Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Hawkmoon on April 14, 2018, 04:17:48 PM
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The daughter of a friend is enlisting in the Army. More accurately, she has enlisted, and will report for Basic Combat Training in July. Trying to get her a bit of a leg up on what to expect, but my BCT was 52 years ago, and I'm certain it's not the same now as it was then.
What weapon do they train with in BCT these days, M16 or M4? A2 open (peep) sights, or optics? If they use optics in BCT, what do they use, ACOG?
Thanks.
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If you had asked a week ago I could help. Good friends grandson just shipped out for his first tour of the desert.
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It's been 20 years since I went to Basic, but there's a couple of Drill Sergeants that work with me. I'll ask them on Teus.
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You want to talk to Fitz. He got out not too long ago and was a drill sergeant
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Basic in July? Ooof. That's gonna leave a mark. I hope she can handle the heat, because she will be fully immersed in it.
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The Marines now use the ACOG for basic, so I'd not be surprised if the Army does too.
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At Fort Benning in 2005, we had the M16A4. The carry handle stayed on during basic rifle marksmanship, then we got the M68 for advanced rifle marksmanship.
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Basic in July? Ooof. That's gonna leave a mark. I hope she can handle the heat, because she will be fully immersed in it.
Ft Leonard Wood, MO - June-August 1983, we never bloused our boots and mostly wore just the brown t-shirt.
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Ft Leonard Wood, MO - June-August 1983, we never bloused our boots and mostly wore just the brown t-shirt.
Now the Earth is like 30 degrees warmer on average!
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Now the Earth is like 30 degrees warmer on average!
Making US Army Basic Training posts sun-scorched, desolate, wastelands of Death, or pretty much Fts. Irwin, Hood and Huachuca. ....
;/ ;/ ;/
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At Fort Benning in 2005, we had the M16A4. The carry handle stayed on during basic rifle marksmanship, then we got the M68 for advanced rifle marksmanship.
Quite a change. We still had the M14 when I went through Basic and AIT.
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At Fort Benning in 2005, we had the M16A4. The carry handle stayed on during basic rifle marksmanship, then we got the M68 for advanced rifle marksmanship.
Were you in a combat unit MOS? AFAIK, Big Army doesn't teach advanced rifle marksmanship to the REMFers.
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Tell her to run. Then run some more. Outside. In the heat, the rain, etc. On concrete. And asphalt. And dirt. And do push ups. Daily. And sit ups/crunches. And the run some more.
Seriously, physical conditioning is probably the most o.k. important thing for her. And remind her that she should take it one day at a time.
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Tell her to run. Then run some more. Outside. In the heat, the rain, etc. On concrete. And asphalt. And dirt. And do push ups. Daily. And sit ups/crunches. And the run some more.
Seriously, physical conditioning is probably the most o.k. important thing for her. And remind her that she should take it one day at a time.
This. Run until you puke. Then do push-ups and situps until you puke, then go run some more.
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Ft Leonard Wood, MO - June-August 1983, we never bloused our boots and mostly wore just the brown t-shirt.
You were lucky. I did BCT and AIT at Fort Lost-in-the-Woods from November 1966 through March of 1967. I had frostbite three times, and spent the last week of AIT in the hospital with pneumonia. I went directly from the hospital to final testing, and did the physical tests while taking antibiotics.
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Were you in a combat unit MOS? AFAIK, Big Army doesn't teach advanced rifle marksmanship to the REMFers.
Combat Engineer. M14 wasn't "advanced rifle marksmanship" in 1966, it was standard issue. I didn't see an M16 until I arrived in Vietnam in 1968.
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Were you in a combat unit MOS? AFAIK, Big Army doesn't teach advanced rifle marksmanship to the REMFers.
11B. We shot the crap out of our rifles. I hated the M68 they gave me, and I couldn't hit for crap with it until I convinced my drill sergeant to let me co-witness it with the rear iron sights on the carry handle. Combined with the large rear aperture and front sight, the red dot became superfluous for day use, but prior to that I completely and utterly failed the moving targets range portion. Oddly enough that event wasn't necessary for graduation. Later, in my Army Guard unit, they gave me a M68, but I managed to get away without using it for years until we got a new First Sergeant who took me to task for not having it mounted. Before then, the fact that I could shoot expert with iron sights was enough for my leadership. Fortunately the M68 that time was actually capable of being sighted in.
One of the few things about the Army Guard that I miss was range day. Ever since my Air Guard unit got rid of their Security Forces augmentee program in 2011, I haven't touched a M4/M16. Only folks deploying get range time now.
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Tell her to run. Then run some more. Outside. In the heat, the rain, etc. On concrete. And asphalt. And dirt. And do push ups. Daily. And sit ups/crunches. And the run some more.
Seriously, physical conditioning is probably the most o.k. important thing for her. And remind her that she should take it one day at a time.
This. Unless she's on the cross-country team, she probably needs more help with that. But if you want to help her with marksmanship, I don't think the equipment-related details will matter.
