Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 21, 2007, 10:11:40 AM
Well, the one flight we did was fun at least. We misunderestimated the 30 MPH winds, and while the launch was flawless, the recovery was less so.
We think someone near the school baseball field we launched in how has our interpid space craft on their roof. Chasing a tiny parachuting rocket body up a road and then finally losing it was too much to bear, so we secured flight operations for the day. We'll try again this weekend.
I could see myself spending entirely too much money on this hobby. Any of you people fly model rockets?
Post by: jnojr on February 21, 2007, 10:15:12 AM
I see people launching them on Fiesta Island all the time. They launch at a pretty steep angle into the wind, so when the engine burns out and pops the 'chute, it'll drift back towards them
Post by: 280plus on February 21, 2007, 10:16:50 AM
Now I feel like I'm a bit too old to go off chasing them into never never land.
Besides, you folks already got me thinking about buying a yo yo. I'll limit the second childhood to that.
Post by: cosine on February 21, 2007, 10:17:42 AM
Post by: 280plus on February 21, 2007, 10:19:20 AM
Post by: mfree on February 21, 2007, 10:28:59 AM
Anyways,
http://posterboard.tv/rocketry/bigrocket01.png
http://posterboard.tv/rocketry/bigrocket02.png
http://posterboard.tv/rocketry/bigrocket03.png
http://posterboard.tv/rocketry/bigrocket04.png
To re-iterate what was lost... huge rocketeer in high school, miss it daily. The photos are of my best creation, 10-11 foot long, 3 D12 engines, less than five pounds. Launched beautifully; crashed horribly due to a hung-up parachute.
By the time I was out of high school I'd completed and flown 50-60 models, too many to really count. Most of them were homemade designs as well, I think after numbers ten or eleven I stopped buying kits and started buying parts packs.
Post by: charby on February 21, 2007, 10:29:10 AM
I was at Hobby Lobby a few weeks ago and was looking at the model section, another hobby that I used to be big into, at started looking at the Estes rocket stuff, I did notice that the price of engines haven't gone up much in 15 years and there was an "E" engine.
If it could justify to myself the cost of getting started again I might revist the hobby.
-C
Post by: 280plus on February 21, 2007, 10:30:55 AM
Post by: mfree on February 21, 2007, 10:36:09 AM
But, I chose to make my home in a city-filled VALLEY surrounded by MOUNTAINS. Nowhere to play! *grumble*.
Post by: cosine on February 21, 2007, 10:46:35 AM
Too...many...hobbies......must ...resist.....
Get the yo-yo. You'll have fun with it.
You know, there's this little matter of never having enough money for all the hobbies I want to try...
Post by: mfree on February 21, 2007, 11:09:41 AM
You can roll kraft (butcher) paper and dope it for body tubes, chuck a block of wood in a drill press and sand it into a nose cone... fins don't *have* to be balsa, I've used solid cardboard before. Your pad can be just a length of straight rod (like a scrap auto antenna) with the bottom of a tin can for a deflector. Yeah, it'll burn through... so? Make another. Ignition system? Just hold your wires to a lantern battery for a few seconds.
Engines are still less than ten bucks a pack, right?
Post by: roo_ster on February 21, 2007, 12:28:23 PM
One hint: parachutes are for launching big rockets, fragile payloads, or guys who want to lose thier rocket.
Use a streamer next time.
Oh, I loved the rocket that had pop-out wings when it was finished climbing. It workd the first two times. The last time, only ONE wing popped out. The term "auger in" became reality that day.
I also experimented with funky payloads & got some of my plastic model planes airborne.
Post by: cosine on February 21, 2007, 12:35:13 PM
Rocketry, really, can be a cheap hobby. The only things you can't make for yourself are the engine and ignitors.
You can roll kraft (butcher) paper and dope it for body tubes, chuck a block of wood in a drill press and sand it into a nose cone... fins don't *have* to be balsa, I've used solid cardboard before. Your pad can be just a length of straight rod (like a scrap auto antenna) with the bottom of a tin can for a deflector. Yeah, it'll burn through... so? Make another. Ignition system? Just hold your wires to a lantern battery for a few seconds.
