Post by: Manedwolf on August 25, 2008, 05:37:17 AM
That's right. Because a black man managed to become a major party's candidate, they're afraid whites will "stop listening".
I am laughing my ass off.
Quote
August 25, 2008
Blacks Debate Civil Rights Risk in Obamas Rise
By RACHEL L. SWARNS
WASHINGTON On the night that Senator Barack Obama accepts the Democratic nomination for president, Roderick J. Harrison plans to pop open a bottle of Champagne and sit riveted before the television with his wife and 12-year-old son.
Mr. Harrison, a demographer who is black, says he expects to feel chills when Mr. Obama becomes the first black presidential candidate to lead a major party ticket. But as the Democratic convention gets under way, Mr. Harrisons anticipation is tempered by uneasiness as he wonders: Will Mr. Obamas success further the notion that the long struggle for racial equality has finally been won?
Mr. Obama has received overwhelming support from black voters, many of whom believe he will help bridge the nations racial divide. But even as they cheer him on, some black scholars, bloggers and others who closely follow the race worry that Mr. Obamas historic achievements might make it harder to rally support for policies intended to combat racial discrimination, racial inequities and urban poverty.
They fear that growing numbers of white voters and policy makers will decide that eradicating racial discrimination and ensuring equal opportunity have largely been done.
I worry that there is a segment of the population that might be harder to reach, average citizens who will say: Come on. We might have a black president, so we must be over it, said Mr. Harrison, 59, a sociologist at Howard University and a consultant for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies here.
That is the danger, that we declare victory, said Mr. Harrison, who fears that poor blacks will increasingly be blamed for their troubles. Historic as this moment is, it does not signify a major victory in the ongoing, daily battle.
Such concerns have been percolating in black intellectual circles for months, on talk radio and blogs, in dinner conversations, academic meetings and flurries of e-mail messages crisscrossing the country.
It can be an awkward discussion for Obama supporters who argue that the success of the candidate the man who might become Americas first black president might make it somewhat more difficult to advance an ambitious public policy agenda that helps blacks. Some of Mr. Obamas black supporters say that Mr. Obama himself, by rarely focusing on racial discrimination and urban poverty while campaigning, has often fueled the notion that the nation has transcended race.
Other supporters dismiss the idea that Mr. Obamas success might undermine support for race-based policies. They say black voters should focus not on speculative debates but instead on helping him win the presidency, because his emphasis on solutions to problems like failing schools, unemployment and inadequate health insurance would benefit blacks.
Last month, the debate bubbled up when The Root, a Web journal of black politics and culture, published a provocative essay titled President Obama: Monumental Success or Secret Setback?
If Obama becomes the president, every remaining, powerfully felt black grievance and every still deeply etched injustice will be cast out of the realm of polite discourse, wrote Lawrence Bobo, a black sociologist at Harvard University, who supports Mr. Obama and was outlining in the essay the concerns of some friends and colleagues. White folks will just stop listening.
Bev Smith, a black talk radio host whose program is based in Pittsburgh and syndicated nationally, said some of her listeners echoed those worries.
Theres an assumption now that weve made it, Ms. Smith said. Our concern is that well get lost in the shuffle.
The concerns have been driven in part by opponents of affirmative action who argue that race-based preferences in education and the workplace are increasingly irrelevant given the accomplishments of Mr. Obama and the growing black middle class.
Others, like Abigail Thernstrom, the vice chairwoman of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, say the creation of minority voting districts should be reconsidered, too, given Mr. Obamas success at wooing white voters in states like Iowa, Nebraska and Wyoming.
Ms. Thernstrom, who is white, said black and white academics who worried about the impact of Mr. Obamas achievement were engaging in habits of pessimism.
People feel that theres something callous, something racially indifferent in saying, Wait a minute; weve come a long way, said Ms. Thernstrom, a longtime critic of affirmative action who is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative research group.
But whether he wins or loses, for a black man to become a standard-bearer for one of the two major parties, it does say something, she said. It says that the road we started down in 1965 with the Voting Rights Act has come to an end. We dont need to talk about disfranchisement in the same way anymore.
The fortunes of black Americans have certainly improved since the civil rights struggle of the 1960s. The number of educated, professional blacks has grown as poverty rates have declined. About 17 percent of blacks held bachelors degrees in 2004, compared with 5 percent in 1970, census data shows. (About 30 percent of whites held bachelors degrees that year.) In 2005, college-educated black women who worked full time earned more than their white female counterparts, census data shows.
