Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Ben on October 06, 2021, 05:55:33 PM
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Have any of you ever installed foam board insulation on metal?
I've got this new conex box and I was thinking I might just line it with the 1" foam board for at least some minimal insulation before I start filling it with crap. I was first thinking about just holding the foam board up with furring strips, but I would have to find some long ass self-tapping screws to go through the furring, foam, and into the metal.
Then I read that a lot of guys just glue those boards up. That seems like a much easier solution. Any idea what a good glue would be to use? I wouldn't worry to much about the boards on the walls staying in place, but I'm concerned with the foam that would be glued to the ceiling holding up.
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They make a glue especially for the pink foam board. I would go 2" over 1" for a higher R value.
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Anyone in your area do spray foam? Foam board is nice, but the air space between board and CONEX shell can cause funky condensation issues.
Brad
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Anyone in your area do spray foam? Foam board is nice, but the air space between board and CONEX shell can cause funky condensation issues.
Brad
Hmm. The condensation is a consideration. I did find this video:
https://youtu.be/6-xPIgRLuBE
Doesn't seem too difficult to DIY. I guess I'd have to research cost comparisons.
On the other hand, it's just a conex, so it wouldn't need a perfect seal of insulation. I wonder if I left an inch at the top and bottom of the foam board if the airflow would be enough to circulate air and take care of condensation?
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If you're worried about condensation, you should look into using a spray or roll-on adhesive. Adheres the entire board to the wall with no air gap.
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I looked into a 2-part spray foam to insulate the rim joist of my Mom's house, especially under the kitchen, to cut down on air infiltration.
It was, 10 years ago, WAY too cost prohibitive.
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If you're worried about condensation, you should look into using a spray or roll-on adhesive. Adheres the entire board to the wall with no air gap.
There will be an air gap because the inside of a connex is corrugated.
At least in FL, we've had a lot of issues with condensation behind built in "walls" in connexs. Lots of units do what you are thinking about for their storage connexs, and it builds up behind the walls, rots the floors, and rusts out the bottom of the container.
If I wanted it to last, I'd throw something like this (https://tigerfoam.com/sprayfoaminsulation/order-products/spray-foam-kits/tiger-foam-slow-rise-formula-600-board-foot-kit/) at it. $700 isn't cheap, but it's a pretty good option. Ballpark spray foam is twice what foam board and glue cost.
Of course you have less humidity than FL.
But to answer the question you actually asked:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-DYNAGRIP-10-3-oz-Foamboard-Construction-Adhesive-12-Pack-7079827519/303017008#product-overview
That's the glue you want.
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"There will be an air gap because the inside of a connex is corrugated."
Well that's unfortunate.
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I'm continuing to look into it. The foam board would run me around $500, so two $350 spray-on kits wouldn't be that much more. While there is some prep involved (mostly for the ceiling), the spray-on doesn't look that much more time consuming than gluing foam board.
I'm more worried about heat than cold, and though it has only been one day, the way I placed the conex has only the west wall heating up. When I was in it yesterday afternoon, the West wall was quite warm, while the other walls and ceiling were cool. I'm wondering about just insulating that wall, or else even just putting some kind of reflective barrier or shade barrier on the outside of that wall.
Or what about spraying all the walls and hanging foam board like an inch below the ceiling with furring strips, and leaving gaps on either end? With air gaps for circulation, would I still need to worry about condensation there? As has been mentioned, this is a really dry climate.
I also saw they make a sort of foam board insulation that is molded specifically for corrugated conex walls, but it's a bit pricey.
In the end, I'm not looking at anything near "comfort" insulation. I'm only considering insulation to mitigate temperature extremes, like say, keeping it under 120 in July. Maybe an alternative is putting a cutoff wheel on the grinder and putting a couple of small vents into the walls? Or other ideas?
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Build a pergola over it?
My experience with storage connexes is in FL and hotter climates, and there's nothing short of putting AC in it that keeps it cool in those temps, but that's not really what you have.
I will say that in those hot climates we've always had better luck shading the connex with camo netting or something then insulating it. We were dealing with way more sun than ID has though.
If you decide to put something on the walls, the only other advice I can give you is don't use mechanical fasteners. If you put a screw in a connex wall it will start to rust in 2.8 secs.
A roof vent would allow hot air to escape, at the expense of the waterproof-ness of the box. Your call which is more important to you, but I think I'd rather not cut holes in my nice watertight box.
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Build a pergola over it?
