Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on June 30, 2019, 06:40:29 PM
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I thought this was interesting, because coincidentally, I've been noticing some pretty crappy truck driving on the roads. The last couple of years I've been doing a lot of interstate driving, and I've been cussing a lot on the road. I've noticed a big uptick in semi drivers that wander into my lane or otherwise drive poorly.
Just a few years ago, you would have seen me giving a tip of the hat to semi drivers for being skilled enough to do things like remain in the narrow freeway lanes while transiting through (and maneuvering in) LA or similar big cities. I attributed the big increase in crappy driving to the trucker shortage and figured they were just pulling schmucks off the street, being "lenient" shall we say, in their training and testing, and sending them on the road.
Though perhaps there is some correlation between the driver shortage, lowered test standards, and both a lower class of individual who is prone to do drugs, and good drivers being overloaded with work and resorting to drugs to keep driving.
https://www.freightwaves.com/news/carrier-drug-survey-reveals-need-to-purge-300000-drivers?_lrsc=e4bf7d93-70b7-44cd-afa8-08771cabf225&utm_source=linkedin&utm_medium=elevate&src=linkedin-elevate&employee=271755&content=1090723&topic=5627
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You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
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Cellphones and laptops man
They’re distracted driving.
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Most are also getting paid by the mile. That's a big problem, especially in more heavily-trafficked areas.
When I was active in a Jeep club I had a CB radio in my Cherokee all the time, and it was habit to turn it on when I was on a highway. (In fact, I still have it, and I just dragged it out because next week I'll be taking a 600-mile road trip and I want my radio.) I'm one of those lunatics who think the best way to avoid a speeding ticket is to not speed, so I routinely cruise in the granny lane with the cruise control set at one or two MPH above the posted limit (to adjust for known speedometer error). I've listened to truckers behind me telling other truckers "[they're] going to run that little blue Cherokee off the road if he doesn't get out of my way."
In Colorado a number of years ago, with my wife in the car beside me, I had a semi deliberately try to run me off the road.
They want miles, because for them miles=$$$. That right there is a recipe for disaster.
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I get to observe some of the drivers that drop off or pick up loads at our distribution center. The whole "Knights of the Road" mythos is long dead.
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I've seen plenty of examples of semi drivers creating moving roadblocks on freeways, purposely blocking zipper merges by straddling the dotted line, or swerving over lanes/shoulders to know well enough to stay as far away from semis as possible.
Yes, people doing stupid or illegal things in cars or motorcycles vastly outnumber the semis, but these aren't professional drivers running 100,000 lb rigs.
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"professional" truck drivers are almost so universally, abysmally bad from what i've seen the past several years, that i sometimes catch myself applauding the nearing of the day when automation renders the job obsolete.
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"professional" truck drivers are almost so universally, abysmally bad from what i've seen the past several years, that i sometimes catch myself applauding the nearing of the day when automation renders the job obsolete.
I've been thinking the same thing. Even if we switched to 100% automated semis with current technology and infrastructure, I bet safety would immediately improve.
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"professional" truck drivers are almost so universally, abysmally bad from what i've seen the past several years, that i sometimes catch myself applauding the nearing of the day when automation renders the job obsolete.
I have a friend who learned to be a truck driver. He had a few accidents his first couple of months. While he said it was the other drivers' fault, I question that. (Of course, the accident while backing he had to admit was his fault.)
Nonetheless after being let go by the trucking company, he was readily hired by the local bus service.
So, however bad you think the existing truck drivers are, the buses are likely worse.
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FWIW, from what I've seen from city bus drivers, they are much more courteous than most other people on the road.
Then there is stuff like this: not sure if it was drugs or mechanical failure... but I think air brakes failures fail to the braking position.
https://www.wisn.com/article/video-shows-mcts-bus-crash-into-marquette-university-building/20720931
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Most are also getting paid by the mile. That's a big problem, especially in more heavily-trafficked areas.
They want miles, because for them miles=$$$. That right there is a recipe for disaster.
Back when I was still prosecuting criminal and traffic cases, the truckers I came into contact with were being paid $X amount to get a load from Point A to Point B. The price remained the same no matter how long it took. So, the truckers were actually making less money per hour as time passed. Now, when I worked a few safety breaks with Scouts and other organizations, and talked to some OTR truck drivers, they were pretty much universally exhausted. They didn't sleep a full night when they were working. They would nap an hour or so, and lived on nicotine and caffeine. Probably more than that, but they didn't discuss those things with volunteers at a rest area. Most I talked to ran round trips, either for a trucking company or as an independent hauler, arranging loads in each direction.
Either way, I agree with Hawk... It is a recipe for disaster.
