Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 22, 2007, 12:25:03 PM
Post by: Ron on August 22, 2007, 12:31:31 PM
The only handguns I shoot with any regularity are my 1911's and on occasion my GP100. To me they are like tools and they don't get babied.
Glocks are great tools.
Post by: mtnbkr on August 22, 2007, 12:32:20 PM
Chris
Post by: Paddy on August 22, 2007, 12:33:10 PM
Can you feel the force?
Post by: The Rabbi on August 22, 2007, 12:33:35 PM
Congratulations and enjoy the gun.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 22, 2007, 12:34:59 PM
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 22, 2007, 12:48:50 PM
Quote
I did it. I just bought a Glock.
HEATHEN!! BLASPHEMER!!
Brad
(psst... can I shoot it?)
Post by: mtnbkr on August 22, 2007, 12:53:25 PM
Welcome. Never again will you have to concern yourself with safeties, failure to feed, stovepiping, etc.
Can you feel the force?
Can you feel the force?
So, it's like having a revolver, but not as flexible or pretty?
Chris
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 22, 2007, 12:56:15 PM
Let's see, I'll go next. 1911s suck. Discuss.
Post by: mtnbkr on August 22, 2007, 12:59:57 PM
Chris
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 22, 2007, 01:02:58 PM
Post by: tyme on August 22, 2007, 01:27:29 PM
Quote
Welcome. Never again will you have to concern yourself with safeties, failure to feed, stovepiping, etc.
Nope, just kabooms caused by Glock's overly aggressive feed ramps.
I must restore balance to the universe by buying another P99.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on August 22, 2007, 01:36:17 PM
Welcome. Never again will you have to concern yourself with safeties, failure to feed, stovepiping, etc.
Can you feel the force?
A friend of mine was recently sworn in as a state trooper. Seems the first Glock 17 they tried to issue him wouldn't feed reliably. Can you feel the force?
This poor guy has miserably bad luck with issued sidearms. He did a tour in Iraq as a medic, and the only weapon he was allowed to carry was an issued M9 that wouldn't cycle.
He says nothing makes you feel safe and secure like a single shot 9mm on your hip...
Post by: Ron on August 22, 2007, 01:36:38 PM
Quote
Never again will you have to concern yourself with safeties, failure to feed, stovepiping, etc.
I must be lucky, my Springfield Armory TRP just keeps running and running, flawlessly, at least +20k through it now.
It broke a firing pin spring once (prolly excessive dry firing helped it along) and the extractor broke around 7k. High round count guns, even Glocks, will occasionally need springs and a small part replaced.
My RRA Commander sized 1911 has around 4K rounds through it with no failures of any kind.
Post by: Paddy on August 22, 2007, 01:38:25 PM
Quote
Nope, just kabooms caused by Glock's overly aggressive feed ramps.
Ah, the old 'Glock unsupported chamber' myth rears its ugly head again. Lookee this. What do you see?
Post by: The Rabbi on August 22, 2007, 01:39:11 PM
Welcome. Never again will you have to concern yourself with safeties, failure to feed, stovepiping, etc.
Can you feel the force?
A friend of mine was recently sworn in as a state trooper. Seems the first Glock 17 they tried to issue him wouldn't feed reliably. Can you feel the force?
This poor guy has miserably bad luck with issued sidearms. He did a tour in Iraq as a medic, and the only weapon he was allowed to carry was an issued M9 that wouldn't cycle.
Nothing makes you feel safe and secure like a single shot 9mm on your hip...
If you need more than 1 shot you're probably some place you don't need to be anyway.
Post by: Paddy on August 22, 2007, 01:48:20 PM
Quote
He did a tour in Iraq as a medic, and the only weapon he was allowed to carry was an issued M9 that wouldn't cycle.
Nothing makes you feel safe and secure like a single shot 9mm on your hip... undecided
If you need more than 1 shot you're probably some place you don't need to be anyway.
