Armed Polite Society
Main Forums => Politics => Topic started by: Perd Hapley on October 29, 2008, 05:32:37 PM
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Obama effigy found on U. of Kentucky campus
By JEFFREY McMURRAY – 53 minutes ago
LEXINGTON, Ky. (AP) — University of Kentucky authorities were investigating Wednesday who hanged an effigy of Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama from a tree on campus.
College spokesman Carl Nathe said the effigy was found Wednesday morning. Police immediately took it down. A faculty member said he saw the effigy with a noose around its neck, hanging from a high tree branch.
University President Lee Todd said he planned to apologize to the Obama family on behalf of the school and that he is "personally offended and deeply embarrassed by this disgusting episode."
Federal authorities have been notified, Todd said. He said the effigy violates the university's code of ethics and won't be tolerated.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hlnR7kQP7tXQKA0872BAweYKqPFQD944CKD01
Dissent is the highest form of patriotism. Right?
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but its okay to hang a Sarah Palin in effigy.
http://www.reuters.com/article/sarahPalin/idUSN2733220120081028
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where can one get a good obama effigy? i already have a noose
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Just watch the hypocrisy.
That will be a "hate crime". The Palin one is an "art installation".
Either ban them all or ban none.
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On the other hand, a black man in a noose has a certain historical significance that a white chick in a noose does not. The races may be equal, but the history and situation of the races are not.
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On the other hand, a black man in a noose has a certain historical significance that a white chick in a noose does not. The races may be equal, but the history and situation of the races are not.
That is the race card currently being played, yes.
How about the "witches" that were hanged? What about that? Isn't it misogynistic?
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffaculty.umf.maine.edu%2F%7Ewalters%2Fweb%2520230%2Fwitch%2520hanging.jpg&hash=de1acbac7ef827629025c4bbb87b78f96bb72812)
Hanged in 1692, Salem:
BRIDGET BISHOP of Salem
SARAH GOOD of Salem Village
ELIZABETH HOW of Topsfield
SUSANNAH MARTIN of Amesbury
REBECCA NURSE of Salem Village
SARAH WILDS of Topsfield
MARTHA CARRIER of Andover
MARTHA CORY of Salem Farmes
MARY ESTY of Topsfield
ALICE PARKER of Salem
MARY PARKER of Andover
ANN PUDEATOR of Salem
WILMOT REDD of Marblehead
MARGARET SCOTT of Rowley
They hanged a lot of innocent women in Salem and other communities.
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On the other hand, a black man in a noose has a certain historical significance that a white chick in a noose does not. The races may be equal, but the history and situation of the races are not.
They hanged a bunch of irish boys out west here, but you don't see them types getting all pissy over every noose in a tree.
All sorts of English nobility hanged commoners for not paying taxes during famines or depressions in England. You don't see English-descended folks talking about wage-earners persecution every time they see a rope, do you?
Blacks are WAY too sensitive over hanging and lynching. They act like they own the trademark on the practice, when it has vastly different cultural meanings and spans considerably more time than the couple of decades the KKK really went to town with the practice. It was an institution of the justice system in the US, England and other countries for at least 800 years.
They milk it every time it comes up and I'm not going to play that game.
If I decorated my house this year, a hangin' Obama would make a great addition. Too bad it's too late to do it this year. I'd join in.
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Which "white chick" is that?
Are we to the point where we defend black men AT THE EXPENSE of white women? I really hope not.
Obama should have come out and denounced the Palin effigy. So much for honor.
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The white chick is Palin.
Blacks are WAY too sensitive over hanging and lynching.
I won't dignify that with further response. Nor any of the other silly excuses you lot are offering.
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The white chick is Palin.
I won't dignify that with further response. Nor any of the other silly excuses you lot are offering.
No, you're just being silly :mad:
The Wyoming cattle barons hanged (lynched!) a woman (and her husband) for cattle rustling. Her real "crime" was homesteading a piece of land with good water. :rolleyes:
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I won't dignify that with further response. Nor any of the other silly excuses you lot are offering.
Why?
Lots of people were hanged over the years, lots of people were enslaved over the years. Playing it as a card is annoying as hell.
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Lots of people were hanged over the years, lots of people were enslaved over the years. Playing it as a card is annoying as hell.
Not only is it annoying, but it indicates an ignorance of history. Black people seem to act like blacks are the only people to ever have been lynched or hanged. It's stupid.
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Let's pretend that Black Americans are not a minority that has struggled to survive through centuries of slavery and oppression, of which nooses have emerged as a prominent symbol. Oh, wait! You people already are.
But all this detracts from my great zinger about dissent being the highest form of patriotism. :laugh:
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Let's pretend that Black Americans are not a minority that has struggled to survive through centuries of slavery and oppression, of which nooses have emerged as a prominent symbol. Oh, wait! You people already are.
