Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ned Hamford on June 21, 2019, 07:04:04 PM
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One of my staff broke down sobbing today and informed me of a family drama. His mom had worked a low paying job for the last few years and some wealthier cousins offered her a job as nanny/house cleaner for better; as it beats the costs of day care by large margin for multiple kids. After 3 weeks of 60 hours a week, she got tired of evasions and wanted her pay.
'What, you expect to be paid?!?'
Now there is a little war between the family about it. I've no idea how dire the circumstances are, but what a terrible situation. I don't know why the nerve and shamelessness of some people still surprises me.
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I get to use twice in the same day....
Hail Satan !!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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One of my staff broke down sobbing today and informed me of a family drama. His mom had worked a low paying job for the last few years and some wealthier cousins offered her a job as nanny/house cleaner for better; as it beats the costs of day care by large margin for multiple kids. After 3 weeks of 60 hours a week, she got tired of evasions and wanted her pay.
'What, you expect to be paid?!?'
Now there is a little war between the family about it. I've no idea how dire the circumstances are, but what a terrible situation. I don't know why the nerve and shamelessness of some people still surprises me.
Sounds like she needs a lawyer.
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Sounds like she needs a lawyer.
The lawyer will probably cost more than the back pay.
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One of my staff broke down sobbing today and informed me of a family drama. His mom had worked a low paying job for the last few years and some wealthier cousins offered her a job as nanny/house cleaner for better; as it beats the costs of day care by large margin for multiple kids. After 3 weeks of 60 hours a week, she got tired of evasions and wanted her pay.
'What, you expect to be paid?!?'
Now there is a little war between the family about it. I've no idea how dire the circumstances are, but what a terrible situation. I don't know why the nerve and shamelessness of some people still surprises me.
Wow, and here I thought I had to go over to reddit to read r/entitledparents stories.
Sounds the mom slaving away for family for free needs to walk away very quickly.
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The son should go break some kneecaps.
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When it comes to family and money, get it writing.
Did she not already know they were cheap bastards?
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After 3 weeks of 60 hours a week, she got tired of evasions and wanted her pay.
'What, you expect to be paid?!?'
Doesn't jibe. They were evading it for three weeks and then act surprised?
"Get it in writing" or clearly arranged beforehand.
I sure feel sorry for the guy's mom.
Terry
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The son should go break some kneecaps.
Agreed. The son needs to grow some balls, stop sobbing and pay them a visit.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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offered her a job as nanny/house cleaner for better
This implies that a wage was discussed. Or did he mean to imply a better quality of life?
Anyway, I would at least reach out to the DOL for that state to file a wage claim.
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This implies that a wage was discussed. . . .
Sounds like it to me.
From the OP:
His mom had worked a low paying job for the last few years and some wealthier cousins offered her a job as nanny/house cleaner for better;
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The son should go break some kneecaps.
Nah.
Just wait until the cheapskates are out of town and give away their furniture ...
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Nah.
Just wait until the cheapskates are out of town and give away their furniture ...
Or their children ...
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At best I can envision the husband and wife not having coordinated and then the non promising party setting the policy. But, no, horrible people do horrible things.
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Question for Ned and other legal beagles: Could she put a mechanic's lien against the house? >:D (or the children)
She could also call Judge Judy (etc) TV arbitrators love this kind of stuff, and not only might she recover the lost wages but she subjects her cousin to public ridicule.
I still like the kneecaps solution, or the Dept of Labor.
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Question for Ned and other legal beagles: Could she put a mechanic's lien against the house? >:D (or the children)
She could also call Judge Judy (etc) TV arbitrators love this kind of stuff, and not only might she recover the lost wages but she subjects her cousin to public ridicule.
I still like the kneecaps solution, or the Dept of Labor.
Judge Judy (and all those television "court" shows) are not courts at all. They are arbitrations, and both parties have to agree to go on the show.
I vote for the Department of Labor.
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So...
What's the attorney of record doing about it?
Ned, looking at you...
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So...
What's the attorney of record doing about it?
Ned, looking at you...
