Post by: Gewehr98 on January 25, 2007, 04:01:30 PM
Post by: charby on January 25, 2007, 04:03:27 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 25, 2007, 04:05:39 PM
The more interesting question is how long we have depended on tech that relies on someone to sell us batteries, pump electrical juice into our house, fix our new-fangled fax machines, and so forth.
Your telegraph machine is more like a land-line phone or fax, not at all like a cell phone. The compass isn't a GPS unless you've got a map and protractor to go with it.
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 25, 2007, 04:36:07 PM
I feel the collection there is pretty close to the oldest variant of a current technology, obviously with limitations.
The telegraph repeater there is about close as one can get to our current dependancy on telephones/cellphones/blackberries, without jumping back to Pony Express riders or smoke signals from relay towers and hilltops. That particular telegraph sounder dates back to the 1870s, and I usually have it wired into a lighting detector circuit. When the summertime thunderstorms approach here in Wisconsin, it starts clicking out a tempo well in advance of the lightning show.
The compass took us that extra step when it came time to navigate across the oceans, we weren't totally dependant on watching the interaction of the waves or waiting for a cloudless night to find the North Star.
Black powder took hunting/killing/warfare etc. to the next level. The Sharps (and the Trapdoor Springfield), likewise, heralded metallic centerfire cartridge use, along with the benefit of loading a firearm rapidly from the breech - which added momentum to the concept and gave us other folks like John Moses Browning, Hiram Maxim, Mikhail Kalashnikov, and Eugene Stoner. The Sharps also survived the transition from black powder to smokeless, which in itself was an important innovation.
Ok, now it's somebody else's turn to upload a photo of something vintage and make the "connection" to our current lives.
Post by: MechAg94 on January 25, 2007, 07:04:23 PM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on January 25, 2007, 07:22:44 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 26, 2007, 03:52:50 AM
Anyway, the telegraph is to the cell phone what the trebuchet is to the assault rifle. The cell phone and rifle you can take anywhere, ready to use. The telegraph and trebuchet require extensive construction in place before you have anything useful. For a real analog to the cell-phone, try semafore, a bull-horn, walkie-talkies; all things you can take with you and are ready to go when you need to use them.
Now that I think about it, cell phones and telegraphs both require some heavy hardware (cell towers and telegraph lines) to be installed ahead of time. Maybe they're closer than I at first thought.
Post by: 280plus on January 26, 2007, 04:04:50 AM
drums...
Post by: Art Eatman on January 26, 2007, 04:48:30 AM
The compass is fairly old. Even with the compass, however, the inability to tell time in any accurate fashion inhibited navigation. At least for the Europeans; the Pacific islanders were masters at using the stars in cross-ocean travel.
Another connection is the sequence from Napoleon's need to feed his troops (via canned goods after the invention of canning) on to air conditioning (invented at Appalachicola, Florida) to imported meat (refirgerated ships).
The reason for clocks and all that gearworks was so they'd know the proper time for prayers at the monastery. (Also from "Connections")
Art
Post by: Sindawe on January 26, 2007, 06:43:59 AM
Quote
Our reliance is as old as we are, just about.
Exactly, and it dates from the days when this was the cutting edge of high technology.
Source: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1585222
Post by: 280plus on January 26, 2007, 07:04:07 AM
Post by: roo_ster on January 26, 2007, 07:53:21 AM
Burke & Diamond tease a narrative out of history and present just-so stories to buttress their POV. Like I said, entertaining. Also heavily manipulative.
GGS: "Hey, there's a new* paradigm that geography determines a civilizations' success! Who'd a thunk it?*"
Diamond argues that Eurasian civilization is not so much a product of ingenuity, but of opportunity and necessity. That is, civilization is not created out of sheer will or intelligence, but is the result of a chain of developments, each made possible by certain preconditions.
...
Hence Eurasia was able to support larger, denser populations, which made trade easier and technological progress faster than in other regions. These economic and technological advantages eventually enabled Europeans to conquer the peoples of the other continents in recent centuries.