Nothing makes you feel safe and secure like a single shot 9mm on your hip... undecided
If you need more than 1 shot you're probably some place you don't need to be anyway.
I completely agree.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 22, 2007, 02:02:22 PM
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on August 22, 2007, 02:09:54 PM
He spent his entire tour in a tent, waiting for someone in his unit to get hurt. Nobody ever got hurt.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 22, 2007, 02:16:30 PM
Post by: Euclidean on August 22, 2007, 02:25:54 PM
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 22, 2007, 02:29:15 PM
Quote from: RileyMc
Ah, the old 'Glock unsupported chamber' myth rears its ugly head again. Lookee this. What do you see?
I see a photograph that, conveniently, puts the deeper slash under the Glock chamber in relative darkness to hide it.
How about some firsthand KB pics?
I was the person holding the Glock when this happened. The guy I was shooting with had the same thing happen to him a few days later.
These pics were from a rental chambered in .357 Sig. My friend's was chambered in .40 S&W. Both happened in guns using factory jacketed ammo. Both guns were clean, his because I saw him clean it and my rental because I cleaned it just prior to shooting.
I have neither experienced, nor heard of a first-hand account, of a 9mm KB in a Glock.
Post by: Barbara on August 22, 2007, 02:47:56 PM
I ditched a Sig for my 19.
I blame Oleg. I'd never considered it until I shot his 17. Came home and got mine about 2 weeks later.
Post by: longeyes on August 22, 2007, 03:13:05 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on August 22, 2007, 03:51:57 PM
I can go you one better/worse.
I ditched a Sig for my 19.
I blame Oleg. I'd never considered it until I shot his 17. Came home and got mine about 2 weeks later.
I knew there was a reason I didn't trust you...
I ditched a Sig for my 19.
I blame Oleg. I'd never considered it until I shot his 17. Came home and got mine about 2 weeks later.
Post by: Gewehr98 on August 22, 2007, 08:30:43 PM
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
Wish I'd known folks were hot for Glock 17s. I sold mine some time ago, plus several full-capacity magazines. It bulged the brass something fierce, and scared the poop outta me.
Luckily, the Glockumcision was reversible, and I used the money to buy another 1911.
Post by: Paddy on August 23, 2007, 05:56:39 AM
Quote
I see a photograph that, conveniently, puts the deeper slash under the Glock chamber in relative darkness to hide it.
Curses! My sinister plan to foist off the defective Glock on mankind has been uncovered. So I'll just quote Tamara from TFL:
They're made of papier-mache and moonbeams and are known to detonate when looked at cross-eyed.
Post by: Paddy on August 23, 2007, 06:05:31 AM
cropped, enlarged, brightened:
Maybe Gewehr or somebody with some photo adjusting capabilities could take those photos and brighten/sharpen them to expose the Glock unsupported chamber. Better yet, maybe somebody could (honestly) measure one relative to other pistols?
Here's another photo:
Post by: Manedwolf on August 23, 2007, 06:16:17 AM
If I was to buy any hyped gun, it'd probably be a SIG. Also because if anything goes wrong with it, I can just drive to Exeter and say "FIX!"
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 23, 2007, 06:54:46 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 23, 2007, 08:57:57 AM
Quote
Better yet, maybe somebody could (honestly) measure one relative to other pistols?
Been done. It's only a few hundreths of an inch, but it makes the diff. The tradeoff is the almost legendary feeding reliability of Gaston's creation. Life ain't perfect, I guess. At least the KBs are almost nil now that most ammo makers have quietly added a bit of material to the case heads on their .40 and .357 Sig brass.
Brad
Post by: Gewehr98 on August 23, 2007, 09:59:49 AM
Depending on when your Glock was produced, you may or may not be able to show pictures of a fully-supported chamber. My G17 was of the older style, and I wouldn't even let folks reload my once-fired brass. I crushed it with my Leatherman tool before putting it in the brass bin.