Engines are still less than ten bucks a pack, right?
You can roll kraft (butcher) paper and dope it for body tubes, chuck a block of wood in a drill press and sand it into a nose cone... fins don't *have* to be balsa, I've used solid cardboard before. Your pad can be just a length of straight rod (like a scrap auto antenna) with the bottom of a tin can for a deflector. Yeah, it'll burn through... so? Make another. Ignition system? Just hold your wires to a lantern battery for a few seconds.
Engines are still less than ten bucks a pack, right?
Interesting. I may try it "on the cheap" this summer.
How small can you build rockets? What are th smallest engines you can use? How much land do you need to launch the rockets?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 21, 2007, 12:45:58 PM
I used to.
I see people launching them on Fiesta Island all the time. They launch at a pretty steep angle into the wind, so when the engine burns out and pops the 'chute, it'll drift back towards them
We wanted to launch there, but you need to be a member of a specific club, or contact the city for a damned permit.
I see people launching them on Fiesta Island all the time. They launch at a pretty steep angle into the wind, so when the engine burns out and pops the 'chute, it'll drift back towards them
Post by: charby on February 21, 2007, 12:46:14 PM
Rocketry, really, can be a cheap hobby. The only things you can't make for yourself are the engine and ignitors.
You can roll kraft (butcher) paper and dope it for body tubes, chuck a block of wood in a drill press and sand it into a nose cone... fins don't *have* to be balsa, I've used solid cardboard before. Your pad can be just a length of straight rod (like a scrap auto antenna) with the bottom of a tin can for a deflector. Yeah, it'll burn through... so? Make another. Ignition system? Just hold your wires to a lantern battery for a few seconds.
Engines are still less than ten bucks a pack, right?
You can roll kraft (butcher) paper and dope it for body tubes, chuck a block of wood in a drill press and sand it into a nose cone... fins don't *have* to be balsa, I've used solid cardboard before. Your pad can be just a length of straight rod (like a scrap auto antenna) with the bottom of a tin can for a deflector. Yeah, it'll burn through... so? Make another. Ignition system? Just hold your wires to a lantern battery for a few seconds.
Engines are still less than ten bucks a pack, right?
Interesting. I may try it "on the cheap" this summer.
How small can you build rockets? What are th smallest engines you can use? How much land do you need to launch the rockets?
I could shoot A or B sized engines in a baseball diamond and depending upon the wind my rocket would land inside the park. You'll need to angle your launch rod into the wind and shoot from the side of the diamond that is into the direction of the wind. If I could figure that out at 12 years of age, you'll do fine.
-C
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 21, 2007, 12:47:35 PM
Too...many...hobbies......must ...resist.....
The Estes Alpha III Kit is less than 25 bucks, and includes everything you need. Do it.
Post by: charby on February 21, 2007, 12:52:04 PM
Too...many...hobbies......must ...resist.....
The Estes Alpha III Kit is less than 25 bucks, and includes everything you need. Do it. That was my first kit, I think my folks paid $18 for it back in 1986
here is a link to one for under $20
https://www.discountrocketry.com/estes-alpha-rocket-starter-p-555.html?osCsid=a4923f5bfd8e757c8ef2cc1bd0e61553
-C
Post by: crt360 on February 21, 2007, 01:03:31 PM
Did anyone ever use one of those rockets with the camera in it? If so, did it work?
Post by: Ben on February 21, 2007, 01:05:19 PM
Was actually looking at playing around with them again -- but the bigger ones (especially after wathcing the Reliant space shuttle from the other thread). When I was a kid, it was a fun hobby for both me and my dog -- she used to bring the rockets back to me after they landed. Luckily she was a soft-mouthed retriever.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 21, 2007, 01:08:42 PM
My mother took 'em away from me after she discovered I was modifying my engines into improvised explosive devises...
Post by: onions! on February 21, 2007, 01:13:17 PM
Heck of alot more noticeable than just that dinky flag!