...
Hence Eurasia was able to support larger, denser populations, which made trade easier and technological progress faster than in other regions. These economic and technological advantages eventually enabled Europeans to conquer the peoples of the other continents in recent centuries.
* The "geography shapes it all" POV has been around so long it has acquired its own jargon: environmental determinism.
Quote
Environmental determinism's origins go back to antiquity, when the Greek geographer Strabo wrote that climate influences the psychological disposition of different races. Similar ideas continued to be propounded up into the modern era.
Environmental determinism rose to prominence in the late 1800s and early 1900s when it was taken up as a central theory by the discipline of geography (and to a lesser extent, anthropology). Clark University professor Ellen Churchill Semple is credited with introducing the theory to the United States after studying with human geographer Friedrich Ratzel in Germany. The prominence of determinism was influenced by the high profile of evolutionary biology, although it tended more to resemble the now-discredited Lamarckism rather than Darwinism.
The fundamental argument of the environmental determinists was that aspects of physical geography, particularly that of climate, influenced the psychological mind-set of individuals, which in turn defined the behaviour and culture of the society that those individuals formed.
Environmental determinism rose to prominence in the late 1800s and early 1900s when it was taken up as a central theory by the discipline of geography (and to a lesser extent, anthropology). Clark University professor Ellen Churchill Semple is credited with introducing the theory to the United States after studying with human geographer Friedrich Ratzel in Germany. The prominence of determinism was influenced by the high profile of evolutionary biology, although it tended more to resemble the now-discredited Lamarckism rather than Darwinism.
The fundamental argument of the environmental determinists was that aspects of physical geography, particularly that of climate, influenced the psychological mind-set of individuals, which in turn defined the behaviour and culture of the society that those individuals formed.
Post by: K Frame on January 26, 2007, 10:07:38 AM
And it's quite the stretch to say that a compass is equivilent to GPS.
A sextant and a chronograph?
Yeah, I'd be up for that.
Post by: K Frame on January 26, 2007, 10:11:54 AM
The compass is fairly old. Even with the compass, however, the inability to tell time in any accurate fashion inhibited navigation. At least for the Europeans; the Pacific islanders were masters at using the stars in cross-ocean travel.
Not even close, Art. Europeans, in the form of Vikings and other water races, were masters of star navigation.
The Greeks were quite efficient at star navigation, as well.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 26, 2007, 10:12:05 AM
It steps beyond the technology itself to the shifts in perception and thought that made some of the new tech possible.
As I was double checking the name I saw that the episodes are now available as podcasts for download.
Post by: Art Eatman on January 26, 2007, 10:23:22 AM
Art
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 26, 2007, 11:03:55 AM
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 26, 2007, 12:00:00 PM
Quote
Burke & Diamond tease a narrative out of history and present just-so stories to buttress their POV. Like I said, entertaining. Also heavily manipulative.
I don't know who Diamond is, but I give the Oxford-educated James Burke a bit more credit than labeling his work as a "just-so" story. His efforts are just a smidgen more than the average Kevin Bacon "6 Degrees of Separation" connections, if you know what I mean.
For example, I'd wager Professor Burke would do a better job of connecting this early cordless analog number cruncher in my collection (Since I'll probably never get my own Babbage Difference Engine or Analytical Engine, let alone a replica Antikythera Mechanism, and my vintage abacus is buried in a box in the garage somewhere):
With this more recent cordless digital number cruncher:
Or even connect it as an ancestor to this boat anchor of a dual Pentium 4 Xeon IBM and the supporting devices:
Likewise, that precision time machine seen above the IBM on the kid's school desk is just one later iteration of John Harrison's H1 through H5 chronometers, including the H4 chronometer, which finally exhibited enough timekeeping accuracy to make possible usable latitude measurements by way of the aforementioned sextant. (Another thing I'd like to have a replica of - the chronometers, that is. I have a couple sextants, including an Air Force aircraft periscope version, and wish never to use the latter again...)
