Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Devonai on February 13, 2022, 11:41:51 AM
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I've always had a soft spot for bayonets (mostly around the torso area), and having spent time in the infantry I've always bought into the "spirit of the bayonet" as a properly indoctrinated grunt. Though more than a decade removed from being in any kind of situation that would compel the debate personally, it's still a perennial topic as indicated on various Army forums. Despite the fact that Fort Benning closed down their bayonet assault course some years ago, most armories still have stacks of M9s and even some M7s tucked away in their vaults.
I'm of the opinion that if you're issued a weapon with a bayonet lug, why not carry one? Let's say the weight of the rest of your crap isn't a factor and you're either issued one or allowed to buy your own. Yea or nay? Do you like the idea of a field knife style like the M9 (whether or not it actually does that is debatable), or a dedicated stabby knife like the M7?
The other factor is whether or not to keep it sharp. I fall firmly in the sharp camp and it doesn't make sense to me why you'd want to keep it dull. Reasons I've heard include "it will rust faster" and "it'll be harder to pull it out of the enemy." Bunk? I own an M7 and put a razor-sharp, cleave-a-piece-of-paper edge on it rather easily. In fact it's one of the sharpest knives I own. On the other hand I also own a 6H4 and it seems obvious to me that it was never intended to have cutting edge by any stretch of the imagination.
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Former Infantry officer. I recognize that bayonet charges are a thing of the past...way past. But, I have to agree. Why not have one? And, since it can be a knife or a stabby-pointy on your rifle, make it sharp. More useful if it can cut stuff, and not just act as a pointy end of your rfile?
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The only bayonets I have been familiar with are AK bayonets. All of them I have seen were so dull they would be useless as a knife. It is my understanding that dull bayonets are less likely to get stuck in bones, though how accurate that is I do not know. The spear point is sufficient to kill without needing a sharp edge. The Finns do have a sharp bayonet with their Valmet rifles, however.
Fixed blade knives are useful for soldiers. Having a lug to attach them to a rifle seems to be a minimal expense, and so would probably be worth doing.
It is my understanding that bayonets are still useful for dispersing rioters and guarding prisoners. A rioter may not believe you will shoot him, but he certainly may think you are going to poke him, if you are marching towards him pointing your bayonet at him, along with a lot of your pals.
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The only bayonet I own is a Mosin cruciform bayonet. Now that’s a nasty thing to stick somebody with. My AR had a bayonet lug but it had to go for the free float guard install.
I would sharpen a knife style bayonet simply for the utilitarian aspect.
Weren’t there a couple of bayonet charges in Afghanistan or Iraq?
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Weren’t there a couple of bayonet charges in Afghanistan or Iraq?
I recall reading that there was, and that it was very successful partly because hadji experienced extreme cognitive dissonance before
getting the stabby end of the pointy thing.
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The only bayonets I have been familiar with are AK bayonets. All of them I have seen were so dull they would be useless as a knife. It is my understanding that dull bayonets are less likely to get stuck in bones, though how accurate that is I do not know. The spear point is sufficient to kill without needing a sharp edge. The Finns do have a sharp bayonet with their Valmet rifles, however.
Fixed blade knives are useful for soldiers. Having a lug to attach them to a rifle seems to be a minimal expense, and so would probably be worth doing.
It is my understanding that bayonets are still useful for dispersing rioters and guarding prisoners. A rioter may not believe you will shoot him, but he certainly may think you are going to poke him, if you are marching towards him pointing your bayonet at him, along with a lot of your pals.
I always figured the intimidation factor was a reason to have it.
I would have thought CQB training would include them, but I don't know what is taught. With body armor becoming more prevalent, I would think close quarters could be more likely. I guess there is a great deal to CQB tactics to prevent ever having to worry about hand to hand.
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if I still had my m1 carbine, i would have a sharp bayonet on it or with it.
seems like a perfect home self defense for a zombie apocalypse
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Weren’t there a couple of bayonet charges in Afghanistan or Iraq?
Yes, by the brits.
