Post by: Desertdog on December 24, 2007, 05:20:38 PM
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20071223/D8TNANIG0.html
PHOENIX (AP) - Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.
The procedure was started Oct. 15, a result of the September killing of Phoenix police officer Nick Erfle by an illegal immigrant, Erik Jovani Martinez.
Scottsdale police had arrested Martinez on a misdemeanor charge 16 months earlier but they released him then because they didn't know he was an illegal immigrant who had been twice deported.
Erfle's killing "caused us to look at what were asking suspects," Scottsdale police Sgt. Mark Clark said. "If we arrest someone and then find that we called ICE (Customs and Immigration Enforcement) and they put a hold on them, then we know they have been deported and are back again."
Martinez was later killed by police after he stole a car and took a hostage, authorities said.
Now police in the affluent suburb ask every suspect about their citizenship, have ICE agents pick up those who are in this country illegally, and keep a database of possible illegal immigrants in case they turn up again.
Scottsdale Mayor Mary Manross supports the policy change and said that because every suspect is asked about citizenship, police are not engaged in racial profiling.
"I would not tolerate that," Manross said. "I think the chief has struck the right balance to do what we want to achieve."
Clark said that in the past Scottsdale officers didn't routinely call ICE about illegal immigrants because the agency was short-handed and could not always respond.
That's changed, said Eduardo Preciado, an assistant ICE field officer in Phoenix. The agency was short-staffed until about a year ago when it added agents to man phones and to assist local law enforcement agencies, he said.
"Now we respond to every call," Preciado said.
Post by: The Rabbi on December 24, 2007, 05:26:37 PM
I see the transformation has already begun.
Post by: Nitrogen on December 24, 2007, 05:43:54 PM
I was living there at the time.
Post by: Leatherneck on December 25, 2007, 06:10:25 AM
TC
Post by: Phantom Warrior on December 25, 2007, 06:37:40 AM
Quote
Born in Massachusetts, I don't know how I could *prove* my citizenship at the drop of a hat.
Huh. That's a good point. At the same time, everyone is complaining about illegal immigrants (myself included) and gripping whenever rules are made to prevent police from checking on someone's citizenship status. How would you catch illegal immigrants w/o making citizens carry around ze papers everywhere they go? Any thoughts?
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 25, 2007, 07:27:12 AM
maybe ice is coming when the cops call in arizona they aren't around here even in cases as serious as sexual assault. pisses cops off
Post by: seeker_two on December 25, 2007, 07:43:51 AM
Quote
Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.
....or maybe, if you don't get arrested while doing something illegal, it's not a problem to worry about......
Post by: mustanger98 on December 25, 2007, 07:56:31 AM
Quote
How would you catch illegal immigrants w/o making citizens carry around ze papers everywhere they go? Any thoughts?
Good question. In my case, I have the GA ID (w/photo, but not a driver's license), SS card, selective service card, GA honorary/disabled hunting/fishing license... my understanding is you can't get those without being a citizen. Add to that I had to send a copy of my registered copy birth certificate when I ordered my CMP Garand... they don't sell you a rifle or ammo if you're not a citizen. I guess even though I don't carry "ze papers", I still carry "ze papers" anyway.
....or maybe, if you don't get arrested while doing something illegal, it's not a problem to worry about......
There's the point for probably most of us.
Post by: The Rabbi on December 25, 2007, 08:04:52 AM
So now AZ also has a law (so does TN) prohibiting employers from employing illegals. The employer has to run them through some Federal database. Surprise surprise, the database has inaccuracies and not all legal citizens will show up. So how long until some guy born here with a Hispanic name and appearance whose info doesn't appear on the list gets fired?
No, this is asking for a police state.
Post by: Laurent du Var on December 25, 2007, 08:26:45 AM
How about asking proof for citizenship the criminals
with :
a) an accent (would include me, if I had commited a crime)
b) brownish short fellas
c) heavily tatooed fellas
d) greyish fellas with a long beard
e) greyish fellas without a beard with a history of studying in Germany
f) people who are well over seven feet tall
No, I'm just kidding I'm all for checking ones nationality after a commited crime.