(Are we having fun yet?)
Post by: wingnutx on January 26, 2007, 12:31:02 PM
Post by: InfidelSerf on January 26, 2007, 03:23:01 PM
good source of knowledge
Just avoid the forum discussions, as most of the people there are canucks and eurotrash that hate the US but love conspiracy theories :p
Post by: Strings on January 26, 2007, 04:00:08 PM
Post by: natedog on January 26, 2007, 05:41:28 PM
The only thing we have going for us are our brains, free forelimbs, and dextrious hands.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 26, 2007, 06:13:18 PM
As old as people are. Humans have poor senses, little natural defenses or weapons, and are slow and weak (compared to other animals). Stripped completely naked, one could succumb to hypothermia in only 60* weather with a little bit of a wind chill (IIRC). Without something as basic as a house or clothes, most outside of the tropics would die of exposure pretty quickly.
The only thing we have going for us are our brains, free forelimbs, and dextrious hands.
The only thing we have going for us are our brains, free forelimbs, and dextrious hands.
Au contraire, you neglect my sparkling wit and impeccible fashion sense.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 26, 2007, 06:45:40 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 26, 2007, 08:50:20 PM
Maybe none of us has noticed those, thus far.
Ow
Hopefully you won't notice my tears...
Post by: Strings on January 26, 2007, 09:22:20 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 26, 2007, 09:25:26 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 27, 2007, 03:34:24 AM
Post by: K Frame on January 27, 2007, 05:16:39 AM
Lovely.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 27, 2007, 09:13:55 AM
My favorite "Connections" episode (if I remember it right) was the one that started with an irrigation pump, that allowed deeper mining, that allowed cannon barrels to be end bored which made them much stronger than the welded types prior.
Because I like cannons.
Post by: K Frame on January 27, 2007, 09:20:25 AM
But, I think my favorite was the one about coal tar.
Does anyone know if Connections is available on DVD? If not, it damned well should be.
I've got some web searching to do.
Post by: K Frame on January 27, 2007, 09:24:05 AM
Amazon has a five-DVD set for.... $134.95.
That's the best price I could find in a short search.
I think I'll just wait for it to come on the History Channel again.
Post by: Brad Johnson on January 27, 2007, 09:28:25 AM
Quote
Connections to Office Space...
Stop whining or I'll set you an appointment with the two Bobs.
Speaking of History Channel, they have some darn interesting stuff in their online store and the prices usually aren't too outrageous.
Brad
Post by: K Frame on January 27, 2007, 11:47:49 AM
That's fine...
I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 27, 2007, 07:26:01 PM
They're downloadable for free. Seriously. See here:
http://clickcaster.com/connections
Be advised, they're in MP4 format, though.
Post by: K Frame on January 28, 2007, 06:28:49 AM
Squap. I don't have any means of playing them.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 28, 2007, 10:03:05 AM
Why do some people think this technology stuff is so hard?
Seriously, what the heck is Mp4?
Post by: K Frame on January 28, 2007, 12:05:21 PM
Duh, just turn your Mp3 player up one "p".
Why do some people think this technology stuff is so hard?
Seriously, what the heck is Mp4?
Why do some people think this technology stuff is so hard?
Seriously, what the heck is Mp4?
I don't like this technology. Last time I asked an MP if he could play my 3s, he gave me a wood shampoo.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 28, 2007, 07:43:52 PM
Post by: Matthew Carberry on January 28, 2007, 09:23:02 PM
get it? wood? shampoo? sailor?
comedy gold
Post by: 280plus on January 29, 2007, 01:31:13 AM
Now THAT'S semantics!
Post by: K Frame on January 29, 2007, 04:19:19 AM
Wood shampoo? That means a drubbing with a wooden club?
Yes.