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Yes, by the brits.
The one I heard about they never actually got into bayonet range. They fixed bayonets and charged and the opposition ran off.
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. . . It is my understanding that bayonets are still useful for dispersing rioters and guarding prisoners. A rioter may not believe you will shoot him, but he certainly may think you are going to poke him, if you are marching towards him pointing your bayonet at him, along with a lot of your pals.
Depends a lot on the leadership - or lack of same. There were cases here in the USA (Chicago, for one) several decades ago where the National Guard was called out for riot duty and instructed to fix bayonets - but to leave the sheath on. :facepalm: I recall the hippies or yippies mocking the troops for that. (Don't remember seeing any given a poke with a sheathed bayonet, though - I don't think it would tickle.)
Only bayonets I've got are for my Mosin and Arisaka rifles - the latter is almost like a short sword.
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As a soldier, there's not a lot of reason to actually affix one to a rifle. I carry an ESEE-5 on my body armor when in the sandbox. Same one for the last 3 trips. It's a better knife hands down than the M9 I was issued.
That said, I did the Bayonet Assault Course at Benning back in 98, and it's true that blood makes the grass grow green. Even if unused, the training and the spirit that surrounds the idea of a bayonet charge is important to instill in young soldiers.
To paraphrase Yellowstone sometimes the best plan is "*expletive deleted*ck It".
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If time comes to fix bayonets, well... I have one.
But I also have an S&W 642...
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Being the olde pharte that I am, I prefer the M7 style. Funny thing is, when I saw a photo of an M9 my immediate reaction was that it looked like it belonged on an AK -- and then I read that it was copied from a Russian AK design.
Sharp, of course.
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My 6H4 was advertised as an "AK-74" bayonet. I purchased it back in 1996 so I can't remember the country of origin, maybe East Germany. As I mentioned it came so dull that you could run it across your skin with a considerable amount of force without injury. Same with the tip; I don't think even a full-strength thrust could penetrate even BDU fabric let alone inflict a fatal injury.
It's got a chisel edge, and I'm embarrassed to say that I have neither the tools nor inclination to try to sharpen it. But it seems to be a quality piece of steel and I have no reason to believe it couldn't be done.
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As a soldier, there's not a lot of reason to actually affix one to a rifle. I carry an ESEE-5 on my body armor when in the sandbox. Same one for the last 3 trips. It's a better knife hands down than the M9 I was issued.
That said, I did the Bayonet Assault Course at Benning back in 98, and it's true that blood makes the grass grow green. Even if unused, the training and the spirit that surrounds the idea of a bayonet charge is important to instill in young soldiers.
To paraphrase Yellowstone sometimes the best plan is "*expletive deleted*ck It".
I think that is probably the most important part of it.
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Would this be useful?
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I know exactly why bayonets aren't issued, bayonets are on the commander hand receipt. Its has nothing to do usefulness.
The company commander is not paying or dealing will field lost paperwork, so they stay lockup, in the vault.
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Hey, don't let your Captain or Major get rusty on their FLIPL actions! :P
Back when I was still an 11B, I bought my own M7 (same one I referenced above) and hooked it up to my LBE. This was met with derision and my SL told me to get rid of it. At the time I was thoroughly confused. Is this a National Guard thing? Echoes of Kent State? I knew they weren't going to issue me an M9 but I was not expecting such a reaction when guys had KABARs and other such pigstickers they'd bought for themselves.
???
I put my bayonet in my ALICE pack and there it stayed for 6 years.
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I know exactly why bayonets aren't issued, bayonets are on the commander hand receipt. Its has nothing to do usefulness.
The company commander is not paying or dealing will field lost paperwork, so they stay lockup, in the vault.
Meh. So are M4's and NOD's and we take them out. Add the baynets to the weapons cards and send them out and you can still burn the PFC for them if they loose them.
We actually turned ours in last year so no stabby-shooty at my unit. Sad sigh.
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Figure out how to mount a Swiss engineer bayo or a not cut down 1905 onto your M4.