But significant gaps between blacks and whites remain. About a quarter of blacks lived below the poverty line in 2006, compared with 8 percent of whites, census data shows. The median income of blacks, $30,200, is less than two-thirds that of whites, $48,800. And studies suggest that employers often favor white job seekers over black applicants, even when their educational backgrounds and work experiences are nearly identical.
Such disparities might explain the differences in opinion that remain between blacks and whites.
In a New York Times/CBS News poll released last month, 53 percent of whites said that blacks and whites had about an equal chance of getting ahead in society. Only 30 percent of blacks agreed.
Blacks and whites were similarly divided over the state of race relations. Fifty-five percent of whites said race relations were generally good, compared with 29 percent of blacks. Nearly 60 percent of blacks said race relations were generally bad.
A few of my white friends have asked me, With Barack achieving all of this, will we be in a position where we can put race aside? said Representative Elijah E. Cummings, Democrat of Maryland, who is a co-chairman of Mr. Obamas campaign in that state.
Mr. Cummings said he points them to statistics on lingering racial disparities in education, health and income. I hope that progressive-minded people will not make a blanket conclusion that if Barack has made it, everybody can make it, he said.
Mr. Obama has occasionally made that point himself, noting that his candidacy alone will not resolve the nations lingering racial inequities.
I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy, particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own, Mr. Obama said in his speech on race in March.
As part of his urban policy plan, Mr. Obama promises to increase the minimum wage, expand affordable housing, provide full financing for community block grants and create a White House office of urban affairs. Some of his black supporters argue that it would be foolhardy for Mr. Obama to focus more on racial issues, particularly given that he needs to appeal to white voters who can be alienated by such talk.
Hes running for president of the United States, not president of the Urban League, said Jabari Asim, editor of The Crisis, the N.A.A.C.P. magazine, reiterating comments made by a fellow writer and editor. I think most people understand that he cant go out and push this overtly African-American agenda.
Mr. Harrison, the Howard University sociologist, worries that such political imperatives might make it less likely that an Obama administration would be inclined to confront entrenched racial divisions.
But he still plans to savor Mr. Obamas historic moment. He hopes that the nomination will lead to a national conversation about race relations and that the shifting political landscape might give rise to new strategies to address the legacies of Americas color line.
It will certainly shift the conversation, Mr. Harrison said. It might end up being another vehicle for people to press the same points. But it might also open a new chapter of the debate.
Blacks Debate Civil Rights Risk in Obamas Rise
By RACHEL L. SWARNS
WASHINGTON On the night that Senator Barack Obama accepts the Democratic nomination for president, Roderick J. Harrison plans to pop open a bottle of Champagne and sit riveted before the television with his wife and 12-year-old son.
Mr. Harrison, a demographer who is black, says he expects to feel chills when Mr. Obama becomes the first black presidential candidate to lead a major party ticket. But as the Democratic convention gets under way, Mr. Harrisons anticipation is tempered by uneasiness as he wonders: Will Mr. Obamas success further the notion that the long struggle for racial equality has finally been won?
Mr. Obama has received overwhelming support from black voters, many of whom believe he will help bridge the nations racial divide. But even as they cheer him on, some black scholars, bloggers and others who closely follow the race worry that Mr. Obamas historic achievements might make it harder to rally support for policies intended to combat racial discrimination, racial inequities and urban poverty.
They fear that growing numbers of white voters and policy makers will decide that eradicating racial discrimination and ensuring equal opportunity have largely been done.
I worry that there is a segment of the population that might be harder to reach, average citizens who will say: Come on. We might have a black president, so we must be over it, said Mr. Harrison, 59, a sociologist at Howard University and a consultant for the Joint Center for Political and Economic Studies here.
That is the danger, that we declare victory, said Mr. Harrison, who fears that poor blacks will increasingly be blamed for their troubles. Historic as this moment is, it does not signify a major victory in the ongoing, daily battle.
Such concerns have been percolating in black intellectual circles for months, on talk radio and blogs, in dinner conversations, academic meetings and flurries of e-mail messages crisscrossing the country.
