Post by: MicroBalrog on September 24, 2008, 04:05:03 PM
I am seeking and would greatly appreciate donations to help with the cost of litigation. You can use Paypal (olegvolk@gmail.com (http://mailto:olegvolk@gmail.com)) or send a check to:
Oleg Volk 3112 Chambley Ct Hermitage, TN 37076
All donations shall be returned if the lawsuit is ultimately avoided. You can also aid me by re-posting this appeal on your blog, forum or web site. My legal position is already endorsed by almost all of The High Road staff as well as Rich Lucibella, the founder of The Firing Line forum.
</div>
<a href="http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html" target="_blank">http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html[/url]
Post by: 41magsnub on September 24, 2008, 04:07:15 PM
Post by: RocketMan on September 24, 2008, 04:14:15 PM
Post by: 41magsnub on September 24, 2008, 04:15:24 PM
Not good. Isn't Derek the sys admin here as well?
yep
Post by: Bigjake on September 24, 2008, 04:15:35 PM
Post by: Hawkmoon on September 24, 2008, 04:21:19 PM
Tough times here in Hawkmoonville, but I dug up some pennies for the Jeep site and I'll dig up some more for Oleg ...
Post by: 41magsnub on September 24, 2008, 04:22:14 PM
Post by: K Frame on September 24, 2008, 04:28:19 PM
As far as I know, none of the staff here has been contacted regarding this matter.
I'm going to close this for now, but will post updates as necessary.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 24, 2008, 06:03:50 PM
Details of THR shutdown and related perfidy: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
Post by: Sindawe on September 24, 2008, 07:09:44 PM
Quote
...hasn't been of much interest to Derek so far
So far being the operative phrase. Otherwise sane, rational people have been known to come unglued when their perceived power and authority is challenged.
Keep up updated Oleg. Now, where did I put that checkbook.....
Post by: nico on September 24, 2008, 07:12:16 PM
This makes me glad I didn't send Derek money when he was asking for donations last year (felt kinda guilty at the time).
Post by: TheBluesMan on September 24, 2008, 07:15:23 PM
When news of this went public, I addressed a few questions about it in the General Discussion Forum. John Shirley didn't like that, so he moved the thread to a hidden part of the forum. Either Shirley or Zeanah also removed my administrator access. Guess he didn't like me playing the role of Nathan to his David.
There is no reason for the forums to be shut down except to keep the word from spreading. I expect that this post, my membership here and probably this entire thread will also disappear soon as Zeanah tries to hide his tracks.
Support Oleg: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
Post by: Nolo on September 24, 2008, 07:26:03 PM
(First I am a refugee of Hurricane Ike in College Station... now I am a refugee of Hurricane Derek at APS...)
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 24, 2008, 07:27:14 PM
Wait, Derek doesn't control APS, too, does he?
I believe he does.
Post by: Nolo on September 24, 2008, 07:29:21 PM
Deer Hunter's here, too.
I would say some things about Derek before the lights go out...
But I can use that breath for better things.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 24, 2008, 07:29:46 PM
Post by: Nolo on September 24, 2008, 07:33:25 PM
Quote
Derek controls the server on which APS resides. Tyme and I are locked out of it, so I can't move APS content. If he shuts it down, I have another server on which we can start fresh and with better software.
With the same address?
Post by: akodo2 on September 24, 2008, 07:33:53 PM
good luck oleg
Post by: Headless Thompson Gunner on September 24, 2008, 07:36:31 PM
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 24, 2008, 07:38:17 PM
Quote
it sounds like at least a few staffers are with derek, which ones are those?
John Shirley is the only one who sided with Derek. He claims that I can't be trusted with the welfare of The High Road.
A couple are waiting on the side-lines. The rest (20+) are with me.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2008, 07:39:33 PM
Derek controls the server on which APS resides. Tyme and I are locked out of it, so I can't move APS content. If he shuts it down, I have another server on which we can start fresh and with better software.
Hope it behaves like Simple Machines, not Vbulletin.
Good luck. And if it's elsewhere, I'd hope to see everyone there.
Post by: Myself on September 24, 2008, 07:45:30 PM
Post by: roo_ster on September 24, 2008, 07:46:24 PM
Quote
it sounds like at least a few staffers are with derek, which ones are those?
John Shirley is the only one who sided with Derek. He tried to prove that I am mentally unbalanced and can't be trusted with the welfare of The High Road.
A couple are waiting on the side-lines. The rest (20+) are with me.
Hokay, now.
Well, since it was your creation, it really is yours to deep-six if you are of a mind to.
I did a google on Derek and his various weblogs, sites, etc. Not much activity since 2007. I'm thinking this is something that has been brewing in his mind for some time and is a symptom of something gone badly out od whack with him.
Good luck on your efforts, OV.
Also, his idea is really messed up. How many folks are going to advertise on a site with a lawsuit in the mix? I can guarantee the advertiser will get the skinny.
Post by: The Annoyed Man on September 24, 2008, 07:51:06 PM
Post by: Deer Hunter on September 24, 2008, 07:55:41 PM
I can't believe people would actually side with this Derek guy. Oleg, you've got my support. I may scrape up some money this week for the cause.
Post by: Regolith on September 24, 2008, 08:13:31 PM
Good luck Oleg. I wish I could contribute, but I'm a bit financially disadvantaged at the moment myself, so I guess my well wishes will have to do.
Post by: Ryan in Maine on September 24, 2008, 08:16:31 PM
Take care, man. It doesn't sound like you're losing your cool at all, but let me know if I should send kava.
Post by: roo_ster on September 24, 2008, 08:29:36 PM
1. This thread will be gone
2. THR will be a regular disco-ball of banner ads with zombie moderators
Post by: gunsmith on September 24, 2008, 08:32:01 PM
me really only have their love of gun activism to get through some of life's
curve balls.
I will be getting back on my feet soon-hopefully I can kick in a few bucks.
I pray though that its not necessary to go to court and it can go back to friends helping friends.
thr-gunsmith.
Post by: evan price on September 24, 2008, 08:39:11 PM
Just freaking swell. One of the best firearms stops on the 'net laid low by stupidity & greed.
They banned me on TFL for arguing about the NRA (I realize I was in the wrong and joined the NRA) so I guess that's all she wrote for me.
Thanks, Derek.
*expletive deleted*bag.
Post by: Balog on September 24, 2008, 09:16:31 PM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 24, 2008, 09:18:55 PM
Post by: freakazoid on September 24, 2008, 09:20:51 PM
Even though I'm not doing to well on money I will try to send a few bucks your way.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2008, 09:24:29 PM
If APS goes down or is otherwise screwed with, I propose we all meet at thefiringline.com, to figure out what to do next.
No thanks.
Someplace new, sure.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 24, 2008, 09:25:33 PM
Post by: Balog on September 24, 2008, 09:27:59 PM
If APS goes down or is otherwise screwed with, I propose we all meet at thefiringline.com, to figure out what to do next.
No thanks.
Someplace new, sure.
What issue do you have with TFL? We need someplace to go, and TFL is well known.....
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2008, 09:31:14 PM
If APS goes down or is otherwise screwed with, I propose we all meet at thefiringline.com, to figure out what to do next.
No thanks.
Someplace new, sure.
What issue do you have with TFL? We need someplace to go, and TFL is well known.....
You think THR is the only place that has mods with issues who have knocked people off for petty politics? I'll leave it at that.
I would think one of the "set up free board" things might suffice temporarily. Yahoo used to absolutely blow, is there anything better now?
Post by: RocketMan on September 24, 2008, 09:32:02 PM
Would that be acceptable to Oleg and Co., and everyone else?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 24, 2008, 09:32:13 PM
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 24, 2008, 09:32:46 PM
Derek locked me and everyone else off the server though, so APS db is a hostage, same as THR db.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 24, 2008, 09:35:07 PM
If APS is closed, I simply re-point the registry to another server. So it will be back.
Derek locked me and everyone else off the server though, so APS db is a hostage, same as THR db.
Derek locked me and everyone else off the server though, so APS db is a hostage, same as THR db.
Coolness.
Thanks for your effort in this, I was going to send along a donation tomorrow.