Post by: K Frame on August 23, 2007, 11:44:44 AM
I personally witnessed, or saw the immediate aftermath, of at least 7 .40 Glock kabooms in the early to mid 1990s.
The Glock had a larger than normal unsupported area around the case head on the .40 caliber guns, and combined with the manufacturing and loading specifications of the cartridge, a reloaded cartridge was FAR more prone to suffer a kaboom in a Glock, especially if the shooter pushed the upper end of the loading data with slower burning powders.
In the years since then, I have seen but one Glock kaboom, about 3 years ago, and it was with an older, unmodified gun with a serial number that would have put production in the early 1990s.
Post by: Paddy on August 27, 2007, 03:38:50 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 27, 2007, 03:41:42 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 27, 2007, 05:39:27 PM
So, the 'unsupported chamber' hasn't been a problem since 1993, yet the hysteria continues. OK.
Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem.
Post by: jeepmor on August 27, 2007, 06:16:13 PM
Post by: Euclidean on August 27, 2007, 06:32:59 PM
Post by: never_retreat on August 27, 2007, 07:21:33 PM
Post by: Paddy on August 27, 2007, 07:36:18 PM
Quote
Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem.
Well, if it's 14 years old and hasn't kb'd yet..............I'd say it's not a 'problem'.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 27, 2007, 07:45:13 PM
You're probably right that the "hysteria" may be overblown. But it is good that the word is still getting out about the old Glocks.
Post by: Ezekiel on August 27, 2007, 08:02:41 PM
Sent it back to Glock a year ago for refurb, just because.
I've had no issues: but I only carried +P+ for duty, lots of .230 grain hardball (training), otherwise.
Post by: longeyes on August 28, 2007, 02:41:11 PM
No. Reloads.
I'll risk a ka-boom with my G17 against a jam at the wrong time with something else.
Post by: El Tejon on August 29, 2007, 06:24:49 AM
Funny, I sold guns in the late 80s, early 90s, when the G22s came out we had complaints of kabooms and now in 2006 we have complaints of kabooms with the Glock for-tay.
More things change, more they stay the same.
Glock 17 is a wonderful weapon. I do not understand the obession to fiddle with the design, but then I'm not a gun nut, I'm just a shooter.
Post by: Paddy on August 29, 2007, 06:41:39 AM
In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was THE pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
2 And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
3 And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
4 Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.
5 And lo, they didst install adjustable sights , which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
6 And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunctions to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
7 Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
8 And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
9 And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both * and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.
10 But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger * ing pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
11 And when man had been totally ensnared with the plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-Boom to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
12 Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.
13 And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil spirits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 29, 2007, 07:49:21 AM
Brad
Post by: Gewehr98 on August 29, 2007, 07:54:19 AM
There's a metric assload of those things out there that were sold over the years before the cluebird smacked Glock, and they don't need reloads to kaboom. See Dean Speir's site.
Post by: K Frame on August 29, 2007, 08:34:52 AM
Quote
Good point, but there must still be a lot of older Glocks out there, who still have that problem.
Well, if it's 14 years old and hasn't kb'd yet..............I'd say it's not a 'problem'.
I'd say that that assumption is 100% WRONG.
If someone owns an older Glock .40 and has shot nothing but factory ammo through it, they very likely have never experienced a kaboom even though there are reports of a few KBs with factory new ammo.
If, however, due to the recent spike in ammo prices they decide to start saving their cases and get into reloading, the probability of their having a kaboom has just increased dramatically.
Post by: Paddy on August 29, 2007, 09:37:30 AM
Quote
If someone owns an older Glock .40 and has shot nothing but factory ammo through it, they very likely have never experienced a kaboom even though there are reports of a few KBs with factory new ammo.
If, however, due to the recent spike in ammo prices they decide to start saving their cases and get into reloading, the probability of their having a kaboom has just increased dramatically.
