Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: MillCreek on January 23, 2019, 05:33:13 PM
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https://www.npr.org/2019/01/23/687715869/should-young-americans-be-required-to-do-public-service-federal-panel-says-maybe?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=npr&utm_term=nprnews&utm_content=20190123&fbclid=IwAR0-ZapJmZtznwj-MtHLIZS7pGj_UuCmzdMVPD67ZVYjpwH3qfnvlEVKy0I
This commission is also looking at many other things, such as requiring women to register for the draft, etc. I have often thought we need the 21st century equivalent of the Civilian Conservation Corps, to start working on the billions of dollars of backlogged upkeep and new construction in our National Parks and other wilderness lands.
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I have always thought we should have mandatory service. You get to pick between military, healthcare, national parks, maybe some infrastructure building, stuff like that. Everyone serves. Make it somewhat flexible so people can attend college, or pursue trades. Some of that could be done at the same time. We would still need professional volunteer military, this could lead to that for those so inclined so no draft, outside a WW2 situation people completing their service don’t get sent overseas.
I actually think it would help people to have more pride in the country and help teach life skills.
Most important though. If you don’t participate and complete your service you don’t get to vote.
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Like every good American, I also favor mandatory left-wing indoctrination camps.
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Like every good American, I also favor mandatory left-wing indoctrination camps.
Yea, what we imagine and what we would get probably would be two different things.
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Make it retail, hospitality, customer service, or internship in a service/trade and I might just be on board.
Brad
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:rofl:
Much right of center. Very wow. So limited government.
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I have always thought we should have mandatory service. You get to pick between military, healthcare, national parks, maybe some infrastructure building, stuff like that. Everyone serves. Make it somewhat flexible so people can attend college, or pursue trades. Some of that could be done at the same time. We would still need professional volunteer military, this could lead to that for those so inclined so no draft, outside a WW2 situation people completing their service don’t get sent overseas.
I actually think it would help people to have more pride in the country and help teach life skills.
Most important though. If you don’t participate and complete your service you don’t get to vote.
Service Guarantees Citizenship!
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Service Guarantees Citizenship!
Would You Like To Know More?
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I once worked with a physician who went to medical school in West Germany and subsequently came over here. He said that West Germany (at least at the time) had mandatory national service for young people, and if you did not want to join the military, you did 'a social year' doing scut work in a hospital, nursing home or some other human services work. He was in favor of it.
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Hell.No.
Mandatory servitude is a happy-feely way of saying slavery.
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Hell.No.
Mandatory servitude is a happy-feely way of saying slavery.
Indeed. I much prefer them just ponying up the money to do things properly, if they're going to do them. Rather than drafting people.
That said, I also support the government being some sort of employer of last resort. It shouldn't pay much, but be kind of like enlisting in the Army as an E-1 Open. They decide where you're going to work, what you will be working on, provide training if necessary, and provide food, shelter, and clothing while paying you a minimal stipend.
Hell, give them something like 1/2 of the GI bill. 4 years gives two years of some equivalent of GI bill benefits.
Just have it be all volunteer.
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Absolutely positively not
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Indeed. I much prefer them just ponying up the money to do things properly, if they're going to do them. Rather than drafting people.
That said, I also support the government being some sort of employer of last resort. It shouldn't pay much, but be kind of like enlisting in the Army as an E-1 Open. They decide where you're going to work, what you will be working on, provide training if necessary, and provide food, shelter, and clothing while paying you a minimal stipend.
Hell, give them something like 1/2 of the GI bill. 4 years gives two years of some equivalent of GI bill benefits.
Just have it be all volunteer.
It will just become a new form of welfare and some judge will tell them they can't force them to work and they have to pay for sex changes and drug/needles.
As said above, what you imagine and what will actually happen are two different things. The worst version of your idea you can imagine probably gets you half way there.
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Hell.No.
Mandatory servitude is a happy-feely way of saying slavery.
I was going to say "Lotsa luck getting anything mandatory nowadays."
So you beat me to it.
Oh, won't the law indu$try have a field day ha$hing thi$ one out?