Post by: S. Williamson on September 24, 2008, 10:49:40 PM
Post by: PTK on September 25, 2008, 12:44:26 AM
Post by: wmenorr67 on September 25, 2008, 01:17:23 AM
Deleted to take the High Road.
Post by: Ex-MA Hole on September 25, 2008, 01:42:03 AM
),OV will have his hands full....in the event that this site goes down, you can email me at:
mrgoldblatt@yahoo.com.
I will give whatever updates I have....
Oleg- feel free to use me as an info source as needed...
I will state publically and for the record that I side with Oleg on this.
Post by: Lennyjoe on September 25, 2008, 01:55:45 AM
Post by: 280plus on September 25, 2008, 02:00:18 AM
Derek went pirate. How old is he?
Kinda broke myself right now so I'll hold back in reserve for the moment and see how things go but if funds are needed down the way I'll scrounge something together.
Falade@snet.net
First name Mark.
Post by: hso on September 25, 2008, 03:06:41 AM
Quote
John Shirley is the only one who sided with Derek. He claims that I can't be trusted with the welfare of The High Road.
A couple are waiting on the side-lines. The rest (20+) are with me.
A couple are waiting on the side-lines. The rest (20+) are with me.
The questions and answers are more complex than that. This has been going on in the background for nearly two months and the debate has gone from lively to ugly. Who's siding with who depends upon which of the myriad questions is being asked. The discussion has turned acrimonious and has resulted in some Mods saying it's a private matter between Oleg and Derek and withdrawing from the discussion to do their "jobs" until a resolution comes about. A couple of Mods have resigned.
Certainly, almost all of the Staff thinks Derek should transfer complete control of THR to Oleg, but there are layers beyond that where not everyone agrees. Plenty of folks shouting past each other.
In my opinion complete trust in anyone no longer exists amongst the Staff at THR.
Post by: Sergeant Bob on September 25, 2008, 03:27:56 AM
Interesting? Maybe. However, I don't think it would be a good idea to stir the pot any more than necessary. Oleg is handling it and I think harassing Derek will only make it tougher for him.
Post by: TexasRifleman on September 25, 2008, 03:36:07 AM
Quote
Interesting? Maybe. However, I don't think it would be a good idea to stir the pot any more than necessary. Oleg is handling it and I think harassing Derek will only make it tougher for him.
If his plan is to place banner ads and make some money, he needs to know he won't have many customers. Even if Oleg can't get the THR name back the site will sink pretty quickly without him and many others that would leave.
No members, no ad click through revenue.
Should see if Derek will just sell the domain name for a flat price. Be easier for him than going to court if all he wants to do is line his pockets.
I've been on THR pretty much from day one and I don't think I ever saw Derek post a single thing about firearms or 2A anyway.
Post by: MicroBalrog on September 25, 2008, 03:45:13 AM
Quote
Should see if Derek will just sell the domain name for a flat price. Be easier for him than going to court if all he wants to do is line his pockets.
Oleg offered to buy it back for $75,000. Derek refused, apparently.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 03:45:24 AM
Post by: TexasRifleman on September 25, 2008, 03:47:57 AM
Post by: buzz_knox on September 25, 2008, 03:51:51 AM
Someone want to send an e-mail to Apple A Day so we can get Hurricane Flu II on here or some other location?
Post by: Gewehr98 on September 25, 2008, 03:55:18 AM
APS still has standards that have not been replaced by lynch mob mentality, or at least I didn't get the note.
Yeah, it isn't a good thing, and I'd be plenty torqued if I were Oleg, too.
However, you want that individual's personal information, go dig it up yourself, and then keep it to yourself. You want part of the action, name yourself as a co-litigant.
Lest we forget, until legal actions have been decided, Derek still hold the keys to this forum, too. Remember how much online poo gets flung as this whole deal goes down, nothing would stop a pissed-off website admin from just shutting APS down pending that resolution. He's already done it to THR. Regardless of the reason(s), be it Mutiny, Hostile Takeover, Staff Insurrection, Subterfuge, Infighting, My **** Is Bigger Than Your ****, Anti-RKBA Infiltrators, whatever - more of the story will surface, as HSO alluded to previously in this thread. In the meantime, let's keep the conjecture down to a mild roar, ok?
Post by: TexasRifleman on September 25, 2008, 04:00:42 AM
Quote
You want part of the action, name yourself as a co-litigant.
Yeah, I'm in on that. Email on the way to Oleg.
Post by: Gewehr98 on September 25, 2008, 04:01:18 AM
Quote
Thu, Sep. 25th, 2008, 07:41 pm
Going to court.
Going to court.
Oleg, how did you manage to post that in the future?
(Or is LiveJournal off by 24 hours?)
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 04:05:04 AM
Speaking of odd stuff...
Oleg, how did you manage to post that in the future?
(Or is LiveJournal off by 24 hours?)
Quote
Thu, Sep. 25th, 2008, 07:41 pm
Going to court.
Going to court.
Oleg, how did you manage to post that in the future?
(Or is LiveJournal off by 24 hours?)
I've noticed that LJ's timestamps can be a bit...creative ever since it was taken over by its new Russian owners. I have to wonder if they went low-bidder on their DBA.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 04:06:41 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 04:46:49 AM
Post by: Sindawe on September 25, 2008, 04:53:48 AM
Quote
With all due respect for Oleg (and there is much respect)... Sorry folks. We have a tried and tested rule here on TFL. We Don't publicly discuss other Boards.
I'm leaving the initial post of the other thread in this one, as it serves for the notification and contact information.
Please, Take all other posts about this to PM or Email.
I'm leaving the initial post of the other thread in this one, as it serves for the notification and contact information.
Please, Take all other posts about this to PM or Email.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 04:55:07 AM
Post by: Sindawe on September 25, 2008, 05:00:10 AM
Post by: Doc2005 on September 25, 2008, 05:13:01 AM
Well this is a fine mess. As I see it, the truth is known, and it can't be re-written, or warped. It has always been common knowledge that THR is Oleg's baby. There are a lot of folks here who will bide out time until this resolves. In the event you decide to take a new name for THR, let us know. We'll all filter in there. Just a shame that Derek had to take The Low Road.
Keep your spirit up, Oleg, and everyone else,
Doc2005
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2008, 05:17:58 AM
Quote
I'll have the board up shortly after 11 o'clock EST. I realize everyone is anxious for the board to be live again. Thank you for your patience.
Gonna be a rough ride, folks.
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2008, 05:27:45 AM
I suspect you are trying to clean up this mess as best as possible, but some thought as to preventing a like occurrence in the future might be in order.
I have a little IT experience and am moderately paranoid & sneaky, but APS member RevDisk seems to have the needle pegged on the IT, paranoid, & sneaky detectors. Might be a good resource to query on securing THR in the future.
Post by: lee n. field on September 25, 2008, 05:38:54 AM
Quote
You can use Paypal (olegvolk@gmail.com)
Sent a bit your way.
THR down and Freerepublic.com with a current database problem. <pout, pout>. Well, an Internet fast will do me good.
Post by: Nitrogen on September 25, 2008, 05:41:56 AM
I currently work for a pretty high powered hosting provider. While i doubt I could get you hosted for free or low cost where I work, I'd be more than happy to help out if you'd need it with manpower or advice. While i'm sure you're getting tons of offers, consider it one more.
Post by: ilbob on September 25, 2008, 06:18:31 AM
Well isn't this something.
I can't believe people would actually side with this Derek guy. Oleg, you've got my support. I may scrape up some money this week for the cause.
I can't believe people would actually side with this Derek guy. Oleg, you've got my support. I may scrape up some money this week for the cause.
Since most of us only know a tiny piece of one side of the situation, it might be more believable if you knew something of the other side. Its hard to side with anyone in the absence of any real information.
In any case, a rogue admin is a very dangerous situation for a web site.
THR has a message saying it will be back up after 11 est. Its 1115 est and still not up. I wonder what the game is.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 06:23:50 AM
Absolutely do NOT post personal information for anyone involved in this matter anywhere on this board. Doing so will result in an instant and permanent ban.
As Oleg has stated, this appears to be going for litigation.