Post by: MechAg94 on February 21, 2007, 01:23:46 PM
Post by: mfree on February 21, 2007, 01:38:37 PM
Two are notable... well, two other than the monster I showed previously. One was a superlight, super-compact D powered model that shredded with a bang a ways before it would have hit burnout. I'd exceeded VNE
Apparently you can only fly balsa and mylar so fast...The other was a two-stage powered with long-burn C engines. Very sleek and optimized for drag. Optical measurements put it at 3400' and even with streamer recovery it drifted out of our area.
As for the small stuff, I remember that there are 1/4A and 1/2A engines out there for rockets that aren't much bigger than a 50 ring cigar. There is, or used to be, a model out there that is not much more than one of those small engines, a nose cone, and three swept fins. On the eject charge it just blows the engine out and the CG change is enough to make it tumble down, like a leaf.
Believe it or not a lot of the bigger single D models were suitable for small fields; they're so big and draggy they won't hit a thousand feet.
Post by: crt360 on February 21, 2007, 01:41:49 PM
I remember launching a smaller rocket with a larger engine on an overcast day with low clouds. The little rocket disappeared in the clouds and we never saw it again. We were out in a pasture had plenty of room for recovery normally.
That sounds exactly like what I did several times. I even had one disappear on a clear day.
Post by: Sylvilagus Aquaticus on February 21, 2007, 01:51:57 PM
I have a cousin who threw a fit wanting to launch his Very First Rocket one stifling summer day down near San Antonio. Daddy releted finally and he started a 200 acre grass fire. He's still a brat at 30.
Regards,
Rabbit.
Post by: cordex on February 21, 2007, 02:03:33 PM
Now I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that all the instruction manuals for payload rockets specify that no living things except maybe insects be used as payloads. One time I was out on the farm with someone who launched a rocket with a live, non-insect payload. Yuri the mouse didn't seem to particularly enjoy his trip, but he survived. The first launch.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on February 21, 2007, 02:19:56 PM
I tended to prefer small (well, smallish...
) payloads of black powder wrapped up in tissue paper. Swap out the parachute for the powder, and when the engine fires its charge to eject the 'chute you get a real nice poof and a big cloud of smoke. I found that the key to a good kaboom was to glue down the nose cone after loading in the black powder, otherwise most of the powder was ejected out the top of the rocket before igniting.
Post by: Ben on February 21, 2007, 02:22:17 PM
Quote
Wasn't there a model specifically designed for carrying a mouse or a gerbil up and back down safely?
I heard that one was a favorite of Richard Gere.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on February 21, 2007, 02:27:50 PM
C-engine, electrical igniters
PVC pipe launch tube, foam shoulder rest and rudimentary aluminum sights, with 9V battery and electronic push-button ignition with alligator-clipped foil-armored wiring.
I'm Mr. Bad Example...
Post by: mfree on February 21, 2007, 02:31:37 PM
Yup
let's make sure that...ah.... doesn't actually happen. Honestly though, I've witnessed several CATOs* with Estes engines. I wouldn't trust them for that work, lest what I was holding go off whilst holding...
*CATO: Catastrophe At Take Off. More than likely cracked grains, pressure rise... BOOM, confetti. or in one case, enough to split the engine case and jsut burst into flames on the pad.
Post by: 280plus on February 21, 2007, 02:36:10 PM
Too...many...hobbies......must ...resist.....
The Estes Alpha III Kit is less than 25 bucks, and includes everything you need. Do it. 
Post by: charby on February 21, 2007, 03:01:16 PM
I satisfy my pyro urges by being charge of the 4th of July fireworks where I live, I'm on year 3 and no one is kicking me off. It cool I get to drool over all sorts of catalogs, I have a ATF license to purchase and display and someone else pays for it.
no "E" engine can match a 8" shell that you hand light.For the other times of the year I'm saving up for a Mountain Howitzer so I tell myself that everytime I walk by the Estes in the hobby stores.
-C
Post by: Strings on February 21, 2007, 03:37:03 PM
Post by: Maser on February 21, 2007, 03:45:40 PM
Post by: 280plus on February 21, 2007, 03:55:04 PM
Quote
280- Exactly
I know cause that's how my gun collection got started. I was just going to buy the one... I just tallied and from one I'm now at 15 with an initial layout totaling ~ $8000
But it's been a while now since I bought one ...
