Post by: Nitrogen on June 28, 2007, 07:25:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH6AYVn2yw4
While I'm not a fan of letting kids break the law (Skateboarding is apparently against a city ordinance there) performing a takedown on a kid and choking them seems to be excessive for this.
I don't want to come off as a cop basher, but come on. There's something inherently wrong with thism wouldn't you say?
Post by: Mabs2 on June 28, 2007, 07:36:15 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on June 28, 2007, 08:20:03 PM
Post by: vernal45 on June 28, 2007, 08:54:58 PM
Post by: Bogie on June 28, 2007, 09:39:09 PM
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Post by: LadySmith on June 28, 2007, 10:11:39 PM
Karma knows no time limit.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Absolute frikkin' truth.
Post by: Dannyboy on June 29, 2007, 03:16:17 AM
Karma knows no time limit.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Which is exactly why I don't plan on having kids.
On topic, though, Karma would be this *expletive deleted*che tripping over his own kid's skateboard and falling down stairs.
Post by: mtnbkr on June 29, 2007, 03:58:27 AM
Chris
Post by: cordex on June 29, 2007, 05:03:35 AM
Quote
While I'm not a fan of letting kids break the law (Skateboarding is apparently against a city ordinance there) performing a takedown on a kid and choking them seems to be excessive for this.
Anarchist! The law is the law. If that kid didn't want to get busted, she wouldn't have broken the law. The officer was justified in using whatever force necessary to stop the dangerous criminal. As Chris points out, the skaters probably even disobeyed him and been naughty or impolite in other ways. I'd say he should have gone straight to tasing that little skaterat to protect the little old ladies whose walkers have become the target of Geriatric Grinds. EXTREME Geriatric Grinds.We need that officer in my town. I've petitioned my HOA to install tiny tank traps along the sidewalks. If that doesn't work, I'm setting up pillboxes and minefields. My driveway is going to look like Omaha Beach, littered with shards of wood and tiny wheels.
Post by: Sindawe on June 29, 2007, 05:10:14 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on June 29, 2007, 05:11:16 AM
Karma knows no time limit.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
Sooner or later, it'll come back to bite everyone who deserves it.
I used to not believe in that, but then I saw stuff like, near here, an incident wherein someone grabbed the Salvation Army kettle from in front of a store, ran away across the street with it, and got run over by a bus.
Post by: Paddy on June 29, 2007, 06:03:23 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on June 29, 2007, 06:08:26 AM
Post by: Sindawe on June 29, 2007, 06:09:16 AM
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I'd bet the cop approached the kid about skateboarding on the sidewalk, and the kid spewed out some profane crap that pissed off the cop.
So the next time *I* confront some skaters using the HOA property as a skate park and they get mouthy, *I* can choke 'em and put them in headlocks?
Oh, wait. That's right. I'm not one of The King's Knights, I'm just a lowly tax-paying unit.
Post by: Paddy on June 29, 2007, 06:47:09 AM
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I don't think violence is a reasonable answer to profanity, especially when you're a cop, and especially when dealing with a little girl.
Maybe not, but if you act like an outlaw, why shouldn't you be treated like one? A cop is an officer of the law. They wear uniforms which identify them as authority figures; they are the enforcement arm of our legal system. The roadside or the sidewalk are not the places to challenge that authority; that's what the courts are for. Quote
So the next time *I* confront some skaters using the HOA property as a skate park and they get mouthy, *I* can choke 'em and put them in headlocks?
Oh, wait. That's right. I'm not one of The King's Knights, I'm just a lowly tax-paying unit.
Well, that's essentially correct; you are not the same as a cop. You're an adult, but not necessarily an authority figure; you're not wearing any uniform that identifies you; you could be just another child molester.
Oh, wait. That's right. I'm not one of The King's Knights, I'm just a lowly tax-paying unit.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 29, 2007, 06:51:04 AM
Quote
I don't think violence is a reasonable answer to profanity, especially when you're a cop, and especially when dealing with a little girl.
Maybe not, but if you act like an outlaw, why shouldn't you be treated like one? A cop is an officer of the law. They wear uniforms which identify them as authority figures; they are the enforcement arm of our legal system. The roadside or the sidewalk are not the places to challenge that authority; that's what the courts are for. And define "acting like an outlaw"?