Anything that is said on this site, as it belongs to Oleg and was intended to be an adjunct to THR, could potentially affect any litigation. Please keep that in mind as you post.
Also, when THR comes back up, please do not go in there with a vengeance. Again, any activities there by members who have posted here could conceivably affect any litigation.
Post by: Antibubba on September 25, 2008, 06:25:40 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 06:27:00 AM
Also, when THR comes back up, please do not go in there with a vengeance. Again, any activities there by members who have posted here could conceivably affect any litigation.
I would say "just don't go in there."
Nothing is louder than an empty room.
Post by: TexasRifleman on September 25, 2008, 06:28:02 AM
Quote
I would say "just don't go in there."
Nothing is louder than an empty room.
Nothing is louder than an empty room.
I think that's a wise move. Just spectate quietly for now. No reason to go in making noises, get banned, all that silliness.
Just watch from the sides for a while.
Just gun talk and business as usual for now.
Post by: Nick1911 on September 25, 2008, 06:39:48 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 06:41:19 AM
Post by: Nitrogen on September 25, 2008, 06:46:38 AM
Quote from: TheBluesMan
Mutiny on The High Road
Derek Zeanah has succeeded, temporarily, in stealing this website from its rightful owner, Oleg Volk. A lawsuit will be filed within days. Details here: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
He has also removed from staff the loudest voices of dissent including Oleg and myself. Through an oversight on his part, I still have access to the forum announcements.
It is unlikely that any members will ever read this, but it is possible that a staff member may see it while the board is shut down. If you were unconvinced of Derek's treachery before, perhaps this will convince you of his true colors.
Derek Zeanah is a thief. I played Nathan to his David in private and this is how he responds. What is left of his reputation online is about to be demolished by this desperate act.
Add your comments to this situation here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667
or here: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...=928088&page=2
or here: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/in...?topic=14960.0
Derek Zeanah has succeeded, temporarily, in stealing this website from its rightful owner, Oleg Volk. A lawsuit will be filed within days. Details here: http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
He has also removed from staff the loudest voices of dissent including Oleg and myself. Through an oversight on his part, I still have access to the forum announcements.
It is unlikely that any members will ever read this, but it is possible that a staff member may see it while the board is shut down. If you were unconvinced of Derek's treachery before, perhaps this will convince you of his true colors.
Derek Zeanah is a thief. I played Nathan to his David in private and this is how he responds. What is left of his reputation online is about to be demolished by this desperate act.
Add your comments to this situation here: http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=761667
or here: http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthre...=928088&page=2
or here: http://www.armedpolitesociety.com/in...?topic=14960.0
Post by: Sindawe on September 25, 2008, 06:47:37 AM
Glad the site is back online, but not about the "drama" that is occuring.
Post by: Balog on September 25, 2008, 06:52:15 AM
Post by: Nitrogen on September 25, 2008, 06:52:28 AM
Quote from: Derek Zenah
Drama Warning
I'm sorry I had to leave such a vague message while the board was down these last 12 hours. Some legal threats were made, and I thought it prudent to get legal advice before reacting.
For nearly six years THR has operated as a voluntary community. Oleg has been the face of the board. I assembled and provided the engine. While user contributions were appreciated, I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7 and ahead of our ever-growing user demand. The moderators kept things on an even keel, and over 75,000 others have contributed to make the board what it now is. I'm very proud of what we've become, and Im committed most of all that the Board remain a place we are all proud of and where we all feel at home.
To my deep regret, during these last few weeks an issue that Oleg and I should have worked out privately has become an increasingly public dispute. I deeply regret this development and apologize for having been unable to work through our differences in a less harmful manner. This is an internal dispute, and should not have gotten out in the open forum to be the distraction it has become.
During this time, I have continued to operate THR on exactly the same basis you have come to expect. My assertion this entire time is that the status quo should be maintained unless THR staff decide otherwise, and that we should use a rational process to evaluate potential changes. Having said that, THR has grown substantially these last few years, and our continued growth makes some kind of change inevitable in order to pay for the increasing resource commitments our growth requires.
As far back as I can remember Oleg and have had the understanding that we were joint owners. A few weeks ago, Oleg changed his mind. I have not. We need to resolve this equitably and between ourselves, but in my view neither of us should be willing to proceed in a manner that politicizes the issue and damages this community.
Last night, someone began to use the THR to solicit members to contribute to a legal fight. I took the board down after another moderator dealt with the posts and alerted me to them. This is a perhaps a harsh measure, but I will act as I am able to preserve this community. The Board may not be used to sabotage the Board, and I will insist on that. There are thousands of users out there who just want to use THR as they always have so they can pursue their interests in peace. We have already had many moderators resign due to the tenor of discussions surrounding this issue, and it is my intention that we prevent similar damage to the forum at large.
During whatever happens, I will make every effort to maintain THR in the manner you have all come to expect. I hope cooler heads can prevail to keep THR something we are all happy with and remain proud of.
-- Derek
__________________
The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, anytime, and with utter recklessness -- Robert Heinlein
WELLBUILTNETWORKS: Hosting THR since 2002
I'm sorry I had to leave such a vague message while the board was down these last 12 hours. Some legal threats were made, and I thought it prudent to get legal advice before reacting.
For nearly six years THR has operated as a voluntary community. Oleg has been the face of the board. I assembled and provided the engine. While user contributions were appreciated, I hosted the board almost completely at my own expense and preformed the technical work necessary to keep the system available 24 by 7 and ahead of our ever-growing user demand. The moderators kept things on an even keel, and over 75,000 others have contributed to make the board what it now is. I'm very proud of what we've become, and Im committed most of all that the Board remain a place we are all proud of and where we all feel at home.
To my deep regret, during these last few weeks an issue that Oleg and I should have worked out privately has become an increasingly public dispute. I deeply regret this development and apologize for having been unable to work through our differences in a less harmful manner. This is an internal dispute, and should not have gotten out in the open forum to be the distraction it has become.
During this time, I have continued to operate THR on exactly the same basis you have come to expect. My assertion this entire time is that the status quo should be maintained unless THR staff decide otherwise, and that we should use a rational process to evaluate potential changes. Having said that, THR has grown substantially these last few years, and our continued growth makes some kind of change inevitable in order to pay for the increasing resource commitments our growth requires.
As far back as I can remember Oleg and have had the understanding that we were joint owners. A few weeks ago, Oleg changed his mind. I have not. We need to resolve this equitably and between ourselves, but in my view neither of us should be willing to proceed in a manner that politicizes the issue and damages this community.
Last night, someone began to use the THR to solicit members to contribute to a legal fight. I took the board down after another moderator dealt with the posts and alerted me to them. This is a perhaps a harsh measure, but I will act as I am able to preserve this community. The Board may not be used to sabotage the Board, and I will insist on that. There are thousands of users out there who just want to use THR as they always have so they can pursue their interests in peace. We have already had many moderators resign due to the tenor of discussions surrounding this issue, and it is my intention that we prevent similar damage to the forum at large.
During whatever happens, I will make every effort to maintain THR in the manner you have all come to expect. I hope cooler heads can prevail to keep THR something we are all happy with and remain proud of.
-- Derek
__________________
The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, anytime, and with utter recklessness -- Robert Heinlein
WELLBUILTNETWORKS: Hosting THR since 2002
I've mostly hung out here lately, anyway.
Granted, I probably disagree with half of what you folks believe, non-RKBA related, but at least you here are more educated. I can hang with educated folks I disagree with any day of the week.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 06:52:42 AM
That's what Oleg said his plans are for the site, so...
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2008, 06:59:03 AM
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 06:59:54 AM
Post by: TheBluesMan on September 25, 2008, 07:03:49 AM
Quote from: jfruser
FYI, Oleg's THR logon has had every post removed and his "Join date" reset to June 1, 2006.
That is not true. http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=1
BTW, I have now been banned from THR.
Either John Shirley or Derek Zeanah fear what I have to say apparently. Cowards, both of them.
Post by: ilbob on September 25, 2008, 07:04:19 AM
Quote
Should see if Derek will just sell the domain name for a flat price. Be easier for him than going to court if all he wants to do is line his pockets.