That's really not a bad idea for what I want to get out of it. Or the camo netting since I already have the Gadsden flag flying. :laugh:
It might be a non-permanent "step one" to see how it will work. If I then really want to insulate, it's really not more than a couple of hours to temporarily empty out whatever I have in it by that time.
The box is also primer red right now. Maybe it could be a good painting project for me, to change it to a more heat reflective color. I've never done spray painting with a compressor before, and the conex could be a good first project where I don't care what it looks like if I screw up. They had some nice desert tan containers at the place, but they were the new ones that were cost prohibitive.
Anyway, looks like I have a few things to think about. =)
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They make a glue especially for the pink foam board. I would go 2" over 1" for a higher R value.
Charby's right. Foam board has a low 'R' value. It would be good to at least double up.
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The box is also primer red right now. Maybe it could be a good painting project for me, to change it to a more heat reflective color.
Chrome paint for the win. And passing aircraft can use it for a navigation aid.
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Chrome paint for the win. And passing aircraft can use it for a navigation aid.
Good idea. There are even better options in IR-reflective roof coatings, and they don't rub black off on everything after a few years like silvered paint can.
Pergola or covered area on the west side is a really good idea. Combination of extra covered storage and sun shading for the container wall.
Brad
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The responses got me thinking, and going in a direction other than I thought I would in the OP. It's coming on Winter now, so I don't even have to worry about heat for a good seven months. Nothing I store in it should be overly freeze sensitive, but I will monitor the temp over the Winter.
I think I am going with the cover/shade/painting option first. That is simple and easily removeable. If it doesn't work, I'll rethink the insulating.
You guys made a really good sounding board on this. Despite our differences in politics and stuff, this is what I really like about APS. I wouldn't have thought through this on my own. Thanks!
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OK, crazy thought... How about mounding dirt up and over it? Maybe partially dig it into a hill?
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OK, crazy thought... How about mounding dirt up and over it? Maybe partially dig it into a hill?
The walls and roof are not really all that structural (except for a few points) and can collapse when buried.
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The walls and roof are not really all that structural (except for a few points) and can collapse when buried.
A lot of people seem to bury them as apocalypse shelters. They must do some reinforcing then.
Even if I wanted to, this would not be the spot for it. I actually have a really good spot, hard to describe without a pic, that would be perfect for partial burial. Kind of a small hill/valley thing right next to the house where it would be easy to set it along the "hill" side, and then bury at least part of it. I have actually been looking at that area to create something like a root cellar and/or naturally temp controlled storage.
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OK, crazy thought... How about mounding dirt up and over it? Maybe partially dig it into a hill?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cdn.turner.com%2Fcnn%2F2011%2FUS%2F04%2F13%2Fwaco.koresh%2Fstory.koresh.gi.jpg&hash=00a94d97bbeface108436299bc58f5195fb199b0)
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A lot of people seem to bury them as apocalypse shelters. They must do some reinforcing then.
Some do reinforce them using a gabion cage or surrounding it with barrels filled with stone or dirt. Some people recommend welding on angle iron framing. Some just assume it's fine. By the time you get done reinforcing it much of the "cost savings" of burying a shipping container typically goes away.
Beyond structural support, corrosion also becomes a very big issue when buried.
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Beyond structural support, corrosion also becomes a very big issue when buried.
Yeah, as I was reading more about the insulation stuff, I was surprised about the condensation and corrosion problems. It's almost counterintuitive for something designed to protect goods on ocean voyages.
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Yeah, as I was reading more about the insulation stuff, I was surprised about the condensation and corrosion problems. It's almost counterintuitive for something designed to protect goods on ocean voyages.
A lot of people don't realize that in that role, connexs are semi disposable. 5-10 years, and they are pretty much shot and they are likely to get a repaint/refresh in there. so the economics of long term corrosion resistance aren't there.
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Burying one almost guarantees parts of the metal will stay wet/damp. Probably adds more corrosion mechanisms than keeping it off the ground and dry.
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Probably adds more corrosion mechanisms than keeping it off the ground and dry.
The place I bought mine from was pretty adamant about making sure I had some railroad ties to set mine on to keep it off the ground. Not just corrosion, but animal nesting as well.
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Ben - if you are considering painting this metal container, you might want to consider a "galvanized primer" as this would add some corrosion resistance. The silvery-gray color would also help reflect the sunlight and aid in keeping the container cooler.
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I used Sta-kool roof coating years ago in my tin roofed cabin. The difference in heat was insane.