In France if you're a foreigner and you commit a crime you will spend your whole sentence as opposed to early release for good behaviour and you'll then be expulsed and prohibited for life to come back on French territory.
In my book you could shoot criminal tourists right up to the moon.
Post by: The Rabbi on December 25, 2007, 08:47:51 AM
In France if you're a foreigner and you commit a crime you will spend your whole sentence as opposed to early release for good behaviour and you'll then be expulsed and prohibited for life to come back on French territory.
I thought the idea was to punish criminals. Maybe they should feed them tete de veaux or escargot or something for their period of incarceration.
Post by: jefnvk on December 25, 2007, 03:46:51 PM
Post by: MechAg94 on December 26, 2007, 09:22:52 AM
In this case, it sounds like they ask only if they stop or question you for something else. They would likely be asking for ID in those cases anyway. I am not sure this us any closer to the "Papers, please" situation.
Post by: Nitrogen on December 26, 2007, 09:34:06 AM
I think even if most citizens carried no ID, their name would be in the system and likely enough to identify them. The problem would be if you are a naturalized citizen or have a name flagged as used by illegals for fake ID's. That could be a problem.
In this case, it sounds like they ask only if they stop or question you for something else. They would likely be asking for ID in those cases anyway. I am not sure this us any closer to the "Papers, please" situation.
In this case, it sounds like they ask only if they stop or question you for something else. They would likely be asking for ID in those cases anyway. I am not sure this us any closer to the "Papers, please" situation.
Sure it is.
As someone else said, if you got stopped by the police for speeding, for instance, could you PROVE your citizenship right there? The next logical step, will be the requirement for citizens to carry their papers on them.
Remember the old addage, innocent until proven guilty? I know it's been infringed upon quite a bit, but that's supposed to be what we're about. The government should need to PROVE you're illegal, you shouldn't need to prove you're not.
Post by: Phyphor on December 26, 2007, 10:57:13 AM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
I'm in total agreement.
On one hand, I don't like the parallels to Nazi Germany.
On the other hand, I think we should be doing something about these illegals.
On the gripping hand, the govt. is gonna do whatever the hell it feels like. We'd either better invest in a lot of butter or do something about it. Mainly, stop voting for those that would take our liberties away from us, one piece at a time.
Post by: MechAg94 on December 26, 2007, 11:00:37 AM
I guess all I am saying is I don't think this little issue adds anything to what LEO's already do and have done for years.
Post by: Phyphor on December 26, 2007, 11:02:13 AM
I think even if most citizens carried no ID, their name would be in the system and likely enough to identify them. The problem would be if you are a naturalized citizen or have a name flagged as used by illegals for fake ID's. That could be a problem.
In this case, it sounds like they ask only if they stop or question you for something else. They would likely be asking for ID in those cases anyway. I am not sure this us any closer to the "Papers, please" situation.
In this case, it sounds like they ask only if they stop or question you for something else. They would likely be asking for ID in those cases anyway. I am not sure this us any closer to the "Papers, please" situation.
Sure it is.
Das ist nicht scheisse.
(Irony intended)
Federal ID card, anyone?
Quote
As someone else said, if you got stopped by the police for speeding, for instance, could you PROVE your citizenship right there? The next logical step, will be the requirement for citizens to carry their papers on them.
Best I could do is a drivers license and a ID card.... Selective Service card too, come to think of it. Assuming that's good enough. Although I'm quite white.
Quote
Remember the old addage, innocent until proven guilty? I know it's been infringed upon quite a bit, but that's supposed to be what we're about. The government should need to PROVE you're illegal, you shouldn't need to prove you're not.