It can be an awkward discussion for Obama supporters who argue that the success of the candidate the man who might become Americas first black president might make it somewhat more difficult to advance an ambitious public policy agenda that helps blacks. Some of Mr. Obamas black supporters say that Mr. Obama himself, by rarely focusing on racial discrimination and urban poverty while campaigning, has often fueled the notion that the nation has transcended race.
Other supporters dismiss the idea that Mr. Obamas success might undermine support for race-based policies. They say black voters should focus not on speculative debates but instead on helping him win the presidency, because his emphasis on solutions to problems like failing schools, unemployment and inadequate health insurance would benefit blacks.
Last month, the debate bubbled up when The Root, a Web journal of black politics and culture, published a provocative essay titled President Obama: Monumental Success or Secret Setback?
If Obama becomes the president, every remaining, powerfully felt black grievance and every still deeply etched injustice will be cast out of the realm of polite discourse, wrote Lawrence Bobo, a black sociologist at Harvard University, who supports Mr. Obama and was outlining in the essay the concerns of some friends and colleagues. White folks will just stop listening.
Bev Smith, a black talk radio host whose program is based in Pittsburgh and syndicated nationally, said some of her listeners echoed those worries.
Theres an assumption now that weve made it, Ms. Smith said. Our concern is that well get lost in the shuffle.
The concerns have been driven in part by opponents of affirmative action who argue that race-based preferences in education and the workplace are increasingly irrelevant given the accomplishments of Mr. Obama and the growing black middle class.
Others, like Abigail Thernstrom, the vice chairwoman of the United States Commission on Civil Rights, say the creation of minority voting districts should be reconsidered, too, given Mr. Obamas success at wooing white voters in states like Iowa, Nebraska and Wyoming.
Ms. Thernstrom, who is white, said black and white academics who worried about the impact of Mr. Obamas achievement were engaging in habits of pessimism.
People feel that theres something callous, something racially indifferent in saying, Wait a minute; weve come a long way, said Ms. Thernstrom, a longtime critic of affirmative action who is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, a conservative research group.
But whether he wins or loses, for a black man to become a standard-bearer for one of the two major parties, it does say something, she said. It says that the road we started down in 1965 with the Voting Rights Act has come to an end. We dont need to talk about disfranchisement in the same way anymore.
The fortunes of black Americans have certainly improved since the civil rights struggle of the 1960s. The number of educated, professional blacks has grown as poverty rates have declined. About 17 percent of blacks held bachelors degrees in 2004, compared with 5 percent in 1970, census data shows. (About 30 percent of whites held bachelors degrees that year.) In 2005, college-educated black women who worked full time earned more than their white female counterparts, census data shows.
But significant gaps between blacks and whites remain. About a quarter of blacks lived below the poverty line in 2006, compared with 8 percent of whites, census data shows. The median income of blacks, $30,200, is less than two-thirds that of whites, $48,800. And studies suggest that employers often favor white job seekers over black applicants, even when their educational backgrounds and work experiences are nearly identical.
Such disparities might explain the differences in opinion that remain between blacks and whites.
In a New York Times/CBS News poll released last month, 53 percent of whites said that blacks and whites had about an equal chance of getting ahead in society. Only 30 percent of blacks agreed.
Blacks and whites were similarly divided over the state of race relations. Fifty-five percent of whites said race relations were generally good, compared with 29 percent of blacks. Nearly 60 percent of blacks said race relations were generally bad.
A few of my white friends have asked me, With Barack achieving all of this, will we be in a position where we can put race aside? said Representative Elijah E. Cummings, Democrat of Maryland, who is a co-chairman of Mr. Obamas campaign in that state.
Mr. Cummings said he points them to statistics on lingering racial disparities in education, health and income. I hope that progressive-minded people will not make a blanket conclusion that if Barack has made it, everybody can make it, he said.
Mr. Obama has occasionally made that point himself, noting that his candidacy alone will not resolve the nations lingering racial inequities.
I have never been so naïve as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy, particularly a candidacy as imperfect as my own, Mr. Obama said in his speech on race in March.
As part of his urban policy plan, Mr. Obama promises to increase the minimum wage, expand affordable housing, provide full financing for community block grants and create a White House office of urban affairs. Some of his black supporters argue that it would be foolhardy for Mr. Obama to focus more on racial issues, particularly given that he needs to appeal to white voters who can be alienated by such talk.