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 29, 2007, 06:44:15 AM
Post by: K Frame on January 29, 2007, 06:58:37 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on January 29, 2007, 07:00:34 AM
"Stop whining or I'll set you an appointment with the two Bobs."
That's fine...
I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!
That's fine...
I HAVE PEOPLE SKILLS!
Bwahahahahaaahhaaa <snort>
Chris
Post by: roo_ster on January 29, 2007, 07:04:53 AM
It is so gut-wrenchingly hilarious because us cube-farm-dwellers have worked with all the archetypes portrayed in the movie.
BTW, nobody touches my Swingline.
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 29, 2007, 07:15:04 AM
Post by: K Frame on January 29, 2007, 07:15:46 AM
Chris snorted!
"Office Space is an underappreciated classic of American cinema."
The scene that REALLY cemented it for me was the one where the three of them are walking in the field, carrying baseball bats, and they proceed to beat the printer to death. The angles, the song, even thing about the scene was both hysterically funny AND made me want to take revenge on the printers that have given me grief over the years.
Crap. I'm going to have to buy Office Space now.
I still say Grandma's Boy is funnier, though.
"My Grandma drank my pot!"
Post by: K Frame on January 29, 2007, 07:18:30 AM
The first episode, "Yesterday, Today, and Tomorrow" was 324 megs, no biggy for my cable modem, but for somebody on dial-up, I could see them having problems.
I got rid of the cable last year when it started failing miserably, and no one from the local butt munch festival known as Cox (yeah, that's appropriate) wanted to figure out why my connection speed would go from (literally over a period of 10 seconds) 2.5M to 110K to 1.1M to 305K to 7.5M to 55K... and it just kept doing that all the time. It was a freak show.
What I'll do is start the download and then go to dinner or something. Should take about an hour on my DSL.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 29, 2007, 07:19:48 AM
I say the best scene is Michael Bolton turning down his rap music and locking the doors when the flower salesman approaches.
Post by: BakerMikeRomeo on January 29, 2007, 08:54:02 AM
~GnSx
...
My dad works for Powerware
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 29, 2007, 10:45:53 AM
Post by: roo_ster on February 08, 2007, 04:46:29 PM
I was a little bored and decided I wanted to download some of these programs (Connections, DUC).
Being the lazy b@st@rd I am, I automated the task after some judicious grep/sed/awk. Those of you fortunate enough to be running linux or cygwin (under Windows) can download the attached tar file, untar it, chmod a+x the *tcsh files, and execute the tcsh scripts in the background(0). If you get to the net via a proxy server, man wget to see how to modify the scripts.
To see how things are going, tail -f the *log file(s).
Those of you sadly without useful command-line tools can download the Conections & Day the Universe Changed with the urls below:
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/yesterday-tomorrow-and-you.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/countdown.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/eat-drink-and-be-merry.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/the-long-chain.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/thunder-in-the-skies.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/the-wheel-of-fortune.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/faith-in-numbers.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/distant-voices.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/death-in-the-morning.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/the-trigger-effect.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/worlds-without-end-changing-knowledge-changing-reality.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/making-waves-the-new-physics-newton-revised-.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/fit-to-rule-darwins-revolution.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/what-the-doctor-ordered-social-impacts-of-new-medical-knowledge.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/credit-where-its-due-the-factory-and-marketplace-revolution.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/infinitely-reasonable-science-revises-the-heavens-.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/a-matter-of-fact-printing-transforms-knowledge.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/point-of-view-scientific-imagination-in-the-renaissance.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/in-the-light-of-the-above-medieval-conflict-faith-and-reason-.mp4
http://clickcaster.com/resource/video/the-way-we-are-it-started-with-the-greeks.mp4
(0) As always, before running a script on your box, at least give it a quick look-see in a text editor to make sure it isn't something harmful. These are one-liners, fortunately.
Post by: slzy on February 08, 2007, 05:22:54 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on February 08, 2007, 05:32:47 PM
Post by: slzy on February 08, 2007, 06:20:59 PM