Oleg offered to buy it back for $75,000. Derek refused, apparently.
Post by: ilbob on September 25, 2008, 07:04:56 AM
Quote from: jfruser
FYI, Oleg's THR logon has had every post removed and his "Join date" reset to June 1, 2006.
That is not true. http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=1
BTW, I have now been banned from THR.
Either John Shirley or Derek Zeanah fear what I have to say apparently. Cowards, both of them.
Post by: fletcher on September 25, 2008, 07:10:39 AM
After this is resolved, if any financial support is required to keep THR running speedy and ad-free, just let us know; I'm sure a good portion of the community would pitch in.
That being said, anyone that could be so greedy as to toss aside the successful efforts of others and himself for some petty personal gain is not a good person. This kind of behavior is infuriating. Derek had plenty of opportunity in his announcements on THR to give his side of the story if he wasn't in the wrong, but his "drama warning" was no more than a generic "nothing to see here, move along".
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2008, 07:12:13 AM
Quote from: jfruser
FYI, Oleg's THR logon has had every post removed and his "Join date" reset to June 1, 2006.
That is not true. http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=1
BTW, I have now been banned from THR.
Either John Shirley or Derek Zeanah fear what I have to say apparently. Cowards, both of them.
Hmm, two Oleg Volks:
http://thehighroad.org/member.php?u=30795 (no posts)
http://www.thehighroad.org/member.php?u=1 (lotsa posts)
Member List:
http://thehighroad.org/memberlist.php
Maybe the "shadow" Volk has existed for years and I never noticed. I thought the join date mighty convenient.
My official line is: Heckifiknow
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 07:26:35 AM
Post by: VARifleman on September 25, 2008, 07:33:35 AM
Post by: wmenorr67 on September 25, 2008, 07:35:47 AM
I mean with getting ready to lose access to the internet for up to three weeks, oh noes.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 07:37:54 AM
I just want to say y'all picked a fine time to stir up some drama around this place.
I mean with getting ready to lose access to the internet for up to three weeks, oh noes.
I mean with getting ready to lose access to the internet for up to three weeks, oh noes.
You can always pick up some questionable device (hey, why is the case cracked open?) that uses the Orascom network at a bazaar there or something? Or did you mean en route?
Post by: wmenorr67 on September 25, 2008, 07:41:19 AM
I just want to say y'all picked a fine time to stir up some drama around this place.
I mean with getting ready to lose access to the internet for up to three weeks, oh noes.
I mean with getting ready to lose access to the internet for up to three weeks, oh noes.
You can always pick up some questionable device (hey, why is the case cracked open?) that uses the Orascom network at a bazaar there or something? Or did you mean en route?
Well in a few days we move down to Kuwait and will be there for about a week. There will be a MWR I can use but it will cost me $5 an hour or so.
Then I will be at Ft Bliss for about a week and access there will be very shady. Even if I have time. I have already sent my puter home also.
Post by: Kestryll on September 25, 2008, 08:13:16 AM
If APS goes down or is otherwise screwed with, I propose we all meet at thefiringline.com, to figure out what to do next. Without APS, we have no way of keeping in touch.
I'll make the same offer here as I made on TFL before the thread got pulled.
If this site goes down I can set up a THR/APS forum on Calguns.net in a matter of minutes as a rallying point until Oleg can get another site up.
This is flat out theft, there's no other word for it.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 08:29:38 AM
Post by: Doc2005 on September 25, 2008, 08:47:41 AM
Seriously confused,
Doc2005
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 08:54:48 AM
Post by: fspitzdorf on September 25, 2008, 09:06:40 AM
Post by: FieroCDSP on September 25, 2008, 09:10:41 AM
From the info so far provided, there was no documented sale of the name between agreeing parties, nor official transfer of the rights, so such restrictions or the transfer of the domain name, especially if done on the sly as alleged, is reprehensible at least and illegal at the worst.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 09:14:51 AM
Quote
kentucky_smith
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-06-05
Posts: 1,259
Boycott
Boycott
Until Oleg gets control back.
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
__________________
Support Oleg. Boycott THR until Oleg gets ownership back.
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
kentucky_smith is online now
Senior Member
Join Date: 10-06-05
Posts: 1,259
Boycott
Boycott
Until Oleg gets control back.
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
__________________
Support Oleg. Boycott THR until Oleg gets ownership back.
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/474369.html
kentucky_smith is online now
And his replies are kinda...insipid.
Quote
Derek Zeanah
System Administrator
Join Date: 12-20-02
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 2,779
Quote:
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info.
Just because it's on the internet doesn't necessarily make it so...
__________________
The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, anytime, and with utter recklessness -- Robert Heinlein
WELLBUILTNETWORKS: Hosting THR since 2002
System Administrator
Join Date: 12-20-02
Location: South Georgia
Posts: 2,779
Quote:
If you do a search on some other boards, particularly those favorable to black semiautomatic rifles that are similar to the ones the US Army uses, you'll find info.
Just because it's on the internet doesn't necessarily make it so...
__________________
The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle anywhere, anytime, and with utter recklessness -- Robert Heinlein
WELLBUILTNETWORKS: Hosting THR since 2002
Post by: AJ Dual on September 25, 2008, 09:15:32 AM
But discussing the finer points of legal strategy is probably not wise on this board, considering the hosting...
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 09:15:45 AM
Quote
Derek Zeanah claims it was my intent to transfer ownership of THR to
him. In support he quotes a May 2006 email from me:
"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."
I find it unfortunate that Derek chooses to misrepresent my statements
and position, especially in light of our phone conversation of early
August. I thought I had clearly articulated to Derek my position and
my willingness to join this fray in the most direct and
confrontational manner imaginable, should he choose to draw me into
it. Derek appears hell bent on that outcome, given his out-of-context
quote. If Derek wishes to insist on claiming me as a co-conspirator in
his attempt to hijack this domain, I'll be more than happy to resolve
this issue in a most efficient and direct manner.
TheHighRoad.org domain was owned and paid for by me from inception in
December 2001 thru May 2006. Beginning 2005, I attempted to transfer
Domain Ownership to Oleg Volk, as the name was one of his choosing,
the staff was handpicked by him, and the originally forums were
personally delineated, described and designed by him. On December 2005
I reached out to Oleg and Derek replied:
"I guess I've been nominated to handle the renewal.
It looks like it's currently registered to you. Would you prefer to
renew it (and I'll send you a check), or transfer it, or something
else?
Thanks."
I asked that we transfer. Derek responded on that date that he was
unable to create an account with Network Solutions to accept transfer
of the domain. In the end I responded:
"I've paid you up for another year. You don't owe me anything, but
please effect a transfer ASAP before this falls thru the cracks
again."
Justin Guyett was witness to this email exchange. To my knowledge and
understanding, Derek was representing himself as Oleg's agent in this
transfer. I had no personal relationship with Derek and would never
have knowingly subsidized a site for him; nor would I have transferred
the domain name to him.
On May 16, 2006, Derek approached me to see if I wanted to co-locate
TFL at his location. I passed on the offer but reiterated the need to
move the domain:
"BTW, I really need to transfer ownership of THR. Can you assist?"
Once again, Derek had troubles effecting the transfer. It was in this
context that I emailed him, stating
"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."
Derek finally effected the name transfer to GoDaddy.com and that was
the last I heard of it.
At no time was I aware that Derek was acting as anything but Oleg's
personal agent. Had I been aware that Derek was acting for his own
benefit I would never have transferred the domain name to him. It is
my position that Mr. Zeanah had fraudulently misrepresented himself to
me. If he persists in publicly hiding behind my statements, taken out
of context, I will have little choice but to join this legal fray,
recover the domain name thru the courts and pursue Mr. Zeanah for my
legal fees.
Best regards-
Rich Lucibella
him. In support he quotes a May 2006 email from me:
"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."
I find it unfortunate that Derek chooses to misrepresent my statements
and position, especially in light of our phone conversation of early
August. I thought I had clearly articulated to Derek my position and
my willingness to join this fray in the most direct and
confrontational manner imaginable, should he choose to draw me into
it. Derek appears hell bent on that outcome, given his out-of-context
quote. If Derek wishes to insist on claiming me as a co-conspirator in
his attempt to hijack this domain, I'll be more than happy to resolve
this issue in a most efficient and direct manner.