Hes running for president of the United States, not president of the Urban League, said Jabari Asim, editor of The Crisis, the N.A.A.C.P. magazine, reiterating comments made by a fellow writer and editor. I think most people understand that he cant go out and push this overtly African-American agenda.
Mr. Harrison, the Howard University sociologist, worries that such political imperatives might make it less likely that an Obama administration would be inclined to confront entrenched racial divisions.
But he still plans to savor Mr. Obamas historic moment. He hopes that the nomination will lead to a national conversation about race relations and that the shifting political landscape might give rise to new strategies to address the legacies of Americas color line.
It will certainly shift the conversation, Mr. Harrison said. It might end up being another vehicle for people to press the same points. But it might also open a new chapter of the debate.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/us/politics/25race.html?em
Post by: K Frame on August 25, 2008, 05:46:50 AM
I find this article to be more than a little disturbing.
Post by: Ezekiel on August 25, 2008, 05:58:05 AM
I am hoping such occurs.
As an American Indian with degrees, good job, a measure of success, etc., I am constantly asked to be apologist for those who have not. My answer, typically defined as Elitist, is for them to go to school, get a job (and hold it), cease spending their $$$ on Mad Dog 20/20 and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway.
Victimhood, especially when self-induced, should no longer be "polite."
Any system that makes you a pawn should be rejected.
Instead, folks thank the man upstairs for their pawn-hood.
SAD.
Post by: Firethorn on August 25, 2008, 06:04:04 AM
I'm going to move this one into Politics.
Is this a first Mike? Moving a thread into politics?
My thought on the article: I'm one of the whites that believes that we've more or less 'gotten there'. The problems remaining have more to do with a culture of entitlement that helps to keep down low income people.
Much of modern racism is spawned by the very 'equal opportunity' measures that were supposed to stop racism, as people are denied positions because their skin is too light, creating resentment, and a corresponding seeing of a higher proportion of screw-ups of color due to less qualified candidates getting the position.
Looking at the statistics quoted, even a colorblind poverty aid system will help blacks, proportionally, 3X as often as it helps a 'white'. Going by population demographics, it should be about equal.
Getting rid of affirmative action, or at least scaling it back, would go a long ways towards ending this remaining source of racism. Reforming welfare and aid to stop the degeneration of marriage among poor urbanites - disproportionally black, would help as well. In a tough love kind of way, I'll admit.
Post by: Ezekiel on August 25, 2008, 06:09:53 AM
Much of modern racism is spawned by the very 'equal opportunity' measures that were supposed to stop racism, as people are denied positions because their skin is too light, creating resentment, and a corresponding seeing of a higher proportion of screw-ups of color due to less qualified candidates getting the position.
I am not certain that I could agree more.
With the reciprocal, "he just got the job because he's whitey," so everyone is mad.
Um, have you looked at his resume? (PhD) Have you looked at yours? (GED) Really. it's because he's white, huh? Who knew?
BAH.
Post by: longeyes on August 25, 2008, 07:10:49 AM
Of course truth is the real enemy. The class war isn't going to end until envy, greed, and self-delusion end. It isn't the slavery of the past that's the problem, it's the slavery of the present that is the problem and how many people in today's America are quite content to be new-age serfs.
Post by: K Frame on August 25, 2008, 07:23:14 AM
I don't think so.
Post by: Thor on August 25, 2008, 08:15:05 AM
Post by: MechAg94 on August 25, 2008, 09:33:04 AM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 25, 2008, 09:34:43 AM
Post by: longeyes on August 25, 2008, 09:49:53 AM
Post by: Werewolf on August 25, 2008, 09:52:57 AM
Quote
That is the danger, that we declare victory, said Mr. Harrison, who fears that poor blacks will increasingly be blamed for their troubles.
Ahhhh...
The personal responsibility bug-a-boo. God forbid that folks be held responsible for the poor choices they make in their lives and the consequences thereof.
Post by: Jamisjockey on August 25, 2008, 09:53:40 AM
Quote
and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway
Gasp! How dare you?!?
Hey, we agree on something!!!!
