Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: dogmush on January 05, 2020, 09:53:56 AM
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It's trending on a bunch of sites but my work computer blocks most of them. The Iraq Parliament just held a vote and voted to withdraw the request for assistance from coalition forces, and remove foreign troops from Iraq.
So far I haven't seen the US response.
Should be an interesting week.
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BBC
Not much yet but the link should be updated as they find out more.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50998065
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Would it be optimistic for me to think that we, one of the largest oil producers in the world, might use this as an opportunity to say FU to the ME and maybe start a real pullout that leaves them all to war amongst themselves?
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What choice do we have? Time to go. Almost seems too easy.
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Wait a minute. Who are we against this week? Are we for someone new now?
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Civil war then Saddam ][ within the year.
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Civil war then Saddam ][ within the year.
I agree, it won't be as bad as Libya but it won't be that far behind either.
bob
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Wait a minute. Who are we against this week? Are we for someone new now?
Well, that's part of the problem, isn't it? New aholes pop up every week and we have to decide if they're aholes we want to be allies with or enemies with.
There are no good leaders anywhere in the ME in the "Apple pie good guy" American sense. Only aholes that it's sometimes beneficial for us to work with. They all commit what we consider atrocities against their own people (or those factions of their people they've been disagreeing with for the last few thousand years).
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Well, that's part of the problem, isn't it? New aholes pop up every week and we have to decide if they're aholes we want to be allies with or enemies with.
There are no good leaders anywhere in the ME in the "Apple pie good guy" American sense. Only aholes that it's sometimes beneficial for us to work with. They all commit what we consider atrocities against their own people (or those factions of their people they've been disagreeing with for the last few thousand years).
We keep playing Whack-A-Mole and the moles keep coming. Eventually your arm gets tired.
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Yup, time for us to pull out. We also need to leave nothing we built to support our presence, nothing but ashes in our wake.
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BBC
Not much yet but the link should be updated as they find out more.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50998065
They updated the article
The non-binding resolution was passed by the Iraqi parliament after the caretaker Prime Minister, Adel Abdul Mahdi, called for an end to the foreign military presence in a speech to MPs.
Non-bindlng implies something just for show to me.
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Yup, time for us to pull out. We also need to leave nothing we built to support our presence, nothing but ashes in our wake.
If pass history is any guide we'll leave billions of dollars worth of stuff that will soon be found in all corners of the world and will get used against us by someone somewhere.
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If pass history is any guide we'll leave billions of dollars worth of stuff that will soon be found in all corners of the world and will get used against us by someone somewhere.
You're probably right. I'll say that RKL had the right idea a few posts up - leave nothing useful behind.
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If pass history is any guide we'll leave billions of dollars worth of stuff that will soon be found in all corners of the world and will get used against us by someone somewhere.
And somebody probably will become rich facilitating the ones who end up with all the new toys.
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They updated the article
Non-bindlng implies something just for show to me.
My understanding of the Iraqi Governmental workings is shaky at best, but, from what I gather, it is non-binding until the Prime Minister signs it. Once you have the act of Parliament, signed by the Prime Minister, the government is obligated to act on it.
Points to remember:
This Prime Minister is a "caretaker" because he resigned in November over protests that he, and this government, were puppets of Iran.
I'm reading reports that the parliament did reach a quorum, but also that no Sunni or Kurdish MP's showed up. How this plays out on the "will of the Iraqi people" narrative remains to be seen.
If we actually start making concrete preparations to leave, the various militia groups are likely to start killing each other sooner rather than later. This could also effect the narrative.
If this goes through and we start to withdraw we are likely to find out exactly how much operational control the Iranians have over the militias. Politically seeing us out of Iraq is a win for them, but it's not what the various fighters mean when they vow revenge. They want blood. If Iran can't keep them under control, this could still get kinetic.
To RKL's and WLJ's comments, if we follow the plan we did in withdrawal from northern Syria, we won't leave much of anything useful behind. We pretty much leveled those bases on the way out.
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Yup, time for us to pull out. We also need to leave nothing we built to support our presence, nothing but ashes in our wake.
Perhaps we should leave agricultural salt behind in the few productive fields there...
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To RKL's and WLJ's comments, if we follow the plan we did in withdrawal from northern Syria, we won't leave much of anything useful behind. We pretty much leveled those bases on the way out.
That's encouraging to know.
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Perhaps we should leave agricultural salt behind in the few productive fields there...
Legend has it that Rome found it worked in preventing future problems with a longtime enemy . . .
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Some 5,000 US soldiers are in Iraq as part of the international coalition against the Islamic State (IS) group.
We don't really have that many troops in Iraq itself. I would be curious what our total is in the ME outside Afghanistan.
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You know, NO one has addressed this issue... the US, the Iraqis, etc...
What was this guy doing in Baghdad? In Iraq? Which tacitly a US ally?
It seems as if he was there pretty openly.
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You know, NO one has addressed this issue... the US, the Iraqis, etc...
What was this guy doing in Baghdad? In Iraq? Which tacitly a US ally?
It seems as if he was there pretty openly.
I don't know about his original plans, but it appears that he is now attending a wake.
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Or what's left of him. Apparently they had to tentatively ID him from a ring he wore and follow it up with DNA testing.
Was it a Hellfire? About 20lb of HE? Probably hamburglarized the automobile's contents.
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You know, NO one has addressed this issue... the US, the Iraqis, etc...
What was this guy doing in Baghdad? In Iraq? Which tacitly a US ally?