If, however, due to the recent spike in ammo prices they decide to start saving their cases and get into reloading, the probability of their having a kaboom has just increased dramatically.
So the 'problem' is only with the .40 Short & Weak? And only before 1993? So how did the hysteria extend to [All] Glocks kb; they are virtual hand grenades which will fire out of battery, etc., et yada....
Glock advises using only factory ammo; no reloads. And jacketed bullets only; the polygonal rifling apparently leads up quickly, increasing pressure. So if someone feeds their old Glock .40 reloads when everybody knows it's a no-no, I'd say you have an operator/ammo failure, not a firearm failure.
It's basic and axiomatic- you must use the correct ammunition in your firearm.
Post by: Gewehr98 on August 29, 2007, 08:39:02 PM
No, the 9mm Glocks kaboomed, too. My G17 was scary in how badly it bulged the brass. See Dean Speir's website for photos of similar loose chambers.
My take on Glock is that in their efforts to assure slick feeding, they cut corners so badly, and delivered a product with such piss-poor tolerances that it cannot handle the handloaded brass that any other handgun would eat with nary a hiccup. So they cover their posteriors with a blanket no-handloads caveat. Nice.
Now, I'm speaking from anecdotal experience here, about 30 handguns in Casa de' G-98, with only about 100K handloaded rounds through them all, thanks to my IPSC/USPSA and IHMSA days. My G17 was the only gun that really scared me with the bulging of the fired brass, be it new factory ammo or my handloads. My .357 Magnum Desert Eagle treats its brass much better, and it runs considerably higher pressures than a 9mm ever would.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 29, 2007, 08:43:44 PM
Post by: Gewehr98 on August 29, 2007, 08:52:16 PM
Riley would say it's just a figment of your imagination, anyway.
Post by: Paddy on August 30, 2007, 07:22:33 AM
Quote
I'll be sure to let you all know if my brass bulges or the gun explodes in my fist.
We'll just call ya 'Captain Hook' as you join the thousands of others who've lost fingers and hands.......
oh, wait. That didn't happen either.
Anyone who's worried can easily replace the barrel with an aftermarket drop-in for about $100. I'll just keep shooting my factory original G17, thanks.
Post by: K Frame on August 30, 2007, 07:33:06 AM
How does ANY rumor get started?
Part of it is fomented by people misunderstanding what they've heard, from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend.
I also have absolutely NO doubt that a lot of it was spread by the true Glock Haters, people who are so offended at the thought of a polymer gun actually gaining public acceptance that they will stoop to any level, repeat any lie, cast any aspersion, necessary to make them feel as if they are doing their part of saving (pick any that apply) the American gun industry, steel guns, the 1911-A1 (God's own handgun), etc.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 30, 2007, 08:50:27 AM
Post by: K Frame on August 30, 2007, 08:51:34 AM
Horror of horrors, I actually chose my Glock _over_ a 1911. It was the G17, or a Rock Island 1911.
You are, according to some, to be stripped naked, dropped in the woods, and hunted for sport.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 30, 2007, 08:57:06 AM
In all reality, I love the 1911 platform. I shoot it better than any other, but at this point, I wanted a service sized handgun that I know will be reliable, and that I won't have to fiddle with to make work. Someday when I can afford it, a nice 1911 would be great to have.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on August 30, 2007, 09:47:57 AM
I'll be shooting back with my Glock
Quick Mike, add "unarmed" to the list.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 30, 2007, 09:50:45 AM
You'll have to chase down a naked fat man armed with a glock!
Post by: Matthew Carberry on August 30, 2007, 09:54:05 AM
Too late!
You'll have to chase down a naked fat man armed with a glock!
You'll have to chase down a naked fat man armed with a glock!
