Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 22, 2007, 10:40:02 AM
Post by: ilbob on October 22, 2007, 11:15:44 AM
Post by: Sergeant Bob on October 22, 2007, 11:34:23 AM
If you could you would be better off getting yourself back into shape before you go. However, I'm sure there are a lot of guys who started out in worse shape than you and still made it. If you are determined, you can do it.
Post by: Bogie on October 22, 2007, 12:13:46 PM
Second question: WHAT are you looking to gain from the experience?
Third question: WHAT do you think military life is like?
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 22, 2007, 12:57:44 PM
First question: WHY are you going in the Army?
Second question: WHAT are you looking to gain from the experience?
Third question: WHAT do you think military life is like?
Second question: WHAT are you looking to gain from the experience?
Third question: WHAT do you think military life is like?
I am joining because I am 25,I have no kids/wife to support.I do not own a home and do not have many financial obligations.My job will be waiting for me when I get out and If it isnt I can get one just like it.I am not doing anything right now that is so important that I cant go into the army and do my part.If we were not at war and not stretched thin then I wouldnt be interested.I make decent money and I enjoy my life.
I am not really trying to gain anything. "Ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country"
I am undecided on if this is a just war or not but that is not the point.I would like to think that by doing my part just maybe a fellow american(more then likely a 20 year old kid who has been over there for 15 months)may get to go homefor a while.Hopefully as a after thought I might get some positive things like seeing other parts of the world,making new friends,and improving myself as a person but thats just what they are,after thoughts.
I think military life will probably be alot more structured then my currnet way of living and alot more work but I grew up in some of the most structured and hard living group homes/placements when I was a kid and I survived and flourished so I am confident that I will be fine.
anyone have thoughts on 11x,11b,11c ?
Post by: thebaldguy on October 22, 2007, 02:14:27 PM
Give your choice of joining the military some serious thought. This is not something to be taken lightly. I'm guessing this mess in the Middle East will be going on for a long time to come. You may find yourself extended way past your exit date.
Talk with some people who have left the military recently. Ask them why they left, think about it before you go.
Post by: Bogie on October 22, 2007, 02:36:24 PM
And don't let the enlistment bonus thing throw you. I'd rather have a job skill that's worth an extra $20K/year on top of what you're making now when I'd get out than have a $20K one-time enlistment bonus.
Personally, I wish they took back old fat guys with bad knees... I was 71Q, and a darn good one... When I was a kid, I wanted to be Ernie Pyle...
Post by: Balog on October 22, 2007, 03:37:28 PM
Quote from: Bogie
11-bang-bang is NOT a civilian job skill
Amen. I was a grunt, albeit in the Marines. Unless you plan on being a mercenary ie contract security, it does nothing for you after you get out. And it will destroy your body. Even 18 y/o's who played sports and are in great shape leave with bad knees, bad backs etc. God didn't intend us to strap 60-80 lbs of gear on and do wind sprints, or take a knee and stay in that position for a couple hours. I did both in Iraq a lot; it sucked.
How dedicated are you to killing bad guys as opposed to just serving? Consider being a tanker. Just as much fun playing with boomy-ness, less getting killed. Still not useful in the real world tho. Comm guys often end up in grunt units and they get clearances. Medics are beloved and no matter what you end up doing you can say you helped save lives. And it's about the most directly relevant to a civilian career. Think about being a medic.
Or a corpsman in the Navy. Not slamming the dog-faces, but you're a lot better off in combat surrounded by Marines. I lost count of how many 'terps we had who refused to work with the Army; they knew they weren't as safe as with us.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 22, 2007, 04:21:48 PM
Post by: Bogie on October 22, 2007, 05:16:57 PM
Post by: Thor on October 22, 2007, 05:50:00 PM
Bogie, your attitude disappoints me. I've run across people I've recruited while back in the fleet. None of them wanted to kick my butt or had any ill feelings towards me.
Post by: Chris on October 22, 2007, 06:18:11 PM
As to the military question, I'm former Army, a vet of the Cold War, which means I shot a lot of paper, plastic, and lasers at OpFor in war games. I have to say ditto on the job skills. No one can play combat soldier forever. And, when all is said and done, you'll still need a paycheck on the other side...
Post by: Bogie on October 22, 2007, 06:22:30 PM
Maybe YOU were ethical, but there are a lot out there who aren't...
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 22, 2007, 09:18:25 PM
31 pushups in 2 minutes.43 sit ups in 2 minutes and a 2 mile run under 17:30.even though this is the min to get out of boot camp I can do the pushup and situp min right now.The 2 mile run is the only thing that I couldnt pass right now.So I am not as worried as I was.I am going to be on the battle field in one form or another.I am just not sure of the mos 11b,11c,11x.Field Artillery looks interesting and so does armor.
Post by: Bogie on October 22, 2007, 09:41:06 PM
My father credits the Red Ball Express with winning WWII... And I think he's right. The supply chain, or the communications chain, is what is going to win this one. Get your head wrapped around that, and you'll end up as one of the heroes. Maybe not one with dusty boots, but a hero nonetheless. Use your skills. Use your talents.
Post by: Leatherneck on October 23, 2007, 03:00:22 AM
That said, I wonder if the past problems you alluded to might inhibit your progress in those high-tech fields. Maybe you should look a little deeper into what clearances you could eventually get.