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I do favor the USA setting up mandatory militia training and service for young men like the Swiss do it- but only if they can take their weapon home like the Swiss. It would do a lot to make the Second Amendment a more effective deterrent on tyranny, as it was originally designed to do. I admire the Swiss system. It helps keep the gov accountable.
Mandatory militia service was pretty standard in the colonial period and early USA.
I do absolutely oppose mandatory "social service" rubbish. More slave-like left wing indoctrination.
Women in the draft? Get the women out of all combat position in the military instead.
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Like every good American, I also favor mandatory left-wing indoctrination camps.
Thread win, full stop.
"mandatory" anything is unamerican. Period.
Could you require service to receive certain perks? Sure. Free college? Access to the GI Bill via conservation corps, etc?
But mandatory? *expletive deleted*ck no.
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The idea that universal militia training would prevent tyranny is the exact reason why the idea will be quashed at every opportunity.
The local HS which my son attends requires 100 hrs of volunteer service in order to graduate.
I’m very much opposed to this nonsense as well, it really degrades the meaning of volunteering when you are required to do it.
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Get the women out of all combat position in the military instead.
;/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8408236/Female-medic-awarded-Military-Cross-for-bravery.html
Women have been defacto in combat positions for over 30 years. And the invasion into Iraq was telling of such. Convoy drivers. Pilots. Many other positions that aren't combat, but being placed into harms way and having to act.
You think women can't perform in a combat role?
They already have.
My Marine Sister Lt. Turpin is a prime example
https://www.mcbhawaii.marines.mil/News/News-Article-Display/Article/539638/54-hours-of-valor-female-marine-awarded-combat-v/
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Perhaps not mandatory, but maybe there is a viable way to incentivize a voluntary year of service at ~18. A college stipend or $5000 put into an IRA or something.
Only because I have found that people I interacted with in my working years who have done "dirty jobs" (in the Mike Rowe sense) have generally been better grounded and seemed to have more common sense than those who went from High School to college to a cubicle in a govt office.
If nothing else, working as a roustabout in the oil patch instead of going to college right out of High School taught me that I didn't want to do hard labor all my life and made me appreciate the job I got after paying my way through college. Many times when I was having a bad day at work I thought to myself, "You could be carrying bags of sandblasting sand up three floors of ladders on an offshore rig." And I also happened to learn a lot of manly tool skills during that time that came in handy later in life. "Specialization is for insects."
Edit: Jamis hit on the incentivizing while I was typing.
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Deleted.
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Eff this.
This is using coercion to create a class of "super citizens" who get special benefits versus those that may choose not to do the service. Or those that have religious/philosophical objections to the forms of service the government wants versus alternatives in the private charitable sector or just plain old private sector.
And on top of that, it's using stolen tax revenues to accomplish the goal.
I already loathe every cent the government takes from me via sales/income/property taxes (I can accept more market-oriented approaches to usage fees for certain government services, i.e. airport taxes on plane tickets and similar). I'll loathe it to a higher degree if my stolen money is used to indoctrinate and create more AOC's via additional year(s) of commie/statist exposure on top of everything received from public schools.
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I should add something regarding "Conservation Corps".
California has the California Conservation Corps. I may be prejudiced, or may simply not have enough data points, but whenever I see a van load of these kids, it reminds me more of a Juvie road crew doing their community service in lieu of jail time than it does bright young kids doing good works on their way to a bright future.
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;/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/afghanistan/8408236/Female-medic-awarded-Military-Cross-for-bravery.html
Women have been defacto in combat positions for over 30 years. And the invasion into Iraq was telling of such. Convoy drivers. Pilots. Many other positions that aren't combat, but being placed into harms way and having to act.
You think women can't perform in a combat role?
They already have.
My Marine Sister Lt. Turpin is a prime example
https://www.mcbhawaii.marines.mil/News/News-Article-Display/Article/539638/54-hours-of-valor-female-marine-awarded-combat-v/
Women on average make worse soldiers than men. The perform worse on military tasks. They are injured more frequently. This is based on women average lack of strength and greater body frailty to injury. That is an empirical fact that can be determined by testing. And it has been:
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-in-marines-infantry-experiment/
Like you said, some women are brave and perform well. But on average, women do much worse, and adding them to units makes the whole unit perform worse. That is an actual fact, not anecdotes based on exceptional individuals.