Thus offering two reasons for not chasing very close nor with much desire to actually catch.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 30, 2007, 09:57:08 AM
Post by: Paddy on August 30, 2007, 10:13:22 AM
Since you don't seem to be risk averse, you have another choice. The Beretta M9 (civilian version Beretta 92). But be warned, the slides on these pistols break in half, flying back at the shooter killing/maiming him. A bunch of navy seals have been decapitated by this pistol. It's so widespread there's even a saying "You're not a Navy SEAL 'til you eat Italian steel"
I know it's true, I heard it on the internets.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on August 30, 2007, 10:15:06 AM
I'd love to have a 92 though. It's a beautiful pistol.
Post by: Paddy on August 30, 2007, 10:23:33 AM
I know it's true I heard it on the internets.
Post by: Pew pew pew on August 30, 2007, 11:05:14 AM
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 30, 2007, 11:23:00 AM
I like my Glock 19. My Glock 19 shoots well. I hugs it.
Mmmmyyyyy precioussssssssssssss
Brad
Post by: K Frame on August 30, 2007, 11:29:54 AM
Dude, naked means exactly that.
Absolutely nothing on you OR in you.
Post by: mtnbkr on August 30, 2007, 11:37:55 AM
Chris
Post by: Brad Johnson on August 30, 2007, 11:39:36 AM
Are we going to resurrect this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=19897&highlight=nudist
Chris
Chris
Lord, I hope not.
Brad
Post by: Pew pew pew on August 30, 2007, 11:40:40 AM
Are we going to resurrect this thread: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=19897&highlight=nudist
Chris
Chris
That was an EPIC thread.
Post by: Matthew Carberry on August 30, 2007, 04:45:21 PM
I like my Glock 19. My Glock 19 shoots well. I hugs it.
Handloads. Can't has. Not yours.
Post by: Michigander on August 31, 2007, 01:48:18 AM
Am I correct to see that the black barrel is the Glock? What is the other one?
Would I be correct to think that the tapered slope (feed ramp), which apparently allows for smooth feeding, is where the casing kB's because there is so little support there? Is that the (alleged) issue?
If so, I can see why the other barrel is a much more robust design and the very little side wall of the casing that is not supported would probably never have a chance to kB. Is this right?
Is there any verified account of this problem ever occurring with factory loads?
If you could clarify, please do.
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 31, 2007, 01:51:26 AM
Post by: Michigander on August 31, 2007, 01:52:25 AM
Michigander, all you need to know is that the Glock is a gun designed, built and used by Euro-weenies and by timid American perverts. God hates plastic guns made in Europe.
Lends more credence to the phrase, "Six for sure!"
Post by: LadySmith on August 31, 2007, 02:26:50 AM
Post by: Jamisjockey on August 31, 2007, 03:26:14 AM
I was just in a local gunshop. Very 'tactical' place, catering to LEO's and wannabes. But holy scnickes, thier prices on Glocks and Springfields! I want an XD45. Badly. They have them, 4" OD green/black (which would match my kel-tec...very metrosexual!)....$515! They had the tan furniture with a 'tactical' kit....good light, paddle holster and some other stuff for 650...(house special they called it).
If I didn't have a fishing trip planned in two weeks....shyte I'd be getting me a new gun!
Post by: K Frame on August 31, 2007, 05:11:09 AM
Which gunshop?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 06, 2007, 12:07:26 PM
Post by: Jamisjockey on September 06, 2007, 12:14:23 PM
Jamis,
Which gunshop?
Which gunshop?
Sorry I didn't notify on this topic.....
It was Quantico Arms in Hoodbridge. Lots of tac gear, holsters, etc etc. A full selection of Glocks and XDS. Only 4 wheelguns. They are all kinds of tacticool!
Not to veer off wildly into "I just had a couple glasses of wine-land", but even though I'm making fun of thier tactical-cool-ness, I liked the shop. I was immediately greeted in a friendly fashion, shown whatever I wanted, and treated like I was buying a new AR15, when all I bought was a couple boxes of .380HP.
Post by: K Frame on September 07, 2007, 08:00:24 AM