Congratulations and thank you for wanting to serve.
TC
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 23, 2007, 08:53:11 AM
As far as the job I understand what you guys are saying and I am putting it to thought.I say this to be honest and I truely do not want to come of cocky but I am a smart guy.The only reason I only scored a 80 on my asvab is because I havent studied or used any type of math at all in the last 9 years and there was a good amount of math in the asvab.I am kind of kicking myself for not spending afew hours go over math before hand like basic algebra and percentage conversions.I maxed out afew other subjects which helped me out alot.lol.The wierd thing is I tested at college level for almost everything when I was like 15 but My spelling was at a 8th grade level and probably still is.Go figure at how the mind works.I will have to look into security clearences and how they work in a little more depth.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on October 23, 2007, 08:55:41 AM
Good for you Kali, it sounds like you have your head on straight and boot camp should not be a problem for you. It should be an experience you won't regret and will benefit you in ways beyond whatever your particular training provides.
Post by: Bogie on October 23, 2007, 09:30:01 AM
We've got a high-tech army now. Your skills can take you far. Or you can put 'em on the shelf, and dig holes and paint rocks. Your choice.
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 23, 2007, 10:15:34 AM
First question: WHY are you going in the Army?
No kidding. Why do that to yourself? Go into the service with a true warrior culture, from the ground up.Be successful. Then in life, when you tell people what you did, they suddenly are more impressed by you. They will introduce you to people and tell them what you did. I've never met people and had them introduced "This is Joe, he was in the Army"
http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true
You can thank me later.
As far as your weight, you have to continue to exercise while you diet, otherwise you will just get skinny.
Post by: The Viking on October 23, 2007, 10:27:23 AM
First question: WHY are you going in the Army?
No kidding. Why do that to yourself? Go into the service with a true warrior culture, from the ground up.Be successful. Then in life, when you tell people what you did, they suddenly are more impressed by you. They will introduce you to people and tell them what you did. I've never met people and had them introduced "This is Joe, he was in the Army"
http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true
You can thank me later.
As far as your weight, you have to continue to exercise while you diet, otherwise you will just get skinny.
Post by: Thor on October 23, 2007, 10:38:14 AM
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 23, 2007, 12:26:37 PM
First question: WHY are you going in the Army?
No kidding. Why do that to yourself? Go into the service with a true warrior culture, from the ground up.Be successful. Then in life, when you tell people what you did, they suddenly are more impressed by you. They will introduce you to people and tell them what you did. I've never met people and had them introduced "This is Joe, he was in the Army"
http://www.marines.com/page/usmc.jsp?flashRedirect=true
You can thank me later.
As far as your weight, you have to continue to exercise while you diet, otherwise you will just get skinny.
Do I need to repeat the part where I say that I am serving to serve not have every one tell me how cool I am for being a marine or in the service.I would have liked to join the marines but its not in the cards and I dont feel all that bad about being a soldier instead.In fact so far I like the attitudes of the army vets I talk to more then the marines.If anything the fact that the army has been deploying for 15 months at a time as compared to what? 7 months for the marines?shows that the army does its part as well.
How can I prevent the protein from showing?drink alot of water?slow the weight cut down towards the end?
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 23, 2007, 12:54:15 PM
Interservice rivalry is much like who went to the best college. Each service has its pros and cons. I just like pushing my alma mater...
Post by: wooderson on October 23, 2007, 01:00:21 PM
Quote
If you told Navy personnel to "secure a building," they would turn off the lights and lock the doors.
Army personnel would occupy the building and post sentries so no one could enter.
Marines would assault the building, capture it, and defend it with suppressive fire and close combat.
Air Force personnel would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy.
Army personnel would occupy the building and post sentries so no one could enter.
Marines would assault the building, capture it, and defend it with suppressive fire and close combat.
Air Force personnel would take out a three-year lease with an option to buy.
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 23, 2007, 01:03:24 PM
Post by: Thor on October 23, 2007, 07:46:05 PM
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 24, 2007, 02:42:00 AM
Marines are just Sailors that have pretty uniforms !!
Sailors are quite tough until they break a nail.
Post by: Phantom Warrior on October 24, 2007, 08:44:18 AM
While you are in the whole recruiting/MEPS stage I would seriously recommend the About.com website on the military here. I used it heavily when I was looking at joining the Army. It will give you a lot of details on the recruiting process, MOSs, basic training, life in the Army, and so on. Pretty much anything you can think to ask.
I concur with everyone else who has said look at something besides Infantry. Most of the time it's very, very boring. If you like to shoot or whatever, the Army isn't the place for it. Most ranges will consist of you getting up really, really early to draw weapons, being giving a set amount of ammo to go through the range (qualify, familiarization, MOUT range, whatever), and then you are done and you have to sit around and wait for everyone else to finish. All while wearing an IBA (vest), Kevlar, eye protection, gloves, knees pads, and so on. And ranges are pretty rare unless you are in the field or something.
Unless you are at a range you are probably doing something silly. Painting, picking up trash, sweeping the motor pool, organizing a shed, or whatever. Or just sitting around way after 17:00 because no one will send you home.