Post by: charby on February 21, 2007, 04:57:11 PM
Quote
280- Exactly
I know cause that's how my gun collection got started. I was just going to buy the one... I just tallied and from one I'm now at 15 with an initial layout totaling ~ $8000
But it's been a while now since I bought one ...
I'm 32 years old and I have 17 firearms
hopefully a soon a 12 lb cannon to join it.
Post by: RocketMan on February 21, 2007, 07:57:43 PM
IIRC, if you're willing to get a LEUP and go for your Tripoli cert, there are engines and classes much, much bigger than E. Composite propellant motors go up to K size commercially, and those folks get to play with carbon fiber, kevlar, altitude keyed electronic ejection, all manner of neat stuff.
But, I chose to make my home in a city-filled VALLEY surrounded by MOUNTAINS. Nowhere to play! *grumble*.
But, I chose to make my home in a city-filled VALLEY surrounded by MOUNTAINS. Nowhere to play! *grumble*.
Actually, commercial composite motors are available in the 'N' range for Level 3 flyers.
Both Tripoli and the NAR offer certifications up to Level 3 that are recognized by both organizations.
Post by: RocketMan on February 21, 2007, 08:02:20 PM
Interesting. I may try it "on the cheap" this summer.
How small can you build rockets? What are th smallest engines you can use? How much land do you need to launch the rockets?
There used to be a company that made micro rockets, but I have forgotten their name. They were essentially downscaled Estes rockets with tiny black powder engines. Pretty cool gadgets. You could fly them in your back yard.
I don't know if they are still around.
Post by: RocketMan on February 21, 2007, 08:05:31 PM
I'm sure I've still got a launchpad or two and some engines packed away somewhere. What's the shelf life of rocket engines? I might have to slap together a rocket and light up a few.
Did anyone ever use one of those rockets with the camera in it? If so, did it work?
Did anyone ever use one of those rockets with the camera in it? If so, did it work?
<------- Mine is bigger than yours! <neener>
The shelf life of a black powder engine is measured in years. As long as they have not been exposed to temperature extremes, frozen, or dropped, they should still be usable.
The camera rockets worked well when properly flown. I've seen a lot of pictures from them over the years.
Post by: RocketMan on February 21, 2007, 08:14:00 PM
Crunched it pretty good the last time I flew it, though. It's awaiting a rebuild.
Post by: HankB on February 22, 2007, 03:29:16 AM
In high school, some of us almost got into it again. A buddy had bought himself a Valiant Dart (One side said Dodge Dart, the other said Plymouth Valiant. He bought the car brand new . . . ) with a six cylinder engine. There was SO much space under the hood with that itty bitty motor in a big engine compartment, we figured we could fit in a couple of launching rails, hinge a section of the grille, and outfit his car to fire rockets out the front like James Bond.
He agreed, too . . . but once he was through with the beer we'd been drinking, the next morning he changed his mind.
Post by: Bob F. on February 22, 2007, 04:26:09 AM
Bob
Post by: Ben on February 22, 2007, 05:16:27 AM
Quote
speaker wire with alligator clips and Ford Bronco with the hood up for a launch system.
That's too funny -- it's exactly (right down to the Bronco) what I used to use instead of the weak little AA battery launch controller.
Post by: charby on February 22, 2007, 06:04:20 AM
-C
Post by: AmbulanceDriver on February 22, 2007, 06:26:08 AM
Unfortunately, I realized just how fast I could burn money running a 2 stage E rocket.
But DAMN did that thing fly.
Scratch build, too. Light as possible, balsa, cardboard, and plastic nosecone.
You had to be quick to be able to track it. I'll need to see if I can find a relatively cheap, lightweight altimeter unit to stick in it.
Post by: Fly320s on February 22, 2007, 06:39:33 AM
You know, a nice red or yellow smoke trail to make tracking easier. Or maybe design it so that the smoke generator starts when the 'chute/streamer pops.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 22, 2007, 06:44:06 AM
Post by: mfree on February 22, 2007, 09:54:37 AM
i.e. a C5-3 engine waits three seconds after burnout before the eject charge hits.
