Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: grislyatoms on November 02, 2018, 11:46:01 PM
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I'll stick with .45 ACP.
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I'll stick with 9mm.
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Is there a link for the OP?
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.45 acp is the caliber that works through my best pistols.
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I saw part of the study, 230. I'll try to dig it back up.
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I don't want this to turn into a "who has the bigger dick" argument. I have a 1911 micro running 9mm. I feel completely capable of defending my family with that 9mm. I also feel capable with a 1911 .45.
I have to go with .45 ACP.
I imagine being in a hole in Vietnam, and the NVA is about to over-run the position.
Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.
I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.
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Modern defensive ammunition make the differences negligible... comparison to ball ammo used by military is an apples to basketballs comparison.
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and the NVA is about to over-run the position.
Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.
I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.
1911 = 8 shots before reload.
M9 = 16 shots before reload.
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1911 = 8 shots before reload.
M9 = 16 shots before reload.
Shoot. Them. Both. At. The. Same. Time.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjE2MTY5NzkxOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNTk5OTU1MjE@._V1_UY268_CR87,0,182,268_AL_.jpg)
https://youtu.be/AEEf_00tNos?t=4
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" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."
JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage... :rofl:
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
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Modern defensive ammunition make the differences negligible... comparison to ball ammo used by military is an apples to basketballs comparison.
Modern defensive ammo does not make the difference negligible. Modern 9mm expands more consistently than old JHP designs, but modern .45 ACP also expands more consistently than older JHP designs. The .45 still makes a bigger hole and achieves adequate penetration. What the FBI has really concluded is that 9mm is now "good enough," and since it's less expensive and you can fit more into the same size pistol, it offers some perceived benefits. Some shooters also find 9mm easier to shoot, since the felt recoil is less. A 9mm hit is better than a .45 ACP miss.
I own both, but I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP.
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1911 = 8 shots before reload.
M9 = 16 shots before reload.
1911 = 8 shots on target
M9 = ??? shots on target
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I imagine being in a hole in Vietnam, and the NVA is about to over-run the position.
Two handguns in the hole, a 1911 .45 and a Beretta M9 9mm.
I'm grabbing the 1911 .45 first.
When I was in Vietnam, the M9 wasn't an option ... >:D
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Directions unclear. 9mm rnds barely stay in the mag and won't chamber in my 1911.. >:D
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More often than not I find myself with a 9mm. Hornady XTP, gold dot, or golden saber being the bullet. I am sure they will work just fine. But if I have a 230gr golden saber I imagine that is a more gooder hole. The fact that the little ones are in 30 Rd mags is the deciding factor for me though.
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" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."
JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage... :rofl:
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
And $diety kills a puppy every time you squeeze the trigger.
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And $diety kills a puppy every time you squeeze the trigger.
Aww damn. That's about 3K + dead puppies.
Seriously - a well designed micro 1911 in 9mm is a *joy* to carry and shoot.
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I often carry a 9mm with premium high performance ammo and don't consider myself undergunned . . . but I'm not convinced that it's just as effective as premium high performance .45 ACP ammo.
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As everyone knows, John Browning refused to design or carry anything smaller or less powerful than the. 45 caliber 1911A1.
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I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
The 1960s called. They want you back. =D
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I often carry a 9mm with premium high performance ammo and don't consider myself undergunned . . . but I'm not convinced that it's just as effective as premium high performance .45 ACP ammo.
That's where I am. I wouldn't hesitate to carry premium 9mm. In fact after I move I'm trading my .40s in for 9mm. Yet I find it hard to believe that the same premium ammo in 9mm and .45 will be equal in both calibers. I think mass generally wins out, if only slightly.
I think the argument becomes do you feel better having more rounds available before a reload? A lot of that may have to do with what potential situations you think you may find yourself in. I'd definitely prefer a .45 or 10mm 1911 if I'm hiking in say wolf or lion country, to handle both man and beast, but might prefer 18 rounds of 9mm available in downtown Detroit. Then again, if I put myself in a situation where I need the 18 rounds (or a situation where I'm facing a cougar), I probably should have taken a rifle. =D
Though the "9mm may be easier to shoot [accurately]" is an extremely valid point. I, without trying to brag, am pretty darn good with the 1911, which is why I don't hesitate carrying it. I will note though, that in every defensive pistol class I have taken, I was the only 1911 guy. The instructor I used carried a Sig in .45, and I remember one class where a guy shot a sweet S&W Model 19, and I wouldn't have wanted to get into a gunfight with him - I wouldn't survive. Everyone else shot high capacity 9mms (there may have been some .40s).
