Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Ben on September 02, 2022, 08:35:35 AM
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California seems to really be on a (downhill) roll lately. Apparently they have just passed their "FAST" legislation, that bumps fast food worker minimum wages from $15/hr to $22/hr.
I still argue that sure, in San Francisco this is still poverty level wages*, but in many other parts of CA, people like skilled electricians are gonna start getting pissed off that unskilled workers are making nearly what they make. Seems like this will cause lots of prices to go up.
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/california-dreamin-fast-food-workers-will-hurt-help
*Which brings up the point that the bigger issue is people thinking burger flipping is a career, rather than a part time job for high school kids.
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I have noticed that same sentiment among a bunch of the skilled labor folks I work with: If minimum wage is getting these huge bumps, why are the jobs that require skills, or busting your ass in a shitty environment not getting similar increases?
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They will, I expect.
And I'm guessing unless inflation gets a lot worse, the surviving fast food restaurants are going to have one or two skilled employees making $22 and hour and robots making the food.
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*Which brings up the point that the bigger issue is people thinking burger flipping is a career, rather than a part time job for high school kids.
What is your reason for believing that burger flipping shouldn't be a career?
People say that a lot, but I don't really understand why. It seems like you could substitute almost any job into that statement and it wouldn't be any more or less wrong.
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(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/10/c8/3e/10c83ecbd180e8b5b9a85382dc7856e6.jpg)
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A McDonald's meal now cost me what a steak dinner cost me not too long ago.
Heck I can still remember their ads bragging how you get a cheese burger, fries, and a drink, hand them a dollar and get change back.
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What is your reason for believing that burger flipping shouldn't be a career?
People say that a lot, but I don't really understand why. It seems like you could substitute almost any job into that statement and it wouldn't be any more or less wrong.
Jobs that can be taught to almost anybody in an hour are very limited in advancement. I guess you could make a career out of it as long as your long-term aspirations don't go higher than minimum wage. Having the government mandate that you be paid as much as somebody who takes a couple years to become proficient is a recipe for disaster.
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A government mandated 46% raise. This will shift the supply/demand curve to where there are many more people willing to work in fast food, but very few jobs. What can be automated will be. Staffing will be cut. Locations will probably close.
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A government mandated 46% raise. This will shift the supply/demand curve to where there are many more people willing to work in fast food, but very few jobs. What can be automated will be. Staffing will be cut. Locations will probably close.
And inflationary pressure on the economy will increase, at least in California.
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What is your reason for believing that burger flipping shouldn't be a career?
If the price of labor continues to skyrocket, working fast food may become a skilled career... for a few people needed to run the robots and manage the restaurant. The low-skilled kids will probably be gone, replaced by older, more intelligent workers. Just not very many of them per store.
If labor is cheap, more labor is hired, and less capital (machines, etc.) is bought.
When labor is expensive, management spends more on capital and hires less people.
Fruit picking drones are in development:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olybtRPdwg
Instead of needing hordes of illegals to work seasonally in the orchard, you can have a few smarter, well paid folks run machinery.
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Washington and Oregon will soon be announcing they are following Cali's lead.
Donkey see donkey do
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A McDonald's meal now cost me what a steak dinner cost me not too long ago.
Heck I can still remember their ads bragging how you get a cheese burger, fries, and a drink, hand them a dollar and get change back.
You olde phart. (Uh . . . wait a sec . . . I remember those commercials too! Never mind what I wrote. ;) )
About the only time I go to McD's is at the airport - it's one of the few concourse restaurants that I've found to be consistently palatable and (so far) safe no matter what airport I've been in.
Fast food is no longer cheap. I priced a Double Combo at Wendy's for $11.49 (burger, fries, drink) and realized I can get a better-tasting burger at Chili's with fries, a drink, and my choice of soup or salad for $10.99. OK, I'll leave a tip at Chili's, but still . . . And the servers at Chili's all speak English, which is NOT something I can say about the local Wendy's. (I've toyed with the idea of wearing a T-shirt with INS or ICE lettering if I go to Wendy's . . . >:D )
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If the price of labor continues to skyrocket, working fast food may become a skilled career... for a few people needed to run the robots and manage the restaurant. The low-skilled kids will probably be gone, replaced by older, more intelligent workers. Just not very many of them per store.
With that one edit, I've already seen this in Tampa. BK, Wendy's and McDonalds will sometimes run on three or four people in the entire store. Those employees will all be adults. I haven't seen a teenager in a fast food place around here for a while.
Orders mostly come in by app or kiosk, and everyone will have a Drive Through headset on so they can tag team it. If you want to order at the counter from a person it could be a long wait. For example, I've gone in to get lunch, ordered from the kiosk, got my food, and left all while one person is standing at the counter waiting on an employee to take their order.