TheHighRoad.org domain was owned and paid for by me from inception in
December 2001 thru May 2006. Beginning 2005, I attempted to transfer
Domain Ownership to Oleg Volk, as the name was one of his choosing,
the staff was handpicked by him, and the originally forums were
personally delineated, described and designed by him. On December 2005
I reached out to Oleg and Derek replied:
"I guess I've been nominated to handle the renewal.
It looks like it's currently registered to you. Would you prefer to
renew it (and I'll send you a check), or transfer it, or something
else?
Thanks."
I asked that we transfer. Derek responded on that date that he was
unable to create an account with Network Solutions to accept transfer
of the domain. In the end I responded:
"I've paid you up for another year. You don't owe me anything, but
please effect a transfer ASAP before this falls thru the cracks
again."
Justin Guyett was witness to this email exchange. To my knowledge and
understanding, Derek was representing himself as Oleg's agent in this
transfer. I had no personal relationship with Derek and would never
have knowingly subsidized a site for him; nor would I have transferred
the domain name to him.
On May 16, 2006, Derek approached me to see if I wanted to co-locate
TFL at his location. I passed on the offer but reiterated the need to
move the domain:
"BTW, I really need to transfer ownership of THR. Can you assist?"
Once again, Derek had troubles effecting the transfer. It was in this
context that I emailed him, stating
"Derek-
Provide me your full info.
I'm gonna change the NetSol contacts to you."
Derek finally effected the name transfer to GoDaddy.com and that was
the last I heard of it.
At no time was I aware that Derek was acting as anything but Oleg's
personal agent. Had I been aware that Derek was acting for his own
benefit I would never have transferred the domain name to him. It is
my position that Mr. Zeanah had fraudulently misrepresented himself to
me. If he persists in publicly hiding behind my statements, taken out
of context, I will have little choice but to join this legal fray,
recover the domain name thru the courts and pursue Mr. Zeanah for my
legal fees.
Best regards-
Rich Lucibella
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 09:21:04 AM
Good.
Lousy pirate. You can't do a mutiny if over three quarters of the crew are on the side of the original captain.
Post by: 220_SWIFT on September 25, 2008, 09:25:20 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 09:30:51 AM
Damn, how many people is he going to shoot on his own boat for insubordination? He's going to run out of members.
Post by: buzz_knox on September 25, 2008, 09:33:15 AM
I would guess that from Derek's POV, speaking broadly, it's some variant of the "I've been mowing that 1 acre strip of my neighbors property for 20 years and my fence has been over there... legal-argument applied to THR.
Adverse possession requires that your activities reflect an interest in the property that is adverse to those of the property owner's. If you carry out those actions with the neighbor's permission, they are not adverse to the neighbor's interest and thus you can't claim ownership. You weren't established ownership, you were just doing the neighbor a favor or the neighbor was doing you a favor.
I'm not getting into the legalities of the current situation, but just wanted to insure people understood what the argument really entails.
Post by: Kestryll on September 25, 2008, 09:34:05 AM
So the truth is another hostage.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 09:35:28 AM
It seems I was banned for posting Rich Lucibella's quote on THR..
So the truth is another hostage.
So the truth is another hostage.
The bodies are piling up over there. Insane.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 09:36:28 AM
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 09:36:35 AM
***************
Quote
Put a couple of members in 7-day bans, hoping they'll cool down and become productive again. I hate drama
Users are kentucky_smith, kestrell.
Time may show it should have been permanent.
Users are kentucky_smith, kestrell.
Time may show it should have been permanent.
I guess you better become productive. Work makes freedom, eh?
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 09:37:34 AM
Quote
Once he realizes this conversation is happening, you can bet he'll come down on us as well.
I have no access to the databses, remember?
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 09:38:23 AM
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 09:41:05 AM
Oleg, speaking as a long time APS member, I think maybe it's time we get APS moved away from Derek's control. Once he realizes this conversation is happening, you can bet he'll come down on us as well.
If he wants it brought up in court as an example of acting petty, foolish and malicious.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 09:41:40 AM
Post by: Doc2005 on September 25, 2008, 09:45:25 AM
If Oleg is locked-out, it seems a pretty stiff degree of explaining that would have to take place to justify that same. Sorry if my confusion sounds dumb, but this is a lot of info to drink-in, in such a short time.
Doc2005
Post by: Scout26 on September 25, 2008, 09:46:38 AM
I'm willing to sacrifice Fistful to settle this matter.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 09:49:34 AM
Rest assured that Oleg and the rest of the staff are talking about what we can do to A) protect APS in the short term and B) make sure that APS moves forward long term.
I won't jump into Oleg's leaf pile by providing the few (and very likely incomplete) facts that I have regarding how APS is owned, hosted, accessed, etc., but rest assured that we are not sitting on our hands.
As Oleg notes, however, movement is not at all easy right now because the APS databases are being held hostage. We've done what we can to try to ensure that APS is not hijacked, but given the current situation, it's not a lot.
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2008, 09:50:35 AM
The rest of him is too valuable as a scapegoat to sacrifice in this matter.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 09:51:12 AM
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 09:54:36 AM
Well, I've spoken to one moderator who says that he has been both demoted AND banned. Judging by what I'm seeing in the membership rolls at THR, he's not lying about his being banned.
So, we're left with a single conclusion. The claims that all moderators have access is, at best, true only in the sense that at least one long-time moderator was summarily unpromoted and then banned.
Post by: 220_SWIFT on September 25, 2008, 09:59:29 AM
Quote
Okay, so as I read over at THR, Oleg is alleged to have full access to his log-in. The same is said of all moderators. Can anyone clarify? Is Oleg locked-out of THR?
Oleg posted over their within the past twenty minutes, and he is still listed as admin. Beyond that, I have no clue.
Post by: Gewehr98 on September 25, 2008, 10:00:58 AM
While I certainly agree that THR and APS are Oleg's intellectual property, the maneuverings to date have somewhat tied his hands.
Let Oleg, Rich, et alia get their game plan and war chest together. In the meantime, I urge all to remember that we really don't want to send a big honking beacon to Mr. Zeanah goading him to turn the switch off here at APS.
I was just over at THR. Derek has no qualms about removing those who question his authorita'. Threads that discuss the situation as seen on sister or other forums are being dealt with posthaste, it appears. If enough flak goes that direction from APS...
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 10:02:39 AM
Sorry, had no choice
Post by: Gewehr98 on September 25, 2008, 10:06:26 AM
It does show Oleg posting there as recently as 1:38 PM today from this thread starter, also created in his name:
Quote
Today, 11:13 AM #1
Oleg Volk
Administrator
Join Date: 12-19-02
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 8,957
New RKBA podcast up
http://www.urban-shooter.com
Ken Blanchard's site has a podcast with some of my commentary in the middle of it,
__________________
Oleg "Peacemonger" Volk
Prints | A Human Right | Gallery | BREAKING NEWS | September 4: 5 new RKBA Tshirts
Although my title says "Administrator", Derek Zeanah disabled my account and banned some of the dissenting moderators.
Oleg Volk
Administrator
Join Date: 12-19-02
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 8,957
New RKBA podcast up
http://www.urban-shooter.com
Ken Blanchard's site has a podcast with some of my commentary in the middle of it,
__________________
Oleg "Peacemonger" Volk
Prints | A Human Right | Gallery | BREAKING NEWS | September 4: 5 new RKBA Tshirts
Although my title says "Administrator", Derek Zeanah disabled my account and banned some of the dissenting moderators.
Post by: Nolo on September 25, 2008, 10:09:32 AM
It seems that that's Oleg's way of squeaking the word out to folks.
Seems he isn't banned, but he is tied up in a corner.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:10:33 AM
Last April 1 the admins and mods kinda here at APS kinda got out of hand with some practical jokes that had us REALLY screwing with each other's accounts...
That was all in good fun, thought, and everything was undone.
