Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: MechAg94 on July 09, 2022, 01:08:11 AM
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https://reason.com/2022/07/08/new-arizona-law-will-make-it-illegal-to-film-within-eight-feet-of-police/
The legislation, H.B. 2319, makes it a misdemeanor offense to continue filming police activity from within eight feet of an officer after receiving a verbal warning. The bill originally restricted filming the police from no closer than 15 feet away, but it was amended after criticisms.
There are also exceptions for filming the police in a private residence, during a traffic stop, and for the subject of a police encounter. But the law qualifies those exceptions, saying they apply only if the person recording is "not interfering with lawful police actions," or "unless a law enforcement officer determines that the person is interfering in the law enforcement activity or that it is not safe to be in the area and orders the person to leave the area."
Steve Lehto
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaqYT1cmtqo
I am curious what all you think about this. IMO, the 8 foot part is not unreasonable. I have seen a few youtube videos where people seem determined to put their camera in the face of the officer or right over their shoulder. 8 feet is a pretty short distance for a 3rd party recording video. Off the top of my head, most video I see is from further away so I doubt this will affect most footage we see.
I am thinking the issues will be with other details like if someone is filming and an officer walks toward them, do they have to keep moving back? Do they have to stay 8 feet from an officer out on the perimeter or from the officer actually involved in whatever is being filmed? It appears they have tried to put in exceptions for people directly involved or inside vehicles/buildings.
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I tend to think there were already laws against interfering with police, and in general anytime a cop doesn't want to be on camera while cop-ing, I am suspicious.
I do realize that many of these interactions end up edited or shown to the public without necessary context, I just have exhausted any benefit of the doubt I used to have for US Law Enforcement.
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I don't know enough about the legal background to know if there were previous laws that would cover this or if Arizona LE are asking for special privileges, or what. I can certainly see the concern for somebody with a camera getting in a cop's face as they are interacting with someone. The cop doesn't know who these people are or if they have a camera or weapon. If I found myself in some confrontation in public, especially as a CCW carrier, I would be very concerned with unknowns (who could be buddies of the other person(s) ) getting in my space from all sides. Filming from farther should never be illegal, IMO.
This should (I guess just from common sense if not legally) be something of a standard. I don't want anyone I don't know getting in my face with a camera or otherwise.
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That is largely where I am sitting on this. Inside 8 feet is pretty close for a 3rd party in what might be a tense situation already. Inside 8 feet, you are more or less at arms length and can put the camera right in their face. If they are dealing with another person, that is normally interfering and will get in their way if something happens.
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Several decades ago, when video cameras were a new item, some activist organizations bought a bunch and distributed them to some people in the hood so they could document police actions. The instructions were to keep their distance - filming from across the street was the preferred technique. Police were not amused, and tried mightily to suppress their actions - I recall seeing videos of cops trying to steal the cameras of other videographers - not pretty. I even recall a case where police saw someone filming them from inside their own house and began pounding on the door, demanding the tape.
IIRC, Chicago actually had a local ordinance for a time which prohibited photographing cops - I don't believe it stood up to a court challenge.
With camera enabled smartphones today being nearly ubiquitous, it's nearly impossible to stop photography in populated areas. Best they can do is try to keep people back - I know if I were photographing cops in action, I would definitely keep my distance since I wouldn't want to become part of the story myself.
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I'm concerned about the situation where the observer is filming more than 8 feet away, and the officer chooses to move towards the filmer.
There's two issues here: First is you can either stand your ground and violate the 8 feet embargo, or you can retreat and potentially be accused of fleeing a scene of a crime or evading an officer. Second is you are now the target of a police interaction, which negates the 8 foot embargo. I wish the law was clear about the officer choosing to encroach on the 8 foot embargo.
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I'm concerned about the situation where the observer is filming more than 8 feet away, and the officer chooses to move towards the filmer.
There's two issues here: First is you can either stand your ground and violate the 8 feet embargo, or you can retreat and potentially be accused of fleeing a scene of a crime or evading an officer. Second is you are now the target of a police interaction, which negates the 8 foot embargo. I wish the law was clear about the officer choosing to encroach on the 8 foot embargo.
I agree. That is the issue where I would have a concern. I would imagine you are taking video of two officers restraining a suspect from 20 feet way. A 3rd officer walks up to you tells you to back off. Does the 8 feet apply to the two officers or to the 3rd one not directly involved. I didn't see anyone mention that scenario so that is one area a court could address or throw it out.