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on August 25, 2008, 09:56:35 AM
Post by: Dntsycnt on August 25, 2008, 10:41:50 AM
We need to stop being such a polite freaking society...or at least less self conscious and guilt ridden.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 25, 2008, 10:51:47 AM
A colorblind society is the last thing the race industry wants.
too true the industry is as useful as the war on drugs and only slightly less messy.
when i worked fot ara i was shipped around to trouble accounts. either to bust/block unions or to unravel race troubles. and it paid extra
Post by: Perd Hapley on August 25, 2008, 01:00:29 PM
Post by: sumpnz on August 25, 2008, 01:24:42 PM
I'm starting to wonder what will happen if Obama loses. Especially if it is (as I suspect it will be) a very close election. The dispute could make Florida 2000 look downright sleepy by comparison.
I predict riots in LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, and probably a dozen other large cities after the election. If Obama wins it'll be "celebration" riots. If he looses it'll be "race" riots. Regardless, there will be riots.
Post by: French G. on August 25, 2008, 01:49:32 PM
Quote
I'm starting to wonder what will happen if Obama loses. Especially if it is (as I suspect it will be) a very close election. The dispute could make Florida 2000 look downright sleepy by comparison.
Some Obama supporters will riot. Then, the internet will blow up, leading to a world economic collapse, which naturally leads to war famine and looting. The failure of the internet will be traced back to an unheard of number of OMG the SHasHTF posts on a popular website known as TheHighRoad.org.
Post by: Gowen on August 25, 2008, 02:16:33 PM
I'm starting to wonder what will happen if Obama loses. Especially if it is (as I suspect it will be) a very close election. The dispute could make Florida 2000 look downright sleepy by comparison.
In all seriousness, I am going to be loaded for bear by election day. I don't see this as pretty either outcome. To bad it is not a black Republican running, we would not be facing the same thing. Black Republicans are seen as oreos and don't count to the hood mentality.
Post by: longeyes on August 25, 2008, 02:29:46 PM
Post by: xavier fremboe on August 25, 2008, 02:53:45 PM
Quote
That is the danger, that we declare victory, said Mr. Harrison, who fears that poor blacks will increasingly be blamed for their troubles. Historic as this moment is, it does not signify a major victory in the ongoing, daily battle.
I was going to try to figure out how you can not declare victory, but I felt my head would explode.
Post by: Ezekiel on August 25, 2008, 04:53:15 PM
Quote
and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway
Gasp! How dare you?!?
Hey, we agree on something!!!!
While the fact that we agree is somewhat alarming...
...we've stumbled onto a real issue: apologists.When Obama is elected (he will be), the folks trailing for a free lunch will desire theirs, ASAP. I don't really think he's going to give it to them, making him a "high, yellow, turncoat."
Post election, his troubles will have just started.
Then, the disillusionment will TRULY begin.
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on August 25, 2008, 04:57:17 PM
Post by: stevelyn on August 26, 2008, 03:57:26 AM
Unlike the majority of black Americans who are descendants of African slaves, Obama is the son of a foreign national and lived a way different life overseas for quite a few years. He was never indoctrinated to the victimhood subculture pedaled by the likes of Al Charlatan and Jesse "Shakedown" Jackson.
I'm sure in his mind he believes there is no reason anyone who applies themselves shouldn't succeed in life. And of course he's correct. Individuals are for the most part are in control of their own destinies by the decisions they make.
Quote
As an American Indian with degrees, good job, a measure of success, etc., I am constantly asked to be apologist for those who have not. My answer, typically defined as Elitist, is for them to go to school, get a job (and hold it), cease spending their $$$ on Mad Dog 20/20 and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway.
Zeke,
Being defined as "elitist" is actually pretty mild.
Up here in Alaska, the village ne'er-do-wells would be calling you an apple. I see the same thing here. People with more opportunity than most, pissing away the chance of an education and choosing booze, HUD housing and govt handouts instead.
Post by: Manedwolf on August 26, 2008, 03:58:58 AM
Quote
and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway
Gasp! How dare you?!?
Hey, we agree on something!!!!
While the fact that we agree is somewhat alarming...
...we've stumbled onto a real issue: apologists.When Obama is elected (he will be), the folks trailing for a free lunch will desire theirs, ASAP. I don't really think he's going to give it to them, making him a "high, yellow, turncoat."
Post election, his troubles will have just started.
Then, the disillusionment will TRULY begin.
If it wasn't for the fact that I think he will truly help push through mandatory gun registration and put hardcore liberals on the court, neither of which is reversible once done, I would say that he would be a fine example of democrat incompetence and that, if he was elected, it would be like choking the liberals with everything they thought they wanted, until they realize just how awful it is in reality.