While in delay, it's burning a squib charge that makes a white plume for tracking.
Post by: crt360 on February 22, 2007, 11:25:07 AM
<------- Mine is bigger than yours! <neener>
Now that's a rocket!
The biggest one I ever made was only about 3ft tall with two stages. Most were much smaller.
Post by: French G. on February 25, 2007, 05:41:59 PM
Duct tape+D motor+old hunting arrows+angle iron launcher=medevial rain somewhere past your property line.
I should take up that hobby agian considering my current abode has an excellent vantage point and lots of clear space.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on February 25, 2007, 05:47:06 PM
The Alpha three kit had one flawless flight, and one stuck in a tree but recovered flight.
The Estes highflyer kit...well that one went up about 50 feet, then nosed over and drove into the ground under power.
Post by: RocketMan on February 25, 2007, 06:55:52 PM
Dad and I did three more launches yesterday.
The Alpha three kit had one flawless flight, and one stuck in a tree but recovered flight.
The Estes highflyer kit...well that one went up about 50 feet, then nosed over and drove into the ground under power.
The Alpha three kit had one flawless flight, and one stuck in a tree but recovered flight.
The Estes highflyer kit...well that one went up about 50 feet, then nosed over and drove into the ground under power.
Ah, well. The more you fly, the more you crunch. All part of the fun.
I bend more of my small ones than the big ones, for some reason. It's easier on the wallet that way, though.
I often modify the smaller rockets using techniques learned building the big ones. Five minute epoxy instead of white glue; kevlar or nylon shock cords instead of the stock Estes rubber bands; nylon chutes instead of plastic; beefed up fins and motor mounts, etc.
Upscaling a small Estes rocket to fly on larger motors is fun, too. It requires some back-of-the-envelope calculations to scale up the various part sizes correctly. I cheat, though, and use computer software to model the flight characteristics of the final version before its first flight.
I enjoy scratch building rockets to fly on D motors, buying parts from various vendors. I used to fly stuff on A through C motors with the kids when they were younger. Even though I have a Level 2 high power certification, the small stuff can be just as fun to fly as the big, high power rockets.
Post by: DustinD on February 27, 2007, 10:58:21 AM
You could also try cooking up your own propellant to save money. "Rocket candy" should work just fine for the smaller ones.
Post by: Silver Bullet on March 06, 2007, 05:26:44 AM
The Estes rockets typically top out at about 600 feet, as I recall. Some models will exceed that.
I like Aerotech:
http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/
Download the PDF catalog by clicking Products.
Their rockets are much bigger (e.g., 1.5 inches diameter, 4 to 6 feet long) and fly much higher (1000-2000-3000 feet). And, you can get engines that emit different colors smoke to aid in tracking.
Everything (launcher, rockets, engines) are maybe 6 to 10 times as expensive as Estes, though.
Post by: charby on March 06, 2007, 06:17:47 AM
Estes rockets are a lotta fun for a very cheap price. It's also something that kids really enjoy. And, if you go to a designated rocket launch area, you can have fun watching other people launching their rockets.
The Estes rockets typically top out at about 600 feet, as I recall. Some models will exceed that.
I like Aerotech:
http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/
Download the PDF catalog by clicking Products.
Their rockets are much bigger (e.g., 1.5 inches diameter, 4 to 6 feet long) and fly much higher (1000-2000-3000 feet). And, you can get engines that emit different colors smoke to aid in tracking.
Everything (launcher, rockets, engines) are maybe 6 to 10 times as expensive as Estes, though.
The Estes rockets typically top out at about 600 feet, as I recall. Some models will exceed that.
I like Aerotech:
http://www.aerotech-rocketry.com/
Download the PDF catalog by clicking Products.
Their rockets are much bigger (e.g., 1.5 inches diameter, 4 to 6 feet long) and fly much higher (1000-2000-3000 feet). And, you can get engines that emit different colors smoke to aid in tracking.
Everything (launcher, rockets, engines) are maybe 6 to 10 times as expensive as Estes, though.
I need to be strong and not look at that link again.
