Post by: Tecumseh on March 20, 2007, 07:12:02 PM
I am just shocked at some of these people. While I am going to concede that many people probably knew the answers it is just shameful that some people think Utah is a country on its own. Or that people want to invade a country they never heard of.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 20, 2007, 08:08:06 PM
But I think there are a few things to keep in mind when you see those stupid people. First of all, they're not showing you the intelligent and well-spoken people they interviewed. They're only interested in the dumb ones. That's not dishonest - they're not claiming to be taking a scientific poll. It's understood they're doing this for entertainment purposes.
Then keep in mind these people are not nearly so dumb as they look - they're just nervous. Nervous people say stupid things and can't remember countries that start with U.
Post by: LadySmith on March 20, 2007, 09:58:46 PM
Post by: Sindawe on March 20, 2007, 10:54:20 PM
Quote
I am just shocked at some of these people.
I'm not. Dismayed, yes. It has been my sad experience that the majority of folks in the nation are like unto those poor sots being made fun of in this video. As a people we have become dumbed down and dirt ignorant of events, facts and the world outside of our daily lives. The people we encounter on forums such as APS and its kindred are the exception rather than the rule. It is not for lack of ability though, but rather for lack of guidance in the formative years of a persons intellectual development. Only a few can be a Stephen Hawking of the cerebral arts, but many can be a Jack LaLanne of those arts if they but put the effort into it.
But that requires a measure of effort and dedication, and HEY! Brittany is on CNN flashing her goodies!!!! Gots to go!
Post by: Manedwolf on March 20, 2007, 11:52:36 PM
Post by: zahc on March 21, 2007, 02:22:13 AM
Quote
jumpcuts, speedup cuts, dumbed-down repetition of small words, and grinding metal-guitar soundtracks.
People think I should have cable because they think I would like the discovery, science, and history channels. Instead I find them like fingernails on a chalkboard due to phenomena like you listed. I seem to remember the programming on the Millitary channel being noninsultingly constructed, but there's only so much of that you can watch.
Read a book.
Post by: El Tejon on March 21, 2007, 02:22:51 AM
The Teacher Unions can hold their heads up high for grinding out such morons.
Post by: mtnbkr on March 21, 2007, 02:34:53 AM
Chris
Post by: El Tejon on March 21, 2007, 03:03:58 AM
If your fellow citizen is a moron, hold the teachers and their feckless unions responsible.
It's no secret that the teacher unions are out destroy education in this country. Mission accomplished.
Post by: HankB on March 21, 2007, 04:26:13 AM
1. Many of them vote, and their vote counts for just as much as yours.
2. Others run for office . . . and get elected.
Post by: mtnbkr on March 21, 2007, 05:42:18 AM
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If your fellow citizen is a moron, hold the teachers and their feckless unions responsible.
It's no secret that the teacher unions are out destroy education in this country. Mission accomplished.
If your fellow citizen is a moron, hold the teachers and their feckless unions responsible.
It's no secret that the teacher unions are out destroy education in this country. Mission accomplished.
I'll also thank my parents who bought me lots of books and encouraged learning outside of the classroom.
I have yet to see a "moron" who's parents were interested in learning. I've seen plenty of folks who had scholarly parents, but poor teachers who maintained a life of self-education.
I don't dispute that there's a problem with the education system, but education starts at home. Otherwise, we're wasting our time with our 3yo. Maybe we should spend our time watching American Idol instead...
Chris
Post by: Manedwolf on March 21, 2007, 06:02:38 AM
If you can read this, thank a teacher.
If your fellow citizen is a moron, hold the teachers and their feckless unions responsible.
It's no secret that the teacher unions are out destroy education in this country. Mission accomplished.
If your fellow citizen is a moron, hold the teachers and their feckless unions responsible.
It's no secret that the teacher unions are out destroy education in this country. Mission accomplished.
I'll also thank my parents who bought me lots of books and encouraged learning outside of the classroom.
I have yet to see a "moron" who's parents were interested in learning. I've seen plenty of folks who had scholarly parents, but poor teachers who maintained a life of self-education.
I don't dispute that there's a problem with the education system, but education starts at home. Otherwise, we're wasting our time with our 3yo. Maybe we should spend our time watching American Idol instead...