It seems as if he was there pretty openly.
Kind of like bin Laden in Pakistan . . . except a bit less discreet.
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I don't know about his original plans, but it appears that he is now attending a wake.
:laugh:
Politics aside, couldn't happen to a nicer guy.
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You know, NO one has addressed this issue... the US, the Iraqis, etc...
What was this guy doing in Baghdad? In Iraq? Which tacitly a US ally?
It seems as if he was there pretty openly.
He has openly been in Iraq, like many Iranian government folk, for the entirety of the war and post war. Iran and Iraq have public and official links.
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I've decided that every political philosophy has its own utopia. They are all completely unattainable and usually end up with a lot of dead people.
Relevant to this is the libertarian utopia where we bring every troop home and ignore the world. While I wouldn't have minded a break during my time on Team America, here's the deal. Nature abhors a vacuum. If we pack up our smart bombs and go home somebody else is going to run the world. Dutch, British, Portuguese, Spanish, Japan, Germany have all had a go. Next up is obviously China. Better for us to keep our finger in the pie and make things suit us. We've been a pretty benign empire post WWII. WW I & II got so bad precisely because we stuck our heads in the sand.
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He has openly been in Iraq, like many Iranian government folk, for the entirety of the war and post war. Iran and Iraq have public and official links.
Do tell us how the revolutionary guard feels about this.
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You know, NO one has addressed this issue... the US, the Iraqis, etc...
What was this guy doing in Baghdad? In Iraq? Which tacitly a US ally?
It seems as if he was there pretty openly.
He was in Baghdad on a stop to meet his SMG commanders. He was traveling from Riyadh to Tehran (by way of Lebanon or Syria). Supposedly he was in KSA to receive the Saudi response to a proposal to lower Gulf tensions after the Saudi Oilfield explodyness of last year. He is an interesting choice for Tehran to send on that mission, since it was probably his troops that launched that particular operation. There's some subtext there.
Which begs the question (also not really being talked about) of how exactly the US knew who was on that plane and in that car. If someone were cynical, or knew anything about mid-east politics, one might read the Saudi response into that particular piece of intel leaking to the US.
We don't really have that many troops in Iraq itself. I would be curious what our total is in the ME outside Afghanistan.
US CENTCOM has between 60,000 and 70,000 troops on ground in theater*. USFOR-A (US FORces- Afghanistan) has about 14,000 troops in country. So figure between 45,000 and 55,000 troops in the Mideast, outside of Afghanistan. Those numbers are +/- a couple thousand, but are pretty close.
*Before we deployed the Ready Brigade out of Bragg. So add 4000(ish) this week.
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I got the impression from things I saw that we have had opportunities to hit this guy before, but past administrations either didn't have him as a target or didn't want to risk the Iranian response.
Thanks for the information. That is a lot of people in the area. Also fewer in Afghanistan than I thought.
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The occupation of Iraq is over from what I have read.
We will be pulling out.
That's huuge.
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sLTG Abdul Amir
Deputy Director, Combined Joint Operations Baghdad Iraq - Ministry of Defense
Your Excellency,
Sir, in due deference to the sovereignty of the Republic of Iraq, and as requested by the Iraqi Parliament and the Prime Minister, CJTF-OIR will be repositioning forces over the course of the coming days and weeks to prepare for onward movement.
In order to conduct this task, Coalition Forces are required to take certain measures to ensure that the movement out of Iraq is conducted in a safe and efficient manner.
During this time, there will be an increase in helicopter travel in and around the International Zone (IZ) of Baghdad. This increased traffic will include CH47, VH-00, and AH-64 security escort helicopters.
Coalition Forces will take appropriate measures to minimize and mitigate the disturbance to the public. In addition, we will conduct these operations during hours of darkness to help alleviate any perception that we may be bringing more Coalition Forces into the IZ.
As we begin implementing this next phase of operations, I wish to reiterate the value of our friendship and partnership. We respect your sovereign decision to order our departure.
Very Respectfully,
WILLIAM H. SEELY III
Brigadier General, U.S. Marine Corps
Commanding General, TF-Iraq
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They're saying it was a draft letter that was mistakenly released. Sounds like somebody is going to be scapegoated or get a pretty crappy performance eval.
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That's what I get for believing fake news Reuters 😁
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The occupation of Iraq is over from what I have read.
We will be pulling out.
That's huuge.
IF we pull out (and that's a big IF), remember we already pulled out once before. It didn't stick.
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IF we pull out (and that's a big IF), remember we already pulled out once before. It didn't stick.
If our metric for pulling out is Iraqi Sunni and Shia Muslims getting along and playing nice we may never get out of there.
Trump understands "sunk costs".
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If our metric for pulling out is Iraqi Sunni and Shia Muslims getting along and playing nice we may never get out of there.
Trump understands "sunk costs".
This. Our best option would be to light the fire on another Sunni/Shia war, step back and both us and Russia could sell them arms.
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IF we pull out (and that's a big IF), remember we already pulled out once before. It didn't stick.
At this point, it is only 5000 troops and they would likely go right back if something happened.
I would like to see if they have plans to get out of the Middle East.
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Now the script is flipped.
They want us out Trump says no.
More troops sent to Iraq.
Time is running out for Trump, those of us who want out of Middle East wars and occupation are getting antsy.
So far Trump has talked a good game but results are the only thing that count.
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Give Iraq back to the British.
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Give Iraq back to the British.
They are too smart to take it. Plus, their gun and knife bans probably wouldn't work there.