If that doesn't dissuade you, I don't think 11B/11C is up to you. I chose to go Infantry (silly me) and just got put down as an 11X. No one asked me. We just got told at basic, "You all are 11Bs." It really makes no difference. We had a couple National Guard 11Cs in our platoon and they did exactly the same training as us, except for a week of learning to set up a mortar tube. Here in Iraq, our Mortar Platoon is being used as a regular line platoon. I think the only 11Cs actually shooting mortars are people working for brigade.
Regarding the APFT, I really wouldn't be worried. We had some extremely overweight and out of shape people in our company and they all passed. You will become much more fit during basic and it's extremely hard to fail basic. Trust me. I think we had one guy (out of 200+) fail. And that's because he lipped off to a drill sergeant the last week.
When you are working out the numbers you should be thinking about are 40 pushups, 50 situps, and a 16:36 two mile time. You need 50% during basic, but to graduate and for every APFT after that you need 60%. You might also be scored on the 18-21 year old scale in basic regardless of age, I can't remember. That would add a couple pushups and situps and trim 30 seconds from your run.
The biggest thing to focus on is RUNNING. Esp if you already are set w/ pushups and situps. No one really cares about pushups and situps during PT. I was and still am a noodle arm when it comes to pushups. If you get smoked and can't do the entire upper body work out it's ok. As long as you keep trying, the drill sergeants will pretty much leave you alone. But if you fall out on a run everyone sees you and you will attract a lot more negative attention. Try to be able to do your two mile in under 16:00 and up to four or five miles at maybe a nine minute pace. Running in formation is usually pretty slow.
Two tips on the regular Army, one big, one small. The small one is opt for the G.I. Bill (some people choose not to) and when you get in go talk to your education counselor about the Plus-Up Program. It allows you to pay an extra $600 in to the G.I. Bill Program. In return, you get an extra $150 a month from your G.I. Bill. Which works out to be worth an extra $5400 over the course of you 36 months of benefits. At a nine-to-one return, it's silly not to take advantage of.
The big tip is be prepared for Iraq. No matter what MOS you choose, but esp if you choose a combat arms branch (Infantry, Armor, FA, Engineer). Be prepared to be stuck over here for 15 months, with one two week break, in a country that gets up to the 120s all summer long, wearing 70 pounds of gear, getting blown up by IEDs. They are bringing in more and more stuff, like AC and Internet, but there are still plenty of creature comforts that you will have to do with out. Things are much better if you are non-combat arms stationed on one of the big camps like Victory or Balad or in the IZ. But you still have to deal with occassional mortars and generally being deployed.
I guess I've ranted for long enough. Shoot me a PM if you have other questions.
Post by: Thor on October 24, 2007, 12:37:01 PM
Post by: Mabs2 on October 24, 2007, 01:13:40 PM
If not, that's a heck of a coincidence.
I figure that there are a few more retired and active duty Army (and other branch) folks here than at the first forum he asked.
Edit: Missed the part about TFL, guess you're not him.
Weird.
Post by: Balog on October 24, 2007, 06:56:31 PM
At the end of your tour, would you be more proud of killing bad guys or saving other good guys lives?
Post by: Bogie on October 24, 2007, 07:16:45 PM
I _want_ guys who know what they're doing making sure that those 2nd LTs with maps and compasses actually get their coordinates back to someone to run a fire mission.
I _want_ our guys to have e-mails, etc., from home.
I _want_ our guys to have AFRTS (or whatever they call it now) available.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 24, 2007, 07:24:26 PM
Yeah, but he already has a skill set around commo.
I _want_ guys who know what they're doing making sure that those 2nd LTs with maps and compasses actually get their coordinates back to someone to run a fire mission.
I _want_ our guys to have e-mails, etc., from home.
I _want_ our guys to have AFRTS (or whatever they call it now) available.
I _want_ guys who know what they're doing making sure that those 2nd LTs with maps and compasses actually get their coordinates back to someone to run a fire mission.
I _want_ our guys to have e-mails, etc., from home.
I _want_ our guys to have AFRTS (or whatever they call it now) available.
You do have a good point on that.I dont think I would have much of a issue working in communications but from what I have read the security
clearence is pretty strict.
Also while I respect medics I know myself well enough that I wouldnt like being one and I am sure there is alot of classroom time involved that I am also terrible at.
Post by: Scout26 on October 24, 2007, 11:02:38 PM
If you're looking to gain skills useful in the civilian world for when you get out then Combat Support like MP, MI, Signal, Chemical, and Combat Service Support like Transportation, Quartermaster, Ordinance, Medical, Finance, etc. are what you should check out. Engineers would tend fall under this category also, although do spend a some/are expected to fight as infantry. (Aviation, though a Combat Arm, for enlisted falls under the "Get experience for the Civilian World" since it consists of flinging officers at the enemy while the enlisted guys fix the birds and the gizmos in them.)
Do what you want, so that when you get out you don't say "I regret not doing XXXXX." Ask about the various schools (Jump, Air Assualt, Pathfinder, etc.) Hell, be all that you can be.
The more running you do now, the easier it will be in Basic/AIT/OSUT. And get all the bennies, GI Bill and whatever other incentives they offer.
Good luck and god speed.
