Post by: Nick1911 on November 21, 2007, 09:02:19 AM
The setup:
Take an inductor with a movable metal (steel) core (hmm& solenoid?) and pass current through it while the metal core is in place.
The question:
What (if anything) happens electrically when the core is forcibly removed while the inductor is energized? What laws govern this?
What if the core was magnetized? It should act like a linear generator, but would having a pre-existing electromagnetic field change anything? If so, how in theory would it change?
The theory:
The inductor should resist the core being pulled out, much like a solenoid. Energy is conserved, so the mechanical energy of pulling the metal core out must end up somewhere, but does it end up in the electrical system?
Thanks for considering this question!
Post by: Werewolf on November 21, 2007, 09:21:26 AM
There will be effects on other components in the system since total circuit impedance will change; what that might be depends on the circuit in question.
Post by: never_retreat on November 21, 2007, 10:07:16 AM
I call the .gov .feds right now for you.
Post by: Nick1911 on November 21, 2007, 10:10:15 AM
Is someone trying to build their own rail gun?
I call the .gov .feds right now for you.
I call the .gov .feds right now for you.
It would probably end up dumping the pulse into a big LC circuit designed to resonate at some megahertz, matched to an antennae...
Post by: drewtam on November 21, 2007, 01:05:14 PM
Is someone trying to build their own rail gun?
I call the .gov .feds right now for you.
I call the .gov .feds right now for you.
It would probably end up dumping the pulse into a big LC circuit designed to resonate at some megahertz, matched to an antennae...
I've thought about something similiar, as an anti cellphone IED killer.
Post by: Nick1911 on November 21, 2007, 02:00:16 PM
I have a solenoid I can play with. I'll grab my test equipment from my parents house this weekend and see what happens, if anything.
Post by: Antibubba on November 21, 2007, 10:05:24 PM
Post by: jeepmor on November 22, 2007, 12:27:18 AM
E=BLV
E=volts
B=Magnetic strength in Gauss
L=Length of conductor (your coil, proportional to the number of wraps)
V=Velocity of magnet through the coil
You usually know three and solve for the unknown.
More wraps on solenoid wire and the stronger the magnetic field, the higher the velocity of said core through the windings, and the greater the pulse, or voltage in this case.
The key is the explosion that creates the huge velocities of a magnet through a winding with mucho windings count.
I recall this stuff from physics in college. I remember thinking if you could load a gun with a strong magnet as a bullet instead of a typical lead projectile, this would provide your mucho velocity. Then you just fashion a coil that attaches to the muzzle and send the magnet through with normal rifle casing.
In this case, I'd choose a rifle and fashion my own bullets out of magnetic material or, use a shotgun slug, drill a hole in it and put a magnet inside the massive hollowpoint you just fashioned. Or, you could machine the magnetic bullet under sized and wrap it with paper to engage the rifling adequately.
In a rifle that had screw on tip for a flash suppressor or silencer, you could fashion your coil out of something aluminum that you could wind with 1000s of wraps of magnet wire, the more the better. This is the L portion of the equation. Now, what kind of antenna do you connect it to direct such pulse, I don't know, that's beyond my field. I was a mechanical engineering student, not an electronics guy. However, were I attempting this, I suspect I'd use one round at a time. The pulse might be intense enough to ignite any primers in a magazine. I'm not sure, for they should be grounded, but I wouldn't chance it. In the case of the firearm mounted model I just discussed, it would not be destroyed each time, so only your bullets would be consumable, everything else should survive. If it created too much amperage, it could fry the wire, in which case, you'd need heavier gauge wire and need to try again.
Good luck.
I suppose some electronics gurus should be chiming in here. I remember an electronics major buddy doing impulse calculations where they dumped the energy out of a capacitor at nearly zero time and it generated huge spikes in electrical energy. I don't recall if it was current or voltage, but I suspect voltage.
Hope this helps. Have fun and be safe.
jeepmor
Post by: 280plus on November 23, 2007, 03:22:55 AM
The curious part in me begs a question though. Why?
I DO think it's interesting that you can compress a magnetic wave with what? Air pressure essentially?
Post by: S. Williamson on November 23, 2007, 11:00:31 PM
Post by: Scout26 on November 24, 2007, 05:18:13 AM
Post by: Harold Tuttle on November 24, 2007, 05:47:11 AM
Post by: jeepmor on November 25, 2007, 04:48:26 AM
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Pfft. Lose the idea for the fluxcompression generator, and build a capcitor on the same theory instead. Far more potential for usefulness.
Care to provide any data on how? The guy asks a legitimate physics question and everyone goes armchair never been to college but "I can tell you how to make it better, but can't share data" stance. That's real big of everyone.
Do any of you have any real input besides just mocking the guy for wanting to try something but belittling others? So far, I think not. It's always easier to be a smart ass than contribute. As the saying goes. Rather be a smart ass than a dumb ass. But the person still misses the point, they're still an ass.
Any movement on your goal Nick1911, I'd be happy to see some pics of any contraptions you come up with. Interesting stuff, although, I'm not sure you should really share in a forum like this with a bunch of armchair wannabe scientists debating without contributing squat in regard to actual physics.
I digress, this is a conservatives forum, not a science forum. Browbeat our OP as you were if it makes you feel better, considering the responses, your stances are obvious until you step up and CONTRIBUTE!
You're not compressing a magnetic wave, you're sending a magnet through a toroid coil so damn fast is generates a huge magnetic pulse. E=BLV, ever take any math classes.
Post by: 280plus on November 25, 2007, 05:52:45 AM
There's a difference between mockery and cracking a little joke. If you ask me, what he's trying to create is, at the very least and from what I can tell, dangerous as hell, hence the legitimacy of my question.
Quote
E=BLV, ever take any math classes.
No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express one time...You'll notice there were question marks at the end of my questions. That would indicate I was asking. Thanks for the answer, but not necessarily the 'tude...
Post by: jeepmor on November 25, 2007, 06:38:44 PM
I did not even consider your comments in my post, rather the people stating a capacitor would be more effective, yet no backing of the theory provided. I just get tired of seeing everyone chime in to be a wiseguy and not even trying to contribute to the guys goal. I'm not saying everyone has to be right, but a reals stab at the problem instead of the old flux capacitor joke does not contribute to the question.
Sorry all, I take myself a bit too seriously and often do the same wiseguy crap I denounce here.
Post by: 280plus on November 26, 2007, 09:05:32 AM
Post by: 280plus on November 26, 2007, 11:17:14 AM