Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Brad Johnson on December 13, 2022, 12:05:07 PM
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Matt Ferrell's video about zinc-bromide batteries.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wsSRq-bEm0
Old tech with renewed promise. Quite interesting. More energy dense than lead-acid in the same form factor. Discharge tolerant to zero volts, which is death to lead-acid and lithium-based batteries. Much greater charge/discharge cycle lifespan than lithium-based cells. Cost-effective, too, not to mention more inherently safe than lithium ion.
Brad
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Very interesting, thank you. Be nice to see them in AA and AAA sizes.
I'm sure everyone's looking at every possible combination in the electrochemical series.
Somehow I'm reminded of Penny and Professor Proton's potato clock.
https://youtu.be/jja8iHfWDAc (0:23)
Terry, 230RN
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I wonder if we'll ever get to the point of batteries with the same capacity as the "accumulators" in the old John W. Campbell science fiction novel The Mightiest Machine. IIRC, they'd store up to 30,000 kWh of energy per pound of weight . . . that's quite a few orders of magnitude better than today's real-world battery tech. (Tesla's long range battery weighs 1168 pounds and stores 75kWh of energy. You do the math. ;) )
Campbell's "accumulators" are going to remain strictly in the realm of science fiction longer than commercially viable fusion power plants will.
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Picayune me..,,.
"...they'd store up to 30,000 kwH of power per pound... "
That's energy, not power.
Power is Watts or kiloWatts (kW), the rate at which energy is expended.
One horsepower is 746 Watts, or 0.746 kiloWatts.
kWh is the total energy used or dissipated over a period of time.
One horsepower expended for one whole hour is one horsepower-hour of total energy or 0.746 kWh.
One horsepower expended for two whole hours is two horsepower-hours of total energy or 1.492 kWh.
Also, note that James Watt's name for the unit of power is capitalized, the rest of the designation is in lower case: kWh.
Same goes for "Volts," after Alessandro Giuseppe Antonio Anastasio Volta and "Amps" or "Amperes" after André-Marie Ampère and "Ohm" for Georg Simon Ohm.
I'm a pain in the ass at parties, too, but I haven't been invited to many lately.
Terry, 230RN
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. . . I'm a pain in the ass at parties, too, but I haven't been invited to many lately . . .
I made the corrections you suggested, but you really don't expect to be on my guest list now, do you? (That may be a blessing . . . )
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^ LOL !
Oh, I understand. There are a couple of common technical errors in non-pro literature that trigger me and energy-power is a particular bete-noire of mine.
This is because I used to be the last proofreader (another duty "as assigned") for press releases and such where I worked, and after a power-energy gaffe passed the first two reviewers, I made the correction.
El bosso argued with me about it on the basis that there was no difference between "energy" and "power" and he preferred the word power as being more "forceful" in the document. He could not understand the difference, so I told him to consult with a staff PE. Upshot, it went out with my correction.
This was long before Sheldon Cooper of the BBT existed, but looking back, I guess I was acting like "our Sheldon,."
Terry, 230RN
ETA: PE = Professional Engineer, one who has passed rigorous certification to use the designation.
BBT = Big Bang Theory. I've seen it used this way, but not sure how common it is.
ETA = Edited To Add
LOL = Laughed Out Loud
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Well if they ever get 30k of those KwHs into a one pound battery I want to play with one from a safe distance. Anything contained can be released. Sometimes that can even be controlled.
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Well if they ever get 30k of those KwHs into a one pound battery I want to play with one from a safe distance. Anything contained can be released. Sometimes that can even be controlled.
Someone (probably Kentucky Ballistics) will video themselves shooting the first 1 lb, 30,000 kWh battery. Guarantied.
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"KwH." You stinker.
Actually, how fast the total amount of energy is released could make it dangerous. If it's dissipated into a 100 Watt bulb, it would take 300,000 hours if I kept my decimals straight. If it's discharged into a copper bar, it could be explosive, like dropping a wrench across your car battery terminals.
Look at it this way. A spark from your hand to the wall electric plate after crossing the carpet may hit 20 or 30 thousand horsepower and yield a loud crack because the discharge occurs in microseconds.
But the total energy involved cannot possibly be more than the energy it took for you to shuffle across the carpet.
It's the time involved. You can't say 30,000 kWh is dangerous until you describe the timing involved.
Smaller quantities of energy are described in ergs or Joules, or electron Volts or foot-pounds and some other units. But a Joule is one Watt for one second, or one Watt-second. An electron Volt is 4.45049-23 Watt-hours. (0.000000000000000000000445049 Wh)
A foot-pound is 1.3558179483 Joules.
It depends on who's doing the describing as to what type of units are used.
For cartridges, it's foot pounds here in the US, overseas, it's Joules.
For cars, it's horsepower here and Watts over there.
Terry, 230RN
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...the energy it took to suffle across the carpet.
"shuffle"
Tit for tat and all that... =D
Brad
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5cYgRnfFDA
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Well if they ever get 30k of those KwHs into a one pound battery I want to play with one from a safe distance. Anything contained can be released. Sometimes that can even be controlled.
Funny you should mention that.
In the book they used drones to infiltrate & spy on enemy installations, and - with the push of a button - could release all the remaining stored energy in the drone's power source in one big surge. Didn't do the enemy base much good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uwzg7SYZKF0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=299knTdX-Wo
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5cYgRnfFDA
1 gW = 1.34 million hp.
1,000,000,000 ÷ 746 = 1,340,483
1.21 gW would be 1.62 million horsepower.
Run that for an hour and you'd be talkin' 1.21 gWh of energy.
Just pokin' around, the quickest number I could find to get an idea for Niagara Falls power output to toss around is:
"The now retired Ontario Power Company was located at the base of the Horseshoe Falls. It consisted of 10 generators and had a total power output capacity of 100,000 horsepower."
Underlining mine Note "power," not "energy."
Terry, 230RN
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1 gW = 1.34 million hp.
1.21 gW would be 1.62 million horsepower.
So, like, a lot.
Brad
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1 gW = 1.34 million hp.
1,000,000,000 ÷ 746 = 1,340,483
1.21 gW would be 1.62 million horsepower.
Now lets see the TNT equivalent!
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Now lets see the TNT equivalent!
1.0394172206185 Kilotons Of TNT
https://www.justintools.com/unit-conversion/energy.php?k1=horsepower-hour&k2=kilotons-of-TNT
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Same question as the 30,000 kWh battery question.
The energy available per unit of weight of TNT is a fixed amount. The power depends on whether you're burning it slowly in a fire or detonating it with a cap.
I believe IIRC there are about 20,000 kiloJoules of energy in a pound of TNT. That's about 19,000 BTU or almost two pounds of coal.
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I believe IIRC there are about 20,000 kiloJoules of energy in a pound of TNT. That's about 19,000 BTU or almost two pounds of coal.
Lignite or Anthracite?