Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on February 14, 2019, 04:07:10 PM
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Well crap. To avoid a shutdown, Trump is signing the spending bill and then declaring a national emergency for the wall. I really didn't want to see it go in that direction.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/mcconnell-says-trump-prepared-to-sign-border-security-bill-and-will-declare-national-emergency
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I didn't want to see it either but when he didn't get the funding before the Dems took over the house the failure to get funding was almost a certainty. I think this is the only way he *may* be able to build a wall. It was the cornerstone of his campaign and with the Dems controlling the House he doesn't stand a chance to get funding through the normal legislative channels. If he want the Rs to have any control after 2020 (POTUS, Senate or House) this is a necessary step.
bob
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I didn't want to see it either but when he didn't get the funding before the Dems took over the house the failure to get funding was almost a certainty. I think this is the only way he *may* be able to build a wall. It was the cornerstone of his campaign and with the Dems controlling the House he doesn't stand a chance to get funding through the normal legislative channels. If he want the Rs to have any control after 2020 (POTUS, Senate or House) this is a necessary step.
bob
Yeah, I get it in that regard. I just so hate "pen and phone" though, because we end up paying for it later when another Obama gets in.
I wish there were a way for him to have said, "We're taking the train money back from CA and using that for the wall. "
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I don't think this is going to really be as big of a deal as a lot of people make it out to be. I suspect it's going to be tied up in courts with minimal real world impact for quite awhile. Meanwhile Trump can claim he's fighting hard and lay the blame elsewhere.
That being said, it's a very bad precedent and I don't support it.
We know this seems increasingly quaint, especially after President Obama’s pen-and-phone governance in his second term, but we believe presidents have an obligation to honor the role of the respective branches of government, even when it’s not in their political interest, even when there seems to be a clever workaround.
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This is not how its supposed to work :mad:
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Rush was talking about it today. There was much more wrong with that deal than anyone was saying. It was like Obama Care. Pass the bill and we'll find out later what was in it. It had many things wrong with it besides not enough dough for the wall. Rush said he should just move appropriated money around and do what needs to be done and let the Ds sue to stop him and the truth about the Ds and RINOs will become more evident.
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
If they do that it will quickly become a self fulfilling prophecy.
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
Well, I think she is correct, and this points out the inherent risks of using emergency powers.
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
I love how the dems are foaming at the mouth over Trump doing this, which is and absolute requirement and responsibility of the Federal government, and on the other hand threatening a clearly stated part of the bill of rights as retribution.
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If only one side is playing by the rules it’s no longer a game.
This is a knife fight, you guys haven’t figured that out yet?
Plus what he ^ said above me.
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This is a knife fight, you guys haven’t figured that out yet?
That's why I have guns.
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That's why I have guns.
Which Pelosi, Schumer and Company want to take away from you.
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Which Pelosi, Schumer and Company want to take away from you.
Rule 7.62, eventually, at this point.
There is no soft landing, plan accordingly.
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
Does anyone think that If Trump had not declared this emergency, Pelosi, Feinstein, Schumer, et al, would have then turned pro-gun and joined the N. R. A.? [popcorn]
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And Pelosi is threatening that if Trump declares an emergency at the border, the next [Democratic] president can declare "gun violence" an emergency.
The declaration of emergency lets trump use funds the mil has designated for construction to be used for constructing a different structures (like the wall, supposedly).
I'm not sure how this could be used for gun bans, since it is just shuffling construction funds around.
If I am wrong, I would sure like to know.
One thing I do know is the Republican party's refusal to fund the wall when they had power was absolutely disgraceful.
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I think Trump should veto the bill, as the Dems have loaded this bill up with roadblocks to the wall and the Republicans have happily gone along. And then declare the emergency, anyway.
SHUT IT DOWN.
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The declaration of emergency lets trump use funds the mil has designated for construction to be used for constructing a different structures (like the wall, supposedly).
I'm not sure how this could be used for gun bans, since it is just shuffling construction funds around.
If I am wrong, I would sure like to know.
One thing I do know is the Republican party's refusal to fund the wall when they had power was absolutely disgraceful.
Pelosi and "We'll do it for guns" is, IMO, more of a scare tactic. Guns would be much harder to do because they're mentioned as the second item in that whatchyamacallit document.
They could much more easily do "climate change" though, using the identical arguments Trump is using, and the same methods to pay for it. And unlike a wall at the border, that "emergency" would negatively affect every single person in the United States. Well, except for alternative power companies, enviro NGOs, and politicians with ties to them.
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I think Trump should veto the bill, as the Dems have loaded this bill up with roadblocks to the wall and the Republicans have happily gone along. And then declare the emergency, anyway.
SHUT IT DOWN.