Whatever you say, Jesse :rolleyes:
:P
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Let's pretend that Black Americans are not a minority that has struggled to survive through centuries of slavery and oppression, of which nooses have emerged as a prominent symbol. Oh, wait! You people already are.
Let's pretend pretty much any and every ethnic group on the planet didn't do the same at one point or another. Hell the Jews were going through it thousands of years before and for a hell of a lot longer. The Greeks were conquored, persecuted, enslaved. If you're from Europe or thereabouts odds are your ancestors or at least their people were enslaved at some point by somebody. Same thing for religions; even Christians spent a few hundred years getting persecuted, enslaved, and murdered.
Their ancestors sold Romans the freakin lions that ate my enslaved ancestors m'kay?
When I meet someone who was actually a slave, they have a right to bitch and moan about having been enslaved. If someone back in your families history was a slave, someone you probably never even met, shut up and get over it like the rest of us have had to.
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Obama should have come out and denounced the Palin effigy. So much for honor.
Why? Is it his responsibility to apologize for things that other people do? Did John McCain denounce it?
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It's about time somebody did this. I wouldn't be the one, but if we're to be "equal" then both displays need to be considered "art"(which is a VERY flimsy, false defense) or both need to be prosecuted as hate crime.
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About 20 years ago, there was a big deal made over one of the frats having a lawn jockey...
Yawn.
IMHO, the jews are the best at the collective persecution complex... But they've got a LOT more experience at it...
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Obama should have denounced it because the brother from another planet is post-racial and on a mission to show us the path beyond such ugliness.
If he is sensitive to what's been visited on blacks he should be equally sensitive to prejudice and crudeness directed at other groups--or are you telling me his unction is, well, selective? I find his silence telling.
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The proper comparison would be to find examples of blatant sexism towards Palin, such as that which was used to insult her professional capabilities.
Arguing that a hanging Palin is the same thing as a hanging Obama is simply willful denial. Think about this for a second-say you build a model oven, and put an Obama doll in it....odd, and maybe people will think you are making a joke about how hot the action is getting for Obama.
Change the doll to a figure with a beard and orthodox clothing, and it's an entirely different symbol. And rightly so, folks would be outraged about it in a way that they wouldn't be over the Obama in an oven.
Being against reverse racism, affirmative action, etc does not mean you have to deny the obvious.
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Maybe the "blatant sexism" aimed at Palin is the left's denial of her womanhood because she doesn't fit the feminist mold?
Interesting that you would mention Denying The Obvious when THAT is exactly what the entire Obama campaign has been built on. I don't mean his race, I mean his political identity. Who is kidding whom?
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OK. Fine. Every race of people has been hanged, enslaved, mistreated, and so forth. Duh.
But this is the U.S., in the twenty-first century. Some bits of history are more relevant, and more recent, to our situation.
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The proper comparison would be to find examples of blatant sexism towards Palin, such as that which was used to insult her professional capabilities.
Arguing that a hanging Palin is the same thing as a hanging Obama is simply willful denial. Think about this for a second-say you build a model oven, and put an Obama doll in it....odd, and maybe people will think you are making a joke about how hot the action is getting for Obama.
Change the doll to a figure with a beard and orthodox clothing, and it's an entirely different symbol. And rightly so, folks would be outraged about it in a way that they wouldn't be over the Obama in an oven.
Being against reverse racism, affirmative action, etc does not mean you have to deny the obvious.
Utter crap that only makes sense if you buy into the "hate crime" line of thought. Hanged in effigy means the same thing no matter who is the subject. It's just a cutsey, deniable as free speech, way of saying if we were in charge and thought we could get away with it we'd hang her/him too. So the suggestion of a dead woman hanging is less offensive than that of a dead black man? As has been amply pointed out, everyone has had a go at both sides of persecution throughout history, it really isn't all whitey's fault. I'm sure those women short drop hanged in Iran for accusations of adultery would find the humor in a Palin effigy.
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fistful and SS making the same point, arguing against the tide. End times.
'course they're both right, and Shootin's example should be as clear as day. Yes, the Nazis exterminated people other than Jews, and non-blacks were lynched - but both those events have rightly developed into powerful symbols of the oppression that was aimed at both groups, both also occurred in the 20th century.
If you wanted to draw a parallel with Palin and misogyny through witchcraft allegations then you'd need an effigy burned at the stake. I know they hung witches too, but symbolism and imagery are what they are in the public's imagination.
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. I know they hung witches too, but symbolism and imagery are what they are in the public's imagination.
That may be true, but you know full well that using the fact someone used a noose to hang an Obama effigy to somehow prove OMG OBAMA HATERS ARE RAECIST is not very smart. It's not even smart to assume the particular person is racist.
Yes, blacks have suffered a lot. However, this does not provide cover for every black politician to smack down his opposition with claims of racism.