As it is, though, we can't afford the damage he would do, especially to the second amendment.
Post by: AJ Dual on August 26, 2008, 06:26:08 AM
If it wasn't for the fact that I think he will truly help push through mandatory gun registration and put hardcore liberals on the court, neither of which is reversible once done, I would say that he would be a fine example of democrat incompetence and that, if he was elected, it would be like choking the liberals with everything they thought they wanted, until they realize just how awful it is in reality.
As it is, though, we can't afford the damage he would do, especially to the second amendment.
As it is, though, we can't afford the damage he would do, especially to the second amendment.
I think it's worse than that.
If an Obama admin and a Democrat controlled Congress makes any real push for gun control, in the Post-Heller era, they're going to have to use every creative end-run tactic in the book to get around it. And that's going to set up all sorts of dangerous precedents for Constitutional problems, fiat governance, and separation of powers issues that will be with us in all sorts of other areas beyond the erosion of RKBA.
OTOH, the radioactivity of the gun issue, the Heller decision, and (presumed) Democrat supremacy in both houses and the white house, could just gut the gun issue as a needed wedge issue, since there's no need for wedging when you have control.
And as to what the impact of an Obama Presidency or loss would have on the "race problem" in the U.S. I think it's all been said. It's complicated and I don't know what exactly will happen.
- Obama loses. Riots yes/no? Some final disillusionment. "It was rigged, the man kept us down again" type of sentiment?
- Obama wins. He's hemmed in by the realties of office and politics. Nothing changes. Disillusionment in "President Oreo"?
- Obama wins. Total liberal orgy of new social spending. And just like all the other decades of social spending, nothing changes, or it actually makes things worse for them. And it weakens the American economy, hurting them further. Do they care? Yes/no? Or is it okay, since they seem to tolerate their current crop of worthless "civil rights leaders", and having "their guy" as POTUS, who does as little for them as Jesse and ilk have is status-quo?
- Obama wins. It causes the race debate to end, like these minority leaders fear. Then what? Poor minorities start the real crawl to responsibility/stability that's needed to truly improve their lot? Does the economic damage, and welfare dependency of a liberal administration short-circuit, and eat that up, just like LBJ's "great society" derailed the civil rights movement?
I dunno. Despite our desire to pigeon hole everything, as usual in real life, I think it'll be some muddled combination of "all of the above".
Post by: longeyes on August 26, 2008, 06:39:12 AM
Post by: Antibubba on August 26, 2008, 07:09:46 PM
Quote
Ms. Smith said. Our concern is that well get lost in the shuffle.
Once you've been the "privileged" minority, with a greater claim to past injustices than any other minority (as the Native Americans might quite rightly contest), it's hard to become "just another" minority.
Quote
I predict riots in LA, Chicago, Detroit, DC, and probably a dozen other large cities after the election.
Because nothing says "Injustice!" like trashing your equally-poor neighbor's car and setting fire to the few businesses who care enough to locate in your neighborhood.
Quote
When Obama is elected (he will be), the folks trailing for a free lunch will desire theirs, ASAP. I don't really think he's going to give it to them, making him a "high, yellow, turncoat."
Post election, his troubles will have just started.
Then, the disillusionment will TRULY begin.
Post election, his troubles will have just started.
Then, the disillusionment will TRULY begin.
Zeke, that's spot on, though I don't think the Jesse Jackson's of the movement think that, and are preparing themselves accordingly. But though he's disavowed himself of the Rev. Wright's viewpoints, Obama attended the man's church for twenty years! You think he somehow missed the rhetoric in all that time? Or maybe he slept through the sermons.
Post by: RocketMan on August 26, 2008, 07:52:15 PM
Quote
and -- perhaps -- accept personal accountability. i.e., get over stuff that happened in the 1880s, that never happened to them, anyway
Gasp! How dare you?!?
Hey, we agree on something!!!!
While the fact that we agree is somewhat alarming...
...we've stumbled onto a real issue: apologists.When Obama is elected (he will be), the folks trailing for a free lunch will desire theirs, ASAP. I don't really think he's going to give it to them, making him a "high, yellow, turncoat."
Post election, his troubles will have just started.
Then, the disillusionment will TRULY begin.
A very interesting take, Zeke. I wonder how many others are thinking and wondering about this? It will certainly be entertaining to watch, should it happen.