Not being asked for action; nothing. Asked about contracts and NY employment law, I did a fair bit of explaining and did convey the DOL as perhaps the best bang for the buck; with small claims being a fine option if some text or other recorded medium messages making the occurrence somewhat clear could be produced. This would be great for Judge Judy or some like court show; but I don't think they'd let their villainy be aired. That is why sociopaths attack and undermine those they've wronged; to control the more public perception of their image.
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So then you have done something. You provided an initial consultation instead of just telling the guy "well, sucks to be your Mom, get your ass back to work." :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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What about the mechanic's lien? Any way to make that applicable? (probably not)
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What about the mechanic's lien? Any way to make that applicable? (probably not)
Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty certain that a mechanic's lien applies to the physical property, not the owners of the property. In order to qualify for a mechanic's lien, you have to have performed actual work on the physical property.
Department of labor is the obvious best choice, IMHO. This is not unprecedented in New York State. There was a case in recent memory on Long Island, I believe, in which a couple lured a young woman to the U.S. from some place like Egypt and then essentially imprisoned and enslaved her. She eventually escaped and the so-called employers were tried, convicted, and (I think) imprisoned. I think the NY Department of Labor would be very sympathetic to the woman.
All I could find with a search was this story, which was in California. This may be the one I was thinking of, but I'm fairly certain there was a similar case in New York more recently. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/700207384/Former-child-maid-from-Egypt-becomes-US-citizen.html
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Not a lawyer, but I'm pretty certain that a mechanic's lien applies to the physical property, not the owners of the property. In order to qualify for a mechanic's lien, you have to have performed actual work on the physical property.
Department of labor is the obvious best choice, IMHO. This is not unprecedented in New York State. There was a case in recent memory on Long Island, I believe, in which a couple lured a young woman to the U.S. from some place like Egypt and then essentially imprisoned and enslaved her. She eventually escaped and the so-called employers were tried, convicted, and (I think) imprisoned. I think the NY Department of Labor would be very sympathetic to the woman.
She did maintain the property. I doubt that's enough; would have to be contracted to make actual repairs or improvements. But I don't think it would cost more than a trivial filing fee to try... The cousins probably have no intentions of selling their house anytime soon, but it should really get under their skin to know that they *can't* sell it without paying her off first.
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She did maintain the property. I doubt that's enough; would have to be contracted to make actual repairs or improvements.
^^^ This.
But I don't think it would cost more than a trivial filing fee to try... The cousins probably have no intentions of selling their house anytime soon, but it should really get under their skin to know that they *can't* sell it without paying her off first.
If the woman has no money, no filing fee is trivial. It's outside the realm of a mechanic's lien, so it would be a waste of time and resources even if Ned were willing to prepare the suit pro bono. And judges don't look kindly on lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits, so IMHO it would be foolish of Ned to attach his name to it.
[Note: I am not saying that the woman's situation is frivolous. But filing a lawsuit when you know the law doesn't apply is frivolous.]
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^^^ This.
If the woman has no money, no filing fee is trivial. It's outside the realm of a mechanic's lien, so it would be a waste of time and resources even if Ned were willing to prepare the suit pro bono. And judges don't look kindly on lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits, so IMHO it would be foolish of Ned to attach his name to it.
[Note: I am not saying that the woman's situation is frivolous. But filing a lawsuit when you know the law doesn't apply is frivolous.]
I didn't know if it applied or not; that's why I was asking. And I didn't think a lawsuit was involved, just file the lien at the county courthouse and pay the $20 filing fee (or whatever it is), which the son could cover. But like I said, I could be totally wrong. Just wanted to throw the idea out there in case maybe it was applicable and nobody had thought of it.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanic%27s_lien
Creation and perfection
Under the statutes, the lien is usually created by the performance of labor or the supplying of material that improves the property. Just what type of contribution counts as a valid basis for a mechanics lien varies, depending on the particular state statute that applies. Some common examples are:
laborers, carpenters, electricians, mechanical/HVAC contractors and plumbers working on the project site;
lumber yards, plumbing supply houses and electrical suppliers;
architects and civil engineers who drew up the construction plans and specifications; and
offsite fabricators of specialty items that are ultimately incorporated into the project.
Often, there is no simple dividing line that is useful in every state, or even in every case, for determining this eligibility. Deciding whether a party has a legitimate lien right may depend on examining court cases that have either upheld or rejected lien claims in the same state.