Post by: Kacecoyote on September 25, 2008, 10:13:59 AM
Post by: Nolo on September 25, 2008, 10:18:29 AM
But I really didn't want to add any fuel to the fire.
Post by: Nick1911 on September 25, 2008, 10:21:08 AM
Everything is fine...
See how easy that was-mtnbkr
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:32:26 AM
Actually entering someone's account by hijacking their password leaves a far less obvious trace.
Post by: Nolo on September 25, 2008, 10:32:43 AM
Nolo- Nogo....
Post by: S. Williamson on September 25, 2008, 10:38:31 AM
Edit: *facepalm* Put the emphasis on the wrong word.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:42:17 AM
I have all of Derek's contact info, myself. Out of courtesy to the mods, I won't post it again...
Please see my note further down on this page...
I'll reiterate it here.
Anyone who posts Derek's contact information anywhere on this site will be immediately and permanently banned from APS.
Post by: Balog on September 25, 2008, 10:45:26 AM
Post by: Nick1911 on September 25, 2008, 10:48:18 AM
And what Mtnbkr did leaves an obvious trace.
Actually entering someone's account by hijacking their password leaves a far less obvious trace.
Actually entering someone's account by hijacking their password leaves a far less obvious trace.
If you have access to the db, and to the php files, you can do anything, and make it look like anything.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:48:45 AM
Post by: mtnbkr on September 25, 2008, 10:48:55 AM
And what Mtnbkr did leaves an obvious trace.
Actually entering someone's account by hijacking their password leaves a far less obvious trace.
Actually entering someone's account by hijacking their password leaves a far less obvious trace.
True, but hijacking the account brings in other difficulties, at least if you don't want the user to know his account was hijacked. Unless the forum software has a "su" function, you have to change the password, then change it back, which means you have to know the original.
Chris
Post by: Elza on September 25, 2008, 10:50:13 AM
Quote
Work makes freedom, eh?
Most appropriate, Oleg. Arbeit Macht Frei was used by the Nazis during WWII. Judging by his actions and the current purge at THR I think that Derek qualifies as a modern day version!Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
You just assume the account identity, post, and log out.
Most chat forums I've used don't notify the account holder at the registered e-mail address when the password is changed. I've always thought that to be a vulnerability.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 25, 2008, 10:52:59 AM
Quote
Please see my note further down on this page...
I'll reiterate it here.
Anyone who posts Derek's contact information anywhere on this site will be immediately and permanently banned from APS.
I'll reiterate it here.
Anyone who posts Derek's contact information anywhere on this site will be immediately and permanently banned from APS.
Mike teased me too much with this, so I went on over to whois.net.
Funny thing is, lots of people want to know the registrant info for THR. You now get this response:
Code:
WHOIS information for: thehighroad.org:
[whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
WHOIS LIMIT EXCEEDED - SEE WWW.PIR.ORG/WHOIS FOR DETAILS
[whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
WHOIS LIMIT EXCEEDED - SEE WWW.PIR.ORG/WHOIS FOR DETAILS
Of course, other whois engines return results. I won't post them, but it's intriguing that whois.net is reporting limits exceeded on requests for this particular domain.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 10:56:43 AM
Post by: fspitzdorf on September 25, 2008, 11:02:55 AM
Post by: Doc2005 on September 25, 2008, 11:03:08 AM
Quote
WHOIS information for: thehighroad.org:
[whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
WHOIS LIMIT EXCEEDED - SEE WWW.PIR.ORG/WHOIS FOR DETAILS
[whois.publicinterestregistry.net]
WHOIS LIMIT EXCEEDED - SEE WWW.PIR.ORG/WHOIS FOR DETAILS
Hmmm.
Doc2005
Post by: Soybomb on September 25, 2008, 11:12:03 AM
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 11:13:17 AM
Derek can post his contact information on every other site on the intardnet.
If he choses to post his contact information here, that's one thing.
But no one else is going to post his contact information here. That could have certain repercussions in any litigation.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 11:17:00 AM
Quote
Is it safe to say that one person wanted to monetize the site and one did not?
Precisely. You can guess which of us wanted the $$.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 11:17:38 AM
Quote
Justin
Moderator
Join Date: 12-29-02
Location: House of Representin'
Posts: 11,596
This is an extremely complicated issue that shouldn't have been blown up into a public display.
Without taking sides, I will say that Oleg's side of the story isn't the only one.
Moderator
Join Date: 12-29-02
Location: House of Representin'
Posts: 11,596
This is an extremely complicated issue that shouldn't have been blown up into a public display.
Without taking sides, I will say that Oleg's side of the story isn't the only one.
Then they locked the discussion thread.
Post by: AJ Dual on September 25, 2008, 11:18:28 AM
Never mind. I'm getting through now.
Post by: Soybomb on September 25, 2008, 11:20:59 AM
Quote
Is it safe to say that one person wanted to monetize the site and one did not?
Precisely. You can guess which of us wanted the $$.
edit: I'm trying to think of anything that could possibly tell the other side of the story in a way other than what I think. In the past THR has gotten some cash donations and the like, which I'm sure was a pretty small amount to begin with, but were they split in any way that could seem unfair to either party?
Post by: taurusowner on September 25, 2008, 11:36:22 AM
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 11:42:35 AM
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2008, 11:49:36 AM
Quote
What a way to "not take sides!"
Justin isn't "taking sides". Noise and speculation are just going to make matters worse, and we're trying to keep some of that down.The issue is very complicated, and mindless speculation isn't doing any good.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 11:50:56 AM
Quote
What a way to "not take sides!"
Justin isn't "taking sides". Noise and speculation are just going to make matters worse, and we're trying to keep some of that down.The issue is very complicated, and mindless speculation isn't doing any good.
So suppressing all discussion of the matter and banning the members is keeping that down?
Keeping something down, alright. Seems like Derek is the only one allowed to give his side of the story...Oleg's side keeps getting deleted and the posters banned. Glad I'm not there.
Post by: Iain on September 25, 2008, 12:01:34 PM
Agree completely with Larry here, the rest of us have to sit back and watch for a while.
Post by: Oleg Volk on September 25, 2008, 12:03:59 PM
Post by: Larry Ashcraft on September 25, 2008, 12:05:42 PM
Quote
banning the members
More speculation. A couple of members were given suspensions until they cool down. One I was just chasing posted eleven "Derek is a thief" threads on various sub-forums in the span of a few minutes. I gave him a few days to cool off.That's not what I call "discussion".
Besides, only a couple of members have full knowledge of the situation. Any discussion needs to be between them. THR needs to continue as normally as humanly possible until the situation is resolved.
Post by: Thumper on September 25, 2008, 12:06:28 PM
Good to see some old names over here...I had avoided APS until all the recent unpleasantness.
Might be a blessing in disguise.
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 12:07:00 PM
Quote
Please spread the links to my fund raising appeal far and wide.
I will Oleg. In the meantime I was over at THR madly posting like some kind of troll for your cause.
I went down in a blaze of glory!
Post by: Balog on September 25, 2008, 12:08:33 PM
Quote
Please spread the links to my fund raising appeal far and wide.
I will Oleg. In the meantime I was over at THR madly posting like some kind of troll for your cause.
I went down in a blaze of glory!
Yeah, the people on your side acting badly isn't helpful. See "Free state project" for an example.
Post by: ctdonath on September 25, 2008, 12:22:25 PM
Quote
I was over at THR madly posting like some kind of troll for your cause.
I went down in a blaze of glory!
Um...you might want to read a few posts earlier:I went down in a blaze of glory!
Quote
I was just chasing posted eleven "Derek is a thief" threads on various sub-forums in the span of a few minutes. I gave him a few days to cool off.
That's not what I call "discussion".
F.L., meet Larry. Larry, meet F.L.
That's not what I call "discussion".
Post by: Nolo on September 25, 2008, 12:22:50 PM
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 12:23:50 PM
Quote
the people on your side acting badly isn't helpful.
How do you know it wasn't helpful? I could have got more people to contribute to Oleg's cause.
I probably won't do it in the future, since there is the outside chance it could hurt his case, but it sure felt good.
Post by: ArfinGreebly on September 25, 2008, 12:24:32 PM
Please heed Larry's words.
