember of a few comments was that he'd mostly been afraid but determined. Some things never change...
My great-grandfather Witherspoon was with Hood's brigade, IIRC. Apparently he stuck his head up at the wrong time and had a Minie ball put a dent in. A silver plate was used in the repair work, according to my grandmother. She recalled that he was okay but for the occasional late-night "flashback". He'd get up in the middle of the night and go search around the house for Yankee intruders. Again, some things never change...
The Witherspoon clan moved by wagon train from Waxahachie to Playa in the Texas panhandle around 1890, taking some four months to do so. He ranched there. One day his horse fell back on him and crushed his chest. The horse got back home and my ggm spent two days searching for him. He died not long after from pneumonia.
The Witherspoon "boys" worked as cowhands on the 3-million-acre XIT ranch.
Art
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 20, 2007, 03:48:15 AM
What is your point?
That Lincoln did not set out to be the great emancipator he's been portrayed as,
Then perhaps you misunderstood what I was getting at. I was not saying that Lincoln was a determined abolitionist, nor that there was actually a Yankee conspiracy to subject the South to the rule of barbarous Negros
. I was only saying that such ideas were common in the South at that time.
Post by: Hugh Damright on January 20, 2007, 05:19:05 AM
Post by: Stand_watie on January 20, 2007, 09:48:06 AM
Yessir. That thur's one prickly yankee.
I don't mean to be argumentative, but El Tejon's from Indiana - and as such (geographically speaking anyway) he's not quite a yankee.
Damn near as many hoosiers were "good ol' rebs" or "dirty traitors" (depending upon your viewpoint) as "yankees".
Ted Nugent, though, is a yankee. Outside of New England you don't get much more yankee than detroit area Mitcheegander.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 20, 2007, 08:44:21 PM
Post by: Hugh Damright on January 20, 2007, 09:03:36 PM
Post by: Stand_watie on January 20, 2007, 09:12:36 PM
Oh brother. He's from north of the Mason Dixon Line and insults the antebellum South every chance he gets. That's not Yankee? I'm gonna go to sleep now.
The antebellum south? Ha! Listen to what he says about his neighbors.
Maybe it's just a lawyer thing, but sometimes I wonder if he wouldn't be happier in Connecticut or the windy city burbs.
Prolly not. Just funnin ya el T
P.S. I'm a hoosier with a New England yankee dad and a tennessee hillbilly ma, and had ancestors die on both sides. I think I'm pretty
Quote
Bill O'Reilly
"fair and balanced".
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 21, 2007, 02:24:13 AM
The antebellum south? Ha! Listen to what he says about his neighbors.
How could I forget? I'm gonna go move my pick-up into the yard, but first, my Pappy is from North Missouri (it's like Iowa South) and my Momma is from Swampeast (Southeast) Missouri/Arkansas/Mississippi.
Post by: Stand_watie on January 21, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
The antebellum south? Ha! Listen to what he says about his neighbors.
How could I forget? I'm gonna go move my pick-up into the yard, but first, my Pappy is from North Missouri (it's like Iowa South) and my Momma is from Swampeast (Southeast) Missouri/Arkansas/Mississippi.
Missouri, yeah. That's the other of the two states (heavily involved) that can't rightly be called either yankee or southron, IMHO.
Asuming you're a product of geography, whether you're one or the other in those two states is dependant upon prevailing attitudes at the neighborhood level sized geographical ideology.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 22, 2007, 02:57:24 AM
Post by: roo_ster on January 22, 2007, 05:40:00 AM
South
Anybody N of the Mason-Dixon is a Yankee. If they are obnoxious, they are a damn yankee.
North
Folks "back east" (read: northeast) are Yankees
Northeast Quadrant of USA
Folks up in NY & ways north are yankees
NY on up to Maine
Only residents of NY are Yankees
Post by: gunsmith on January 22, 2007, 06:32:17 AM
MSM has already forgotten about the Nuge sporting the shirt.
Rockers like to shock people, it's what they do.
I really like Uncle Ted but I wish he had not been sporting the shirt.
I am willing to bet though that he is not a racist at all.
When I was a left wing anarchist in the hotbed of NY
socialism, I noticed that the working class kids with
Lynyrd Skynyrd Confederate Flag shirts had more black friends
then the white rad/lib kids protesting them.
Seemed ironic that the ones who professed the most hate
for the Confederate Flag didn't have any black friends.
Post by: richyoung on January 22, 2007, 10:17:21 AM
Guys, you're NOT GETTING IT.
I don't care about history. I don't care about 150 years ago, and who was doing what to whom (or vice versa...).
I don't care about history. I don't care about 150 years ago, and who was doing what to whom (or vice versa...).
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Quote
What matters is NOW. And tomorrow.
Ah, yes. "The Power of Now".
Quote
The plain and simple truth is that the rebel flag is viewed by the vast majority of the population as being the flag of the racist bigots.
Not that it should matter, even it it were true, but what's your source on this? What is the exact percentage, and how does that vary by region. More importantly, why is it ok for people to display the portraits of Che Guevera, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, the flags of the IRA and the SAC, various other commie flags....but NOT this one? BTW, Ted is from that bastion of redneck segregationism known as... Detroit.
Quote
Sure, you can say over and over again that that isn't the case, but guess what? What you say about it doesn't matter. The stars and bars = backwoods southern racists in the minds of probably over 75% of the population. And that is NOT going to change.
"Probably"
So you are just guessing? Or projecting YOUR feelings on everyone?Quote
One should pick one's fights wisely, and being a flaggot is pretty much guaranteed to ensure that any OTHER message you convey is also viewed in the same light - associated with racism and bigotry.
Like the Rolling Stones said, any publicity is good publicity. Sometimes you have to shock to get their attention. Not to mention the fact that Texas * WAS * a Confederate state - this for you, the person that "...don't care about history".
Quote
When you have your flaggot sticker next to your NRA sticker, you are polluting my NRA.
Funny - my issue of "American Rifleman" had nothing in it about you BUYING THE WHOLE THING OUT.
Or to put it another way, the NRA is just as much mine as you'rn, and * I * think:
1. the Confederate Battle Flag is only appropriate to be displayed next to the emblem af an organization, however noble, that was in fact started by a bunch of dang yankees so they could be more effidient at killing Southern boys next time.
&
2. We (gun owners) aren't ever going to get anywhere if we pussy-foot around afraid to "offend" the delicate sensibilities of those who already hate us, and feel perfectly free to offend us. Poop on them. Say what you want, fly what you want, and act like a free man with a pair of stones.
Post by: Hugh Damright on January 22, 2007, 10:43:54 AM