Equally, the Jews have suffered throughout history - including slavery, discrimination, and eventually the holocaust. Yet the use of the holocaust and cries of 'Nazi' to shut down opposition to a politician would be vile and disgusting and I hope you agree.
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Micro - nothing that you said there is disagreeable, nor is it what I was driving at.
The guy who created and hung this effigy may be the least racist person alive - but his creation was suffused with powerful racist imagery, intentional or not.
No-one is using this to 'smack down' McCain. But, someone who supports McCain, or dislikes Obama, gave Obama a few free political points by using imagery so obvious that the Obama campaign need say nothing at all about it.
All I'm saying is that denying the imagery is silly. Making an effigy of Palin dressed as a witch and then hitting it with a hammer is not the same things burning the same effigy at stake. Even creating an Obama effigy and dragging it behind a truck is not the same thing as hanging it - despite the relatively recent case of a black man being murdered in this way by white racists.
Imagery is a powerful thing for human beings, and lynching a black effigy is going to bring up issues.
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Well said, Iain. Micro, you're right that this shouldn't be used as an example to play the race card on all Obama opposition.
However, for someone in America, particularly the American south, to hang a black skinned figurine in a noose...whether that person is racist or not, he or she without a doubt knows of the racist connotation involved. To deny that is like those white supremacist types who claim that a swastika is just a "hindu good luck symbol" or whatever other nutty theory they use to try and brush off condemnation.
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To deny that is like those white supremacist types who claim that a swastika is just a "hindu good luck symbol" or whatever other nutty theory they use to try and brush off condemnation.
You mean like the Finnish President?
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You mean like the Finnish President?
Sorry, should have qualified with a "those types here in America, where we have no other history with the symbol other than its association with Nazism"
Good point, there.
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OK. Fine. Every race of people has been hanged, enslaved, mistreated, and so forth. Duh.
But this is the U.S., in the twenty-first century. Some bits of history are more relevant, and more recent, to our situation.
So we should cater to the ignorance of the lowest common denominator?
Sure, let's just go on THAT path. Ever see Idiocracy? The "history" presentation in the end, where the UN UN-Nazi'ed Europe?
Sorry, I think you've been infected with White Guilt. Ought to see a librarian about curing that with a good dose of history.
(BTW, maybe someone should remind these two dorks that THEIR sort are hanged in Iran on an almost daily basis, and only the candidates they're disparaging would do anything about it! Obama sure would not!)
Sorry, should have qualified with a "those types here in America, where we have no other history with the symbol other than its association with Nazism"
Only those that had an inferior public school education.
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Sorry, should have qualified with a "those types here in America, where we have no other history with the symbol other than its association with Nazism"
(https://armedpolitesociety.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.greatwardifferent.com%2FGreat_War%2FAir_War%2FLafayette%2520-%2520Guerre%2520Aerienne%2520-%2520Lafayette%2520Escarille%2520001.jpg&hash=1bf35b2e5fbd9486216ce7b2fd7c20baee3bd534)
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OK. Fine. Every race of people has been hanged, enslaved, mistreated, and so forth. Duh.
But this is the U.S., in the twenty-first century. Some bits of history are more relevant, and more recent, to our situation.
So we should cater to the ignorance of the lowest common denominator?
I never suggested any such thing. For someone with such a strong interest in graphic design, you're being awfully obtuse about the matter of imagery.
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Only those that had an inferior public school education.
Odd-I had a six figure private education and I never learned that I shouldn't expect people to read "Nazi" were I to paint a swastika on my front porch. Nor did I learn that such a reaction would be unreasonable.
Where is it that they're teaching about the non-offensive uses of the swastika, or that nooses around black skinned figurines have nothing to do with racism?
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Odd-I had a six figure private education and I never learned that I shouldn't expect people to read "Nazi" were I to paint a swastika on my front porch. Nor did I learn that such a reaction would be unreasonable.
Where is it that they're teaching about the non-offensive uses of the swastika, or that nooses around black skinned figurines have nothing to do with racism?
Demonstrates that actual value of a high priced education. Pity that such often does not teach the student how to educate themselves (http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm) on controversial matters.
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I may not hang the likeness of B(utt)HO(le) from my tree, but I may plant a "tombstone" in my front yard with his name on it for Halloween.
Anyone have anything better than the insciption: Barrack Obama "He died a political death"?
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Demonstrates that actual value of a high priced education. Pity that such often does not teach the student how to educate themselves (http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm) on controversial matters.
It's hard to imagine that you're seriously arguing the point that a swastika in America can't reasonably be assumed to coincide with Nazi ideology. Posting about ancient India and Finland is all well and good, but this is America....and the noose with Obama was in Kentucky, not a buddhist temple in Cambodia, or some other exotic place where a rope around the neck has some magical significance.