There's more to this than meets the eye.
In the end, either the parties in question will resolve it between them, or a resolution will be obtained in court.
I want you all to keep in mind how easy it is to misunderstand someone on the Internet. Couple that with a tendency of humans to spout off before thinking things through. And, just to spice things up a little, season all of this with the all-too-human tendency to deny a mistake.
At some point the "who's right and who's wrong" question gets pretty muddy, because -- even when both parties believe they're doing the right thing -- there's not only the issue of the merits, but now also the issue of what's been said.
Some of you are married. Being right ain't much help if you manage to insult your spouse in the proving of it.
If I had to guess, and my crystal ball wasn't so freakin' cloudy, I'd imagine that once the interested parties are behind closed doors with an uninvolved person asking the questions, there will be a certain amount of "uh, well, I guess that was a little extreme," from both sides.
I know more than most of you.
I don't know enough to pass judgement.
I'm still hoping both sides will wake up and go, "what the hell was I thinking!?"
Till then, you won't see me throwing rocks either way.
Keep yer powder dry, fellas.
Post by: Manedwolf on September 25, 2008, 12:24:52 PM
Whoah, what's the problem with the FSP?
*snerk* You tell me. They just released this recently. This is THEIR idea of positive publicity.
Two of the ones pictured here are now in jail, last I heard.
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 12:25:10 PM
Quote
Um...you might want to read a few posts earlier:
I aint scared of him. He knows it was me.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 12:26:12 PM
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I'm still hoping both sides will wake up and go, "what the hell was I thinking!?"
Me too.
Post by: Kestryll on September 25, 2008, 12:30:34 PM
THR needs to continue as normally as humanly possible until the situation is resolved.
No, THR needs to be handed over to Oleg immediately.
Until such time there will likely be no 'normal' there, only angry long time members getting banned for telling the truth and new members wondering what the heck is going on.
Greed and self-interest are NEVER pretty nor beneficial to a community.
Post by: roo_ster on September 25, 2008, 12:33:41 PM
Whoah, what's the problem with the FSP?
Oh, now you done stepped in it.
BTW, wookie suits are in aisle 3.
Post by: AZRedhawk44 on September 25, 2008, 12:43:58 PM
I can feel the THR-creep coming in.
Post by: atek3 on September 25, 2008, 12:48:11 PM
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 12:48:56 PM
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I can feel the THR-creep coming in.
I know how you feel. Some of those guys are real idiots, others paranoid Gunkid jrs, and others make RKBA look like sh##.
Post by: ArfinGreebly on September 25, 2008, 12:49:48 PM
I was actually trying to encourage THR guys to visit APS.
Several said they found it too chaotic (or other, uh, synonyms) over here, and they would stay with THR, thank you very much.
Y'gotta appreciate hearing "there goes the neighborhood" from both sides.
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 12:50:01 PM
you can also get crazy deals on CL... remember, the price in the ad is ALWAYS negotiable.
I paid $2500 for a 1996 Honda CBR900RR that was super clean.
atek3
Wrong thread, I think.
I paid $2500 for a 1996 Honda CBR900RR that was super clean.
atek3
Post by: RadioFreeSeaLab on September 25, 2008, 12:51:02 PM
Post by: gaycynic on September 25, 2008, 12:53:00 PM
There really isn't any realistic way of putting the cat back in the bag, and the dispute having escaped into the blogosphere, of engaging in any sort of moderation.
In the meantime - remember the WHOIS function of Net Registrar's is a handy thing, that historically Oleg is a pretty good guy, and that at a tech level, there are darned few things that can't be either fixed or worked around.
Post by: TheBluesMan on September 25, 2008, 12:54:04 PM
I am (was) an administrator on THR. I helped Oleg assign moderators back in December of '02 and was there when Rich Lucibella gave the site to Oleg. I have been banned from THR since about noon today without any notice or communication whatsoever. This was done by either Derek Zeanah or John Shirley.
Any rumors you may have heard about all the staff being reinstated is a lie. I am still on the outside looking in because I vociferously defended Oleg and condemned Derek's actions. If things change I will post the fact back here.
-Dave
Post by: Fjolnirsson on September 25, 2008, 12:56:37 PM
http://thearmedschoolteacher.blogspot.com/
Thursday, September 25, 2008
Just So You All Know. . . .
Im not avoiding telling you what I know. Im at work right now, and not able to post very well (the email client stinks, and I cant visit Blogspot at work.) This evening I promise to break things down from my point of view. Obviously, thats only going to tell you what I know and what I think is going on.
The short version, as I see it, goes like this:
1. Oleg Volk agreed to carry on with The High Road after Rich Lucibella closed The Firing Line. Since Rich had already registered the www.thehighroad.org domain, he gave it to Oleg. (In quotes because those are Richs words.)
2. Oleg enlisted many of us from the old TFL staff to help. He also enlisted Derek Zeanah to provide hosting and IT services. We were all volunteers, including Derek.
3. Fast forward to this summer, when Oleg, Derek and others discover that there is an opportunity to make money from THR, whether by selling the domain to an outside party or by accepting advertising. Can you guess where the party ended?
4. Oleg seemed to be leaning toward a business offer that made many of us, myself included, wary to the point of suspicion. Derek proposed an alternative that many, myself included, thought might be preferable. The details arent important right now; there were honest differences as to the best course, and thats all we need to know for our purposes here.
5. When Derek decided that Oleg would make a rash decision (and to be fair, I believe Derek thought Olegs decision would benefit Oleg but leave everyone else out) he revealed that Oleg was not actually registered as the owner of www.thehighroad.org. Derek had transferred the registry and passcodes into his name and keeping from Rich, and had never passed them on to Oleg. Derek used his control of the registry and database passcodes to deny access to Oleg so that Oleg would be unable to complete any business transaction involving THR. This is where Derek and I part ways.
6. Over the past several weeks, several attempts have been made to reconcile Oleg and Derek and mediate their dispute in private. No solution has been found. Eventually, Oleg made the decision to bring a lawsuit to force Derek to give up his control of the domain. In response, Derek shut down THR yesterday. I dont know what message is there today; I cant access THR at work.
7. I believe Oleg will eventually prevail in any lawsuit. In my mind, the bottom line is that even if one accepts that the ownership of the domain is currently in dispute, the last person who had undisputed ownership was Rich Lucibella. Rich Lucibella told Oleg, Derek, and the TFL staff that he wished to transfer the rights to www.thehighroad.org to Oleg Volk. He gave them to Derek because he believed that Derek, as Olegs agent, would complete the transfer to Oleg. In effect, Derek intercepted the rights and held them for himself, and he now proposes to use them. But this is not a football game; interceptions dont count. Under Dereks theory, if you pay your investment manager $10,000 and direct him to invest it in the fund, he could keep it since he had possession of it at some point.
8. Both Oleg and Derek claim to believe that the other has honest intentions. I dont believe either of them on that score at the moment. However, I do think each is doing what he thinks is necessary, not only for himself but also for THR. We can convince ourselves of almost anything with very little effort, after all. That said, as I said before, I expect Oleg to prevail in any contest of law. Derek has claimed that Oleg contemplated utterly destroying THR and therefore must be stopped. If thats true, it doesnt change anything. If the place belongs to anyone, it belongs to Oleg. If he wanted to destroy it, he would be within his rights. I might never speak to him again after that, but I wouldnt stop him. In fact, Rich Lucibella shut down TFL entirely. Twice. The difference was that Richs host and IT guy, like the rest of us, cringe in mortal fear at the thought of crossing The Lucibella. For better or for worse, nobody is afraid to cross Oleg.
9. The question that stays in my mind is not whether Oleg or Derek will win in the end. The question is, what will be left of THR when the winner is finally declared? THR is a community. It has no geographic, religious, historical or cultural bonds to hold it together, only a shared passion for shooting and firearms. This could easily destroy it.
10. Keep in mind that this is my opinion. Its based on what I know. What I know is undoubtedly not the whole story. What I believe is even less reliable than what I know.
Posted by Don Gwinn at 3:02 PM 0 comments
And the previous post....