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Hell, I more often than not have a Sig p238 (.380) in a sticky holster in my back pocket with two extra mags of SD ammo. Used to be a Bersa Thunder. I carry that rig more often than anything else; almost always on me. I carry the 9mm 1911 on occasion. A govt. sized 1911 sees a little more wear than the 9mm 1911. Now, if I'm going to be poking around in the south side of town, where the goblins live and carry on...Glock .40. (model 22) and 5 fifteen round mags. On a very rare occasion I'll haul around my S&W model 66.
I like all of my choices. Kinda like Ben said - I can shoot a 1911 as well as most, and probably better than my other stuff. Heavier, wider bullet going (relatively) slow or a lighter bullet going faster.I love them all, shoot them all.
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I saw part of the study, 230. I'll try to dig it back up.
:rofl:
Never mind.
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FBI says modern 9mm equals .45 ACP performance
Fickle
" I have a 1911 micro running 9mm."
JMB just cursed your name and vomited in rage... :rofl:
Did his head do 360 degree turn while doing that?
I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
"Muh smoke pole!"
(I've actually been carrying my Taurus snub through this past summer until now.)
Modern defensive ammo does not make the difference negligible. Modern 9mm expands more consistently than old JHP designs, but modern .45 ACP also expands more consistently than older JHP designs. The .45 sill makes a bigger hole and achieves adequate penetration. What the FBI has really concluded is that 9mm is now "good enough," and since it's less expensive and you can fit more into the same size pistol, it offers some perceived benefits. Some shooters also find 9mm easier to shoot, since the felt recoil is less. A 9mm hit is better than a .45 ACP miss.
Lucky Gunner Handgun Ammunition Test (https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/)
Re "9mm is too just as good!": The FBI has a standard. Whether that's an appropriate standard is a separate question. My observation from this is that good 9mm has to try real hard to meet that, whereas .40 and .45 are already there.
I own both, but I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP.
I'm fickle.
As everyone knows, John Browning refused to design or carry anything smaller or less powerful than the. 45 caliber 1911A1.
Oh,you funny. Is .25 ACP Literally the Worst Self-Defense Cartridge? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQszAJZA1Ls)
I realized a bit ago that I'm a "whatever works" guy. Any of the standard cartridges, as long as it works and the size is such that I can carry it and I have a usable holster for it, I'm good.
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I'll stick with my .38 Special or my .357 Magnum.
And .22LR.
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9mm man, even carried 9mm Largo and 9mm Winchester Magnum! Never owned Winchester 9x23 but always lusted after a 1911 in .38 Super.
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I'd definitely prefer a .45 or 10mm 1911 if I'm hiking in say wolf or lion country, to handle both man and beast, but might prefer 18 rounds of 9mm available in downtown Detroit.
I'll take my 14 rounds of .45 ACP over your 18 rounds of 9mm. (Yes, I own and sometimes carry a Para-Ordnance double stack.)
I also own a 9mm ... and a .380 ACP. I don't consider myself to be unarmed with either, but I prefer .45 ACP.
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Just today, as we took the dog to the groomer, went out to breakfast, and then to Hobby Lobby, I had my Taurus poly protector loaded up with five rounds of 125 grain .357 JHP in a IWB holster. And this is for my sleepy town 40 miles north of Seattle. I cannot carry the five days a week when I am at my healthcare job in downtown Seattle.
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Five-shot .38 J-frame in pocket, eight-shot 9mm CW9 on belt.
Gives me a total of 4.625" of bullet diameters.
I rarely carry the 1911 anymore. It only gives me 3.608" of bullet diameters, total.
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I would prefer to carry a .45 1911, but I rarely do. In fact most of the time I'm only carrying a .22Mag NAA PUG. Sometimes you have to carry what you can carry and I figure any gun is better than no gun. My work frowns on carrying, it's extremely unlikely I would ever be found to be carrying with the NAA in my pocket. Something larger in my pocket or on my belt could be to easy to accidentally expose for example while on a ladder, crawling under a desk, presenting in a meeting, or whatever else I may have to do in site of other people.