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Back when I was still prosecuting criminal and traffic cases, the truckers I came into contact with were being paid $X amount to get a load from Point A to Point B. The price remained the same no matter how long it took.
Might be a regional thing -- I've never heard of that method of calculating pay.
https://www.truckdriverssalary.com/western-express-pay-scale/
How Does Western Express Pay Compare to the Competition?
Western Express claims to offer some of the highest pay in the industry to their flatbed drivers, but is that claim true?
Let’s see how the company compares to some of the top names in the trucking industry.
Swift Trucking
Swift is a top name in the trucking industry, and for good reason.
Based on information from current and former drivers, it looks like the company pays between $0.25 and $0.41 per mile, depending on your experience level and location.
Western Express pays $0.40 for practical miles – no matter your experience level.
J.B. Hunt
Like Swift, J.B. Hunt pay rates depend on your experience level and location, but experience is the bigger factor here.
Many beginners say they earn between $0.35 and $0.44 per mile, which is about on par or slightly higher than Western Express.
Hunt also offers monthly performance bonuses and weekly pay.
Con-Way Freight
Like Western Express, Con-Way Freight has boosted its pay to experience drivers and now offers better incentives.
Experienced drivers who are newly hired at Con-Way will earn $0.45 per mile. Layover pay was also boosted to $75 per day, and an annual bonus of 1.5-3 cents will be paid on the total miles driven over the last year.
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Search "Swift driver" on YouTube. (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Swift+driver+fail)
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Might be a regional thing -- I've never heard of that method of calculating pay.
https://www.truckdriverssalary.com/western-express-pay-scale/
I wonder if any of those companies are running speed limiters?
I had a 40 mile stretch of freeway to drive yesterday both ways, where the speed limit was 70, yet most of the semis were running at 60-65 mph.... I'm not sure that a company is going to get the best drivers if they are paid by the mile, and they lose a a couple of dollars/hr because of speed limiters.
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It's like a dumpster fire except with out the dumpster
https://www.newson6.com/story/40717132/injury-crash-causes-explosion-at-i44-and-highway-169-in-tulsa (https://www.newson6.com/story/40717132/injury-crash-causes-explosion-at-i44-and-highway-169-in-tulsa)
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I wonder if any of those companies are running speed limiters?
I had a 40 mile stretch of freeway to drive yesterday both ways, where the speed limit was 70, yet most of the semis were running at 60-65 mph.... I'm not sure that a company is going to get the best drivers if they are paid by the mile, and they lose a a couple of dollars/hr because of speed limiters.
I'm pretty certain that one of the big trucking companies -- J.B. Hunt or Schneider -- has governors on their trucks. Probably a number of them do.
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Search "Swift driver" on YouTube. (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Swift+driver+fail)
I love watching skilled professionals doing their thing, don't you?
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Then there is stuff like this: not sure if it was drugs or mechanical failure... but I think air brakes failures fail to the braking position.
https://www.wisn.com/article/video-shows-mcts-bus-crash-into-marquette-university-building/20720931
Air pressure loss down to a certain level (typically 20-40 psi) will result in automatic application of the parking brake, bringing the vehicle to a quick stop. (Smoother than I'm sure you're imagining.)
In cases like the video above, my first thought is Bigfoot got his foot on the brake and the accelerator at the same time, panicked when the vehicle wouldn't stop, and pressed harder making the situation worse.
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MOST, probably ALL modern braking systems, in proper working order, can overpower the engine. In other words, you can choke out/down a run-away engine using the brakes. If my old Turbocharged Pinto could do it, and DID when the throttle got hung during a race once, that bus could as well. Air brakes use air to RELEASE the brakes and a massive spring in the air chamber to APPLY the brakes.
:old:
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MOST, probably ALL modern braking systems, in proper working order, can overpower the engine.
Sure. But in the case of one foot being applied to two pedals, the pedal with the shortest "throw" will result in more effect than the other. Put a left foot on the brake and a right foot on the throttle, push as hard as necessary on each individually and you'll probably win with the brake. Also depends on the driver understanding what is going on and knowing to favor the brake, or reposition his foot entirely.
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Even though I retired at the end of 2017, I got my commercial license (again) and am currently employed as a semi driver. As a sort-of knowledgeable person, please bear with me...
The current laws (rules?) state that a driver covering more than 150 (non-agricultural products) miles must log his/her hours. Electronic logs are preferred and “Smokey” may give you grief if you use a paper logbook.
Shifts can be no more than 14 hours. 11 of those may be at the wheel. After 8 hours on duty, you must take a 30- minute break. After 14 hours, you must take 10 contiguous hours off. You can have only 70 hours of time before a 34-hour “reset”, whereupon everything starts over.