Post by: roo_ster on June 29, 2007, 08:07:04 AM
The cop in question is a knucklehead for several reasons (Assume the youths in question were, indeed obnoxious, profane, and disrespectful. Not a stretch, IMO):
1. Getting physical with non-violent, non-threatening types.
I did not notice any threatening or dangerous behavior by the slackers. I think the cop just didn't like to see his authority questioned by punk slackers. I hope he got his satisfaction. I also hope he gets the karma-wedgie he deserves.
2. Getting physical without somebody to watch his back (later rectified)
I kept thinking, "Why doesn't anyone use their skateboard to bash his skull in?" while he is fiddling around on the ground. Obviously, the cop discounted the threat the other slackers posed. If the threat of the punks was so negligible, why the need to throw down in the first place?
3. Threatening to use OC for not flopping over on command
Hmm, I wonder if this occurred in a state where using OC is considered some sort of force to be used only in reaction to another threat of force. OC & Taser used as a means of compliance & not officer safety. Is this their training? As Borat would say, "Niiiice!"
4. Running off willy-nilly after another slacker while the first is cuffed and hanging out on the street.
No explication necessary.
-----
Knucklehead had the means to call in reinforcements. It would certainly have been wiser to wait until they had arrived before going Royce Gracie on one punk while the others stand around with bludgeoning objects in hand. Also, the presence of multiple LEOs on-site may very well have caused the punks to disperse.
Knucklehead just plain lost his cool and acted irrationally. For the love of Pete, he ran off after another punk while leaving the first to hang out on the city street.
IMO, nobody in that sordid scene acted like an adult. Just a bunch of punk adolescents, one with the power of the state behind him.
Post by: Manedwolf on June 29, 2007, 09:07:19 AM
Quote
3. Threatening to use OC for not flopping over on command
Hmm, I wonder if this occurred in a state where using OC is considered some sort of force to be used only in reaction to another threat of force. OC & Taser used as a means of compliance & not officer safety. Is this their training? As Borat would say, "Niiiice!"
Hmm, I wonder if this occurred in a state where using OC is considered some sort of force to be used only in reaction to another threat of force. OC & Taser used as a means of compliance & not officer safety. Is this their training? As Borat would say, "Niiiice!"
While it seemed as if the original purpose of the taser was a nonlethal means of putting down a physically fighting suspect, it's become an electric whip to enforce verbal compliance and as a means of punishment for talking back.
Post by: zahc on June 29, 2007, 09:20:40 AM
After he left the cuffed kid on the sidewalk, could said cuffed kid have left? Imagine if he asked 'am I free to go' while the officer was two blocks away.
Street skaters are no better than graffitti artists, actually they are worse because a lot of them seem to think they have some kind of right to destroy property that isn't theirs. The sooner they recognize themselves for the vandals they are the better it will be for everyone. I used to ride bmx and we just knew better than to even go out in the daytime. We painted our bikes flat black, yanked all reflectors, taped down all clanking cables, wore dark clothing, fixed sqeaky brakes, we put the picnic table back where we found it and when we went out riding nobody knew we had been there.
What's even worse about street skaters is that harmless longboarders such as myself share the hate that they generate.
Post by: HankB on June 29, 2007, 04:53:39 PM
If he treats everyone he meets like that, one day he's going to do it to the wrong party, and end up having his nose introduced to his ear. (Someone else mentioned karma . . . )
I'm kind of surprised the handcuffed kid just sat there when the cop ran off after another kid . . .
Post by: Thor on June 29, 2007, 07:33:47 PM
Quote
3. Threatening to use OC for not flopping over on command
Hmm, I wonder if this occurred in a state where using OC is considered some sort of force to be used only in reaction to another threat of force. OC & Taser used as a means of compliance & not officer safety. Is this their training? As Borat would say, "Niiiice!"
Hmm, I wonder if this occurred in a state where using OC is considered some sort of force to be used only in reaction to another threat of force. OC & Taser used as a means of compliance & not officer safety. Is this their training? As Borat would say, "Niiiice!"
While it seemed as if the original purpose of the taser was a nonlethal means of putting down a physically fighting suspect, it's become an electric whip to enforce verbal compliance and as a means of punishment for talking back.
Manedwolf, I'm kind of seeing it that way, too. Don't obey a cop or get mouthy, you get tased. The police have been granted far too much power in many instances. I'm not real sure I like what's going on with the cops.
Post by: S. Williamson on June 30, 2007, 12:04:36 AM
Police procedure has changed since I was little...
Post by: Sergeant Bob on June 30, 2007, 04:37:35 AM
While it seemed as if the original purpose of the taser was a nonlethal means of putting down a physically fighting suspect, it's become an electric whip to enforce verbal compliance and as a means of punishment for talking back.
