Post by: Trisha on April 02, 2007, 07:20:48 PM
Understand, for most ordinary wrenching, everything short of pulling an engine of a transmission, I'm comfortably competent. But, I've never drilled out rivets from suspension components mounted to the frame, and there's the rub that has me with aching shoulders and no little frustration!
Here's the job at hand - I have to replace the driver's side radius arm bushing on my '96 F150 4WD. I bought the SB 4.9l a little over a year ago, and it's been absolutely trouble free, until a few weeks ago, when the left wheel started sounding like the shock was going out. A visit to the undercarriage showed the radius arm bushing to have worn through, and vertical wheel movement was making the arm pound in the bracket.
I need to drill out three rivets that hold the bracket, and complete its removal, replacing the rivets with schedule 9 bolts. Sometime before I bought the truck, the right side had been done, and will be little trouble pulling it to keep both sides matched; but the driver's side had only one rivet replaced before someone decided to leave it alone.
I've managed to drill through one of the rivets, but am getting a little frustrated with figuring out how to remove the stubborn bits of heads on both sides as well as clean out the chassis holes without damaging them. A propane torch, to soften them up is out of the question, as inside the chassis channel, in the inside, are rigid brake lines that I cannot risk harming in any way (and the thought of even marginally annealing the metal is disconcerting).
So: Is anyone here experienced in this task?
I have to accomplish this myself, as the shop fees I've been quoted are prohibitive (and, unfortunately, the mechanics have been no little condesending). A narrow cold chisel and a singlejack sledge were my tools today, but they barely made a dent (but tomorrow's another day, and if necessary will simply persevere until completion). I worry that using a tapered blind drift will only become marvellously friction-fit, and only compound the problem. Using a hardened drill for steel the same diameter as the hole risks frame damage, so I've stopped short of that.
Drilling up, while on my back is loads of fun, and an inexpensive pair of shatterproof goggles has saved my eyes from metal splinters, and a dust mask has protected the rest of my face. Yes, the rear wheels are securely chocked, and each front I-beam is solidly on its own 6-ton jack stand, and a 3.5 ton service jack is the redundant support on the right side of the front diff - I am very, very careful.
Anyone?
Post by: Nick1911 on April 02, 2007, 07:31:00 PM
-Nick
Post by: Stand_watie on April 02, 2007, 07:49:47 PM
Post by: Trisha on April 02, 2007, 08:03:10 PM
Can you bring one up to me? Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .
And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!
BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).
Thanks!
Post by: Stand_watie on April 02, 2007, 08:10:02 PM
Can you bring one up to me? Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .
And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!
BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).
Thanks!
I'm not sure where you live, but it sounds nice. If I bring my Dremel and a tent can Erica and I stay and camp a while?
Post by: gunsmith on April 03, 2007, 12:49:41 AM
Post by: 280plus on April 03, 2007, 12:50:42 AM
Post by: gunsmith on April 03, 2007, 01:06:16 AM
Post by: Nick1911 on April 03, 2007, 02:26:36 AM
Can you bring one up to me? Kathryn needs the Durango, so I'm stranded (she's back to running calls with Rescue after she gets in District - we're short of local folks to take second out, and it's been BUSY). . .
And it's an hour's walk to get to the mail box and back (not to mention the +600' change in elevation each way)!
BFH and a 1" chisel, I guess (my aching shoulders!).
Thanks!
Maybe - do you live within an hour of Lafayette, IN?
-Nick
Post by: Stickjockey on April 03, 2007, 04:04:04 AM
I've got one of these, it works terrifically:
http:www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=40457
Post by: charby on April 03, 2007, 04:49:17 AM
I have a 4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with, I'll be doing the same on upper and lower ball joints on my Jimmy one the weather gets a little warmer.
I've used the angle grinder to cut rivets off door handles from inside the door, cut stubborn bolts off and burns through exhaust clamps.
Plus you can pick up a sander disk for it and use it for body work if needed.
Good luck with the rivets, if you were near central Iowa I'd come cut them off for you for some beer.
