Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MillCreek on December 12, 2018, 10:53:28 AM
-
https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/killer-opioid-fentanyl-could-be-a-weapon-of-mass-destruction#gs.ZN3iJCE
I have read in my EMS journals about LE/fire/EMS getting inadvertently contaminated with fentanyl at crime sites and needing emergency resuscitation. I was interested to read in the article that a single-dose fentanyl antidote is being worked on; some patients using heroin cut with fentanyl or even worse, carfentanil, require several Narcan doses to bring them back. The Russians showed us the way of using fentanyl as a weapon with the aerosolized fentanyl used during the theater siege a few years back. I wonder if anyone is going to follow their lead.
-
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/03/business/fentanyl-china-trump.html
It’s been pretty effective in the new Opium Wars being waged against us also.
-
There's "could" and then there is "would." Why would a potential terrorist want to use fentanyl versus another type of chemical agent? Many police and most EMS carry doses of naloxone. While a mass casualty scenario would be a nightmare no matter what especially if multiple doses were required per victim, there would still be some effective on-site treatment available. Seems like a more traditional chemical agent (nerve agents, blistering agents, choking agents, cyanides, etc) would likely be easier to obtain precursors for and even harder for emergency services to react to.
-
There's "could" and then there is "would." Why would a potential terrorist want to use fentanyl versus another type of chemical agent? Many police and most EMS carry doses of naloxone. While a mass casualty scenario would be a nightmare no matter what especially if multiple doses were required per victim, there would still be some effective on-site treatment available. Seems like a more traditional chemical agent (nerve agents, blistering agents, choking agents, cyanides, etc) would likely be easier to obtain precursors for and even harder for emergency services to react to.
Plus the terror aspect of chemical weapons, which is non-existent in fentanyl.
-
Plus the terror aspect of chemical weapons, which is non-existent in fentanyl.
A bunch of people falling asleep and not waking up is pretty scary, but I agree that people running around with blistered skin coughing up foamy blood is a little more terrorgenic.
-
The obvious solution to fentanyl being used as a weapon is to really crack down hard on legal and proper opioid prescriptions for people with real chronic pain issues.
-
There's "could" and then there is "would." Why would a potential terrorist want to use fentanyl versus another type of chemical agent? Many police and most EMS carry doses of naloxone. While a mass casualty scenario would be a nightmare no matter what especially if multiple doses were required per victim, there would still be some effective on-site treatment available. Seems like a more traditional chemical agent (nerve agents, blistering agents, choking agents, cyanides, etc) would likely be easier to obtain precursors for and even harder for emergency services to react to.
Perhaps because there is a Fentanyl/carfentanil smuggling pipeline to the US. And there isn't one for mustard gas, sarin, etc. Those you'd have to synthesize yourself.
The Fentanyl is compact, and potent. And it doesn't require much beyond basic plastic bagging to seal and transport it. No gas cylinders, no potentially volatile liquids etc.
The entry barrier to other chemical attacks is obtaining precursor chemicals, mixing/reacting them, and then capturing the end product in a way a terrorist can deploy. For strong synthetic narcotics, it's just money, figuring out a black market contact, then just opening/shaking the bag by a fan, or into an air duct, or contaminating surfaces the public would come into contact with.
Also, if people get tired, pass out quietly, instead of coughing, burning, blistering, screaming etc. it could generate a higher body count because it's less likely someone would flee or raise an alarm. Conversely, with it quiet, more victims might wander in.
-
Perhaps because there is a Fentanyl/carfentanil smuggling pipeline to the US. And there isn't one for mustard gas, sarin, etc. Those you'd have to synthesize yourself.
The Fentanyl is compact, and potent. And it doesn't require much beyond basic plastic bagging to seal and transport it. No gas cylinders, no potentially volatile liquids etc.
The entry barrier to other chemical attacks is obtaining precursor chemicals, mixing/reacting them, and then capturing the end product in a way a terrorist can deploy. For strong synthetic narcotics, it's just money, figuring out a black market contact, then just opening/shaking the bag by a fan, or into an air duct, or contaminating surfaces the public would come into contact with.
Also, if people get tired, pass out quietly, instead of coughing, burning, blistering, screaming etc. it could generate a higher body count because it's less likely someone would flee or raise an alarm. Conversely, with it quiet, more victims might wander in.
I used to make the stuff at work, Carfentanyl, fentanyl citrate, and a few others. It was always one guy in a level B chemical suit/supplied Air respirator, working in a small airlocked room, running the reactions in a glove box, with a 'spotter' outside the lab suited up with a narcan injector at hand. One guy got injected once, because he merely thought he got splashed with a solution and may have been feeling a little dizzy because of psychosomatic response.