Unlike other security interests, in most states, mechanic's liens are given to contractors and material suppliers who may or may not have a direct contractual agreement with the owner of the land. In fact, this is often the norm because in most cases, the owner of the land contracts only with a general contractor (often called a "prime contractor"). The general contractor, in turn, hires subcontractors ("subs") and material suppliers ("suppliers") to perform the work. These subs and suppliers are entitled to liens on the owner's property to secure their payment from the general contractor.
However, to have an enforceable lien, it usually must be "perfected." This means that the holder of the lien must comply with the statutory requirements for maintaining and enforcing the lien. These requirements, which contain time limits, are generally as follows:
Providing the required preliminary notice to the property owner disclosing the entitlement to the lien (some states).
Filing notices of commencement of work (some states).
Filing notices in the required public records offices of the intention to file a lien if unpaid (some states).
Filing the notice or claim of lien in the required public records offices within a specified period of time after the materials have been supplied or the work completed (all states). The law varies from state-to-state on both the triggering event and the timing of this. Some states require the filing within a period measured from the time when the claimant completes its work, while others specify the event as being after all work on the project has been completed. The filing time periods after the triggering event vary.
Because of the difficulty often associated with the filing of mechanics liens and compliance with mechanics lien laws, many lienors use attorneys or mechanics lien filing services to ensure that their mechanics lien is filed correctly.
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Dept of Labor gets her paid now. Mechanic's Lien (even if applicable) she may not get paid for years.
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Dept of Labor gets her paid now. Mechanic's Lien (even if applicable) she may not get paid for years.
Or never. Many years ago I had an electrical contractor on a project who told me that he held mechanic's liens on a couple of public schools in a town up-state because they had stiffed him on fees for work performed. All a mechanic's lien does is prevent the property from being sold unless/until the lien has been cleared. If the owners don't plan to sell, the lien is worth the paper it's printed on. Maybe.
[It's curious how the mind works. That project was 38 years ago and I haven't thought about it since then. As soon as I started to type the story, the contractor's name, Mario Bernabi, popped into my head.]
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Yep, the only time a lien has to be satisfied is when the property is either sold or, in some states, refinanced.
My HOA (OH GOD, THE EVIL HORRORS!) has filed liens against properties in our community when the owners get into significant arrears on fees owed to us. Every few months the attorney's office updates the lien to account for any additional fees, penalties, costs, etc.
Prior to that we had taken owners to court -- what a damned joke that was.
OK, HOA officer, you're saying that Owner X owes $5,000 in monthly assessments and hasn't paid in X years? OK, we find Owner X owes his HOA $1,000. Next case.
Yep, RARELY would courts in this area award the amount the owner actually owed. Any attorney's fees, interest, or penalties? Those were summarily tossed out no matter what, leaving everyone else in the HOA to foot that bill PLUS the monthly assessments that Owner X was excused from paying.
And, inevitably, Owner X would pay the court ordered money and then start the entire process all over again.
Liens, on the other hand? You get everything.
We had one notorious owner, basically a slumlord. She and her husband owned 3 properties in the community. Never maintained them, rarely, if ever, paid the assessments (which were NOT expensive, something like $60 a month at the time).
So, we automated the lien process. Hit X amount in arrears, it gets turned over to the attorney who files a lien for that amount PLUS interest PLUS penalties PLUS attorney fees. And every quarterly lien update brings a new round of fees.
Well, slumlady decides to either refinance or sell one of the properties, and the lien on it is rather substantial, in excess of $10,000 at that point. Despite getting quarterly updates on the status of the amount she owned, she professed to have no knowledge of it and was incensed at the concept of having to pay that money. Came to a board meeting and blew her stack. We very politely told her to go pound sand, that she knew what she owed because she got the regular account statements, and if she wasn't reading them, that was her problem, not ours.
Few weeks later, we got not only the pay off for the property that she was refinancing, we got the arrears on the other properties, too. And since then, as far as I know, she's not been an issue at all.
She was trying to game the system and she realized that the lien process made it impossible for her to win.
Liens are powerful tools.
In fact, liens were one of the preferred tools that the Montana Freemen nuts used to harass the crap out of their opponents, and it worked for awhile.