Heh, in the land of no-knock warrants (issued because of hearsay) and warrentless phone taps, the above has gone from reality to a distant memory.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on December 26, 2007, 11:05:05 AM
I live in Scottsdale, and I wholeheartedly support this program. I hate anything smelling of JBT/goose-steppers, but what's happening here is a blanket check for EVERYONE, who is ARRESTED on suspicion of some other crime.
There's no road blocks in front of Filiberto's taco stand or stalking of Hector's yard service. That's what the IRS, INS and ICE are for.
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 12:50:16 PM
Trying to say so minimizes the genocide of WW2, criminals are getting deported before they get to kill,rape and destroy the lives of legal immigrants to this country as well as USA born citizens.
So after you've gotten ARRESTED you stay there until proven an American citizen, even if you are a white guy with "Live Free Or Die" tatooed on your forehead.
This is a far cry from sending people with dark hair to concentration camps and executing people for looking like a Jew while they are out shopping.
In MEXICO and NEARLY EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH if you mess up so bad that you get ARRESTED they are gong to keep you there until proven a citizen, especially if you cant even speak the same language of the majority of the people of the country you were arrested in.
Everyone yelling NAZI at the drop of a hat is very disturbing, it makes folks who are unaware of history think the Nazi's weren't that bad.
Post by: Phyphor on December 26, 2007, 01:46:48 PM
THIS IS NOTHING LIKE NAZI GERMANY!
Yet. Little by little it creeps closer.
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So after you've gotten ARRESTED you stay there until proven an American citizen, even if you are a white guy with "Live Free Or Die" tatooed on your forehead.
So much for 'innocent until proven guilty.'
What if your paperwork is gone? Say, you lost it in a fire or it was stolen? How do you prove you were a citizen, then?
Don't we have laws against imprisoning people without the benefit of a trial?
Quote
This is a far cry from sending people with dark hair to concentration camps and executing people for looking like a Jew while they are out shopping.
While I don't believe executions are exactly around the corner for folks labeled 'undesirables' here, it is awfully scary to see how our government is proceeding down that slippery slope for the sake of expediency.
Quote
In MEXICO and NEARLY EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH if you mess up so bad that you get ARRESTED they are gong to keep you there until proven a citizen, especially if you cant even speak the same language of the majority of the people of the country you were arrested in.
FYI, you don't exactly have to mess up badly to be arrested. If the police officer suspects you're intoxicated, or you're disturbing the peace, or any of hundreds of other minor offense, you can be arrested. It ain't just hardened criminals getting cuffs slapped on them.
Post by: Moondoggie on December 26, 2007, 02:00:20 PM
Somebody asks me to prove I'm a citizen, I'm happy to oblige.
How fricking hard would it be to carry a photocopy of your birth certificate in your billfold??? We all carry plenty of other junk in there...c'mon, admit it. Reduce it to manageable size and laminate it. How hard is that???
If we wouldn't have been such pussies for the last 50 yrs and let several million illegal aliens take unfettered residence in our country (WITH BENEFITS) , we wouldn't have this problem in the first place.
"Papers, please"...my dyin' ass!
The vast majority of people polled by everybody in this country want illegal immigration curtailed...then they whine when the cops actually do something about it.
Post by: The Rabbi on December 26, 2007, 05:31:52 PM
The vast majority of people polled by everybody in this country want illegal immigration curtailed...then they whine when the cops actually do something about it.
Bingo! We have a winner!
Yes, people are happy to throw the book at illegal immigrants. As long as throwing the book won't affect them negatively.
What they fail to realize is that there is no discernible difference between an illegal immigrant, a legal immigrant, and a native born citizen. Thus to determine the difference, more intrusive methods must be used. Like verifying citizenship for employment. And since those verification methods are imprecise and subject to error, voila! You have legal Americans being fired and discriminated against.
Post by: jefnvk on December 26, 2007, 05:34:38 PM
Quote
How fricking hard would it be to carry a photocopy of your birth certificate in your billfold??? We all carry plenty of other junk in there...c'mon, admit it. Reduce it to manageable size and laminate it. How hard is that???