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Keeping standards for such roles high is the obvious answer. Anyone that can perform at the required level should be allowed to do the job.
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Women on average make worse soldiers than men. The perform worse on military tasks. They are injured more frequently. This is based on women average lack of strength and greater body frailty to injury. That is an empirical fact that can be determined by testing. And it has been:
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/your-marine-corps/2015/09/10/mixed-gender-teams-come-up-short-in-marines-infantry-experiment/
Like you said, some women are brave and perform well. But on average, women do much worse, and adding them to units makes the whole unit perform worse. That is an actual fact, not anecdotes based on exceptional individuals.
So as long as standards are kept high, there will always be few women in combat so it all works itself out. =)
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Perhaps not mandatory, but maybe there is a viable way to incentivize a voluntary year of service at ~18. A college stipend or $5000 put into an IRA or something.
Only because I have found that people I interacted with in my working years who have done "dirty jobs" (in the Mike Rowe sense) have generally been better grounded and seemed to have more common sense than those who went from High School to college to a cubicle in a govt office.
If nothing else, working as a roustabout in the oil patch instead of going to college right out of High School taught me that I didn't want to do hard labor all my life and made me appreciate the job I got after paying my way through college. Many times when I was having a bad day at work I thought to myself, "You could be carrying bags of sandblasting sand up three floors of ladders on an offshore rig." And I also happened to learn a lot of manly tool skills during that time that came in handy later in life. "Specialization is for insects."
Edit: Jamis hit on the incentivizing while I was typing.
What AZRedhawk44 said.
Also, considering how corrupt many things are, there is no way to guarantee EVERY kid did hard work or learned anything. More than likely you would see 10 people assigned to do the work that 1 or 2 people should do and all it would teach is laziness. Then you would have the kids with connected parents getting assigned to cushy jobs as an intern for a Congressman or something and learning nothing but how to spend more of my money. Then you would see someone sue because they were a different race and were assigned to clean toilets somewhere and the resultant anti-discrimination policies would screw it up even more.
With our current govt, it would just be a big waste of time and money and full of indoctrination disguised as "training".
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What would be better IMO, is to get rid of food stamps and welfare and force young people to get a job or starve. That would be the best way to learn the value of hard work.
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What AZRedhawk44 said.
Also, considering how corrupt many things are, there is no way to guarantee EVERY kid did hard work or learned anything. More than likely you would see 10 people assigned to do the work that 1 or 2 people should do and all it would teach is laziness. Then you would have the kids with connected parents getting assigned to cushy jobs as an intern for a Congressman or something and learning nothing but how to spend more of my money. Then you would see someone sue because they were a different race and were assigned to clean toilets somewhere and the resultant anti-discrimination policies would screw it up even more.
With our current govt, it would just be a big waste of time and money and full of indoctrination disguised as "training".
>:D
Give all of the kids a paycheck for $15/hr.
Take out federal/state/FICA from the checks.
Take the remainder of the money and mark it as something lefty sounding like :donated to the less fortunate, or for feeding refugees in east elbonia.
>:D
They will learn something from this.
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There is an “internet law” or meme out there something to the effect that “Any organization whose purpose and staff is not overtly right wing will eventually become a leftist organization.”
Like public schools this would just become another avenue for leftist indoctrination.
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You think women can't perform in a combat role?
They already have.
I'm sure they can. It's not a question of can. It's a question of, should we knowingly put women in that kind of danger, even if they volunteer? The answer is, no, we should not treat women that way, even if some think it grants women some kind of empowerment or dignity. It is wrong.
Like public schools this would just become another avenue for leftist indoctrination.
Of course.
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I'm sure they can. It's not a question of can. It's a question of, should we knowingly put women in that kind of danger, even if they volunteer? The answer is, no, we should not treat women that way, even if some think it grants women some kind of empowerment or dignity. It is wrong.
Of course.
If my son can get drafted and shot at, I see no reason why my daughter should not be afforded the same opportunity.
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If my son can get drafted and shot at, I see no reason why my daughter should not be afforded the same opportunity.