Absolutely agree. Democrats have demonstrated (again) that they will not negotiate in good faith and are not to be trusted.
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I think the next Dem president will try that tactic whether Trump uses it or not.
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I think Trump should veto the bill, as the Dems have loaded this bill up with roadblocks to the wall and the Republicans have happily gone along. And then declare the emergency, anyway.
SHUT IT DOWN.
That was what I was thinking. VETO the bill, do his emergency, then tell the RHINOS in Congress to negotiate a budget without the wall.
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As far as the courts go, my understanding is there is some authority for the President to take action when it comes to border security since that is sort of a Constitutional mandate. I heard somewhere that the administration was planning on a legal battle.
As far as guns are concerned, declaring an emergency that violates a constitutional right for something that is completely extra-Constitutional is a bigger stretch. I am sure Dems wouldn't mind doing it and I am sure at least some judges would back them up.
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Building project vs suspending a constitutional right?
Apple this orange. Orange this is apple.
Of course many dems don't see it that way.
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I heard somewhere that the administration was planning on a legal battle.
I'm just listening to a Trump news conference. He's stating he expects this to get tied up in the 9th circuit initially, then go back and forth and finally end in the Supreme Court. He made it sound like a very long time before a final ruling.
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Are we headed to a "Papers Please" situation with the "Wall"?
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Are we headed to a "Papers Please" situation with the "Wall"?
I've never considered showing my ID/Passport an unreasonable restriction when entering someone else's country...
Edited to correct spelling
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Are we headed to a "Papers Please" situation with the "Wall"?
We’re already there.
Last time I drove up to Canada, 2014, they found a restricted item in my buddies car.
All my papers were in order.
After 15 minutes of sitting in an empty room alone, waiting for them to run my info, the BP guy comes back in and asks me about my arrest in 1983. A case the judge threw out due to it being an obvious case of mistaken identity.
A half hour after that we were back on our way with my buddy getting a warning.
The safe border is policed to the extreme. The unsafe border is purposefully left unprotected and wide open.
Why?
Build the wall!
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Are we headed to a "Papers Please" situation with the "Wall"?
Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you. That's exactly what's supposed to happen at a border. I've been to a dozen countries, including Mexico, and they all made me show my passport and in some instances a visa, to get in.
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Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you. That's exactly what's supposed to happen at a border. I've been to a dozen countries, including Mexico, and they all made me show my passport and in some instances a visa, to get in.
The same thing has happened to me more times than I can count. Fly in on an obvious military aircraft, get met by embassy people for transport, stop at the "papers please check" station in the host country and then on your way. Sending people to Saudi Arabia in 1989 was even more complicated, we had to send the host nation a list of people we were sending in and the ones we were pulling out at least two weeks in advance so they could be checked. I don't consider having to show my passport or other from of ID when entering a foreign country legally a nuisance. It is the way things are done in civilized (and some not so civilized) countries.
bob
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Not sure if I'm misunderstanding you. That's exactly what's supposed to happen at a border. I've been to a dozen countries, including Mexico, and they all made me show my passport and in some instances a visa, to get in.
At ports of entry yes, supposed to be that way, but anytime you are stopped by leo or have interactions with government workers you'll have to show proof of us citizenship.
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I possibly see where you are coming from. Maybe as you are driving along minding your business about 98 miles from the Southern border and you get stopped at checkpoint manned by armed men and they ask for your proof of citizenship rather than just ask or look at you. If "asking for papers" is upheld there where will it stop? I don't see this happening in my lifetime, but in someone else's lifetime it could surely be a possibility as the need for national security overrides the due process we are so fond of now. Things that make you think outside the box.
bob
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/us/politics/trump-national-emergency-congress.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
More concern over the use of emergency powers by a President.
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The proper time to declare an emergency and build a wall has come and gone. It was when the dems were on the beach in Puerto Rico.
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I possibly see where you are coming from. Maybe as you are driving along minding your business about 98 miles from the Southern border and you get stopped at checkpoint manned by armed men and they ask for your proof of citizenship rather than just ask or look at you. If "asking for papers" is upheld there where will it stop? I don't see this happening in my lifetime, but in someone else's lifetime it could surely be a possibility as the need for national security overrides the due process we are so fond of now. Things that make you think outside the box.
bob
A wall isn't going to work, you can always go around a wall. Trains and trucks cross the border everyday, once this wall is established there are going to be a lot more dead bodies in truck trailers and train cars.
Like I have been saying if Trump, the GOP or Democrats were really serious about illegal immigration they would be going after those who employ illegal aliens. Too much campaign money comes from those who take advantage of the exploitable labor of the illegal aliens.