The three rules for Basic Training:
1. Don't be first.
2. Don't be last.
3. Don't volunteer for anything.
-Scout26 - US Army 1983-1996; former 05C(RATT Rig Operator, then when they got rid of RATT Rigs->) /31C (Combat Signaller then, which is a now a 25C- Radio Operator-Maintainer) and finally /31A (Military Police Officer) - Active and Reserve.
Post by: RevDisk on October 25, 2007, 12:32:43 PM
Seriously, look at the higher tech stuff first. That may be where you can be best used. You can ALWAYS request a transfer to infantry while you're in basic, but it'd be a lot harder if you were already locked in at 11 bang-bang to get moved to one of the commo fields.
We've got a high-tech army now. Your skills can take you far. Or you can put 'em on the shelf, and dig holes and paint rocks. Your choice.
We've got a high-tech army now. Your skills can take you far. Or you can put 'em on the shelf, and dig holes and paint rocks. Your choice.
I was a commo geek, 25U. I happened to be pretty good at it. You'd need a secret clearance to be anything other than a 25C (radio operator) or a 25L (cable dogs) in the Signal Corps. TS SSBI isn't uncommon, TS SCI isn't extremely common. It's also pretty much the only MOS that can be assigned to any unit in the entire US Army, up to and including the White House.
We had the toys, and we did the same job all the time. 11B does his primary job, killing the enemy, very infrequently. Even in Iraq. The overwhelming majority of the time it's hurry up and wait. Difference between peacetime and war for us was avoiding UXO/IED's and to liason closer with the 11B's assigned to us. My requirements to the 11B's were always simple, for very good reasons. "Buy me 5 to 10 seconds to pop the thermites, then evac. If I get pop'd, call in arty or an airstrike on the equipment. If convenient, please drag me a bit away from said equipment first." Ended up doing a lot of cross training and working with tons of different units from different Armies and nationalities.
Do something interesting. Doesn't matter if you know anything about it or not, now. Don't spend x years doing something mundane.
Post by: ilbob on October 25, 2007, 12:53:34 PM
When he got out of basic (back in the 60s) the Army made some kind of deal with him when they learned he knew Morse code. They sent him to a school to relearn Morse and various other things regarding the Army way of using radios.
He spent a while after his school was over waiting for his security clearance to come back (a couple months IIRC) working in some kind of armory checking and rebuilding rifles (M14s I think) that were going to be assigned to new recruits.
After he got his clearance, he said he spent about 10 hours a day, 6 days a week in a small office, with a blanket for a door, transcribing Morse code. The Army tried to get him to re-enlist but he refused since he did not want to spend any more time doing that particular job anymore, and it was clear they had a shortage of that particular specialty, so he was sure he would end up back there in the little office with a blanket for a door.
Another guy I knew was a reserve SF radio operator. He collected spy radios. He had quite a collection in his basement. It was almost as neat as his gun collection. He had about a dozen radios such as those used by OSS agents dropped behind the lines during WWII. The Army used to call him up to active duty pretty regular because they had a shortage of SF radio operators. He liked going to Europe. Did not like Alaska. He used to sit in his basement and send code to another SF buddy using one time pads. He was pretty darn fast.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 01:18:56 PM
1.11x with airborne
2.11b infantry
3.19k armor crewman
4.45b small arms repair
5.13b cannon crewmember
The 45b is the only non combat mos that I have read about that sounds interesting to me.I like working on weapons and I often take them apart just to relax so maybe thats a option(probably what my mom would like.lol)but obviously non of these carry over into the real world which like I have said earlier is fine by me.I will say this much,I am very tired of running before work,then working 10 to 12 hours all on 900 calories a day!!when/if I make it to basic then I will get to eat finally.All the feed back is great.thank you.
Post by: Balog on October 25, 2007, 01:53:29 PM
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 02:15:08 PM
Being an armorer sounds fun, but it's a crap job. Mostly getting up real early to issue guns to grunts, then waiting all day for the grunts to give em back. Counting is literally your main responsibility. The grunts clean the guns, they take em out, they put em away. If counting the same gear 5 times a day is your thing, go ahead. And I used to enjoy cleaning guns myself; do it 4-5 hours a day because you have nothing better to do, every day for a few weeks.... the fun wears off.
lol makes sense when you put it that way .noted and removed from list.THis is exactey why I posted this question
Post by: Balog on October 25, 2007, 02:19:33 PM
And if you choose to disregard the advice from all the Infantry mos combat vets on here and have to have an 11, go for a Weapons MOS. TOW gunner, Javelin gunner etc. Your life will still suck, but Wpns Co's are better than Line Co's.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 02:28:47 PM
new list then
1.11x with airborne option(which for afew reasons probably wont happen)
2.19k m1 armor crewman(only fear is more time on road= more roadside bombs)
3.11b
distant 4th 13b cannon crewmember.
The more I think about it the more armor sounds pretty cool other then it being cramped and hot but I am not trying to go the easy route.
Post by: Balog on October 25, 2007, 02:38:52 PM
I think that they lumped all the 11s together and 11b covers 11h and 11m now.
new list then
1.11x with airborne option(which for afew reasons probably wont happen)
2.19k m1 armor crewman(only fear is more time on road= more roadside bombs)
3.11b
distant 4th 13b cannon crewmember.