I don't think a photocopy counts as acceptable in most cases.
Post by: atomd on December 26, 2007, 06:50:48 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 07:30:58 PM
Just like the rest of the world.
Getting rid of illegal aliens makes us exactly like the Nazi's....just ask these kids.
Post by: atomd on December 26, 2007, 07:50:35 PM
Quote
Getting rid of illegal aliens makes us exactly like the Nazi's....just ask these kids.
I have to disagree. Comparing securing your border to Nazi Germany is asinine. Two totally different things. Last time I checked the INS hasn't fired up their gas chambers.
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 08:00:03 PM
Quote
I have to disagree. Comparing securing your border to Nazi Germany is asinine. Two totally different things. Last time I checked the INS hasn't fired up their gas chambers.
That was kind of my point here.
Post by: atomd on December 26, 2007, 08:10:30 PM
Post by: gunsmith on December 26, 2007, 11:27:53 PM
People (usually on the left) who go around saying we are becoming like the Nazi's do not have a clue about how gross, insensitive & plain ignorant they sound.
They're are a lot of things to dislike about the Bush 43 admin, accusing them of being like the Nazi's is a disgusting smear against the actual millions and millions of people who suffered quite horribly, under real fascism.
Post by: seeker_two on December 27, 2007, 05:39:16 AM
umm
Quote
I have to disagree. Comparing securing your border to Nazi Germany is asinine. Two totally different things. Last time I checked the INS hasn't fired up their gas chambers.
That was kind of my point here.You and Will Smith are having a bad week, eh?.....
+1 to all your comments, gunsmith. We're not acting anything like Nazi Germany by enacting this program in AZ. If you want to compare us to another nation, maybe we need to guard our southern border more like Mexico does?.....
Post by: The Viking on December 27, 2007, 06:49:50 AM
We don't need no National ID, just have everyone get a passport.
Just like the rest of the world.
Getting rid of illegal aliens makes us exactly like the Nazi's....just ask these kids.
Like the rest of the world? Heck, my passport has expired. I've got an ID card. Good enough for travelling through Schengen treaty countries. My ID was issued by the police, but I got that because I wanted something that would be good for ID purposes in the rest of Europe, otherwise I would simply use a drivers license, or an ID issued by the bank/post office...
Just like the rest of the world.
Getting rid of illegal aliens makes us exactly like the Nazi's....just ask these kids.
Post by: MechAg94 on December 27, 2007, 07:15:13 AM
If you are Arrested, LEO's already look for your name and ID to find outstanding warrants and such. Looking up your citizenship or immigration status in addition to that is minor. All you have to do is get pulled over for a traffic violation to get that search done.
Post by: Jocassee on December 27, 2007, 11:08:07 AM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
Don't confuse fascism with enforcing the laws.
Post by: wooderson on December 27, 2007, 12:31:24 PM
And gunsmith, no one has suggested that fascistic demands are tantamount to the Holocaust. You might have noticed that the Nazis ran their state for a number of years prior to The Final Solution, employing precisely the kind of controls people are raising their eyebrows at.
Post by: Tallpine on December 27, 2007, 12:32:14 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on December 27, 2007, 12:36:16 PM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
Don't confuse fascism with enforcing the laws.
Everything the Nazis did was strictly according to the law.
Post by: Jocassee on December 27, 2007, 12:50:45 PM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
Don't confuse fascism with enforcing the laws.
Everything the Nazis did was strictly according to the law.
Correct. But I fail to see how enforcing IMMIGRATION law specifically puts, or furthers, this nation on the Slippery Slope (you know the one I'm talking about). How would one identify illegal aliens except by their papieren, be that driver's license or whatever. If they were calling for a national ID I would take issue with it, but they aren't. They're checking licenses and immigration papers, which they should be doing anyway.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 27, 2007, 03:45:13 PM
Post by: Jocassee on December 27, 2007, 05:19:41 PM
so what do you suggest be done when someone has neither? how long will you want the cops to hold them?just in case
If they are merely being arrested for a crime--we are not pulling random peeps off the streets--then if they are aliens, their docs have to be current or correct. If they are supposedly a citizen, their social, DL and/or birth certificate, or record of residency should clear them. Muy facil.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 27, 2007, 09:40:05 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on December 28, 2007, 04:33:37 AM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
Don't confuse fascism with enforcing the laws.