Chris
Go in most people's houses. You won't find classics, or engineering texts, or art books, or literature of any sort around for the kids to discover as they start reading.
You'll find a couple issues of celebrity rags, maybe a dumbed-down "suspense thriller" or two and some atrociously written scandal/romance/angst novels.
Is it any wonder what sort of kids come out of those homes?
One of the first "grownup" books I found at about age 3 or 4 was one called "How Does It Work? : a Practical and Entertaining Guide to the Workings of Everyday Things From Air Conditioners to Zippers" ...and therein learned how the fireplace flue worked and drew, how an air conditioner worked, what a cam was, and many other things.
Even before I could understand all the words, I was fascinated by it. Then later, I found everything from Shakespeare to Larry Niven around on shelves and such, and read them all.
Makes quite a difference.
Post by: trapperready on March 21, 2007, 06:06:44 AM
Coincidence? I think not. I firmly believe that parents' attitudes and efforts are the single most important factor in their kids' education.
Post by: mtnbkr on March 21, 2007, 06:19:33 AM
Quote from: trapperready
Recently, he and a few of his classmates were identified as being advanced in math and are now participating in a pull-out program with the school's "gifted" teacher. After the first session, he came home and told me who was in the program with him. Without exception, all of the kids who are "advanced" are also the kids whose parents do the vast majority of volunteering in the classroom.
I got pulled into one of those programs in elementary school as well. I was working with computers and even learning BASIC by the 6th grade (1984ish). My parents weren't very active with the school (both worked full time jobs), but I had all the books I wanted to read, educational toys such as electronics kits, telescopes, etc, and plenty of support. We always had National Geographic (books and magazines), encyclopedias, books of all types, etc.I had a mix of good and bad teachers throughout my public school "career", but I credit my parents with my drive to learn.
Chris
Post by: Art Eatman on March 21, 2007, 06:27:12 AM
Yup. Well-known. The incentive to learn comes from the home. And, of course, the "stick to it" part of the perceived drudgery of homework. Plus the inculcation of the concept of goals, both short- and long-term.
For me, with my grandfather being a school principal in Austin, even the teachers were on my case. If I didn't do well on a test or during a six-weeks period, I got hammered with, "What would your grandfather think?"
Art
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 21, 2007, 06:50:34 AM
Post by: K Frame on March 21, 2007, 06:53:53 AM
Heavens no!
Americans aren't stupid for the simple reason that most Americans would have to RISE above their current level to achieve mere stupidity.
Post by: mtnbkr on March 21, 2007, 07:05:27 AM
While I will agree with 90% of what everyone says on here there is still some people just cannot learn. My son and daughter both have the same oppurtunities and guidance from the wife and I, however, my son seems to get things easier and quicker than my daughter. She struggles and no matter how hard she tries there are some things that she just does not get.
That's a different issue. We're talking about willful ignorance.
Chris
Post by: BrokenPaw on March 21, 2007, 08:12:04 AM
While I will agree with 90% of what everyone says on here there is still some people just cannot learn. My son and daughter both have the same oppurtunities and guidance from the wife and I, however, my son seems to get things easier and quicker than my daughter. She struggles and no matter how hard she tries there are some things that she just does not get.
That's a different issue. We're talking about willful ignorance.
BTW, I was in the GT program in Fairfax County when I was in third-sixth grade, and you and I are almost exactly the same age; did you go to grade school in this area?
-BP
Post by: mtnbkr on March 21, 2007, 08:23:39 AM
Chris
Post by: Laurent du Var on March 21, 2007, 08:38:41 AM
To demonstrate ones lack of general education while pointing with a camera is just
intentionally misleading the spectators and it works in every country not just in the US.
My wife and my dad are teachers and it seems that the good students are getting brighter and fewer while the rest is getting dumb and dumber without ever acknowledging it and this for the last twenty years meaning that we are confronted with already the second generation of those blank looks when talking about anything at all.
Before bad students would look at the teacher when confronted with bad grades thinking why would I learn that, I don't need this. Now they come with their parents
and think it together
Personally I look for the books in ones livingroom and take it from there...