The more I think about it the more armor sounds pretty cool other then it being cramped and hot but I am not trying to go the easy route.
new list then
1.11x with airborne option(which for afew reasons probably wont happen)
2.19k m1 armor crewman(only fear is more time on road= more roadside bombs)
3.11b
distant 4th 13b cannon crewmember.
The more I think about it the more armor sounds pretty cool other then it being cramped and hot but I am not trying to go the easy route.
Just plain wrong. Tankers spend way, way less time on the road than grunts, and they have about 10x the armor. I went out almost every day I was over (not counting the weeks spent guarding a bridge) in craptastic up-armor HMMWV's. Tanks left laager a handful of times. And even if your unit has a higher op-tempo than the army tankers I was over with, so what? I stopped counting how many times I got hit with IED's around 7; that was in the first month or two of my tour. Most IED's aren't big / accurate enough to kill someone inside an up-armor, left alone an MFing Abrams. I only know of one tank being disabled by an IED (multiple stack tank mines, very nasty). The worst IED's are ones that either hit foot patrols, ones with secondary charges that hit you after you dismount to cordon the area, or the fuel enhanced ones. The higher tech shaped charges etc are much rarer, and even they prolly won't defeat Chobham in a direct hit.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 02:45:00 PM
Post by: Balog on October 25, 2007, 02:59:19 PM
thank you.do you have any more info on 19k and do you think its a better pick then infantry?also is there alot of security clearance involved?
I was Marine infantry dude; all I know about the Army is the guys I served with in Iraq. Here's what I believe is true about Army tankers; YMMV IANAL I am not and have never been in the Army or a tanker MOS etc......
First let me be clear I'm talking about TANK mos's. I've never interacted with the other types of armor (Strykers etc) and have no idea what they are like.
I don't think clearance is need for tank jobs; if they were it'd be for the guy operating the radio and maybe the guy using the gun sights (which are amazing btw). I don't think they'd require everyone to have a clearance, but the fed.gov never manages to surprise me with it's stupidity so be sure to check.
The only thing I know for certain about tank MOS's is that they are, in fact, much better than infantry.
Post by: Bogie on October 25, 2007, 04:42:41 PM
In the mean time, you're going to spend a LOT of time doing stuff like painting rocks with people who have to move lips while they talk, and who have a hard time counting to 11 without removing either shoes or pants. The hardest thing that a lot of 'em will face will be guard duty, which isn't a big stretch, because they're used to just standing in one spot while staring into space.
Yeah, there's smart guys in the infantry too (they tend to be the frustrated ones), but there's also a buncha the folks who just joined the army because they couldn't figure out what else to do... Kids who say things like "I don't want my mama telling me to get up in the morning," who turn around and wonder why the nice guy in the funny hat won't let them sleep in.
You can volunteer for it, but there is NO guarantee that you'll end up in one of the "volunteer" units (such as the Airborne outfits), where pretty much everyone is fairly motivated. It's just as likely that you could end up watching a power station in Northern Alaska. Or spending 12 hours a day staring across the Korean DMZ at some guy who would like to eat your brains... If you're an 11-bang-bang, to many of the military leadership, you are simply a warm body that can be assigned to do just about any menial task. Some of them can get interesting, but not all that often, and generally not in ways which one likes.
Seriously: If you are good with communications stuff, go after it.
Also, we like you. It is better to be in a tank that gets hit by Abduhl while on a virgin quest than to be walking or in a Hummer...
Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
In addition, there is really "no" rear area anymore. You'll be a qualified soldier regardless. But in the long term, a techie MOS will get you a LOT further in the civilian world than will 11-bang-bang...
Answer this now: You are 25. What do you want to be doing when you are 35? When you are 45? When you are 55?
Post by: doczinn on October 25, 2007, 04:47:18 PM
Quote
Being an armorer sounds fun, but it's a crap job. Mostly getting up real early to issue guns to grunts, then waiting all day for the grunts to give em back. Counting is literally your main responsibility. The grunts clean the guns, they take em out, they put em away. If counting the same gear 5 times a day is your thing, go ahead. And I used to enjoy cleaning guns myself; do it 4-5 hours a day because you have nothing better to do, every day for a few weeks.... the fun wears off.
I can't say about the army, but in the Corps armorer and Small Arms Repair are totally different. Armorer is boring as all hell, but Small Arms Repair is actually fixing weapons.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 05:09:44 PM
Son, we've told you, several times, that grunt infantry is not a "fun" MOS... What'll likely happen is that you'll see SOME action, and hopefully your fellow soldiers in the fracas won't get you killed. This will occupy a VERY small percentage of your time in the service.
In the mean time, you're going to spend a LOT of time doing stuff like painting rocks with people who have to move lips while they talk, and who have a hard time counting to 11 without removing either shoes or pants. The hardest thing that a lot of 'em will face will be guard duty, which isn't a big stretch, because they're used to just standing in one spot while staring into space.
Yeah, there's smart guys in the infantry too (they tend to be the frustrated ones), but there's also a buncha the folks who just joined the army because they couldn't figure out what else to do... Kids who say things like "I don't want my mama telling me to get up in the morning," who turn around and wonder why the nice guy in the funny hat won't let them sleep in.