Everything the Nazis did was strictly according to the law.
Correct. But I fail to see how enforcing IMMIGRATION law specifically puts, or furthers, this nation on the Slippery Slope (you know the one I'm talking about). How would one identify illegal aliens except by their papieren, be that driver's license or whatever. If they were calling for a national ID I would take issue with it, but they aren't. They're checking licenses and immigration papers, which they should be doing anyway.
The Nazis also enforced "immigration law", making criminals of Jews who had immigrated to Germany from Poland, even where that had happened 50 years earlier.
We are a long way from Nazi Germany.
But again, one cannot tell the difference between an illegal immigrant and a legal immigrant or a native-born American by sight. So the only way to distinguish is by paperwork. And that means everyone-EVERYONE-having paperwork to show their status. And we are a lot closer to that than most people think.
Post by: MechAg94 on December 28, 2007, 05:43:51 AM
If you want to argue a hypothetical of taking random people aside for papers checks, that is a bit different and apart from the "slippery slope". If you are not carrying your ID, I would think just providing your name ought to bring up a physical description the officer could compare. They might ask you to confirm your address to verify. These things can be done without "papers", at least for 99.99% of the people out there. Of course, that should still not be done unless you are already doing something that would get you arrested.
Post by: MechAg94 on December 28, 2007, 05:54:42 AM
Um, MechAG, most names (particularly those of people who are going to be questioned about illegal status) are fairly common. This means that people are going to be flagged incorrectly, one way or the other. If you're an illegal, why not just guess a random, common name that's going to come up as 'legal' and walk away? If we open that system up, such that the cops might not believe you and can detain you anyway... we're back to square one.
In this case, people are being detained already and the immigration status check has been added to the standard "open warrants" check. They are not yanking people off the streets to check papers. That is a hypothetical situation that has been added to this conversation. Fake names were a problem last year and will be next year, regardless of this change. Since we are talking about people who are already being arrested and likely fingerprinted, I am not sure it changes anything.
I agree that if someone is not being arrested/detained for some other reason, he shouldn't be detained for any extra immigration checks or ID checks. I agree the potential situation could be bad, but I just don't see this situation as moving that direction.
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on December 28, 2007, 07:32:32 AM
How would you catch illegal immigrants w/o making citizens carry around ze papers everywhere they go? Any thoughts?
A simple call to the county health records office to check on a birth certificate could verify citizenship for the vast majority of citizens. Proving your citizenship isn't particularly difficult in this country. The police can check the citizenship of all whom they arrest without the citizenry being required to carry papers.
Don't get me wrong, I think that most of the immigration enforcement schemes currently under discussion are statist and immoral. But I don't see a problem with what the Scottsdale police are doing.
Post by: Jocassee on December 28, 2007, 07:59:45 AM
"Papieren, bitte."
I see the transformation has already begun.
I see the transformation has already begun.
Don't confuse fascism with enforcing the laws.
Everything the Nazis did was strictly according to the law.
Correct. But I fail to see how enforcing IMMIGRATION law specifically puts, or furthers, this nation on the Slippery Slope (you know the one I'm talking about). How would one identify illegal aliens except by their papieren, be that driver's license or whatever. If they were calling for a national ID I would take issue with it, but they aren't. They're checking licenses and immigration papers, which they should be doing anyway.
... And that means everyone-EVERYONE-having paperwork to show their status. And we are a lot closer to that than most people think.