The High Road; An Apology To You All
For now, all I have to say is that I don't have anything to say. Tomorrow I expect to go into much more detail. It's a dark day if you're a member of The High Road dot Org. It's after midnight, I spent all day in an emergency room, and I have parent-teacher conferences in the morning. I'm going to bed.
Before I do, I want to say this much:
If you're a member of www.thehighroad.org and you're wondering what's going on, I'm sorry. I apologize on behalf of the entire staff for the fact that we were not able to keep our childish bickering and junior-league food fights from destroying a community you built with us from nothing. I would urge you to hold yourselves blameless and instead hold the staff responsible for this epic failure of the ideals THR stands for, but I'm sure you've figured that part out for yourselves.
I'm sorry.
Posted by Don Gwinn at 12:15 AM 8 comments
Labels: Guns, Hypocrisy, Love, Politics, schadenfreude, Screwups, Waaaaaambulance
Post by: TheBluesMan on September 25, 2008, 01:03:58 PM
I would only add that Derek has repeatedly refused to respond to requests for an accounting of donations and expenditures relating to The High Road. He alone holds the only backup of the database (a dangerous proposition and terribly irresponsible for a sysadmin) and refused to give a copy to a disinterested third party.
He has seized control but will continue to keep THR up and running to pacify the masses with bread and circuses. Also to be certain that his "investment" doesn't shrivel up and fade away.
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 01:05:47 PM
I can't tell who is lying. The facts are not clear and neither are the accounts of the witnesses.
All I know is I was punished for serving Oleg's side. He may be in the right.
Post by: gunsmith on September 25, 2008, 01:15:29 PM
Post by: cassandra and sara's daddy on September 25, 2008, 01:21:43 PM
I just hope that whatever's best for these two forums wins out in the end.
I can't tell who is lying. The facts are not clear and neither are the accounts of the witnesses.
All I know is I was punished for serving Oleg's side. He may be in the right.
I can't tell who is lying. The facts are not clear and neither are the accounts of the witnesses.
All I know is I was punished for serving Oleg's side. He may be in the right.
you were punished for not acting your age young as that is.
Post by: freedom lover on September 25, 2008, 01:29:56 PM
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you were punished for not acting your age young as that is.
I admit I didn't act my age. I suppose I should try to act less on emotion and more on facts, to think logically.
I guess I kept going because it felt darn good. I should try to become less impulsive.
Post by: jamz on September 25, 2008, 01:35:27 PM
I haven't been to THR for a long long time, mostly due to the greatly increased size since '03 when I liked it a whole lot, but I hate hearing stuff like this.
Post by: K Frame on September 25, 2008, 01:37:16 PM
Post by: Oleg Volk on December 12, 2008, 12:29:38 AM
Post by: Balog on April 03, 2009, 01:41:40 AM
http://olegvolk.livejournal.com/548766.html
Wed, Apr. 1st, 2009, 09:40 pm
The High Road lawsuit update
The case is going to trial in mid-September 2009.
I am charging Derek Zeanah with theft of the domain name by conversion and requesting the return of my property. He also violated my registered copyright for the organization of the forum.
Derek, for his part, claims sole, exclusive ownership of The High Road trademark. He hasn't explained just how it belongs to him, other than through his technical control of the domain name. He also claims that I owe him for not taking adequate care of The High Road forums as a business and thus causing him monetary losses. Seems what he lacks in evidence, he makes up in sheer audacity of claims.
We are going through the labor-intensive discovery process. Fortunately, I have a very capable lawyer as well as a friendly law student assisting with research and organization. Thanks to the generous assistance of my friends and readers, I still have some of the legal fund on hand, though it won't last through the end of this saga.
Post by: Gewehr98 on April 03, 2009, 02:50:28 AM
Still locked, for obvious reasons.
Post by: Oleg Volk on August 08, 2009, 11:49:05 AM
On June 5, 2009, Charles Peeler, the attorney for Derek Zeanah, filed a motion to disqualify my attorney, Glenn Bellamy, from the case. Mr. Peeler’s motion argued that Mr. Bellamy was a necessary fact witness. Under legal ethics rules one cannot be a witness and simultaneously the trial attorney for one of the sides in the case. After due consideration, we concluded that Mr. Bellamy could do more good for my case as a witness for my side than as my attorney, and he withdrew as my attorney of record.
On the 10th day of July, 2009, Michael Branson, a trial lawyer from Missouri, entered an appearance as my new attorney of record. Mr. Branson has never been a member of TheHighRoad.org and therefore cannot be named as a necessary witness. Mr. Branson is currently working with everyone involved to schedule oral depositions.
Recently, the attorneys have engaged in discussion of a negotiated settlement out of court. My attorney has asked me not to comment on the nature of the negotiations except to acknowledge that we are exchanging settlement offers through our attorneys, while they prepare for the upcoming depositions and trial.
Post by: Oleg Volk on October 07, 2009, 01:02:17 AM
On August 28th, 2009 Oleg Volk's oral deposition was taken down in Statesboro, Georgia. The deposition by Charlie Peeler, Derek Zeneah's attorney, took more than five hours, and Mr. Volk was very consistent in his testimony. Lines of questioning pursued by Mr. Peeler indicate that Mr. Zeneah will argue that Mr. Volk did not act as the true owner of a business asset (the THR.org forums) because he did not make sufficient and consistent efforts to increase the net value of that asset. Mr. Volk insisted during the entire deposition that he had always viewed THR.org as an online community existing as its own justification, rather than a for-profit business entity, and that ownership of the website can and should be determined regardless of the profit motives (or lack thereof) of the parties.
Mr. Volk's attorney, Michael Branson, will take Mr. Zeneah's deposition on October 29 in Statesboro. Mr. Branson will elicit testimony from Mr. Zeneah on a variety of topics. The deposition and discovery process is very costly for both parties and very time consuming for the attorneys, and all the documentation and testimony must be generated and exchanged before the discovery process concludes November 15, 2009. After that point, assuming no reasonable settlement has been agreed to, the parties will begin final preparations for trial.
Post by: KD5NRH on October 07, 2009, 10:00:09 AM
The deposition and discovery process is very costly for both parties and very time consuming for the attorneys,
Dueling is so much more cost-effective.
Post by: RevDisk on October 07, 2009, 10:05:07 AM
Is Rich Lucibella still around? I don't know much about the gentleman, but I understand he is quite... uhm, vocal. I don't think he'd be shy if put on the stand.
Post by: Brad Johnson on October 30, 2009, 03:01:59 PM
Brad
Post by: Oleg Volk on November 01, 2009, 01:46:25 AM
Post by: RocketMan on November 01, 2009, 02:31:16 AM
Working on it. Don't have the transcript yet but will have a summary shortly. It went very well for us.
That is encouraging, Oleg. Please update us as the situation allows.
Post by: Perd Hapley on January 01, 2010, 05:47:24 PM
Post by: Laurent du Var on January 12, 2010, 03:33:52 AM
Post by: Zed on January 13, 2010, 01:17:40 AM
Post by: norinco982lover on January 27, 2010, 10:53:25 AM
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 27, 2010, 01:50:56 PM
Post by: Oleg Volk on January 29, 2010, 10:45:13 PM
Post by: RocketMan on January 30, 2010, 03:55:23 AM
In any event, I hope it works out without irrepairable damage being done to the overall THR ethic. That is what is most important.
Post by: Gewehr98 on January 30, 2010, 12:49:45 PM
Post by: Angel Eyes on February 03, 2010, 12:42:45 AM
Also being discussed over on calguns.net, with links to the depositions:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=264970
Post by: KD5NRH on February 03, 2010, 01:38:20 PM
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=264970
Hmmm...Oleg and Derek's depos, or the various McDonald briefs...
Anybody summarized these things yet? Chicago's brief takes forever to read between the alternating fits of giggling at their ridiculous statements and wanting to wad it up and throw it at the next liberal I see.
Post by: Antibubba on July 27, 2010, 07:21:33 PM
Post by: Pharmacology on November 08, 2010, 06:25:20 PM
Kinda tired of finding ways to get around being banned by Jshirley =|
Post by: Jamisjockey on December 22, 2010, 09:49:19 AM