Can't figure that out, huh?
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Someone said,
If my son can get drafted and shot at, I see no reason why my daughter should not be afforded the same opportunity.
Can't figure that out, huh?
Unless someone is kidding, I think someone forgot the baby-making ratio.
One man can make a hundred babies in nine months.
But one woman cannot make a hundred babies in nine months.
A lot of people forget that the two sexes should not be treated identically in all respects. That's a real fact of life, to be ignored at your cultural peril.
Terry, not a misogynist, but a realist, 230RN
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^^^And this is exactly the sort of thinking that even the younger Republicans, as mentioned in another thread will be supplanting as they grow older. How many 20-30 year olds think about gender roles as do you and Fistful? Not very many, I bet. And for that matter, darn few of my 50 year old plus social and professional circles feel that way.
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^^^And this is exactly the sort of thinking that even the younger Republicans, as mentioned in another thread will be supplanting as they grow older. How many 20-30 year olds think about gender roles as do you and Fistful? Not very many, I bet. And for that matter, darn few of my 50 year old plus social and professional circles feel that way.
"And that after this is accomplished, and the brave new world begins
When all men are paid for existing and no man must pay for his sins,
As surely as Water will wet us, as surely as Fire will burn,
The Gods of the Copybook Headings with terror and slaughter return!"
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^^^And this is exactly the sort of thinking that even the younger Republicans, as mentioned in another thread will be supplanting as they grow older. How many 20-30 year olds think about gender roles as do you and Fistful? Not very many, I bet. And for that matter, darn few of my 50 year old plus social and professional circles feel that way.
It's funny to me that you think you need to explain this to us.
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I'm reminded of Theodore Dalrymple talking to a young lady about the dangers of dating an abusive man (after having been abused) in "Life at the bottom"
(Paraphrasing)
"I can take care of myself!"
But men are generally physically stronger than women and you are putting yourself in danger with such men.
"That's sexist!"
Shorter? Reality doesn't care about your feelings.
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It's funny to me that you think you need to explain this to us.
So you are against mansplaining? You are so woke.
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It's not a question of can. It's a question of should... It is wrong.
Reality doesn't care about your feelings.
???
I'm not sure anyone is even talking about the same thing here anymore, but my gut says fistful is wrong.
Although it's a man gut so maybe I shouldn't trust it.
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So you are against mansplaining? You are so woke.
Like the profile says, I'm more into gunsplaining.
I don't understand responding to someone's viewpoint by saying that his ideas are no longer in style. Is that how you form your opinions? Majority rules? ???
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First world countries go crazy destroying their cultures and religion, stop breeding then import new citizens.
Doesn’t seem very sustainable.
Mandatory service to the state? Is that like catechism class for the unbelievers where they learn how to properly serve the state? :laugh:
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Someone said,
Unless someone is kidding, I think someone forgot the baby-making ratio.
One man can make a hundred babies in nine months.
But one woman cannot make a hundred babies in nine months.
A lot of people forget that the two sexes should not be treated identically in all respects. That's a real fact of life, to be ignored at your cultural peril.
Terry, not a misogynist, but a realist, 230RN
And in just what scenario do you see one man essentially breeding 100 women? How's that work with the whole one man and one woman thing? And for the government interference that would certainly be necessary to facilitate such I'm gonna go ahead and guess you'd scream bloody murder. Cause being drafted into being a brood mare is so much better than potentially being shot at.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
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And in just what scenario do you see one man essentially breeding 100 women? How's that work with the whole one man and one woman thing? And for the government interference that would certainly be necessary to facilitate such I'm gonna go ahead and guess you'd scream bloody murder. Cause being drafted into being a brood mare is so much better than potentially being shot at.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
If I may, I believe his point was sperm is cheap, eggs are priceless.
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Someone said,
Unless someone is kidding, I think someone forgot the baby-making ratio.
One man can make a hundred babies in nine months.
But one woman cannot make a hundred babies in nine months.
A lot of people forget that the two sexes should not be treated identically in all respects. That's a real fact of life, to be ignored at your cultural peril.