Jesus Chicken still seems to have a bunch of employees.
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What is your reason for believing that burger flipping shouldn't be a career?
People say that a lot, but I don't really understand why. It seems like you could substitute almost any job into that statement and it wouldn't be any more or less wrong.
I suppose part of it is boomer reasoning. It was always a high school kid job when I was in high school. Or retired people, housewives, second job, etc. Not to apply it to the entire fast food industry. My understanding is that motivated burger flippers can move up to $100k/yr corporate jobs at places like McDonalds. It has always seemed like a "transient job" to me - something you do while going to school, or for extra income or what have you, not a 30 year career on the lowest rung of the fast food industry.
To counter my own argument, it seems Chick-fil-A has a lot of "working age" adults in their restaurants. Of course they might be doing the career ladder.
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California seems to really be on a (downhill) roll lately. Apparently they have just passed their "FAST" legislation, that bumps fast food worker minimum wages from $15/hr to $22/hr.
911 center in town here is advertising for dispatchers, at less than that.
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And they called people who said it was only going to escalate when they got their $15 crazy.
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With that one edit, I've already seen this in Tampa. BK, Wendy's and McDonalds will sometimes run on three or four people in the entire store. Those employees will all be adults. I haven't seen a teenager in a fast food place around here for a while.
Orders mostly come in by app or kiosk, and everyone will have a Drive Through headset on so they can tag team it. If you want to order at the counter from a person it could be a long wait. For example, I've gone in to get lunch, ordered from the kiosk, got my food, and left all while one person is standing at the counter waiting on an employee to take their order.
Jesus Chicken still seems to have a bunch of employees.
The "new" fast food places seem to employ the teenagers, at least around here. The ones that are putting out better food than the 1980's old time kings (McD, Burger King, Taco Bell, KFC, etc). Chic-Fil-A, In-n-Out, Freddies, and I might even include Sonic in that list. In-n-Out in particular is emblematic of hiring the "good" teenagers that keep spotless stores and make precise orders. The teenagers seem to know that the old guard is a *expletive deleted*it place to go work.
Then again... this is nominally Mormon country. Chic-Fil-A has its reputation as Jesus Chicken, and Freddies also carries a similar sentiment, a bit more subdued.
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A McDonald's meal now cost me what a steak dinner cost me not too long ago.
Heck I can still remember their ads bragging how you get a cheese burger, fries, and a drink, hand them a dollar and get change back.
1960, when McDonald's was still fairly new. There were only two McDonald's anywhere near me than, and they may have been the only two in the entire state. Now, of course, you can't drive more than three miles without seeing a Mickey D's.
The radio advertising slogan back then was: "45 cents for a three-course meal? Sounds to me like that's a steal -- AAAAAAAT McDonald's."
The three-course meal was a hamburger, an order of fries (they only had one size back then) and a milkshake. (I think they actually used milk in them then, too.)
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When I was in college in the early 90's, a base burger combo meal was $2.99. Of course, minimum wage was $3.35 or $3.50.
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In-n-Out in particular is emblematic of hiring the "good" teenagers that keep spotless stores and make precise orders. The teenagers seem to know that the old guard is a *expletive deleted*it place to go work.
We're not getting In-N-Out around here until next year, but I visited frequently back in CA, and yeah, it was kind of high schoolers out of Leave it to Beaver. Super clean and neat looking, super polite, very hard workers. Not your stereotypical modern slackard teens.
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"*Which brings up the point that the bigger issue is people thinking burger flipping is a career, rather than a part time job for high school kids."
It IS a career.
What do you think all of those Gender Studies majors with minors in Interpretative Dance of Lesbian Basket Weaving are going to do for their careers?
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"California seems to really be on a (downhill) roll lately. "
Oh and good. Let them destroy them selves and *expletive deleted*ck them when the come begging for bailouts.
California is the Greece of the financial world. And I can't wait to watch that state burn, both figuratively and literally.
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"California seems to really be on a (downhill) roll lately. "
Oh and good. Let them destroy them selves and *expletive deleted*ck them when the come begging for bailouts.
California is the Greece of the financial world. And I can't wait to watch that state burn, both figuratively and literally.
I'm right there with you, but besides the fact that they have states copying what they do, there's always gonna be some Democrat President in one term or another that will bail them out.
They should have been made a pariah after the whole bullet train boondoggle (though I believe it should have happened after the gas can fiasco), and Trump was starting to make them pay, but then Biden got in and bailed them out.
