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Main Forums => The Roundtable => Topic started by: Brad Johnson on October 15, 2007, 10:41:54 AM

Title: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 15, 2007, 10:41:54 AM
I was just cruising ebay and, on a whim, checked what I could buy my Canon Elan IIe for now.  Keep in mind that this was a $700 camera when I bought it back in the mid 90's.  It was the "semi-pro" SLR in the Canon line. 

Now they go for twenty five bucks.  Gag.   sad  It almost costs that much to ship the dang thing.

A rough-but-functional Pentax K1000 still commands $70 or $80.  Heck, even the cheapo POS 300mm Sigma lens I bought for the Canon is worth more than the Elan body is now.

Brad
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Manedwolf on October 15, 2007, 10:46:15 AM
Lenses have maintained value because they can be used on new digital SLRs. I have an adapter ring, for example, that lets me use all Olympus OM-series lenses on my Olympus Evolt E-500, which is a 4:3s lens connector instead.

Really, the only film cameras that have kept extremely high value are the extremely high-end ones like the Speed Graphic, which still isn't matched by digital for some applications.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 15, 2007, 10:57:51 AM
If Hasselblad prices would drop, I would be a happy man.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 15, 2007, 11:05:41 AM
Even some large format cameras have come down in price, but not as much as the 35mm stuff.  I shoot exclusively film and have no desire to move to digital other than the convenience factor.  However, once I factor the price of buying a decent digital camera, I can feed my film cameras for at least a year, so why bother...

I have a Nikon N80 and Olympus OM-1md.  I love the Om-1, but the Nikon is more practical.

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 15, 2007, 11:12:15 AM
I'm going to buy a 5D this week (unless I find out the rebates kick in soon).

I don't have a place for a darkroom and scanning film is a nightmare. Keeping the film cameras around for when I want them, though.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 15, 2007, 11:16:05 AM
We scan all of our prints.  We get good quality scanning 4x6 prints at the scanner's middle resolution.  It's just a n $80 Canon LiDE scanner. 

One thing I like about this method is that I'm left with 3 copies of the pic: Negative, Print, Digital.

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Sergeant Bob on October 15, 2007, 11:48:55 AM
We scan all of our prints.  We get good quality scanning 4x6 prints at the scanner's middle resolution.  It's just a n $80 Canon LiDE scanner. 

One thing I like about this method is that I'm left with 3 copies of the pic: Negative, Print, Digital.

Chris

Its a very good idea to scan all your important pictures. My sister had a large box of old family photos which got lost in a fire. I also keep my negatives in a fire safe.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: charby on October 15, 2007, 12:07:14 PM
I bought a Kodak DC260 for $5 on Ebay last summer, cost $10 to ship.

I forgot how much the thing weighed when I took it on a trip. They sure were cool back in the late 1990's

Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: zahc on October 15, 2007, 01:17:47 PM
Where do camera people get their film developed? Just walmart or similar, or are there 'better' places to drop your film?
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 15, 2007, 01:22:49 PM
Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens, etc still do film.  For more money, and sometimes (not always) better results, there are the various camera shops.  We have Penn Camera and Ritz Camera in this area (with Penn being the better of the two).  Most 35mm color print stuff is done by machine, so as long as the machine is maintained, there isn't much difference between the various places.  I've been perfectly happy with Wal-Mart's 2-day service, but I avoid their 1hr service because I almost always get a scratched negative.  Places like Penn are more likely to have skilled and dedicated staff develop your film, but the difference isn't as noticeable with color print stuff IMO.

If you're really serious, there are some high end shops that do film, but it costs a lot more.  The upside is your prints get more attention.

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: charby on October 15, 2007, 01:23:25 PM
Where do camera people get their film developed? Just walmart or similar, or are there 'better' places to drop your film?

My wife drops her film off at Walgreens, we just shoot snapshots.

-C
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 15, 2007, 01:28:23 PM
The cost of film and developing is why my Elan now sleeps on the top shelf of my closet.  I figure it took me about two years shooting digital to pay for my D-Reb.  Plus, I can shoot with abandon, not worrying about how much it's going to cost to find out if the pictures will turn out or not.  A side benefit is the instant feedback of digital has made me a far better photographer in a shorter (and cheaper) amount of time than I could have with film.

Brad
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 15, 2007, 01:48:45 PM
I bought myself a Rollieflex off ebay a about a year ago.  $150 for a wickedly cool, remarkably functional camera that was built when my grandparents were young.  I like working with it because it's an incredible machine, and because it engenders a different sort of photography.  It also lets me dabble in film development and other darkroom tasks.  Plus medium format slides are, like, totally radical, dude.

For serious photography I grab the dslr.  But for fun, the Rollei is hard to beat.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Manedwolf on October 15, 2007, 02:10:19 PM
Even B&W dramatic stuff can be done with good digital SLRs. Just have one that can use RAW, and then throw out channels in Photoshop.

Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 15, 2007, 02:22:18 PM
Who sez ya hafta use RAW?    grin

In-camera conversion to .jpg and some contrast tweaks in Elements.


Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: thebaldguy on October 15, 2007, 03:06:12 PM
I bought my girlfriend a very nice Canon 35 SLR for a birthday present years ago. It was just under $400.00 in the summer of 2002. I wonder how many of these are around anymore. I don't see many around. She used it quite a bit for a couple years (12-15 rolls per year), then use dropped when we bought a digital camera.

The 35MM film camera sits in the safe, along with my compact Olympus 35MM from 1983, and her 1990 autofocus budget zoom Vivitar 35MM. We took the big slr along on a recent trip to Chicago, but neither of us wanted to lug the camera and bag around. It's back in the safe.

We throw the digital pics on a computer and/or disk. Print them as we want on nice photo paper.

I've seen the one hour photo places closing up now also.

I like having a decent digital camera that fits into a pocket.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 15, 2007, 03:39:15 PM
I send most of my film to a pro lab in Dallas (BWC) - not horribly expensive, but turnaround can be slow. Digital has mostly replaced color 35mm for me - film is for traditional B&W and larger formats.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Standing Wolf on October 15, 2007, 03:48:29 PM
Film?

Oh. I remember, now.

Sorry.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Harold Tuttle on October 15, 2007, 04:05:29 PM
try to get a real B&W contact sheet from a lab

film is dead
You can't even get it at Costco anymore
They used to have skids of this really nice 400 Agfa film
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 15, 2007, 04:12:54 PM
www.mylab.com - ~$12 for processing and a contact sheet. There should be a pro lab near any reasonably large city that would be about the same. Throw in another $3.75 for a roll of Tri-X or HP5.

I've been meaning to experiment with scanning for contact sheets, but I don't have a flatbed scanner that will take a full sheet at once.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 15, 2007, 04:14:17 PM
If you go to a real photo lab you can get contact sheets or whatever you like.  The key is to find a real photo lab.  Look for the place all the local wedding photographers and portrait photographers take their stuff.  If you're in Wally World or Walgreens, you're in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: 280plus on October 15, 2007, 04:15:31 PM
Wonder what the Leica and accessories are worth. I know I don't have the capabilities to use the camera to it's fullest extent and I feel like I'm depriving someone that could by just letting it sit. It's kinda like I have a champagne camera and beer abilities.  laugh
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 15, 2007, 04:22:45 PM
I could sell my M7 for ~$1700 (paid that much almost four years ago). My 35mm Summilux has actually increased in price - I paid $1000 from a Canadian photographer when the C$ was weak - I figure I could get $1500-1700 for it now.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 15, 2007, 04:45:04 PM
try to get a real B&W contact sheet from a lab

I'll let you know Friday when I pick up my B&W film from Penn.  I dropped off 3 rolls for developing and contact sheet rather than prints since two of the rolls sat for a year (got misplaced) and the other was Tri-X 400 pushed to 3200 (in a camera that only goes up to 1600, so I had to manually calculate the exposure).

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Bogie on October 15, 2007, 06:54:34 PM
Just remember - if you wanna see just how much you can blow something up...

www.creativeaccuracy.com

Musta passed out 2-300 business cards at Knob Creek...
 
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Parker Dean on October 15, 2007, 07:44:42 PM
A rough-but-functional Pentax K1000 still commands $70 or $80. 

Huh. Who'd a thunk that a cheap mass market camera would hold its price like that.

Not that I'd sell mine, it's sorta become on of those things that are part of the story of my (boring) life. It'll probably join the accumulated junk like the Karate Kid style head band given me at a going-away party by co-workers, the security officer badges and pins from when I was an armed courier, etc.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Paddy on October 15, 2007, 08:13:10 PM
New technology depreciates rapidly, Brad.  The best strategy (for me, anyway)  is to buy just behind, or even two generations behind, the latest and greatest.  Low price + (almost) state of the art.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on October 16, 2007, 03:32:29 AM
The old mechanical all manual SLRS are great cameras.  They do one thing the modern automagical cameras just don't do: they make setting the aperture, shutter speed, and focal distance easy.  And since the only camera settings that affect a picture are the aperture, shutter speed and focal distance, lots of folks find the old gear to be easier to use than the new stuff.  Plus the old equipment was also made well enough that it'll never wear out.

Good tools never lose value.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 16, 2007, 03:58:52 AM
The only reason I switched from mechanical to auto-everything SLRs was because I couldn't keep up with my daughter.  Otherwise, I'm happy with mechanical cameras.  I like my Olympus OM-1 so much I had it overhauled a couple years ago.  It cost me more than buying another used one, but I should be in good shape for the next decade at least.  I mainly use it for B&W film, which I bulk load myself, but I'll sometimes put a roll of color through it as well.  I wish it had film speed settings up to 3200 because I like to play with fast film in ambient light. 