You can volunteer for it, but there is NO guarantee that you'll end up in one of the "volunteer" units (such as the Airborne outfits), where pretty much everyone is fairly motivated. It's just as likely that you could end up watching a power station in Northern Alaska. Or spending 12 hours a day staring across the Korean DMZ at some guy who would like to eat your brains... If you're an 11-bang-bang, to many of the military leadership, you are simply a warm body that can be assigned to do just about any menial task. Some of them can get interesting, but not all that often, and generally not in ways which one likes.
Seriously: If you are good with communications stuff, go after it.
Also, we like you. It is better to be in a tank that gets hit by Abduhl while on a virgin quest than to be walking or in a Hummer...
Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
In addition, there is really "no" rear area anymore. You'll be a qualified soldier regardless. But in the long term, a techie MOS will get you a LOT further in the civilian world than will 11-bang-bang...
Answer this now: You are 25. What do you want to be doing when you are 35? When you are 45? When you are 55?
In the mean time, you're going to spend a LOT of time doing stuff like painting rocks with people who have to move lips while they talk, and who have a hard time counting to 11 without removing either shoes or pants. The hardest thing that a lot of 'em will face will be guard duty, which isn't a big stretch, because they're used to just standing in one spot while staring into space.
Yeah, there's smart guys in the infantry too (they tend to be the frustrated ones), but there's also a buncha the folks who just joined the army because they couldn't figure out what else to do... Kids who say things like "I don't want my mama telling me to get up in the morning," who turn around and wonder why the nice guy in the funny hat won't let them sleep in.
You can volunteer for it, but there is NO guarantee that you'll end up in one of the "volunteer" units (such as the Airborne outfits), where pretty much everyone is fairly motivated. It's just as likely that you could end up watching a power station in Northern Alaska. Or spending 12 hours a day staring across the Korean DMZ at some guy who would like to eat your brains... If you're an 11-bang-bang, to many of the military leadership, you are simply a warm body that can be assigned to do just about any menial task. Some of them can get interesting, but not all that often, and generally not in ways which one likes.
Seriously: If you are good with communications stuff, go after it.
Also, we like you. It is better to be in a tank that gets hit by Abduhl while on a virgin quest than to be walking or in a Hummer...
Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
In addition, there is really "no" rear area anymore. You'll be a qualified soldier regardless. But in the long term, a techie MOS will get you a LOT further in the civilian world than will 11-bang-bang...
Answer this now: You are 25. What do you want to be doing when you are 35? When you are 45? When you are 55?
I never mentioned anything about fun and these high tech mos's you talk of do me no good because I will be getting in on a criminal waiver so I will not be recieving security clearance.There is nothing I can do about that now so all I can do is be realistic.While in the civilian world my mistakes of my youth arent a big deal and dont hold me up from any jobs other then law enforcement they will hold me back in the military.If I could get into one of the tech style mos's I would consider it but I have spent alot of time researching them and most need clearance.The info I have realy been looking for is the type that Balog has been giving me on what the actual mos is instead of what the description says.The more I think about it the more being a tanker appeals to me if I cant get in as a 11x with airborne in my contract.There is a good chance that wont happen due to my physical shape right now so if that doesnt happen armor will be next on the last before just going in as a regular 11b.I want to have several mos's on a list so that when I go to meps I have some clue of what is going on and I can go down the list of what I like.If they will take me and none of the mos I pick are available to me I will be a cook if it involves serving and doing my part.
also real quick on the food mre thing you mention.please keep in mind you are talking to a guy who has lost 45 pounds in 2 months eating pretty much nothing but 3/4 cup of cereal with skim milk for breakfast.lunch is usually a can of tuna(dry)with 8 saltine crackers with the occasional 210 calorie lean cusine for a treat and dinner is chicken breast,beets and pees,or 2 plain hotdogs so I have given up on looking at food as taste and more as fuel.I could probably have a feast with MREs
Post by: RevDisk on October 25, 2007, 05:19:46 PM
I can't say about the army, but in the Corps armorer and Small Arms Repair are totally different. Armorer is boring as all hell, but Small Arms Repair is actually fixing weapons.
Smalls Arms Repair is part of being an armorer in the Army. But you rarely do it. These days, even swapping bolts or whatnot is rare. If the weapon is shot to junk, it's sent to depot for repair. Letterkenny, Anniston and Tobyhanna (or used to anyways). Again, that's what I've seen but your mileage will vary depending on division and post. 99% of the time, being an armorer involves counting or cleaning. Cleaning an MG is fun. The first couple times. After the x thousandth time (literally), it is not fun. Counting rifles and bolts sucks from the first second.
On the other hand, I'd have paid money to be an SF armorer. They do get to see all kinds of interesting stuff. Then get to tear it apart, see how it ticks and somehow get it working like a Swiss clock. Plus they're allowed to actually functionally modify weapons, which is a factor 10 on the no-no list for RA armorers.
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Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
Yea, we also occassionally have to hump 300 lbs of lead acid batteries up a *##@@$ mountain to swap out the batteries in a 'optimized location'. But yea, in general, we did not pull worst line duties. The down side is being a significant target by any enemy with a brain. First guy any intelligent enemy tries to kill is the radio guy. While it is (generally) less physically depending than grunt or cannon cocker, it can be just as dangerous.