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I have noticed that same sentiment among a bunch of the skilled labor folks I work with: If minimum wage is getting these huge bumps, why are the jobs that require skills, or busting your ass in a shitty environment not getting similar increases?
I am making 23.50/hr at my job and 27 something at my PT job. Meanwhile if I want to be an overnight manager at Sheetz they start at 19. So why exactly am i doing skilled things that not many others can do?
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Analyze all you want, extrapolate all you want, kick it around and up and down.
Here's the nitty-gritty rock solid bottom floor truth to it:
California is firmly on board with "wreck the economy, therefore the nation, and therefore allow communism to be the 'solution' to our problems."
Laugh, deride me, shun me, call me an extremist, call me anything you want, but that's the solid honest-to-G-d truth to it.
I said it and I ain't takin' it back.
Signed,
Terry, 230RN
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Analyze all you want, extrapolate all you want, kick it around and up and down.
Here's the nitty-gritty rock solid bottom floor truth to it:
California is firmly on board with "wreck the economy, therefore the nation, and therefore allow communism to be the 'solution' to our problems."
Laugh, deride me, shun me, call me an extremist, call me anything you want, but that's the solid honest-to-G-d truth to it.
I said it and I ain't takin' it back.
Signed,
Terry, 230RN
There's an old saying called Hanlon's Razor which goes something like "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
Unfortunately, mere stupidity fails to explain what's going on - just consider, if politicians were governing by coin flip, they'd be getting it right half the time. But in many cases - THEY'RE NOT. Is stupidity going to give worse results than a coin flip? Not likely, not in the long term.
That leaves actual malice as the most likely motivation. Deliberate and intentional malice.
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I am making 23.50/hr at my job and 27 something at my PT job. Meanwhile if I want to be an overnight manager at Sheetz they start at 19. So why exactly am i doing skilled things that not many others can do?
These ratios cannot stand, and have skilled jobs entice people to invest so many years into building skills.
Used to be a burger flipper got $8 an hour, and a skilled industrial worker or EMT made twice that. Now the industrial or EMT gig is only a couple bucks more than the burger job, and only representing 10-15% greater compensation.
There's going to be another wave of inflation as everyone plays "catch up" on salary expectations to get ahead of the moocher class.
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These ratios cannot stand, and have skilled jobs entice people to invest so many years into building skills.
Used to be a burger flipper got $8 an hour, and a skilled industrial worker or EMT made twice that. Now the industrial or EMT gig is only a couple bucks more than the burger job, and only representing 10-15% greater compensation.
There's going to be another wave of inflation as everyone plays "catch up" on salary expectations to get ahead of the moocher class.
To be clear, I am living an okay life. I have an $800/month fixed rate mortgage. My pay is about average for most jobs in the area. But some are rising faster. When I took my job three months before the great Rona my pay was okay. Not what I wanted, but okay. I had another job offer at the local aviation outfit for same money worse benefits. At the time my wage was a bit more than double the average fast food or c-store job. My pay increased at normal time speeds, theirs accelerated a bit. This year I have built numerous architectural metals that are to be installed within blocks of the white house, erected structural steel, various other millwright stuff, welded and/or machined anything that needed to be done, etc. Where is my replacement coming from if the money isn't there?
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. . . Where is my replacement coming from if the money isn't there?
A Chinese-owned company will hire illegals from south of the border, managed by Chinese H1B visa holders willing to work for fish heads and rice. Work quality will suck, but the company will emphasize "EQUITY" so they'll be untouchable.
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A Chinese-owned company will hire illegals from south of the border, managed by Chinese H1B visa holders willing to work for fish heads and rice. Work quality will suck, but the company will emphasize "EQUITY" so they'll be untouchable.
Meh, I am still optimistic about the state of American manufacturing. The unions and corporate greed together chased a bunch of work offshore but I build American stuff every day. At the height of the plague we were even making plague related stuff and selling it to China. My former fulltime job, now part time we sell automated meat packing equipment all over the world. The more labor costs go up, the more we sell.
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To be clear, I am living an okay life. I have an $800/month fixed rate mortgage.
I getcha. My mortgage is a little above $900/month. It's nice. But no one can get such a mortgage any more. I bought my 0.3 acre cul-de-sac situated house back when it sold for $180k. I could list it for $450k today and get a bidding war going that would drive it near $500k.
No amount of money buys access to a time machine and yesteryear's mortgage. And no one thinks a burger-flipping job merits eligibility for a mortgage... but skilled blue collar jobs do. The difference NEEDS to be more than 10-15% for the next generation of home buyers to emerge. Not just due to inflation of property values, but for discrimination in earnings potential. A burger flipper is effectively capped in potential. Skilled blue collar labor is not.