Post by: Silver Bullet on March 06, 2007, 06:03:56 PM
Quote
I need to be strong and not look at that link again.
DustinD: Great web site ! I hadn't seen that one before, and I did a lot of searching about nine months ago.
Apogee. Note the presence of the Aspire model, which is only $17.58, but will fly 5280 feet (1 mile !) . Id think the badge of honor for that model is, how many times did you fly the same rocket and still find it ? Maybe one hashmark on the fin for each 1 mile flight.
http://www.apogeerockets.com/
http://www.discountrocketry.com/
I find these reviews somewhat interesting, but they tend to be very descriptive with little editorial commentary, and they tend to be very similar from model to model. ( I built the rocket; good instructions ! I flew the rocket; it flew straight off the launcher ! The rocket came down; the parachute worked !
)http://www.rocketreviews.com/
Post by: RocketMan on March 07, 2007, 08:28:57 PM
Try LOC/Precision at http://www.locprecision.com/. A reputable manufacturer of mid- and high power rocket kits and supplies.
Giant Leap Rocketry at http://www.giantleaprocketry.com/hpdefault.asp. A reputable dealer of rocket kits and parts.
Fliskits, another manufacturer of model rockets, at http://fliskits.com/
This reliable rocket company has a great name, "Public Missles". http://www.publicmissiles.com/
Another good rocket making outfit, based in Oregon: http://binderdesign.com/
Cesaroni Technology at http://www.pro38.com/. Another good high power motor manufacturer.
If you are in the Pacific Northwest try http://www.oregonrocketry.com/. It is an Oregon-based rocket club. Very well known in this neck of the woods.
The two main national rocketry organizations:
The National Association of Rocketry at http://www.nar.org/
The Tripoli Rocketry Association at http://www.tripoli.org/
Post by: RioShooter on March 08, 2007, 04:28:20 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on March 08, 2007, 09:41:17 AM
Post by: cosine on March 08, 2007, 09:43:09 AM
I'm planning a few launches this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.
Do you think you could take some pics to share? Pretty please?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on March 08, 2007, 09:46:53 AM
Post by: Bob F. on March 12, 2007, 11:39:09 AM
Dug out the only rocket left: An R2-D2 kit my sis or daughter gave son & I a few years back. Seems it's always windy here, especially when he visits. Coupons enclosed expired in 2000 if that tells ya' anything.
Put it together in about 30 minutes, didn't have any spare AA batteries around so dug out the old 1/2" alum plate with speaker wires. (see prev post), popped the hood on the F-150 and after a few tries finally got it to fire. Didn't get the altitude "normal" rockets would get w/ a C engine and actually angled into the wind a bit. Hit maybe 100feet. Misjudged the "high-altitude" wind a little and she snagged the trees at the edge of the woods but was recovered intact.
Looked at one of the local Wal-Marts and the have NO engines on display and only the mini-rockets. Guess I'll have to stock up next time I see some. Hate to do mail-order but when you live in the boonies........
Post by: Bob F. on March 12, 2007, 11:45:44 AM
<br /><br />See what happens, not posted pics here before.
</dd>
<dt class=)
Title: Re: Model RocketsPost by: Bob F. on March 12, 2007, 11:48:09 AM
<br /><img src=)
Post by: Bob F. on March 12, 2007, 11:49:41 AM
Post by: Bob F. on March 12, 2007, 11:51:53 AM
On the pad (with alum plate and wiring under the Estes launch pad).
I KNEW I could do it!
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on March 12, 2007, 12:00:12 PM
Oh, I added an Estes Big Bertha to my fleet.
Post by: cosine on March 12, 2007, 06:55:44 PM
Post by: brimic on March 14, 2007, 01:28:21 PM
Post by: Bob F. on March 14, 2007, 03:02:51 PM
Bob
Post by: ECB on March 16, 2007, 06:06:51 AM
Post by: mfree on March 16, 2007, 07:32:15 AM
Post by: RocketMan on March 16, 2007, 06:58:59 PM
DHS and BATFE(ces) got the big smackdown over that, AFAIK.
Not quite yet, but we're working on it. More to come in the case later this year.