Only if you don't have a valid driver's license--a very small percentage. Once again--national ID = baaad. DL check = gooood. If no DL, then special considerations come into play, such as what papers ARE needed, or how long to hold someone. Since we're on the topic...
How DO the INS determine of someone is ilega? Seems to me their procedures would answer a lot of questions on this topic.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 28, 2007, 09:19:32 AM
really? you think all those county offices answer or could answer that volume of calls?lots of citizens born overseas or like me in territorys of the us. heck the college grad at the state dept asked my sis if she was a citizen being born on wake island and all. mind you she was applying for a passport
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on December 28, 2007, 01:05:42 PM
i musta been unclear when the cops stop someone and they don't have papers what do you propose the cops do? not all interactions require arrest. not even all crimes require arrest. how long before the illegals learn to use a legal name and no papers. cops run the name it comes back good. junkies do that already. so are you proposing the cops start holding anyone with no papers till they check out? or have some new method i haven't considered? some folks used gold stars once but that won't fly here. yet.
Quote from: OP
PHOENIX (AP) - Police in suburban Scottsdale have begun routinely asking for proof of citizenship from every suspect they arrest and turning those who are in this country illegally over to federal immigration officials.
Completely unrelated to the OP. Only matters if you are being arrested on charges completely unrelated to immigration offences. Kinda like how Al Capone was finally stopped from rumrunning by tax evasion, or how charges against a bank robber can be doubled or tripled by stacking on assault and "gun" charges as well as the grand larceny.
This action targets those who are already suspect (hence the arrest) for breaking the law.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on December 28, 2007, 05:46:24 PM
Post by: ilbob on December 28, 2007, 06:01:32 PM
i'm arrested on a bondable offense how lomg are the cops allowed to hold me trying to verify my status? and bear in mind how many folks have the same name
how long can they keep you if they cannot verify your identity?
Post by: gunsmith on December 28, 2007, 09:31:45 PM
Quote
how long can they keep you if they cannot verify your identity?
probably the same amount as any other citizen, and I really hope it is a long time...
I am sick and tired of illegal immigration, I would vote for anyone who could get rid of them.
I want a wall and I want them all deported whether they are from Newcastle, Nigeria, Novotroitsk, Nicaragua or Nuevo Laredo....I don't care!!! I am sick of it all!!!
Post by: Tecumseh on December 29, 2007, 02:06:49 AM
so what do you suggest be done when someone has neither? how long will you want the cops to hold them?just in case
If they are merely being arrested for a crime--we are not pulling random peeps off the streets--then if they are aliens, their docs have to be current or correct. If they are supposedly a citizen, their social, DL and/or birth certificate, or record of residency should clear them. Muy facil.So if they commit a traffic crime, they should then be forced to prove citizenship? I blew a stop sign, and now ICE is investigating me?
Post by: Tecumseh on December 29, 2007, 02:10:41 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on January 02, 2008, 05:51:29 AM
so what do you suggest be done when someone has neither? how long will you want the cops to hold them?just in case
If they are merely being arrested for a crime--we are not pulling random peeps off the streets--then if they are aliens, their docs have to be current or correct. If they are supposedly a citizen, their social, DL and/or birth certificate, or record of residency should clear them. Muy facil.So if they commit a traffic crime, they should then be forced to prove citizenship? I blew a stop sign, and now ICE is investigating me?
Yup! Personally, I'm sick of illegals without insurance who do blow through stop signs because they come from someplace where traffic laws are just a suggestion, and they have no respect for those laws, either...not that they respect the law, period, by being an illegal.
I don't see a problem. If you have a valid driver's license, there's your citizenship. Driving without a license, you go to jail anyway.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 02, 2008, 06:53:08 AM
you don't have to be a citizen to get a license.
nor are all those records as easily verified as folks imagine
Post by: Manedwolf on January 02, 2008, 06:57:53 AM
You sure do in mine!
I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.
Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 02, 2008, 07:02:16 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 02, 2008, 08:12:03 AM
or this
NonU.S. citizens temporarily residing in NH for the purpose of employment or attending a learning institution
must provide ONE of the following: visa for attending a learning institution, visa for employment, or visa including spouse or
dependent(s) of the above; ONE of the following: valid I-20 form or valid optical practical training card; and ONE of the following:
letter from applicants employer stating the applicants term of employment, or letter from the learning institution or employer
stating that the applicant is the spouse of a visa-holding student or employee.
Noncitizens permanently residing in New Hampshire must provide an SSN card and one of the following: valid
permanent resident card; valid I-94 card issued by the CIS indicating refugee status and date of entry into the U.S.; or valid
NonU.S. citizens permanently residing in NH without
an SSN may submit a letter from the SSA verifying that
they have not been issued an SSN. Nonresidents living
in New Hampshire on a temporary basis to go to school
or to work lawfully, or who are relatives of a lawfully
http://www.nilc.org/immspbs/DLs/state_dl_rqrmts_120504.pdf
Post by: MechAg94 on January 02, 2008, 12:47:28 PM
Post by: The Rabbi on January 02, 2008, 12:49:15 PM
In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!
I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.
Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.
You sure do in mine!
I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.
Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.
Every state. You don't need to be a citizen to do anything here except vote. I have sold 2 guns this year to non-citizens.
I also am sick of people who come from places where traffic laws are mere suggestions.
But I dont think we can deport people back to New Jersey.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 02, 2008, 08:33:45 PM
In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!
You sure do in mine!
I'm one of them awful, Mex-hatin' anti-immigration bigots, but I think you ought to check your facts on that.
People too often confuse citizenship with legal, non-citizen status.
Post by: Manedwolf on January 02, 2008, 08:47:33 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 03, 2008, 03:48:36 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on January 03, 2008, 05:17:58 AM
and they get their license while a student then they quit school or decide to stay after school do you imagine tat license is recovered by the state?
If they're here on a student visa and they quit school, their ass needs to be deported. Terrorists, hello? Remember that?
Post by: MechAg94 on January 03, 2008, 05:27:08 AM
As long as these guys are just responding to flags that come up in the system, I don't have an issue with it. If they are making people jump through hoops to get the handcuffs off, that is a different matter.
Post by: The Rabbi on January 03, 2008, 05:57:50 AM
If they still use the license after that, it will show up in the system that way when they show ID at the traffic stop or the arrest.
And then what?I had an immigrant the other day try to buy a gun. He was denied, I think on the basis of an expired visa.
Absolutely nothing is going to happen to him. INS is way too busy dealing with actual criminals to go round up and deport some Chaldean running a convenience market.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on January 03, 2008, 06:44:34 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on January 03, 2008, 09:00:41 AM
That has been one of the problems, IMO, with our immigration policy in the past. We had the capability to put a lid on most of the problem, but we weren't due to lack of effort, lack of will to do it, or lack of man power.
Post by: The Rabbi on January 03, 2008, 02:38:12 PM
That has been one of the problems, IMO, with our immigration policy in the past. We had the capability to put a lid on most of the problem, but we weren't due to lack of effort, lack of will to do it, or lack of man power.
You realize the fallacy of this statement, right?
Post by: Tecumseh on January 03, 2008, 05:27:52 PM
In what state do you not have to be a citizen to get a driver's license?
You sure do in mine!
I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.
Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.
I agree. Now how do we go about solving this problem without violating peoples 4th Amendment rights? And without turning the USA into a 1984 style of country.
You sure do in mine!
I've had it with with illegals. They're not undocumented, they're ILLEGAL. Willing lawbreakers who do not want to become Americans, they just want to steal from America, cheat America, take from America. I'm sick of the rampant identity theft, I'm sick of the hospitals about to fail because they can't turn away illegals who use the ER as a first-aid kit and then skip out on the bill and vanish, and I'm sick of things like a bunch of them just having a machete fight (!) on a public street in New England.
Deportation NOW. And federal prison if they come back.