If only we could put five questions which would tell that a voting person can understand the consequences of his going to the ballots...
Post by: Lee on March 21, 2007, 03:23:35 PM
Post by: zahc on March 21, 2007, 05:50:20 PM
Quote
Ya ever notice that as a person's ignorance increases, so does their conviction that they are right? It explains a lot about political and religious trends, past and present.
Very wise words.
If I blame my parents for anything, it's for not pushing me. I could have been learning calculus when I was 10. If I even have a kid, I'm going to surround them with material. My parents never did that. It's a good thing I did on my own, but I have so much catching up to do.
Post by: drewtam on March 21, 2007, 05:59:35 PM
I firmly believe that parents' attitudes and efforts are the single most important factor in their kids' education.
That has been my experience and conviction as well. I spent 2yrs in a expensive, deserved reputation, private school, and 2yrs at a public "wrong side of town" HS. I found the public school to have equivalent resources (labs etc), equally excited teachers (public HS teacher got my interested in science), and equal opportunity at excelling (AP History, Chem, Calculus).
Yet, the kids at the privates school, on the average, outperformed the public school kids. 'Cause the public attendees had poor teacher resources? NO! Its because of the attitudes at home. An unforntunate percentage of kids at the public school just didn't care- because nobody else cared either.
Drew
Post by: drewtam on March 21, 2007, 06:03:45 PM
If we're so stupid, then why are we so rich?
We didn't become world leaders 'cause we're a bunch of slack jawed yokels. Our free market system rewards the wise, the rest are moved out of the way. Even the unlucky in our system get second chances and don't stay down long (1-2yrs).
Drew
Post by: MechAg94 on March 21, 2007, 06:38:24 PM
I guess we also have a fairly stable economic system and decent rule of law so investment is encouraged rather than discouraged.
Post by: gunsmith on March 21, 2007, 11:25:23 PM
It is universal
Post by: mfree on March 22, 2007, 06:49:12 AM
*even then, intelligence and education aren't mutually exclusive.
Post by: Perd Hapley on March 22, 2007, 07:05:31 AM
Post by: wmenorr67 on March 22, 2007, 07:08:22 AM
I'm surprised no one has blamed me yet.
No fistful it is Bush's fault.
Post by: BrokenPaw on March 22, 2007, 07:32:11 AM
Half the people out there are of below average intelligence*.
*even then, intelligence and education aren't mutually exclusive.
I would say that it's probably more than half, mfree.*even then, intelligence and education aren't mutually exclusive.
That is, if by "average", you are referring to the mean.
As an aside, intelligence is over-rated. Intelligence is merely the ability to collect, categorize, and analyze information. Wisdom is the ability to understand what that information means.
In my experience, a wise person of low or average intelligence is far less dangerous to himself and others than an unwise person of high intelligence.
It's the difference between knowing that you can do something, versus knowing whether you should.
-BP
Post by: Manedwolf on March 22, 2007, 08:37:00 AM
Half the people out there are of below average intelligence*.
*even then, intelligence and education aren't mutually exclusive.
I would say that it's probably more than half, mfree.*even then, intelligence and education aren't mutually exclusive.
That is, if by "average", you are referring to the mean.
As an aside, intelligence is over-rated. Intelligence is merely the ability to collect, categorize, and analyze information. Wisdom is the ability to understand what that information means.
In my experience, a wise person of low or average intelligence is far less dangerous to himself and others than an unwise person of high intelligence.
It's the difference between knowing that you can do something, versus knowing whether you should.
-BP
Well, I wouldn't say that, exactly. Intelligence can also be the ability to see a problem and come up with a solution quickly. In a lot of situations, that does require the ability to reason, do mathematical operations, and visualize the complex interaction of factors to come up with that solution. An intelligent person will "think quickly", moreso than a so-called slow-witted sort. And yes, it is a survival skill.
Those who are more intelligent are also more able to read and understand the documents of their ancestors, thus learning history, rather than repeating it.
And finally, a more intelligent sort is more able to reason and change their mind when presented with a new set of facts...to absorb and quickly rethink their own position or rationale, rather than blindly denying and clinging to their previous position regardless of new information on changing situations.