Electronic logs are a bitch. You can’t cheat. The truck reports to a server, which communicates with your device - iPad, smartphone, etc. If the truck moves >5 mph, you’re “driving”, like it or not. I’ve had to creep around in granny gear to weigh out after unloading, so as to remain on “ break”. It’s a pain.
I underwent a random drug & alcohol screening last week; doping is mostly myth, I think.
Look at a rest stop or truck stop along the freeway when you’re traveling, especially at night. You’ll see dozens of rigs lined up, with their drivers taking mandatory stops.
Jon
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I've been driving a big truck for 6 years too long now and would have weighed in earlier except I hate phone posting.
Most trucks are indeed governed to somewhere in the 62-70mph range. Insurance companies give breaks for governed trucks, including independents. The governor in modern trucks is a setting in the software so the engine just quits pulling at the designated speed on level ground. Downhill, the truck will go as fast as gravity and the drivers daring allows.
Most carriers pay using cents-per-mile as the calculation. However the driver is also told what the mileage on the load is determined to be using a couple of different programs that calculate the distance between the originating zip codes and the destination zip. So really the driver is being told indirectly that the load pays him so much to do. Of more importance to a driver is the timing. Not only is he expected to be On-Time come hell or high water, being late can result in fines to the carrier and also result in the driver losing the next load and potentially waiting days for free for the carrier to find another one.
As mentioned, OTR drivers are legally required to use daily logs with e-logs being mandated for everybody this year. Local drivers may not have to use logs but a lot do anyway. A driver has 4 clocks, the 30-minute break within 8 hours, the 11-hour driving, and the 14 hour On-Duty clock, plus the 70 hour-in-8-days clock, all of which start counting down the instant the driver goes on-duty. So drivers hear the constant TIK-TOK in their heads as they try to get everything done they need to in a day.
Another thing, Due to the relatively poor pay, stress, isolation, and other factors the vast majority of drivers quit in the first three months and most of the remainder don't make it past the first year. What this means is that there's a very good chance that every truck around you on the freeway is being driven by somebody with less than a year's experience and probably less than 3 months. Further since tucking no longer pays well it doesn't draw from the middle class like it used to, it draws from the poor who tend not to have the social graces that were once more common and why you see these 500 pound slobs in flops, sweats, and stained t-shirt waddling around the truck stops and shippers.
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Another thing, Due to the relatively poor pay,
Sorry to snip your post down to a sentence fragment, but that actually surprised me. All I hear in the news is stuff about the trucker shortage and how someone could make really good money. As in, the news makes it sound like salaries are on the increase, but it appears they are not, or on the decline?
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Oh, yes, you *can* make good money as a driver. You won’t see much of home and family, though. You’re going to be sleeping in the truck many nights, rather than in your own bed.
We have guys making around $90k hauling hogs, but they bust their asses at it. I’m an old, retired guy, drawing a pension, so don’t hit it that hard. I’m a “utility “ driver, hauling all sorts of stuff (spreading gravel on township roads, right now), and am mostly in it for the insurance, though I’m about to go on Medicare. Mrs. B. will be covered under the group.
And as mentioned, truck speeds are set by the owners’ shop. Mine has the cruise control max out at 70, and a top speed of 80. Others we have only go to 65, since they’re short-haul or farm trucks.
JB
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We're seeing more and more drivers that are obviously from countries with "stan" tagged on the end. Flooding the market with those types has to be a contributing factor to generally bad driving and driving down the average. Not that there aren't plenty of lousy American truck drivers out there.
Good old jingle trucks. [barf]
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Sorry to snip your post down to a sentence fragment, but that actually surprised me. All I hear in the news is stuff about the trucker shortage and how someone could make really good money. As in, the news makes it sound like salaries are on the increase, but it appears they are not, or on the decline?
No problem. That sort of thing doesn't bother me like it apparently does some people.
The only shortage of drivers are those willing to work for what amounts to lunch money. Freight isn't sitting on the docks because there isn't a truck available and $1/mile loads are still a thing (it takes about $1.75/mile to operate a truck.)
And yes, driver pay has increased considerably since 2013 when I started but it's still not even close to what it was in the 90's let alone '70's or 80's when adjusted for inflation. I only still drive because I'm tied to a location where the only jobs amount to Wal-Mart level stuff. Even then the Wal-Mart jobs are looking better every day. Especially when Safety calls to bitch about some minutia the (driver-facing) DriveCam recorded (We noticed you only allowed 6 flashes of the signal before switching lanes and we believe it should be no less than 7 so we're denying you Safety Bonus this month. Yes, we know that car cut you off for no reason but you should have expected that and left more room for him to do so, so we're denying...)