Post by: Jamisjockey on October 25, 2007, 05:46:52 PM
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I don't think they'd require everyone to have a clearance, but the fed.gov never manages to surprise me with it's stupidity so be sure to check.
When I was in the Corps, I was an ATC. In the Mobile Radar units there is crypto gear. Mind you I never touched it, never serviced it, and wasn't even sure which radio bank it was in. But we had to have Secret (IIRC) clearances to work around that gear.
I recieved a Top Secret when I was being spooled up for a West Pac, but wasn't told why. Never ended up going on that float, I got out...
Post by: Bogie on October 25, 2007, 06:39:26 PM
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Answer this now: You are 25. What do you want to be doing when you are 35? When you are 45? When you are 55?
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PLAN. Otherwise, you're quite likely to be one of the folks standing next to a road, guarding a gate that nobody ever goes through.
HOPING that you'll make it through basic and AIT in decent enough shape, and uninjured enough to do jump school, and maybe pass, is _not_ a plan.
Do you have a prior or current service mentor who is going to the recruiter with you? The recruiter doesn't count. He's there to score warm bodies, and if a job's on the list, he wants to fill it. You need to sit down and very carefully go over EVERY option. The recruiter may not tell you every option.
I don't know what you did, other than get ink. I don't really care. At least you're being honest with the folks. That's a plus. Personally, I'd go as techie as they'll let you, and then wait for time in service/time in grade to negate your troubled yout days...
Also, you NEED to start eating more protein... On a low calorie high carb diet, your body burns EVERYTHING, including muscle. That's why you feel like crap. Gitcherself a jug of the protein drink stuff, and try to get at least 25-50 grams/day, while working out.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 25, 2007, 06:54:52 PM
You didn't answer.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PLAN. Otherwise, you're quite likely to be one of the folks standing next to a road, guarding a gate that nobody ever goes through.
HOPING that you'll make it through basic and AIT in decent enough shape, and uninjured enough to do jump school, and maybe pass, is _not_ a plan.
Do you have a prior or current service mentor who is going to the recruiter with you? The recruiter doesn't count. He's there to score warm bodies, and if a job's on the list, he wants to fill it. You need to sit down and very carefully go over EVERY option. The recruiter may not tell you every option.
I don't know what you did, other than get ink. I don't really care. At least you're being honest with the folks. That's a plus. Personally, I'd go as techie as they'll let you, and then wait for time in service/time in grade to negate your troubled yout days...
Also, you NEED to start eating more protein... On a low calorie high carb diet, your body burns EVERYTHING, including muscle. That's why you feel like crap. Gitcherself a jug of the protein drink stuff, and try to get at least 25-50 grams/day, while working out.
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Answer this now: You are 25. What do you want to be doing when you are 35? When you are 45? When you are 55?
YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PLAN. Otherwise, you're quite likely to be one of the folks standing next to a road, guarding a gate that nobody ever goes through.
HOPING that you'll make it through basic and AIT in decent enough shape, and uninjured enough to do jump school, and maybe pass, is _not_ a plan.
Do you have a prior or current service mentor who is going to the recruiter with you? The recruiter doesn't count. He's there to score warm bodies, and if a job's on the list, he wants to fill it. You need to sit down and very carefully go over EVERY option. The recruiter may not tell you every option.
I don't know what you did, other than get ink. I don't really care. At least you're being honest with the folks. That's a plus. Personally, I'd go as techie as they'll let you, and then wait for time in service/time in grade to negate your troubled yout days...
Also, you NEED to start eating more protein... On a low calorie high carb diet, your body burns EVERYTHING, including muscle. That's why you feel like crap. Gitcherself a jug of the protein drink stuff, and try to get at least 25-50 grams/day, while working out.
lol,bogie do you read what I post.I eat 175 calories worth of tuna and 250 calories of chicken breast.Thats close to half my daily intake in very high protein food.At 900 calories it doesnt matter what you eat you are gonna be tired let alone working10 to 12 hours at a physical job(I climb telephone poles and in attics on a daily basis,then ad a 2 mile run and push up,sit ups,and pull ups every morning.Whe I get to weight and go back to 2000 to 2500 calories a day I am gonna feel like super man lol.As far as my record I got charged with felony assault as a minor which was reviewed later by the DA and dropped to misd and sealed.My public defender just told me to plead guilty after talking to me for about 30 seconds so being a terrified 16 year old I did not knowing any better.Later in life I realized I never should have been charged with a felony and the DA after reviewing the case for me agreed and asked why I plead guilty in the first place.lol oh well live and learn.Not a big deal in life other then the military which doesnt care that it was reduced and sealed and will not give me security clearance.As far as a mentor I have you bogie and the other people who have been kind enough to post plus the hours I have spent reading up on MOS and what is required.As far as what I will be doing when I am 35...I will be hanging from a telephone pole making a honest buck working for a living and maybe at 45 I will have my contractors liscence and own my own company that has kids climbing poles for me.Hell I may like the army and stick around a while gaurding gates.
Post by: Thor on October 25, 2007, 07:53:42 PM
Post by: Scout26 on October 26, 2007, 10:08:38 AM
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YOU HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF PLAN.