I took this picture of my daughter and godson at a childrens' "hands on" museum in Virginia Beach last year.  It was with Fuji ASA 400 print film, handheld with a very slow shutter and mostly open aperture in natural light.  The camera was the OM-1 with Zuiko 50mm F1.8 lens.  The picture isn't technically perfect, but I like how the lighting and colors turned out.  Unfortunately, I couldn't get my daughter to turn around.  rolleyes



Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 16, 2007, 04:01:18 AM
For you users of classic cameras, this is a neat site: http://www.cameraleather.com/

I've had the "black lizard" leather on my black Olympus for nearly 7 years now and it's holding up very well.

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Manedwolf on October 16, 2007, 04:06:55 AM
One of the thing I like about Olympus is that they kept the "look" of their classic 35mms with their digital SLRs. Even the bezel above the lens and the OLYMPUS font are the same as an early 80's OM series.  smiley

Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mfree on October 16, 2007, 04:27:13 AM
"and then throw out channels in Photoshop"

Hrmm. Might be a bit more accurate to play with the channels just a bit to enhance green, then drop the channels.

IIRC old B&W stocks were much more sensitive to green than any other wavelength.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Bogie on October 16, 2007, 04:35:16 AM
Let's not discount the folks who think that....

1) When the fill a chip up, they need to go buy a new one
 
2) They need to take their camera to Wal-Mart or Walgreens to get the pictures "developed"

There be some true geniuses out there...

Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Harold Tuttle on October 16, 2007, 04:42:09 AM
double check to see if that "contact sheet"
was made by printing all the frames and developing the sheet

or is it a digital scan and an ink jet?
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 16, 2007, 05:12:43 AM
I'll find out when I pick it up.  They call it a contact sheet, not thumbnails or anything like that.  Doesn't matter to me though, I mainly need it to determine which negs are worth printing.

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: zahc on October 16, 2007, 07:22:25 AM
Quote
The best strategy (for me, anyway)  is to buy just behind, or even two generations behind, the latest and greatest.  Low price + (almost) state of the art.

Like how you can sometimes buy a practically new vinyl turntable at a garage sale for $20 that some mid 70s audiophile spent $600 on, that still does what it was designed to do very, very well and will probably continue to for decades.

It seems like now, tech moves so fast, nobody makes really good tools. Cellphones have a 1.5 year design life. About the only thing I can think of is appliances and hobbyist stuff.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Bogie on October 16, 2007, 09:30:39 AM
Don't knock inkjets... Unless you go to a VERY specialty lab these days, you are getting inkjet.

And you generally aren't going to be able to tell the difference.
 
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 16, 2007, 09:35:38 AM
I just checked Penn's site, it is a digital inkjet print.  Doesn't matter, for my needs it's perfectly adequate.  I'll use it to pick shots for traditional printing (assuming I have any rolleyes).

Chris
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 16, 2007, 11:25:07 AM
BWC gives you the option of chemistry or inkjet, I believe. I never requested it either way, but all of mine seem to be chemistry.

mylab.com - I've used a couple of times, mentioned earlier - is all-chemistry.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 16, 2007, 11:26:22 AM
I was browsing for used gear last night from KEH and suddenly found myself desiring a Contax RX - mid-90s manual-focus SLR with Zeiss-designed lenses. $650 for a  body and 50/1.4 lens. So tempting, if I didn't have a $900 CMP Garand coming pretty soon.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 16, 2007, 11:28:03 AM
I thought many of the commercial digital systems were dye sublimation with a clear laminate as a protective surface.  Not correct?

Brad
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: Harold Tuttle on October 16, 2007, 12:03:46 PM
the beauty of a chemistry contact sheet is you could have 3 different brackets and request they expose for each one
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: wooderson on October 16, 2007, 12:12:18 PM
three new toys arrived in the mail today -
a Kodak Retinette 1A - no meter, no rangefinder, no nothing but a lens that's clear and a shutter that works for $9
a pair of Polaroid SX-70s from the mid-70s - one that takes the original SX-70 film (which is currently $2 a shot, so this one's mostly going to be a decoration), one that takes current 600/779 film

last week I got a Canonet rangefinder for $30 and I have two 1950s Agfa cameras coming from the Netherlands

Digital has advantages, but every time I try to get serious with it I find that it lacks the magic of film.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: brimic on October 16, 2007, 04:45:00 PM
Don't know much about 'real cameras' but I paid about $600 for my then nifty 3.2 megapixel Sony camera 5 years ago. You couldn't give one of those away now.
Title: Re: Camera prices - depressing
Post by: mtnbkr on October 16, 2007, 05:15:41 PM
the beauty of a chemistry contact sheet is you could have 3 different brackets and request they expose for each one

True, but I'm not doing that kind of work.  If I was, I'd find a different lab regardless of the contact sheet issue.

Chris