Ever played the game "Halflife 2"?
It didn't seem to me like the kids were very mouthy at all. I thought they were quite civilized considering what was going on.
Post by: Paddy on June 30, 2007, 04:57:15 AM
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Once upon a time, they were officers of the peace, not officers of respect and compliance.
Quote
Outlawry is the same as "Disrespecting the King's Men" in the eyes of the King's men.
Quote
While it seemed as if the original purpose of the taser was a nonlethal means of putting down a physically fighting suspect, it's become an electric whip to enforce verbal compliance and as a means of punishment for talking back.
Quote
Manedwolf, I'm kind of seeing it that way, too. Don't obey a cop or get mouthy, you get tased. The police have been granted far too much power in many instances. I'm not real sure I like what's going on with the cops.
So y'all are saying that citizens have no obligation whatsoever to obey the lawful commands of a police officer? What should happen then? Should the police officer simply turn around and walk away?
Post by: ilbob on June 30, 2007, 06:25:22 AM
Does not make the choking any more acceptable, although just having someone by the throat is not necessarily choking, and it is hard to tell just what is happening from the edited video.
Post by: onions! on June 30, 2007, 06:28:18 AM
& FWIW,I think that stupid can be applied to both sides here.
Post by: roo_ster on June 30, 2007, 09:20:22 AM
Post by: Balog on July 01, 2007, 07:10:17 PM
Post by: El Tejon on July 02, 2007, 03:27:01 AM
Of course, this particular officer was less than professional and is in need of further training.
Post by: Nitrogen on July 02, 2007, 08:03:22 PM
No, police can use force to make an arrest and there is no requirement to treat you with kid gloves just because you are white and spoiled rotten.
Of course, this particular officer was less than professional and is in need of further training.
Of course, this particular officer was less than professional and is in need of further training.
So, would you feel alright if an officer used similar force to arrest you for speeding 10 MPH over the speed limit? Would you feel that force would still be appropriate if someone argued with the officer about the ticket?
The law they broke was about as serious as speeding.
THAT's the problem. Sure, police have the right to use force to effect an arrest, but considering the law broken, it seemed an overreaction.
Post by: El Tejon on July 03, 2007, 02:57:03 AM
Although I've been doing this a long time, I cannot get over how people react not to the evidence against them but how the police officer treated them. Must be something inherent in the human condition that people do not mind going to prison but hate being "mistreated."
"O.K., here's your video taped confession, a van load of nuns who witnessed you molest the child in the park, and your mother's statement that you are vile and should be imprisoned. I say we take the deal for 6 months house arrest."
"But that officer was very arrogant when he arrested me."
I agree that the officer was acting the fool and he let the skateboarders make him look like a bigger fool.
Post by: Harold Tuttle on July 03, 2007, 11:44:42 AM
Tuesday, July 03, 2007
E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
HOT SPRINGS, Ark. A police officer who appeared to choke a skateboarder in a video posted online has been cleared of any wrongdoing by an internal review board.
The Hot Springs Police Department Internal Affairs Board found the use of force was within the police department's policy on non-deadly force and recommended "no changes to this policy." The decision was released Monday.
Officer Joey Williams stopped a group of skateboarders June 21 on a downtown city sidewalk. Skateboarding is banned in the area.
The video shows Williams apparently choking one of the skateboarders after forcing him to the ground, then later chasing and wrestling two others while holding them in a headlock.
"This was a minimal force issue," Police Chief Bobby Southard told The Sentinel-Record. "He didn't resort to anything above hand control techniques and handcuffing."
Southard said Williams, who had been put on administrative leave, will return to bike patrol downtown Thursday. Six skateboarders two adults and four juveniles have court dates pending.
Post by: Strings on July 03, 2007, 11:51:23 AM
DINGDINGDING!!! WE HAVE A WINNAH!!!!!
I don't know the whole story behind how these folks were acting before Officer Not-So-Friendly showed up. But I HAVE seen how a lot of the 'boarders act: they don't help their own case at all. That said...
Officer NSF probably should have handled things differently. He came across VERY much as being pissed because the 'boarders didn't respect his author-i-tay. NEVER good: it often results in talks with supervisors, and complaints against the officer being filed, even though the scofflaws he was busting richly deserve to get busted. It also sends the wrong message to the public: not "Officer NSF is a professional, working hard to keep us safe" but "Wow... Officer NSF (and by extension, ALL cops) is a power-drunk bully"...