When I'm not at work I usually carry a SIG P938, it's more comfortable to carry than a full size 1911 yet has more or less the same manual of arms and feel as well as a similar trigger pull. I'm not that concerned about the difference in so called stopping power between 9mm and .45 ACP, but if I was one to open carry I would choose a 1911, but maybe in 9x23 instead of .45.
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And .22LR.
No, I've retired the Taurus.
At the moment I'm carrying an S&W 042 Airweight Centennial exclusively.
I want to add my 38 Airweight Bodyguard (humpback) into the mix but I've not had it to the range yet to make absolutely certain that it fires when I pull the trigger.
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Five-shot .38 J-frame in pocket, eight-shot 9mm CW9 on belt.
Gives me a total of 4.625" of bullet diameters.
I rarely carry the 1911 anymore. It only gives me 3.608" of bullet diameters, total.
Could you translate that over to the more commonly used and more relevant "total of cross-sectional areas"? =D >:D
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Could you translate that over to the more commonly used and more relevant "total of cross-sectional areas"? =D >:D
No. Numbersup in air jellify brain.
Relevant:
Gun.
.38/9mm
Bang.
Bad guy "Ow!"
Gun.
.45
Bang.
Bad guy "Ow!"
Gun.
.22 Mag NAA PUG
Bang.
Bad guy "Ow!"
Relevant: Bad guy "Ow!"
Terry, 230RN
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Shot Placement for the win men.
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All this talk about 9mm and .45, meh.
Get a 10mm and call it good. ;)
bob
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Get a 10mm and call it good. ;)
bob
10mm is just .40S&W Long. Change my mind.
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Meh. All this talk of follow on shots. Use enough gun.
https://youtu.be/nax7El5hIHg?t=155
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When I get to Idaho I'm going to turn into Lucian Connally and start carrying my Vaquero .45LC in a crossdraw. That'll be enough gun. =D
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Bah! To All this caliber-war stuff. I don't even bother with a gun anymore.
i carry a pair of small but obviously rabid monkeys in a basket with me at all times.
It has increased my personal level of security to a level I had not previously enjoyed as people will not even come near me now.
"Don't go near the monkey-man." "Don't look at him...or them...in the eyes." "Dear God, the stench." "Let's just go." I hear them whisper to one another.
People will also get out of whatever line I happen to join which means my wait times at all manner of places has been reduced to almost nil.
So keep your guns! I've found the killer app for personal protection!
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All this talk about 9mm and .45, meh.
Get a 10mm .500 S&W Magnum and call it good. ;)
bob
Fixed.
:P
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I've been toying with the idea of carrying the S&W .40 I picked up a couple of years ago.
This past weekend a friend gifted me nearly 300 rounds of high quality Speer and Winchester HP ammo.
Now I just need a range trip to make sure it feeds in my gun...
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Fixed.
:P
Well it does come in a pocket carry version. Big pockets of course.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/mgm-content/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2014/10/28/3649875_01_500_s_w_magnum_2_3_4_inch_barr_640.jpg)
bob
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I remember reading dozens of magazines back in the 80s and 90s about "one shot stop" capability of the various calibers, and I remember thinking that shooting multiple rounds on target would increase those odds substantially. In other words, shoot until the threat ends. So, I carry a 9mm because I can shoot it faster and more accurately in a handgun I can carry daily. Yes, some times my wardrobe requires a .38 or .380, and with more range time I could shoot a .45 as well as I shoot a 9mm, but for now, I'm going with the 9mm, the best HP ammo that shoots well in my guns, and feeling okay about it.
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You logic has no place here. Begone, foreigner!
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The John Ross .500 was made for carry, hunting, bear defense....
http://www.gunblast.com/LT_SW-JohnRoss500.htm
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The John Ross .500 was made for carry, hunting, bear defense....
http://www.gunblast.com/LT_SW-JohnRoss500.htm
I remember when S&W made two survival kits, bear defense packages. One was the 500 S&W (Orange box and grips) and the other was the S&W 460 (Yellow box and grips). Both were sub 3" barrels. I don't think they did very well in the market place because they disappeared fairly quickly from the catalog.
bob