-Charby
Post by: Art Eatman on April 03, 2007, 05:11:59 AM
Odds are that you wouldn't enlarge the holes enough to hurt, if the bit drifts off-center. If it were just one, well, maybe; but with three I imagine the three bolts will hold well enough.
I'd just drill as much as possible, and then alternate the mix of round file and chisel/hammer.
If there is any air gap between the brake lines and the frame, using a torch with the flame directed parallel to the frame rail wouldn't harm the lines. You wouldn't be heating the frame itself; just the rivet. I'm not sure, though, that a propane torch would get the rivet hot enough to reduce its hardness.
Generally, frame-rail steel is tough, not hard. "Mild steel".
If you can grind off the head of the rivet on one side, though, it should just take a punch to drive the remains out of the way...
Just some ideas...
Art
Post by: roo_ster on April 03, 2007, 06:43:09 AM
Dremels are cheap & useful tools. They can be ordered over the net. Careful, though, they can do great damage if brought in the vicinity of firearms.
Another fine tool is the 1/2" hammer drill. It makes tough drilling jobs much easier.
Consumer-grade dremels and hammer drills are pretty cheap, too.
I have done what Art describes (using full-diameter drill bit) and things have turned out just peachy. For some operations, I will buy the cheapest steel bit in the (possibly wrong) hope that the cheap steel bit will do less damage if it goes off-line.
I have also used dremel cut-off disks and dremel slim grinder/stone bits to go after rivets from the inside-out.
Good luck.
BTW, mechanics that give gals a hard time are lunkheads.
Post by: mtnbkr on April 03, 2007, 06:54:46 AM
Quote
BTW, mechanics that give gals a hard time are lunkheads.
Absolutely. I won't do business with a shop if they don't treat my wife well regardless of the quality of their work.BTW, years ago, the wife of the owner of they shop I used to take my Beetle to was telling me how the mechanics used to give her crap when she first started helping out around the shop (when I met her, she was up to doing repair work and assisting customers with resto related issues). One day, they told her they needed some blinker fluid (or some other nonsensical product). After embarrasing herself at the auto parts place, she came back and decked the mechanic.
Chris
Post by: 280plus on April 03, 2007, 06:57:27 AM
Quote
I'm not sure, though, that a propane torch would get the rivet hot enough to reduce its hardness.
I concur, no way propane will get it hot enough. Post by: Trisha on April 03, 2007, 08:10:55 AM
I was considering MAP gas, not propane - it burns quite at a higher temp due to the acetlyne mixture. I've easily soldered, using .999 pure silver with it in the past, and gave it a passing question mark for this application.
Renting an air hammer and compressor? Something to investigate, but doubtful in the area's resource - and driving 50 miles one way to try and wheedle a clerk in a different county has proven to be an exercise in futility.
The small angle grinder sounds promising, and might, just might be available at the local rent-a-tool.
It's driving Kathryn to frustration to not be able to get down there and help, but the angles and torques involved make it out of the question as she can never stress the disc and vertebrae immediately above the surgery or the SHTF major league enough so that it would make her previous repair seem minor according to her surgeon.
You guys do understand the rivets I'm referring to have close to an inch in diameter heads, I suppose. (Having never tackled this, they seem more than large enough).
Many thanks for all the feedback - and thanks, too, for the grins at the non-mechanically inclined references to other waiting projects here and there.
Oh, Stand_waite? Camping in our front yard would see you and Erica confronting an irate little family group of about 7-9 mule deer who bed down out there. We have another family group of fox, and yet another of raccoon, not to mention the territorial mountain lioness and occasional elk who would inquire within. There are loads more homes built up here since Y2K loomed and folks thought civilization would end, though most are vacant (unimproved roads, desperately poor county - no real infrastructure save rural electricity and phones back here).
Just about heaven, this time of year (fire season hasn't begun yet, and there's still time before tourist season/end of classes for the school kids).
Home is outside of Bailey, CO (N till the road ends, and then turn left).
Time to get back to chores before heading to the garage.
Post by: Nick1911 on April 03, 2007, 09:12:18 AM
Quote
...4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with...