I'm just imagining how you'd all react to a guy with a shaved head, cobwebs on his temples, and swastikas all over his arms walking into your places of business and politely explaining that he shaves his head because monks of many religions shave their heads, and that he has swastikas on his arms because those bald hindu monks believed it was good luck.
And the combat boots and camo pants? That's because peace protesters wear that kind of gear-he was just getting ready to attend a rally for civil rights, where they hang dark skinned dolls by the neck on tall poles to show that they elevate different races above the hordes of white people with monks' haircuts and good luck tattoos. Oh, and the burning cross? That just shows they're on fire for God! No racism to see there!
I'm sure you'd all take this character at his word and seriously consider his hindu/buddhist/religious motivations before branding him a nazi, right?
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Odd-I had a six figure private education and I never learned that I shouldn't expect people to read "Nazi" were I to paint a swastika on my front porch. Nor did I learn that such a reaction would be unreasonable.
Where is it that they're teaching about the non-offensive uses of the swastika, or that nooses around black skinned figurines have nothing to do with racism?
The swastika is a symbol that is approximately 3000 years old that had nothing to do with hatred. It is still commonly used and seen in the orient by a multitude of people. For a full description, see the following:
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm
And figurines of any skin color that are placed in the inappropriate context, would be offensive to anyone.
So much for my public school education and your 6 figure education.
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It's hard to imagine that you're seriously arguing the point that a swastika in America can't reasonably be assumed to coincide with Nazi ideology. Posting about ancient India and Finland is all well and good, but this is America....and the noose with Obama was in Kentucky, not a buddhist temple in Cambodia, or some other exotic place where a rope around the neck has some magical significance.
I'm just imagining how you'd all react to a guy with a shaved head, cobwebs on his temples, and swastikas all over his arms walking into your places of business and politely explaining that he shaves his head because monks of many religions shave their heads, and that he has swastikas on his arms because those bald hindu monks believed it was good luck.
And the combat boots and camo pants? That's because peace protesters wear that kind of gear-he was just getting ready to attend a rally for civil rights, where they hang dark skinned dolls by the neck on tall poles to show that they elevate different races above the hordes of white people with monks' haircuts and good luck tattoos. Oh, and the burning cross? That just shows they're on fire for God! No racism to see there!
I'm sure you'd all take this character at his word and seriously consider his hindu/buddhist/religious motivations before branding him a nazi, right?
Why not? You'd excuse someone with a kaffiyeh, an Arafat t-shirt, and a black banner of jihad on their jacket as just a poor misunderstood everyday peaceful Muslim. :P
I'm sorry, you've long ago busted any credibility on whom to condemn.
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The swastika is a symbol that is approximately 3000 years old that had nothing to do with hatred. It is still commonly used and seen in the orient by a multitude of people. For a full description, see the following:
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm
And figurines of any skin color that are placed in the inappropriate context, would be offensive to anyone.
So much for my public school education and your 6 figure education.
Okay, so try this experiment: Using a black magic marker, put a swastika somewhere prominently on your clothing or on a visible part of your body, and then walk all over town with it. Try to hit every neighborhood in your city, and see if you can find a single one where people don't treat you like a Nazi.
Better yet: carry a little printout of your web search there. See how much that means to people who see your "ancient, venerable, good luck symbol."
The point about mentioning education here is to highlight that it's common sense-you don't need to go to Harvard to understand that swastikas and nooses have an offensive racist connotation in America.
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Why not? You'd excuse someone with a kaffiyeh, an Arafat t-shirt, and a black banner of jihad on their jacket as just a poor misunderstood everyday peaceful Muslim. :P
I'm sorry, you've long ago busted any credibility on whom to condemn.
Nice attempt at changing the subject, but it only highlights how much more obviously without ground your position is here.
Experiment for you also: try to design some commercial art with a swastika and a black body hanging from a noose, and show it off to your clients with a little primer about the venerable history of swastikas and how nooses don't have anything to do with racism.
There's no need to take my word for it when the real world is right there in front of your face.
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thats gonna leave a mark
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...how nooses don't have anything to do with racism.
What a moment, HERE is a black figure, hanging from a tree by a noose. The figure also happens to be pierced by a spear (his own even)...
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Nevermind that the figure depicted did this to himself in the pursuit of knowledge and wisdom (which he did obtain), it MUST be racist tripe!!!
Nooses are an execution device, and I'm sure you can bring mind another execution device that does not have ill meaning to the millions of people who venerate it and/or wear one around their necks every day. It got that way as a result of people choosing to accept one meaning over another. The device itself has no power.
Better yet: carry a little printout of your web search there. See how much that means to people who see your "ancient, venerable, good luck symbol."
Yes, by all means we MUST bow to the whims of the ignorant and let truth be damned!
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Enough.