Also we are willingly asking for more government control and doing it as declaring an emergency (Patriot Act anyone?). This is going to come back full circle when another party is in charge and we are going to lose a lot of freedoms because of this. Don't you think folks like the AOR would love to force everyone into urban centers and force us into the green deal?
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but anytime you are stopped by leo or have interactions with government workers you'll have to show proof of us citizenship.
Well, that's a bit wide-ranging.
When I'm out walking down the sidewalk minding my own business, do I want a cop demanding my ID? No, absolutely not. However for certain interactions, like getting my driver's license or voting, I absolutely want them demanding my ID and proof of US citizenship.
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At ports of entry yes, supposed to be that way, but anytime you are stopped by leo or have interactions with government workers you'll have to show proof of us citizenship.
There's this magic new thing that any sane country would employ called profiling.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/us/border-migrants-asylum-mexico-aclu.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Many of the migrant caravan are giving up and either going back home or staying in Mexico.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/16/us/border-migrants-asylum-mexico-aclu.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
Many of the migrant caravan are giving up and either going back home or staying in Mexico.
Donald Trump: Slayer of Dreams
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/15/us/politics/trump-national-emergency-congress.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
More concern over the use of emergency powers by a President.
So they could use the act to enforce current laws?
The president cannot write law. They can enforce current federal law, that's it.
So a future dem could use the act to step up enforcement of straw purchasing? Firearms trafficking?
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So they could use the act to enforce current laws?
The president cannot write law. They can enforce current federal law, that's it.
So a future dem could use the act to step up enforcement of straw purchasing? Firearms trafficking?
I think guns would be one of the hardest areas for them to use a national "emergency" although I could certainly see it used to give the CDC a lot of funding to do "research" and pump out anti-gun propaganda. Climate change & the environment is where they seem to have easier targets.
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I think guns would be one of the hardest areas for them to use a national "emergency" although I could certainly see it used to give the CDC a lot of funding to do "research" and pump out anti-gun propaganda. Climate change & the environment is where they seem to have easier targets.
Agreed.
Perhaps they would crack down on illegals passing background checks... :rofl:
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(https://cdn.ricochet.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/FB_IMG_15503300281725627.jpg)
I have no idea if the above is correct, but huge if true! (Buzzfeed can do it; so can I).
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So I guess the new "wall bad" dem talking point is that everyone South of our border is indigenous to this side of the border and can just show up? How far South? Mexico, or all the way down to Chile? How far North are they considered indigenous? Just the Southern border states or all the way to Canada?
https://twitchy.com/brettt-3136/2019/02/19/kirsten-gillibrand-opposes-border-wall-that-would-cut-off-indigenous-people-from-the-united-states/
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Are we going to have to conquer the Indians and whip the Mexican Army again? ???
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A wall isn't going to work, you can always go around a wall. Trains and trucks cross the border everyday, once this wall is established there are going to be a lot more dead bodies in truck trailers and train cars.
If you have to go around the wall, then clearly the wall is working. Yeah; trains and trucks cross the border, at controlled points of entry.
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If you have to go around the wall, then clearly the wall is working. Yeah; trains and trucks cross the border, at controlled points of entry.
Not every load is inspected or every train stopped. How about a real cure and not another bandage.
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Not every load is inspected or every train stopped. How about a real cure and not another bandage.
Well yeah. You can't stop it 100%. But when has that ever been the goal?
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Well yeah. You can't stop it 100%. But when has that ever been the goal?
Nreds to be, going painfully after every employer who hires illegal aliens would be way more effective than any wall.
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Nreds to be, going painfully after every employer who hires illegal aliens would be way more effective than any wall.
Why would we settle for anything less than both?
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Why would we settle for anything less than both?
...because we all know neither is going to happen.
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Nreds to be, going painfully after every employer who hires illegal aliens would be way more effective than any wall.
We could start by not penalizing them for trying NOT to hire illegals.
(YOU CAN'T CHECK IF THEY ARE LEGAL UNTIL YOU'VE HIRED THEM! is quite possibly the most pernicious law we have.)
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We could start by not penalizing them for trying NOT to hire illegals.
(YOU CAN'T CHECK IF THEY ARE LEGAL UNTIL YOU'VE HIRED THEM! is quite possibly the most pernicious law we have.)
Could make a pre employment e-verify system, where citizens and visa holders are given a different number from ssn. This number has to be on all job applications, that way employers can check via a .gov website before even starting the interview/hiring process. Hell even drivers license # would work.
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Could make a pre employment e-verify system, where citizens and visa holders are given a different number from ssn. This number has to be on all job applications, that way employers can check via a .gov website before even starting the interview/hiring process. Hell even drivers license # would work.
Does that prevent identity theft or shared ID numbers?
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Does that prevent identity theft or shared ID numbers?
Does anything? Hire date, state issued ID better match your likeness and address/dob