Nahh, I knew a guy who after his stint spent the next two years bumming around europe. Sometimes just going on a lark can be rewarding.
Why do I say this ?? I enlisted in the reserves before I graduated from HS in '83. I thought I wanted to be a computer programmer. I had a plan, I listened to the recruiter, got advice from family, friends, mentors. Here's what happened. I'd spend all week at school pounding a keyboard in front of a green screen and hating it, then one weekend a month I get to go "Play Army". My unit (Combat Support MP's) is out playing "Rat Patrol" in 1/4 tons and chasing "Spetsnatz" through the woods with blanks and all kinds of pyro toys. And WTF am I doing ?? I'm locked in a 6'x6'x4' box and pounding a keyboard on a 1950's teletype machine. Great flipping fun.
Not what I wanted, I wanted to run through the woods shooting crap or try hanging onto a Ma Deuce while the driver "tested" the impact absorbation ability our tanks' suspension. I wanted to be a nine year old boy playing army, only with the real stuff. I didn't want a job or a career, I wanted adventure.Now granted that was during the Reagan years and the only real danger was of the "Balloon going up" in either Europe or the Koreas.
I'll say it again. Nothing wrong with going in to have the adventure. Be advised that you will go someplace not fun and you may get more adventure then you want. But do not live with regrets.
Post by: Hawkmoon on October 26, 2007, 04:44:20 PM
Seriously: If you are good with communications stuff, go after it.
Also, we like you. It is better to be in a tank that gets hit by Abduhl while on a virgin quest than to be walking or in a Hummer...
Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
Also, we like you. It is better to be in a tank that gets hit by Abduhl while on a virgin quest than to be walking or in a Hummer...
Also, keep in mind that commo guys in the rear with the gear RARELY have to hump 60 pound rucks while carrying two full .308 ammo cans, and a rifle, vest and helmet. And they just as rarely have to move 75 pound artillery shells... And they usually get hot food. How many MREs have you eaten in your life? I can tell you that I've got you beat. And that was before they got "good."
Bogie has a point. I admire you for wanting to serve for the sake of serving, but there is a philosophy (expressed differently by different religions and different philosophies) that essentially says "God takes care of those who care about themselves." Face it: The United States military is woefully under-manned at present, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. It doesn't matter what your MOS is going to be, you WILL be a soldier, and you WILL visit some interesting but not exactly touristy locations around the globe. You WILL be serving. Remember, Jessica Lynch and her roommate were in a Quartermaster unit ... They were supposed to be REMFs, not front line casualties.
Consider seriously the advice you have been given to look at your options while you still have options. If you don't like commo because it's boring, how do you feel about blowing things up, for example? Combat Engineers is sometimes referred to as front line infantry (hey, who do you think builds the air strips and landing pads where the infantry carrier aircraft touch down to off-load?), but you also get to do some fun stuff -- like build bridges, or blow things up.
Post by: Bogie on October 26, 2007, 04:45:17 PM
Post by: Scout26 on October 26, 2007, 04:52:23 PM
Post by: cosine on October 27, 2007, 06:11:27 AM
Remind me to tell the story of the "Improvised NBC Simulator using artillery/grenade simulators and 5 lb bags of flour."
Now's as good a time as any.
Post by: RevDisk on October 27, 2007, 06:58:27 AM
Remind me to tell the story of the "Improvised NBC Simulator using artillery/grenade simulators and 5 lb bags of flour."
Under specific circumstances in volume, distribution and proper aerosolization, you can turn flour (or any other fine powder) into a fuel air explosive.
Post by: Thor on October 27, 2007, 08:31:52 AM
Post by: Bogie on October 27, 2007, 08:33:15 AM
Kalifornist: As an 11-bang-bang grunt, you will be at the mercy of people in the above ranks. Some of which are "getting their ticket punched" so that they can move on to Bigger and Better Things... Those numbnuts can get you killed.
People in the rear with the gear rarely hear the words "MOPP Level 4."
Post by: Thor on October 27, 2007, 08:36:10 AM
Post by: Balog on October 27, 2007, 10:34:35 AM
As others have said, you'll be serving no matter what you do, so do something you'll enjoy. The Army needs it or they wouldn't let you do it.
Tank mos's are pretty damn fun, engineers get to do cool stuff, crash fire rescue (Marines version of firefighters, not sure what the Army calls em) get to do some really fun stuff but it's more difficult to get into, translators (or language specs, whatever the name is. They're a subset of intel) are awesome. Take the DLAB (defense language aptitude battery iirc) and try to get over 100. I got a 99
.Anyway, I think I understand where you are coming from; it sounds a lot like my own attitude when I first enlisted. However, please listen to me and others who've BTDT and avoid the infantry like the friggin plague. It isn't what you think it is, and it isn't what you want. Trust me. Tanks have the good stuff of the grunts and much less of the bad stuff.
Post by: KALIFORNIST on October 27, 2007, 06:10:15 PM
Post by: Balog on October 27, 2007, 08:04:43 PM
Post by: KALIFORNIST on November 21, 2007, 05:03:54 PM
Post by: Perd Hapley on November 21, 2007, 05:37:32 PM