+1 to this idea. If you have the room to work an angle grinder will make short work of a rivet head. Just be careful to not go too deep. I bought my angle grinder several years ago from Tractor Supply for $10. I'm abused the crap out of it, but it's still going strong! IIRC it was made by "clarke"
-Nick
Post by: Sindawe on April 03, 2007, 09:42:41 AM
Quote
...4.5" angle grinder that I take rivets off with...
2nd on that. My then brother in law used an angle grinder to CUT the frame engine mounts out of a car to use on another when we swapped engines and the mounts did not line up. He ran that car for another 4 or five years with no issues on the engine mounts.
Post by: 280plus on April 03, 2007, 09:50:59 AM
Post by: Tallpine on April 03, 2007, 10:23:50 AM
As Art says, grind off one head of the rivet flush with the frame/bracket, then drive out the rivet with punch and hammer.
Otherwise, find yourself an old 73-87 Chevy or GMC pickup with the solid front axle and leaf springs ...
Post by: caseydog on April 03, 2007, 06:26:32 PM
Ray
Post by: RocketMan on April 03, 2007, 06:47:18 PM
Or should the rivets be replaced?
Just curious as this is not something I have done before.
Post by: charby on April 03, 2007, 06:49:36 PM
I have to ask, what happens after the rivets are removed? What are they replaced with? High grade bolts of some sort, Grade 8 or something better?
Or should the rivets be replaced?
Just curious as this is not something I have done before.
Or should the rivets be replaced?
Just curious as this is not something I have done before.
The ball joints come with bolts that replace the rivets, I believe the rivets are easier for robots to put in place than bolts and nuts at the factory.
-C
Post by: RocketMan on April 03, 2007, 07:23:24 PM
(And I, unlike a certain self-proclaimed shade tree mechanic, have a Dremel tool!
)
Post by: Trisha on April 04, 2007, 09:47:21 AM
caseydog, with the radius arm nuts already removed, and the old bushings prised free there isn't any torque on the mounts as the I-beams are independently supported and the bottom shock mounting bolts are removed. I'm loath to torque the axle longitudinally at all, as that can damage the upper I-beam pivot bushings (though, surprisingly, some load that to such a degree as to completely free the radius arm from the bracket entirely to bypass removing said bracket!).
A new Bosch angle grinder is en-route, as well as a short stack of cut-off discs, BTW. A local aquaintence who asks for match-grade handloads is a welder, and wholeheartedly recommended an angle grinder, adding that a 6 amp is more manageable for cramped spaces than going for the 12 amp choices (on my back on a Bonester creeper - outstanding item, that - with about 10 inches between me and the 5/8ths dia rivets, I was appreciative for that bit of practical advice), and the majority of said models run 'bout twice the smaller ones.
Once this repair is completed, I plan on stress-relieving the entire frame before taking it in to get the alignment professionally done.
Four Rancho RS5000 shocks are in the future, when the truck goes in for new Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor tires.
Kathryn's '01 Durango gets new ceramic brakes, with slotted front discs and armored brake lines first, though (and a Yellow Top Optima battery).
The hot tub continues to be a recuperative resource; and Advil is my friend!
I still managed to roast coffee yesterday, as well as making two loaves of sourdough. . .
Post by: 280plus on April 04, 2007, 11:29:38 AM
Post by: armchair warrior on April 04, 2007, 12:26:29 PM
be the air chisel.This is what they were made for!
You can remove a lot of stuff with one those babies!
Probably take less than 3 minutes to remove all three rivets.
Remove heads,drive out with hammer and punch.
Next up would be drilling out rivets.Guesstimate the size of the hole,
go one smaller and have at it.Finish with hammer/punch.
Last would be grinder.While effective,IMO,would take too long,dangerous
(sparks) and general P.I.T.A(You ain't lived until you've set
your pants on fire!!!).Grind off head,hammer/punch.
Possibly use a thin cutting wheel on 4.5 grinder,carefully cut heads off,hammer/punch.
Good luck.
WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!!