Terry, not a misogynist, but a realist, 230RN
If you're a government accountant, basic math says that while 1 woman can make 1 baby in 9 months, nine women can make that 1 baby in 1 month.
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If you're a government accountant, basic math says that while 1 woman can make 1 baby in 9 months, nine women can make that 1 baby in 1 month.
I sincerely doubt it works that way ..... [tinfoil]
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If I may, I believe his point was sperm is cheap, eggs are priceless.
You may. ✓ and thanks.
If you're a government accountant, basic math says that while 1 woman can make 1 baby in 9 months, nine women can make that 1 baby in 1 month.
Good one. I heard that joke in relation to something else.
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I sincerely doubt it works that way ..... [tinfoil]
Then don't bother applying for any government accounting jobs. ;)
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Mandatory service? Hell no, too many retards make it through boot already.
Extra incentives for prior service? Not opposed.
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I'm not sure where exactly this fits in, but when I was in high school I wanted to take some classes at the local vocational technical school. Later in high school I had extra space in my schedule which I wanted to use learning some metal fab. I had every intention on moving right on into a bachelors program after high school, but with some free time, why not learn some hands on stuff I wanted to know.
I was strongly, strongly advised against this by everyone. High school guidance counselors, college admission folks, family, etc. all said I should not do that. The reason being that it would look bad to admissions folks; it would look like I was not committed to a path of higher education.
I found this frustrating. It felt like social expectations dictated that learning hands on skills was beneath someone who was pursuing a professional position. Later on in life after graduating and getting a professional job, I went back to night school at a local community college to improve my hands on skills in topics that interest me.
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^^^^
My son wants to be an engineer.
He’s in all the right classes in a very good HS which should prepare him well.
My best hope is that he takes a few metal working electives- his school has an incredible machine shop.
His mom keeps pushing him to take fluff classes for electives, all I can to is to plant the seed.
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He would be better off career wise. They value hands on experience. One of the reasons a major company hired my BIL after he went into engineering was he had years of practical experience as an auto mechanic
The high schools push college because they get a kickback and it makes them look better to have more students go on to four year colleges. They don’t give a flying *expletive deleted*ck about what’s good for the student. Couple that with the the way society looks down upon the trades and little wonder the extreme need for replacements for the retiring ones.
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If I may, I believe his point was sperm is cheap, eggs are priceless.
And my point is that short of something even more appalling, priceless is about accurate since it's a worthless comparison.
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He would be better off career wise. They value hands on experience. One of the reasons a major company hired my BIL after he went into engineering was he had years of practical experience as an auto mechanic
The high schools push college because they get a kickback and it makes them look better to have more students go on to four year colleges. They don’t give a flying *expletive deleted*ck about what’s good for the student. Couple that with the the way society looks down upon the trades and little wonder the extreme need for replacements for the retiring ones.
I am in awe of what's out there that I never knew about when in HS. My best friend worked in the chemistry field for 15 years, learned business concepts/lean manufacturing on the job, then taught himself machining, and more importantly CAD/CAM/CNC by watching youtube videos, and bought himself a VMC and a lathe so he could make niche market race car parts out of his garage. He now manages a large machine shop.
The day After Christmas, I had a sewage/septic problem. Called a plumber, who referred me to a pumping service, which quickly came to my house. I spent a couple of hours helping the guy running hoses, electrical cords, holding flashlights and asking him questions. He ended up pumping the septic, testing the system, roto-rootering out the soil pipe, fixed the problem. $475 for 2.5 hrs work- and I felt the money was well worth it.
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As an engineer, I can tell you that the more hands on experience you have, the better off you will be IMO. It helps you learn and understand the classwork if you have applications in mind to make it a little more real. Hands on experience teaches you a little bit more about how simple everyday things work so you can get past the simple and get on to the real problems.
My boss is not an engineer, but when he hires process operators he said his favorite question to ask what hobbies they have and see if they know how to work on small engines and such. Maybe fall back to asking how a toilet works with the float and plug and stuff. If they don't know that simple stuff, they are going to have issues trying to understand how an 11,000 horsepower reciprocating compressor works.
and 2) I think many employers like seeing more than just a fast food job on your resume.