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This. Unless she's on the cross-country team, she probably needs more help with that. But if you want to help her with marksmanship, I don't think the equipment-related details will matter.
It's always easier when you're already familiar with the equipment. Her father is an NRA instructor and he has at least one AR-15 with A2 sights, so we're good to go there. The biggest issue is whether or not she'll be willing to take instruction from her father. We found a couple of Appleseed shoots in the region between now and when she reports, and she's interested, so it looks like we'll all be going to an Appleseed shoot sometime in the near future. That's been on my bucket list for quite some time, so I have already asked if I can tag along.
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Tell her to run. Then run some more. Outside. In the heat, the rain, etc. On concrete. And asphalt. And dirt. And do push ups. Daily. And sit ups/crunches. And the run some more.
Seriously, physical conditioning is probably the most o.k. important thing for her. And remind her that she should take it one day at a time.
This. This this this.
As far as giving her a "leg up" on the shooting, I doubt the Army qual looks anything like it did 50 years ago. Let the Army teach her how they want her to learn to shoot. Being physically ready for boot camp (or whatever the hoohaws call it...) will give her the leg up she needs over anything else.
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As far as giving her a "leg up" on the shooting, I doubt the Army qual looks anything like it did 50 years ago. Let the Army teach her how they want her to learn to shoot.
I'm certain the Army qualification is different today than it was when I was in -- we trained and qualified with the M14, and the qualifier was on an open range with pop-up silhouette targets at ranges from 50 or 100 meters all the way out to 500 or 600 meters. I'm pretty certain they don't do that today, which is why I asked. That said, knowing how to shoot before she gets there can't hurt. She's a shy, quiet girl and I think it would be great for her if she could qualify as Expert or Sharpshooter rather than just Marksman -- which is generally where those who can''t shoot before starting Basic qualify. The Army doesn't have any "Every man is a rifleman" motto -- they want every soldier to qualify, but they don't care if they qualify any higher than Marksman, as long as they qualify.
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Some info found from The Google:
https://www.armystudyguide.com/content/Prep_For_Basic_Training/Prep_for_basic_timeline/basic-combat-training-wee-6.shtml
https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/army-weapons-qualification-course.html
I don't know how accurate the info is.
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Of course there is a "... For Dummies" book, too.
https://www.amazon.com/Basic-Training-Dummies-Rod-Powers/dp/0470881232
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Some info found from The Google:
https://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/army-weapons-qualification-course.html
I don't know how accurate the info is.
That one at least is wrong. We've added a kneeling position to the rifle qual. Pretty sure you have to qual in battle rattle too, but they might have made it easier for the little snowflakes. My DS co-worker works tomorrow, I'll ask him.
All the folks saying run till you puke are on the correct track. That prep is less fun but more important. A lot of folks have never exercised all the way to muscle failure are literally run till they puked. You get to do both in BCT, and it's better if that's not your first time. Additionally the more physically fit you are the less stressed you will be. Army APFT scores are available online, she should shoot for being able to pass before reporting. Being able to do 75% in each event will make life that much easier.
They just added some sort of big culminating event called Victory Forge which is supposed to be all stressful and stuff, but it's so new no one really knows what's involved yet.
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I'm certain the Army qualification is different today than it was when I was in -- we trained and qualified with the M14, and the qualifier was on an open range with pop-up silhouette targets at ranges from 50 or 100 meters all the way out to 500 or 600 meters. I'm pretty certain they don't do that today, which is why I asked. That said, knowing how to shoot before she gets there can't hurt. She's a shy, quiet girl and I think it would be great for her if she could qualify as Expert or Sharpshooter rather than just Marksman -- which is generally where those who can''t shoot before starting Basic qualify. The Army doesn't have any "Every man is a rifleman" motto -- they want every soldier to qualify, but they don't care if they qualify any higher than Marksman, as long as they qualify.
Other than not being scared of a gun, I disagree. Almost everyone that "knew how to shoot" in my boot camp platoon ranked way lower than those who either were complete noobs or grew up with a gun in their hand on the farm. Our top shooters in my platoon were from the city.
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What dogmush said:
The PT aspect is far more important then BRM. She'll be taught the Army way to shoot. And get plenty of trigger-time to do so. Better to focus on the PT aspect and NOT breaking bad shooting habits she picked up prior to BCT.
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My dad grew up a hunter in a farm community. When he was in in the '60's he said only one guy beat him in rifle and the guy had never touched a weapon before.
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The thing with going in being fit and running daily is that she can avoid a lot of problems that plague other recruits...blisters, shin splints, cramping, etc. And, as was said above, being fit will reduce her stress. DIs will abuse those who can't keep up physically. Being able to will keep her out of their sights. The rifle/shooting thing? I had Rifle Merit Badge from Scouts. I knew basic marksmanship well. What I didn't expect was the feeling/sound of the buffer spring against me cheek. Didn't expect that. Took some time to get used to that. A little trigger time on an AR might be a benefit there. Oh, and tell her to run some more. ;)